Wow,you guys got no patience at all.Pato has been in Milan for years,and he appears committed to it,and to it's project.Yet,you are willing to sell him when we have the chance.When you criticized Milan's managment for selling Kaka.I know Pato is far away from Kaka's leauge yet,but at which age did Kaka peak for us?

Are you serious?



Kaka's impact in his first year at Milan was greater than anything Pato has done in these four years. He was 22 back then.

Funny how I hadn't heard a peep out of anyone after the last 2 games, in which he scored might I add.

People are so fickle it's ridiculous. And saying we should asses after the season is over is even more ridiculous. Like we have any say on the matter. Pato will stay on at Milan, I am sure, no matter how he does this season, and I'm sure that when he does something amazing like he's done in the past on the big stage, all will be forgotten as usual.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that Pato has not regressed. But has been forced to change the way he plays. From that kid in his first season who was a good speedy dribbler with questionable finishing to a finisher who makes fast runs. He's adapted his game in many different manners due to the changes in coaches and playing system. You cannot compare him to Kaka, who came into a very stable winning environment and kept the same coach and system (for the most part) during his entire evolving process

Well,honestly I don't know anything about Kaka's first year,but I got carried on with the analogy ;p

And,about patience,yes I'am.And I'm talking patience for him to perform...He is the best finisher on our team,and he needs supply to suceed.If he isn't touching the ball,that's not his problem imo.Our system is depending on our strikers to drop deep and get the ball to the opponent's half(What Ibra does every match),and having a destructive midfield...

Agreed, this is why Allegri's system is BS imo. Unless the strikers are creating then we won't be scoring. This is why we need a proper AM, to supply the strikers. And the fact that Galliani is doing everything he can to get Tevez instead of looking to purchase a top AM is just astonishing to me

Really? I think we've all been constantly expressing our opinion on Pato over the course of the last two years, of how Pato hasn't yet exploded and how longer should our patience hold. The game against Bologna means nothing to me. Pato should have been a world class striker by now, alongside the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney etc. Yet he's been only regressing, season after season. It's quite clear to everyone.



LOL, Pato, big stage? The guy has scored 4 measly goals in 17 CL appearances. Pato flops big time in the important games, I thought we were all aware of that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but both Rooney and Ronaldo took their sweet @ss time to get to where they are as well. Ronaldo had gone without scoring in the CL for how many seasons before he got his first? Rooney as well scored a hat-trick in his frist CL game then couldn't get a goal to save his life for quite a while. They were the same age as Pato, who is 21 not 25. These things take time, not everyone is Messi FFS.

Not a big game player? Who scored in our biggest Serie A matches last season? And was the most influential player at that. Pato

Real Madrid, Barca. 2 huge games where he scored huge goals. Saying he's a choker is ridiculous as he's our only striker who we can rely on to not go missing on the big stage.

And yes we've all talked constantly about Pato. But it usually happens when he's injured. Which is frustrating, yes, I'm not saying it's not. But he's always come through for us with a great goal average, even when he's out for half a season with injuries. To give up on someone like him simply because he hasn't progressed as fast as we would have liked is just plain laughable. What so we can give him to a team like Madrid and see him doing great things with them? While we're stuck with a nut job like Balotelli? No thanks

First of all, Pato became 22 three months ago. Let's not rejuvenate him for the sake of the argument. Secondly, yes, he is a big time choker! What huge games are you talking about? The Madrid and Barça "friendlies"? The derby against the mediocre Inter of last season? Or maybe the match against a Napoli that had zero shots on goal. Hardly achievements to write home about. No, the crucial games I'm talking about were against Arsenal, United and Tottenham, where our European fate depended on, and which Pato miserably failed each and every one of them. The moment we needed him the most, he simply went on and disappeared.

I wouldn't bash Pato that much and label him a choker. Yeah, Kaka was better and made much more impact at 22, yet, where is he now (I know, it's not his fault)?

I still believe in the duck.

Failing in the CL. Not good enough for Gila. Not good enough to Pato. Ship him out.

I still believe in him too, but my patience is starting to reach its limit. If what we should expect from Pato are injuries and blackouts, accompanied by a few good/great performances/goals now and then, then I'd rather sell him and cash in. I've always said it, the guy's main problem is inconsistency. Someone must tell him that play time is over, and that it's time to step in and become the new star of this club.

Last year,against Napoli I truley believed that Pato's gonna step up.But then injuries came again,I believe.I would like to start Pato vs Higuian debtate again.Look at the argentinian,he only suceeds when their is good supply for him,and I believe Pato is a very similar player,maybe with a bit more pace.Only way we see Pato develop is a season without any injuries as sad before.So the question is:We'ce been waiting several seasons for our star player to come through,and at 22,you'd expect his muscle issues to be reduced,so why not wait for him one more season?The big clubs are gonna spill on him money anyway.You may call me a Pato fan boy,but i'm a new generarion milan fan,and what Kaka,sheva... meant to you is similar to what I feel about Pato.

The length of time he was here means nothing to me. Suppose he came to Milan as a superhyped 14 year old. Would we want to toss him at 19 because he "hasn't reached his potential" etc etc?? No the FACT is that his age is 22.

Yes I'd have liked for him to be on the level of a 22 year old CR7/Messi but the FACT is that bad games or not there are few players in his age group and even few forwards overall with his ability....so why the fuss?

Geez..yeah..more or less what the man above ^^ said. Exactly how many 22 year old prodigies are available right now?

Basically the argument seems to be, "Oh..look..Pato is not as awesome as Messi or CR7..so let's sell him!"

Am I the only person who finds this weird?

Fine. How long do we wait for him to make real progress? Til he's 24, 26, 28? At what point does his selling value become greater than his potential skill?

Define real progress. Last season he made 25 appearances for score 14 goals with 4 assists. That was his fourth season with the club.

In comparison Kaka in his 4th season in the league had 8 goals and 8 assists. Of course Kaka was much more immense in the CL.

All I'm saying is that saying you have to sell someone coz he is not as good as World Player of the Year means you're being petty.In that case, there are a lot of other players in Milan you can be selling.

What do you mean potential skill? How does one decide what a player's 'potential' is? What makes us so educated to brand it?

So far this season , Pato has made 6 appearances! That's all. In 3 CL games he has 2 goals.

And as for injury...yes that is the only thing I can recommend to sell him. If he is injury prone, then it is a problem. But really, is that his fault? Or the club's? We f@ck his health up..and now let's sell him?


He is not attacking the box enough vs. He is not dropping deep to collect the ball aka no hustle
He cannot pass vs He is not dribbling

Basically, as far as I can see it is that Pato's only fault is he is not Messi, CR or Rooney-esque.

Generally speaking, strikers reach their peak from 26-30. I believe our management has proven its credibility by cutting off over-rated players ala Gilardino and Gourcuff, in recent times.

However, unlike recent times, we have the luxury of having a star studded front line. Hence our dependency on Pato is reduced. As such, I believe we can wait for the kid to deliver.

As for the opportunity cost of keeping him ... If we receive an offer, as we did for Sheva or Kaka, I believe he will be sold - This, regardless of how beneficial it is to have a player like him on our team.

That doesn't mean anything. It's what the games represented and meant to the team that made them so big and yes, he did step up big time. No matter how you try to twist it.

Arsenal? (he was a baby), United? (where was the rest of the team? Stop trying to expect pato to make sh!t happen on his own, he's not that kind of player), Spurs? (Didn't start the first game when we really messed it up and chances fell to the mishap that is Robinho in the 2nd leg, had any of them fell to Pato he would have scored them 9 out of 10 times).

Where were the more experianced players during those game? No where to be found. Expecting a player like Pato to do a Kaka and score a solo goal starting from his own half is ridiculous. Simply because he's not Kaka and not that type of player either.


Agreed. and I believe the management sill do as well. So this is a fruitless discussion as I believe he'll be a Milan player for a long time to come. No matter how much people seem to want a nut case over him

And he doesn't play there either. Kaka was an AM. Attacking forward yes, but still an AM. Pato is a striker, a finisher, a poacher, or whatever you want to call it. If Kaka did not score a goal, no fudge was given, because it's his duty to create chances. And score if he gets one himself. Pato is not that, he's a pure finisher.

Sure, different coaches have different systems, and everyone would be happy if Pato went back every time and got the ball himself from the midfield dogs (of opposing teams), and make a run, beat everyone and their grandmothers, and slot the round object back in the net. He may do it once in a while, but if we expect him to do this continually, and crucify him for not doing so every time our team is in the gutter, then the rest of the AM/DM and forwards have earned a death sentence as far as I am concerned. Line them up against the wall, and pull the trigger, because they are doing diddlysquat.

For all intents and purposes, Pato gets the ball 3-4 times in a match (by this I mean good solid chances), when in reality he should be getting it a dozen or more times from our midfield. But who am I kidding, we don't even have the attacking part of the midfield (we did when Cassano was here). Give me a proper AM, or make Ibra play there, we need someone who can receive the ball from the midfield and pass it to our strikers.

Having said that, this doesn't absolve Pato of other duties: Tracking back when he can, helping the defense, pressure the opposing teams backline, making good decisions when passing to teammates. And well staying injury free, if he can. At the end of the day it comes down to our intentions: whether we need a quick 50 million by selling him, or go for the jackpot and win a CL with the guy in our team, marshaling our attack in a few years.

You're an intelligent person, Kurt, but sometimes I just don't get some of the things you say.

He was being facetious. Feel free to flame him though. He's a jerk!

Gila's scoring record in his first few seasons was fine.. in the league, but he was criticised and people wanted him gone because he couldn't get it done in the CL. It seems for some reason, Pato is given a free pass by most, despite having the same problem.

Well, Pato is younger and his talent is not comparable to Gila's. I think he's given a free pass is because we all expect him to turn into the next great thing, which he's failed to do so far.

Kurt, I don't get your position. It seems to me you build you opinion based on the masses direction. When "everyone" criticized Gilardino you were the one who defended him. When now "everyone" defends Pato, you criticize him. It's like you form your opinion to be uniquely, against the stream, and not on logical basis.

No, I was playing devils advocate in this case. As you know, the CL means less to me than the league. So to me, someones performance in a CL isn't that much of an issue. The reason I picked up on this is because everyone criticised Gila, yet now seems to give Pato a pass.

I also hate this whole 'cool to hate' thing we often have on here. People just make things up to fit their arguement. Gila scored 17 in the league in his first season at a big club. Then the myth that his goals were 'not important' came about and all that rubbish.

Difference is that Gila was someone you could count on to play. Pato, not so much.

I don't get this logic really. Is this written somewhere? Does Pato have to be completely developed into the final product by the age of 21? If not than he should be shipped out?

Just plain ridiculous imo. He's had circumstances to deal with that have stunted his development. Of course he'll take more time to achieve what he possibly can in the future. It's not like he's pushing his late 20s and approaching the twilight of his career. He's 22 FFS!!! We're talking as if he's 27!!

Injury prone players are injury prone. Sooner people learn that, the better.

As Blue mentioned somewhere, Brazilian players are usually done by the age of 28. Ronaldo, Kaká, Ronaldinho, Adriano, Robinho etc. were already top players when they were 22. Pato's development has been stagnating for some time now. He used to be a much better player when he was 19 than nowadays. And yes, his injuries are one of the main reasons for that.

And another is the stupid blend of coaches, each with his own unique system. Most top players now-a-days, when they are developing, usually stay in a stable environment with a single coach (Kaka, Cristiano, and Messi, etc). Pato's had to battle not only injuries but starting positions too, in his time here.

Where you play depends a lot on how you develop. Play too isolated upfront, and you turn into Inzaghi. Play on the tougher positions on the wings, and you my turn a bit like CRON, so on and so forth.

Who says that that has to be the same case for everyone?? Just because he's from a certain nationality than he has to conform by those rules??

All those players you mentioned burnt out so fast because they were pushed so far when they were young, and some of them brought it on themselves due to their unhealthy lifestyle and it has nothing to do with football

@ acid, that is also another great point. Pato has had to change his playing style 3 times, while he was developing and dealing with terrible injuries. Carlo gave him a free role, Leo gave him a rigid winger role and now under Allegri he's a simple finisher. Trying to blame this on him because he does what his coaches need him to is beyond reason

Are you serious? You seriously think Brazilian players are "usually" done by 28?? This is plainly ridiculous!! I won't even bother listing up names that would prove you wrong...but this one made me laugh loudly. Their genetic clock is different, right?

As for changing coaches, yes - it is a viable point. Still, if you are class you'll adapt, no matter how many coaches are lined-up.

Yup, more than the different personals (coaches) he's had to adapt to playing styles (systems). Huntelaar was playing on the right wing, for Pete's sake. Sometimes we were focusing on a closed, defending game, other times it was all out attack. Bigger, more established players often have it hard to adapt, let alone a young guy like Pato.

If you are doing three different roles at once in a film, chances are one is going to be better than the others, another one may be so-so. Not many actors can do that and say the excelled at both. Throw in the constant injuries, and you've got yourself the Curious Case of the Duck at your hand.

The talent and goals are not at doubt - the application and attention are. I'll give him another 3 years to find out.


He's done what he can, IMHO. Still more effort is needed, yes, but hopefully that's incoming. He is class, no doubt about it, it's just the fact how much (seeing as he hasn't faltered, yet). The next few seasons of course are going to be vital. If the graph of performance can go up as long as the injury chart heads down, we should see improvement.

Here at Milan and the Pato we see at Brazil too. Anyone that says he/she expects more out of the duck has a totally valid point. I do too. Hopefully the player feels the same and gets a chance to show it. This year and the next.

It was just a generic example. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone, but it might be the case for Pato as well, especially when you consider his current attitude, at such a young age.

I don't like Pato's attitude. Sure, his injuries are no help, but I think mentally Pato doesn't have it in him to reach his potential. At young age he was already that good; he was already in Brazil. Since he moved to Milan he didn't get any better, more likely only worse. I expect him to become someone who could have been great, but never became that big. His workrate is so low, and maybe he's too scared for injuries also, which too won't help him to become better. I believe he is working too little, and having too much fun instead.

+1

Especially the last sentence.

He worked overtime last year,and now we're accusing him of having fun...

I think we should just drop it. What's the point of dicussing this? So now Pato is too lazy? His injuries are hs own doing? Just ridiculous. And no matter what happens this season, I'm sure he'll be a Milan player come next season.

It's just as ridiculous to act like he doesn't have an attitude problem and saying he isn't lazy, in my opinion.

Who's saying that he definately does not have one? Imo it's rare to find top players these days who actually don't have an attitude problem...

I don't think he's lazy, he usually tries hard, but fades out when things aren't going his way, that's not lazy. But mentality. I see the same thing with Aquilani for example and Robinho as well. It's just the way some players are, but that's the only problem he has with "attitude" It's not like he goes arounf throwing fits ala Balo/Ibra/etc when things aren't going his way.

But he's certainly not lazy, and as I said above his attitude issue is that he tends to drift out of a game if things are not going well for him. He was after all one of the few players who went in to traning when they were given days off to rest and he's always working hard to regain fitness when he's injured. Saying he's lazy is BS imo

Having fun? Where's the proof for this accusation? Do you see him doing the Adriano or Dinho routine?

Him and Barbera have been everywhere, lately.

Gosh .


Pato looked good today,when he had supply,and looked non existant when we didn't have the ball which is perfectly normal!

As long as he keeps her happy

Nonsense. Nothing irregular with that. I disapprove their relationship, yet...still nothing drastic happened.

Ignorant is a bliss.

Seems to me the only times when some of these fellows actually follow this thread and write something about Pato is when he's going through a bad patch, so they can can come here and write their nonsense about him.

for example, I remember posting a couple of times articles about him working overtime and showing quite a good attitude, saying he's working harder than ever to overcome his injuries, etc etc. hardly anyone said anything about that! obviously because there was there was nothing to bash him about - neither his work-rate nor attitude or anything else. just roll back the pages and see for yourself. I don't want to sound bitter but that's how it is. it's disappointing to read things like he's "overrated and useless, needs to f*ck off" and "he's chocked in every big game". ain't that just low?

People forget so easy.

I think its the fact that we have an abundance of forwards, who each respectively could easily be a first team regular at any top club. Hence he is being criticized for not providing the goals/assists.

I agree it is harsh and premature to cut the kid off at such a tender age. You remember Madrid two years ago? The kid is explosive, just that he needs to find consistency and the injuries are slowing him down. Nothing to do with his attitude or lack of motivation, which is being spammed in this thread lately.

I strongly believe he will come out on top and prove these critics wrong ... a touch of luck should do the trick to spark his form all over again

It's true that we have a lot of decent forwards, but how many of them could be part of the long-term future of this club? Inzaghi? Ibra? Cassano? I don't need to comment on any of them as to why I think they're not the future of this club. not even Robinho can I see staying for long without making us want to die with his 3 yard misses and ups and downs. at least Pato can blame injuries for interrupting his form...

And strangely, Pato is the one some here seem to want to get rid of first and foremost. I understand every Milan fan is getting fed up with him constantly being on the treatment table, but wouldn't it be worth it if we waited a bit more? we're not in an urgent need for strikers, and Pato's not on a massive contract anyway. and I refuse to believe that potential buying clubs are blind to see he's got injury issues. they won't pay for him as much as they would have two yeas ago, people need to realize this and stop with the "cash in on him before he loses his market value" already. he's already lost much of his market value and won't have it back before he starts to play regularly and shines for us again.

As Jack mentioned before, the club (its medical team) are responsible for his condition. when he goes two years without any particular problem, then gets big and suddenly becomes injury prone, you can't fault anyone other than those taking care of his body. now imagine we sold him now because he's injury prone, how would it reflect on the club's ethics? not really good. that's why I personally believe the club will stick with the Duck for now...

Agreed on most of your points.

And your point is? Every injured player will work super hard to recover as quickly as possible. The fact Pato is doing it too doesn't mean he's extra-dedicated or something like that.

Pato has an attitude problem. It's plain as day. Even Cassano had a higher working rate before he got ill. I am a Pato fanboy, just like you. But I'm starting to grow tired of his constant injuries, his slack attitude and his overall regression as a football player.

Agreed


Agreed


Agreed

His point is x-off, that people wait for their moments to strike on Pato. when he's doing great things you don't hear a peep and when he gets injured all hell breaks loose, as if it's something he brought on himself. Also, you're blaming the fact that he gets lost in games where he doesn't have any service on an attitude proble. It is one to an extent, but you also have to take into consideration the reasons as to why he's not being supplied properly. Allegri has him playing as a pure striker, how do you expect him to do anything when he's not being supported properly? You might say he needs to work harder, drop deeper, etc, etc. But if Allegri has him playing as a striker, then you'd expect him to be given the ball in and around the box. The Bologna game was a perfect example of this. Either give him free reign, or don't complain.

The game against Napoli last season is also another example, Pato was literally everywhere, but I'm sure that was something that was planned, if he was perpetually lazy as you are trying to imply then he would have never had those types of games. Did you ever see Dinho running his @ss off chasing the ball everywhere? Going to training when he was allowed the day off? That is someone who is lazy, not Pato