I don't believe for one bit the "Allegri plays him as pure striker" argument. Allegri never plays with pure strikers. Whether it's Pato, Robinho or Cassano, they're allowed to roam free on the attacking front alongside Ibra. You saw Pato do an Inzaghi against Bologna? I saw him do the game he always does. And even if I accepted your argument, I still wouldn't agree. If there's no supply, then procure it yourself. You're Pato, not Inzaghi. It's not like Allegri is telling you to stand like a cactus inside the area.

And we only complain about Pato when he gets injured or plays bad because whatever good he does, it's only considered normal and expected. When was the last time Pato did something extraordinary like Boateng against Lecce? When was the last time he was on a superb form like Nocerino? When was the last time he took the team by the hand like Ibra's been doing? That's when people get overexcited about some player and start to praise him.

Robinho and Cassano are very different, as usually when they play, Ibra plays a more advanced role, while it's the opposite with Pato. It's usually Ibra who drops deep while Pato stays in advanced areas. Does "pure striker" mean Pippo Inzaghi to you? To me that's a poacher. Pato is not that but he's certainly not expected to roam like Cassano or Robinho do. He definately plays a striker's role, whether you wish to see that or not.

As for going to "procure" it himself. When he is given that freedome he does it. But when he's expected to play a certain way than he cannot drop into midfield himself, especially if Ibra is doing it as well and that area is congested (like it usually is in games against the Bologna's of the league)

He hasn't done that this season, and maybe he never scored 3 goals to get us back from 3 goals down. But he has scored important, point wining goals for us. Which in the end were crucial to winning the league

He's a striker. Of course he's supposed to score goals. If he didn't do even that, then what else is left for him?

Anyway, the way I see it is that Pato has to get more involved in the game, regardless of where Allegri plays him. Inzaghi, as you said, is a poacher, and he's 38. But I'm certain his work rate will always be high, even if he gets no supply. Pato needs to take things more seriously. He's not 18 anymore.

His goal to game ratio proves he has no issues there, so why are we talking as if he hasn't scored in a year? Would I have liked for him to score against Bologna? Of course. Was I frustrated? Yes, but certainly not because of Pato, just the general team attitude, not just because Pato didn't run endlessly like a headless chicken.

Who are you to know if he's taking it seriously or not. Maybe he's just afraid that if he steps too hard on the throttle he'll get another month's worth of recovery. Mabe that's what's holding him back, not the misconception that he's lazy. It's no surprise that he usually starts playing great only after a few weeks have passed since he comes back from injuries. It's obvious that he holds back a lot, and I don't blame him, because once he starts to let loose and play more freely he usually gets struck down by injury. It's the same pattern every time for him. So I don't blame him for being overly cautious.

So, if he's cautious, he plays like crap. When he finally plays freely, he gets injured. What a lose-lose situation.

Why not play him where Inzaghi plays, as a poacher? With Ibra/Tevez/Robinho behind him, you can score goals at will. Sure, that will limit his development as a player, but hey we'll score 4-5 goals every match, guaranteed. Just give him the ball in the box, and use his acceleration and eye for goal to your advantage.

Yes, well that situation can be blamed on our inept medical team.


That would be a good thing in an ideal world, but our problem is that we rely on all the creativity from our strikers, we have nothing coming from midfield. And in order for what you mentioned to work, there has to be more creativity and support from midfield. Relying on Ibra to do all the creative work will never work.

I think he should start doing the dirty work from the (attacking) midfield now. He's round about 30 years old now, never a better time to start creating goals. A lot of forwards at this age transform themselves just behind the strikers ala Ronaldo, Sheva, Totti and more. If he can, then Pato can play as the poacher.

Or maybe if we do get Tevez, he can play there, Ibra a little higher up, and then finally Pato in front of the goal.

Ibra has been playing more and more like a trequartista lately. Our whole game depends on his magic and the insertions of our midfielders. It's a nice plan, really. Doesn't really offer a point of reference to the opponent. In the old days, you simply had to block Pirlo and our game went AWOL. Now we aim for a more dynamic approach, and so far it's been working.

Tassotti: "Robinho is currently in a better shape than Pato, which is why we chose to let him start today."
"Pato has to improve his off-the-ball movements and the intensity of his performance."
"But you learn these things with age and Pato is still young."

After 5 years...

"Pato must learn how to [insert something here]. But you learn these things with time and he's still young."

Pato is having a horrible time here. He's clearly not happy and though he is FIRST to blame and MOSTLY to blame for his predicament (expect certain forumers to skirt around these statements and attack me for the rest of this post His problems are CLEARLY related to Allegri's bias and Ibrahimovic's unhealthy dominance.

Today ibra seemed to rather pass out than to signal that he wanted to come off. I expect the fanboyz to see this as determination/commitment and dedication. I see this as YET another instance of iBra becoming the attraction and Milan the sideshow.

Funny how Pato had no problem scoring and being dangerous alongside Robinho (the two infamous "Brazilians whom Ibra preferred Inzaghi to) but looks like he's a SerieZ player alongside iBra.

Pato's confidence is shot and he's carrying around too much pressure mentally. I really hoped he'd learn to rise above this situation and to be fair he should.....but also to be fair...when the whole universe is undeservedly sucking iBra's pee-pee it gets depressing.

I have no doubt $h!tlegri will continue to ru(i)n Milan like the inter of old : Our fortunes being an exact match of Ibrahimovic. Personally I think it's disconcerting and DISGUSTING


Hate away

I actually agree completely. Allegri's continuation of playing Ibra is leaving us in ruin. Champions last year, top of the league this year. What's he thinking!?

There's a reason why whoever Ibra plays for wins the league.

rrrrrriiiiiiigggggghhhhhhttttt

I'm guessing while there is a reason iBra has always won the league.....there's no reason why he's a serial CL flop?

Like I said it's incredible how myopic some fans are....always willing to sacrifice ANYHTING for the instant gratification.

I'd imagine some fans like the brilliant scholar above were pissed as heck when Fergie disassembled his 199 team and later sole Beckham for a acne laden "one trick serial diving pony" That player- who's potential was awlays there to be seen is now one of the best in the world. He's led them to CL and domestic success....what did it take? a couple of crap seasons some trophy less runs and some extremely frustrating games.

The same is true of Pato. He has the potential to be THE best. But since Ancelotti's departure every other coach has been (understandably) obsessed with the quickest route to silverware and less on the developing of our youth.

It will be an EXTREME tragedy if the Gourcuff experience is repeated on a grander scale with Pato.

Yeah, you weren't on the board a few years back, Kurt and I were practically the only ones defending him from a barrage of 'one-trick pony' jibes from pretty much every other member.

Its true that with Ibra', pato is more restricted and i agree with drucurl's points. Do you think signing tevez and placing him behind Pato, could benefit Pato ?

I think it's all well and good complaining about Pato and saying we're not letting him improve but at the same time Zlatan and co are getting it done for us.

Signing Tevez, is the metaphorical kick out of the door for Pato.

Really, I was thinking robinho tbh.

Come on peeps, you know very well that drucurl is a hyper Pato fanboy and he hates Ibra to death. He's the most biased person in this argument. His posts make absolutely no sense to me. In other words, he's saying we should sacrifice Ibra to allow for Pato's development. Talk about insane.

Let's just let the nature to do it's work. The one who scores, survives. I don't get all this conspiracy about Ibrahimovic. He's our best striker and has scored 17 goals in 19 matches in all competitions this season. Without him we'd be dealing with the middtable. Pato has potential to become as good as Ibra, but he must work his @ss off so he can play together with whoever is necessary. And his determination and workrate are awful.

Don't get how Ibra has come into this.

Imo he's the only constant in the team and imo, all 3 of our strikers can work alongside him but not together.

We've tried the all Brazilian combo, Cassano and Pato, Cassano and Robinho. They don't really work properly. Pato and Ibra have combined well together before, and they showed that yesterday as well, Ibra should have just thumped that instead of trying to give the ball to Pato again on that chance they created on the counter. It's obvious he's trying to help him out so the problem is obviously not there.

If Tevez came that that would be most likely the end of Robinho's run. They're not going to give up on Pato any time soon imo. He's clearly a very highly regarded player in the team and to Berlu as well and in the end that is what matters.

He's going through his usual bad spell after a long injury lay off. He'll start scoring soon enough like he always does

I must applaud your efforts to enlist assistance rather than counter my opinion. But until such occurs you might want to stick to defacing Milan staff photos as the epitome of your intellectual expression

I also understand how you can view my opinion as insane since your command of the obvious is fairly nebulous as are other shortsighted simpletons but let me break it down in point form:

1. Pato is 22 and though he is FAR from complete at the moment he has shown that he has all the tools to be
2. Ibrahimovic is 30 and at the very top of his game. The only place to go is down now
3. IF Allegri would rather let a huffing and puffing vomiting Ibra finish out the match instead of subbing on someone else when the match is almost already decided in our favour then I'm sorry but that is BIAS
4. I never once said ANYTHING about sacrificing Ibra. My issue is with our OVER-RELIANCE on a striker who is both getting old and a KNOWN gloryhunting mercenary. He deserves to be our main man and he's the only one capable atm. However he comes with his known flaws and baggage and unless he understands that he's as component rather than the entity, Milan's fortunes will continue to depend on him.
5. In order to fix the above issue Allegri must devise another system other than his breakthrough "pass to iBra and keep it tight at the back". I believe he's incapable of such and too much in awe of Ibrahimovic to try. Thus Inzaghi, SES92 and Pato will have to adapt themselves to this revolutionary tactic. Many losses will be incurred. If we don't win anything this year was it worth it?
6. Even at this current state, Pato's stats suggest he's already nearing the elite players....so let's say he NEVER reaches Ibra's level? Does that make him worthless? Does it not make more sense to build the team to his abilities and lose a 30 year old MOODY INCONSISTENT Ibra and get more/improved support for Pato?? Oh noes dru that's long term planning...we does not dooos that

Wait...what the heck am I talking about? succession planning? This is Serie A - the league where a team will play a burnt out Del Piero till he's in a wheelchair instead of giving Giovinco a fair shake

However with all I've said, perhaps d'Arc.LP is right. We should let the law of the jungle decide whether Pato has what it takes to be our main man. My only complaint is that the odds are too heavily stacked in Ibra's favour right now.

Serious question... being as how you hate our top player and our coach (and i'm overlookng the occasional racial slur and homophobic hate-speak), you must answer me one simple question. Why AC Milan? If the sight of Allegri* dominating the league last year with an amazing defensive record without a midfield and a completely different squad from beginning to end of the season is so appalling, why not, if anything just give him the benefit of the doubt for this year. Or at least challenge him on his actual flaws instead of the finer points of him being a f****** piece of garbage (sorry, $H!TLEGRI...). I have heard lose on him for not yanking Ibra off while we were winning 2-0 and weren't playing another game for a whole week. You systematically undermine the stature of AC Milan and portray us, so far as i read it, as "Ibra's team". If not for the people working hardest towards the club's success, the respect towards the players/management, or the code of ethics and class, why support this team? The very fact that you can be able to criticize Ibra's automatic selection that is nothing but a tribute to his success with us. As D'Arc wrote, he has 17 goals in 19 games for us!!! He played a HUGE part in our Scudetto last year, scoring goals, linking playing, slowing the game down, making magic out of nothing...I mean he even has 2 goals up for the Pukas Award this year (Lecce & Fiorentina goals)! I mean, we all want Pato to succeed but at what cost? Surely, you're being disingenuous and know that benching Ibra to resurrect Pato's form is a false equivalency... Ibra, is arguably our most creative player. With the injury of Cassano, Robinho's unfounded instinct to always shoot, the poor form of Aquilani, the idiosyncratic style of Prince and the mentally over-encumbered Urby, how else can pato be set up to score if not for an Abate cross?

Myself being a pato fanboy, i would love to see him play above Robinho, who i believe should be sold next summer, but what has he done to be considered above his compatriot? Robinho gets the nod for what he does off the ball more then what he does on it. I am FAR from his greatest admirer (as last year's match threads would indicate ) but he plays complete football, he adjusts to situations more or less accordingly. While i hate to give him ANY credit, he is more tactically reliable then Pato. Pato seems to have rebranded himself as a poacher, leaving defending duties, tracking back, involving himself in the buildup to other players. By doing so he is waging a great amount in scoring justifying his selection. He has not been in scoring form this season (domestically), so i can understand his not being picked. I think he can be 5 times the player Robs ever was, but he will need to play the game. If Allegri,the only active Scudetto-winning coach in Serie A, is a stickler for hard workers in training, he needs to act accordingly and practice with conviction. We all know an in-form Pato can make short work of most teams, now lets get him to that point. I'm all for encouraging Pato through this, but we can all agree his biggest obstacle is himself both physically and mentally, not Allegri.

1. Agreed
2. ...or maintaining the form he's shown no signs of deserting
3. I didn't see the game but Ibra is 40% less likely to break his face sneezing then Pato... He has always played a high game count, and at 30, he is still is magnificent health.
4. Agreed, but i do think he's earned his title as top forward
5. i think it would be ill-timed to revolutionize the tactical setup as we just topped the league today...
6. Ibra has behaved very well with us, minus kicking the team's only american (who was instigating), he hasn't really shamed the club. In fact i think he has surpassed most of us in that regard. I don't think 17 goals in 19 goals is reason to call him inconsistent, unless you meant temperamentally inconsistent?

About the Juve anecdote, albeit illegal to start another teams player over your own, I do think they really owe him a winger slot and a huge apology. Looking at what they got now (Pepe, Estigarribia, an out of form Krasic and Giaccherini) it's a shame he hasn't been considered.

It would appear we can agree on some things AC Milan afterall

I dunno man never said I was perfect. I guess I simply prefer Ancelotti's vision and expression of the beautiful Milan of the '02-07 era than this blue collar workmanlike institution under Allegri. Please unserstand that I express myself only in the superlative and not because I say someone (let's say Allegri for argument's sake ) do I mean he's crap in the absolute sense, but it's usually a comparative adjective.

Under Ancelotti's vision it was perfectly normal for us to underperform VS Empoli, Modena Piacenza etc ....as long as we dealt with Real, Manure, Madrid and Barca. OUR FOCUS WAS IN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE. To me it's as if Galliani and Berlu approved of this approach as well.

I understand that Ibra is our best forward. He is . Hands down. However he represents to IMPROVEMENT while it's my belief (however silly I might sound for saying it) that Pato is. Granted there are too many variables for anyone to be dogmatic about this opinion. However, the same things that make Ibra a league winner also make him a serial choker in the Champions' League....where you don't get back another game the next weekend to prove yourself where it's do or die etc etc.

So my opinion is....instead of being satisfied at having someone to destroy the Bolognas and the Calgiaris....how about TRYING to ADD a new weapon to your arsenal that could potentially be used anywhere. The problem comes down to :
1)Pato's mentality. Seriously if he can't handle the competition he's not our guy
2)Ibra's ego. It's very imposing and powerful.
3)Allegri's ability to handle and improve 1&2.
4)Management's vision for the team
5)Pato's dealing with his own physique


sadly out of the five non-exhaustive parameters above only 3 and 4 can be directly controlled

Yeah I know.....finding a Aston Villa/Leeds forum this much fun can leed to frustration

Hey drucurl, I read your last two posts, but as I was going through them, words suddenly started turning into "blah blah blah's". I wonder why that is.

Remember that logic allergy the doc diagnosed you with? I think it's acting up

Nah, that usually happens to me when people try to reason with bullshit arguments.

Alright girls..knock it off....pick it up on PM if you really wanna show who's boss.

Quien es mas macho? X-Off es mas macho.

I think this Pato thing has gotten out of hand. Last I checked he wasn't the one missing wide open nets, and he's not partying or doing ridiculous thing off the pitch either. Let's just lay off for the moment. All this talk is pointless, especially since it's getting unnecassarily heated for some reason.

Ah yes, let's bash Robinho to make Pato look good.

Robinho has cause me more frustration over the last year then antonini ever did, i'm willing to accept i need some vaca for the hollidays

+∞

I find it funny that you would excuse Robinho but are quick to get on Pato's back. And it would be no shock if Robinho were the one to say bye bye should we really sign Tevez.

No matter how missing Pato goes in some matches, these cannot be excused no matter what you can think up of Link 1
Link 2

I'm on a Villa forum. Leeds? Why the **** would I want to go on a Leeds forum? Is there anything you say that makes sense?

If we exit the cl in the last 16 stage, then i hope the management shakes things up upfront, with that being said if ibra and pato perform superbly and we progress then all this futile talk can be put to bed.

The thing is why are we so focused on our forwards? Most major teams out there, their chances in the main come from top, top-quality creative mids, we don't really have that cutting edge. Nevermind bunching all these elaborate forwards together and any shortcomings in our season being identified as a problem limited to our front-line.

Imagine if we had Fabregas instead of Aquilani. We'd be on fire!

While I get what you're saying and I agree.

It must be acknowledged that our current set of midfielders are performing at best in recent years for us.

I don't know how accurate all the stats are (as I pulled them from a fb group), but they seem about accurate:

Nocerino ------ 6 goals
Aquilani ------- 1 goal and 7 assists
Boateng ------ 5 goals and 3 assists
Seedorf ------- 3 goals

...and its only halfway through the season.


Another interesting stat I came across recently was the fact that Cassan, despite all the time which he has been out for, is still leading the assists charts with 7 (in Serie A), and Aquilani with 6.


< See Sig> ... FORZA MILAN!!!

Mid-field is fine. Attack is fine. It's in the midfield-attack transition that we suffer. And I think the reason we are not getting an AM proper is we don't want to shift to a 'single point of reference thing' like we did when we had Kaka. So we just have to hope that our players build up the chemistry.

Galliani is that you??

Completely agree with you. We rely too much on our forwards to create the chances themselves. Pato is not the kind of striker who will notch up as many assists as goals.


That was just an unachievable dream. The management need to focus on something more realistic, or we'll never move forward. I personally don't get why they are obsessing over a striker. Even with Cassano injured for the moment we are still ok. The AM position is still in dire need of a proper player there who can play the role of an AM


I agree with the first bit, as for the single point of reference, I don't buy it. Because that point of reference was simply shifted onto Ibra

The CAM solution is simple really. Bring back Kaka. HE can't be that expensive now, he's proven in Italy, he's not a classic CAM who will occupy the space iBra thinks he can perform in, he's dynamic and a counterattacker. He's athe perfect link between iBra, Pato and the midfield. Also he's the best passer for a player in his class (runners)

That's not a simple solution either. Mourinho seems to want to keep him as well, so aside from the money, I don't think they'll be willing to part with him for nothing, which is what Galliani would want.

We need to look for someone young who isn't that well known and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg

He was proven in Italy, though lets remember in his final season/s he wasn't the best domestically, just showcasing himself on those big European nights (which obviously helps!).

I'm not sure if he's the sure fire proven option for us though, and as han says he will still cost a fair amount to bring back.

Milan have a tendency to chase after the big NAMES and Kaka seems to be the most realistic "big name" that B&G can gold-letter on milan.com. Also I think he'll have less stress on his body unlike '07 because of Ibra and Pato as opposed to back then when he was our whole offense basically


Yes well as I mentioned above he WAS our whole offense other than the occasional cameo by Seedorf and even more rarely, something of use from Pirlo. Now I'm pretty sure he'll have way more space to work with and a Kaka with space (sounds hilariously perverted I know) is quite dangerous