Define real progress. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Last season he made 25 appearances for score 14 goals with 4 assists. That was his fourth season with the club.

In comparison Kaka in his 4th season in the league had 8 goals and 8 assists. Of course Kaka was much more immense in the CL.

All I'm saying is that saying you have to sell someone coz he is not as good as World Player of the Year means you're being petty.In that case, there are a lot of other players in Milan you can be selling.

What do you mean potential skill? How does one decide what a player's 'potential' is? What makes us so educated to brand it?

So far this season , Pato has made 6 appearances! That's all. In 3 CL games he has 2 goals.

And as for injury...yes that is the only thing I can recommend to sell him. If he is injury prone, then it is a problem. But really, is that his fault? Or the club's? We f@ck his health up..and now let's sell him? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)


He is not attacking the box enough vs. He is not dropping deep to collect the ball aka no hustle
He cannot pass vs He is not dribbling

Basically, as far as I can see it is that Pato's only fault is he is not Messi, CR or Rooney-esque.

Generally speaking, strikers reach their peak from 26-30. I believe our management has proven its credibility by cutting off over-rated players ala Gilardino and Gourcuff, in recent times.

However, unlike recent times, we have the luxury of having a star studded front line. Hence our dependency on Pato is reduced. As such, I believe we can wait for the kid to deliver.

As for the opportunity cost of keeping him ... If we receive an offer, as we did for Sheva or Kaka, I believe he will be sold - This, regardless of how beneficial it is to have a player like him on our team.

That doesn't mean anything. It's what the games represented and meant to the team that made them so big and yes, he did step up big time. No matter how you try to twist it.

Arsenal? (he was a baby), United? (where was the rest of the team? Stop trying to expect pato to make sh!t happen on his own, he's not that kind of player), Spurs? (Didn't start the first game when we really messed it up and chances fell to the mishap that is Robinho in the 2nd leg, had any of them fell to Pato he would have scored them 9 out of 10 times).

Where were the more experianced players during those game? No where to be found. Expecting a player like Pato to do a Kaka and score a solo goal starting from his own half is ridiculous. Simply because he's not Kaka and not that type of player either.


Agreed. and I believe the management sill do as well. So this is a fruitless discussion as I believe he'll be a Milan player for a long time to come. No matter how much people seem to want a nut case over him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

And he doesn't play there either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Kaka was an AM. Attacking forward yes, but still an AM. Pato is a striker, a finisher, a poacher, or whatever you want to call it. If Kaka did not score a goal, no fudge was given, because it's his duty to create chances. And score if he gets one himself. Pato is not that, he's a pure finisher.

Sure, different coaches have different systems, and everyone would be happy if Pato went back every time and got the ball himself from the midfield dogs (of opposing teams), and make a run, beat everyone and their grandmothers, and slot the round object back in the net. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) He may do it once in a while, but if we expect him to do this continually, and crucify him for not doing so every time our team is in the gutter, then the rest of the AM/DM and forwards have earned a death sentence as far as I am concerned. Line them up against the wall, and pull the trigger, because they are doing diddlysquat.

For all intents and purposes, Pato gets the ball 3-4 times in a match (by this I mean good solid chances), when in reality he should be getting it a dozen or more times from our midfield. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) But who am I kidding, we don't even have the attacking part of the midfield (we did when Cassano was here). Give me a proper AM, or make Ibra play there, we need someone who can receive the ball from the midfield and pass it to our strikers.

Having said that, this doesn't absolve Pato of other duties: Tracking back when he can, helping the defense, pressure the opposing teams backline, making good decisions when passing to teammates. And well staying injury free, if he can. At the end of the day it comes down to our intentions: whether we need a quick 50 million by selling him, or go for the jackpot and win a CL with the guy in our team, marshaling our attack in a few years.

You're an intelligent person, Kurt, but sometimes I just don't get some of the things you say.

He was being facetious. Feel free to flame him though. He's a jerk! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Gila's scoring record in his first few seasons was fine.. in the league, but he was criticised and people wanted him gone because he couldn't get it done in the CL. It seems for some reason, Pato is given a free pass by most, despite having the same problem.

Well, Pato is younger and his talent is not comparable to Gila's. I think he's given a free pass is because we all expect him to turn into the next great thing, which he's failed to do so far.

Kurt, I don't get your position. It seems to me you build you opinion based on the masses direction. When "everyone" criticized Gilardino you were the one who defended him. When now "everyone" defends Pato, you criticize him. It's like you form your opinion to be uniquely, against the stream, and not on logical basis.

No, I was playing devils advocate in this case. As you know, the CL means less to me than the league. So to me, someones performance in a CL isn't that much of an issue. The reason I picked up on this is because everyone criticised Gila, yet now seems to give Pato a pass.

I also hate this whole 'cool to hate' thing we often have on here. People just make things up to fit their arguement. Gila scored 17 in the league in his first season at a big club. Then the myth that his goals were 'not important' came about and all that rubbish.

Difference is that Gila was someone you could count on to play. Pato, not so much.

I don't get this logic really. Is this written somewhere? Does Pato have to be completely developed into the final product by the age of 21? If not than he should be shipped out?

Just plain ridiculous imo. He's had circumstances to deal with that have stunted his development. Of course he'll take more time to achieve what he possibly can in the future. It's not like he's pushing his late 20s and approaching the twilight of his career. He's 22 FFS!!! We're talking as if he's 27!!

Injury prone players are injury prone. Sooner people learn that, the better.

As Blue mentioned somewhere, Brazilian players are usually done by the age of 28. Ronaldo, Kaká, Ronaldinho, Adriano, Robinho etc. were already top players when they were 22. Pato's development has been stagnating for some time now. He used to be a much better player when he was 19 than nowadays. And yes, his injuries are one of the main reasons for that.

And another is the stupid blend of coaches, each with his own unique system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Most top players now-a-days, when they are developing, usually stay in a stable environment with a single coach (Kaka, Cristiano, and Messi, etc). Pato's had to battle not only injuries but starting positions too, in his time here.

Where you play depends a lot on how you develop. Play too isolated upfront, and you turn into Inzaghi. Play on the tougher positions on the wings, and you my turn a bit like CRON, so on and so forth.

Who says that that has to be the same case for everyone?? Just because he's from a certain nationality than he has to conform by those rules?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

All those players you mentioned burnt out so fast because they were pushed so far when they were young, and some of them brought it on themselves due to their unhealthy lifestyle and it has nothing to do with football

@ acid, that is also another great point. Pato has had to change his playing style 3 times, while he was developing and dealing with terrible injuries. Carlo gave him a free role, Leo gave him a rigid winger role and now under Allegri he's a simple finisher. Trying to blame this on him because he does what his coaches need him to is beyond reason