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X-Offender
I never saw that coming, never. His problem supposedly had been resolved and he was in excellent condition, although not match fit. But coming in and off after only 10 minutes was just incredible.
Fillipo Simone
It was one of the brilliant moves Allegri makes every now and then with lists, subs and player relations.

But it was an incredible illusion to expect all problems gone away after a few sessions. I'm always guided by that old rule: X time spent injured must result in X time spent preparing for a full recuperation.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 4 2012, 12:18 AM) *
It was one of the brilliant moves Allegri makes every now and then with lists, subs and player relations.

But it was an incredible illusion to expect all problems gone away after a few sessions. I'm always guided by that old rule: X time spent injured must result in X time spent preparing for a full recuperation.


But to get injured after only 10 minutes, considering what have been said after his entry from the US? Mind-blowing.
Fillipo Simone
That simply shows that the problem goes beyond the usual incompetence of our team doctors.
Zed.D
One must be crazy to think spending 10 days in America magically solved his injury problems. they just said they've found a solution.

Remember Pato was almost fit (i.e. over his injury... only to get injured soon) when he flew to America, it's not like they made him fit. he went there uninjured and came back uninjured. he stepped on the pitch and injured himself like usual. I don't see any difference to be honest.

His substitution was a total embarrassment. what was Max thinking??
Jack Bauer
Though you did wanted him to start.

QUOTE (Zed.D @ Apr 1 2012, 12:50 AM) *
Normally I would say Pato shouldn't play when he's been in and out of action for so long. but then I think about Robinho and his big misses, and El Sha and his vast inexperience, and I say screw it, play the Duck! he hasn't really disappointed against the Spanish duo before.
Zed.D
But I didn't know about his physical situation, the coaches knew.
Jack Bauer
And they thought that he's fit enough to play. The quote from few days ago: "he is in good if not excellent condition"
Zed.D
That's the problem, our doctors are complete idiots. "thought" he's fit enough? he barely lasted 15 minutes FFS... I don't know why but I trusted them when they said he's in good shape, hence suggesting he should start.

You can't say Max was fooled by our doctors too, though. he observes the players during trainings, if Pato looked as unfit and he did during those minutes Max should never have risked on him. especially with Maxi and El Sha on bench.
Jack Bauer
Max wouldn't play him if Pato didn't look good in the training sessions before the game. But doctors or not, IMO he should't have been in the squad for the game to begin with. We should have waited with him till he's 200% ready.
Zed.D
He looked rusty as usual, I don't know what he showed in the training that convinced Max to play him... IMO Max did it out of sheer desperation and it backfired badly. I think he made a mistake but I'm not blaming him for it, it's just a very confusing situation with Pato.
drucurl
As a big Pato fan I'm losing patience with this situation. Hopefully it will go away with the recommendations of the Americans. This Milan team needs someone like Pato (sans the injuries of course). iBra alone is not enough. In fact people are given a false sense of security by his performances against the lower calibre teams to think he can hack it against the big boys.

If we can't help the duck help us then let another team get a crack. But we need a Pato/Messi/Robben/Neymar/Robinho-who-can-finish- type player....a player who can run at the defense at PACE and cause havoc and create channels for the other attackers
han2503
I think we should all let this rest for a bit.

It's obvious that inclusion of Pato in the team was pre-mature, let alone to push him into the game when the entire team had already seemingly given up on it. It's obvious that whatever treatments he should have had were pushed back so he could get back into the team. Going from, his season is over, to he'll be back in 3 days just does not make any sense
acid911
QUOTE (drucurl @ Apr 4 2012, 05:26 PM) *
a player who can run at the defense at PACE and cause havoc and create channels for the other attackers

+1. sleep.gif So very true!
X-Offender
Pato was in excellent condition, and his problem supposedly had been resolved, we were told before the match. Allegri saw him in training and was convinced to bring him on the bench. I don't see any problem in playing him for the last 20 minutes or so. But to get injured again so quickly? Meh... We're back to square one. Broken.
William405
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 4 2012, 05:29 PM) *
Pato was in excellent condition, and his problem supposedly had been resolved, we were told before the match. Allegri saw him in training and was convinced to bring him on the bench. I don't see any problem in playing him for the last 20 minutes or so. But to get injured again so quickly? Meh... We're back to square one. Broken.


+1
Zed.D
I don't get it, how could he be in "excellent shape" if he couldn't last 15 minutes in the game without getting injured? turns out what they said about him being in good shape was total nonsense.

QUOTE
his problem supposedly had been resolved

Care to explain how? by flying to the US, visiting a specialist and coming back?

He was there barely enough to get any serious treatments. I don't think you can make a problem that has been persisting for three years disappear in two week's time. not in the real world anyway.
acid911
Nah, his problem supposedly had been diagnosed. smile.gif The just pinpointed the reason where he was getting most of his injuries, but the full treatment will take a while to start. Maybe during the summer break.
X-Offender
He was in excellent condition meaning his last injury (the one he suffered against Juventus, about a month and a half ago) had been treated. He was not match fit, but anyone can play 20 minutes with two days of training. And I'm just speaking for what the medics told us after his return. OK, his problem apparently hasn't been solved yet, he'll keep getting injured until a further date. But it's mind-blowing that someone can get injured so often and so quickly after a recovery, time after time after time. I don't think I've seen anything of the sorts during my 12 years of following football.
Zed.D
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 4 2012, 10:51 PM) *
I don't think I've seen anything of the sorts during my 12 years of following football.


Me neither. and it happened to my favorite young player. goes to show you how much I think it sucks.

QUOTE (acid911 @ Apr 4 2012, 07:23 PM) *
Maybe during the summer break.


But is there enough time to do it during the summer...? I wish they'd start it right now. he can't salvage this nightmare of a season no matter what he does.
Fillipo Simone
And you guys think we'll have a chance selling Pato this summer for a good price? Who'd want such a risk?
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 5 2012, 10:43 AM) *
And you guys think we'll have a chance selling Pato this summer for a good price? Who'd want such a risk?

Paris Saint-Germain
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Apr 5 2012, 11:19 AM) *
Paris Saint-Germain

I don't think they'll offer as much as they did this January. Why would they?
Jack Sparrow
From football-italia:

QUOTE
Alexandre Pato’s season has come to an end after the Milan man suffered another muscle injury in the 3-1 loss at Barcelona.

The Brazilian international was recently given the all clear after medical checks in America last week, but his comeback lasted just 13 minutes at the Nou Camp.

“His season is over,” revealed Rossoneri doctor Jean Pierre Meersseman to the Gazzetta dello Sport. “We’ll have to start again when he has healed.

“But who will take the responsibility of playing him again? I really don’t know which Saint I should now turn to...”

Pato, who almost joined Paris Saint-Germain in January, has picked up 14 muscle strains since January 2010.

“He’s been all over, from Germany to America, in a bid to resolve his fragile muscles,” Meersseman added.

“He’s been looked at and cured. I’ve even asked my spiritual therapist to pray for him…

“I didn’t sleep at all after the Barcelona game. I’ll take responsibility for the relapse, even if I don’t know what they are.

“I didn’t solve something in three weeks which hasn’t been resolved in two years.

“Pato was declared fit on 13 occasions, but evidently he wasn’t healed. When I saw on the TV that he was injured I felt bad. I wasn’t expecting it to go like that.”
acid911
sad.gif
Zed.D
This is a nightmare. poor guy. I can't imagine what he's going through right now. and the sadder part is that some people expect him to shine in those few minutes that he gets to play between each injury rolleyes.gif you see players struggle to hit top form for a while after one single injury, he's been in and out of action for 3 seasons. I'd argue we haven't seen the real Pato since 2008-09.

Anyway, this doctor Meersseman sounds depressing. whatever happened to the "definite solution" that they found in America?
Zed.D
And as things stand, there's no way we'll [be able to] sell him. no one would buy him. either we stick with him, start special treatments and hope for the best, or terminate his contract and let him go wherever he wants. I can't see us doing the latter (both from economical and moral points of view) so we'll stick with him.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 5 2012, 11:38 AM) *
I don't think they'll offer as much as they did this January. Why would they?

They probably will offer less, but then again, they offered a lot last January. It still can be considered a good offer, depending on what they are going to offer and what one sees as a good offer.
Jack Bauer
Gotta feel bad for the kid - in the last two season he went from the best striker in the world potential to a guy who can't stay injury free for more than few games at most.
acid911
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Apr 5 2012, 05:36 PM) *
Gotta feel bad for the kid - in the last two season he went from the best striker in the world potential to a guy who can't stay injury free for more than few minutes at most.

Fixed. sleep.gif sad.gif
X-Offender
Jack Bauer
from acmilan.com:

QUOTE
A.C. Milan are absolutely determined to resolve Alexandre Pato’s muscular problems as quickly as possible.

There are numerous options, both diagnostic and therapeutic, still open and there’s no doubt that the current situation will be brought to a satisfactory conclusion.

Pato will be back soon stronger than ever.
acid911
They haven't given up on him. smile.gif At least that's what it seems. Save for Galliani, that is.
Danny
The guy has a serious problem. I don't think his body is capable of the rigours of football - bad genes possibly.

His muscles simply do not cope with the top level game - and I doubt he will ever get any better.

He really did have potential, but with this news, I think, sadly, the game's up for him.
X-Offender
Zed.D
QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 5 2012, 09:23 PM) *
The guy has a serious problem. I don't think his body is capable of the rigours of football - bad genes possibly.

His muscles simply do not cope with the top level game - and I doubt he will ever get any better.

He really did have potential, but with this news, I think, sadly, the game's up for him.


He played football until 19-20, including 3-4 years professionally, with no problem. then we made him big and he started to get injured (I clearly remember one of his interview where he said he'd been doing trainings and been gaining a few kilos and how he's happy with that because he's "stronger" now). so, no. it's not genes IMO. just bad treatment.

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Apr 5 2012, 08:37 PM) *
from acmilan.com:

QUOTE
A.C. Milan are absolutely determined to resolve Alexandre Pato’s muscular problems as quickly as possible.

There are numerous options, both diagnostic and therapeutic, still open and there’s no doubt that the current situation will be brought to a satisfactory conclusion.

Pato will be back soon stronger than ever.



What'd I say... they know they've f'ed him up and now they're responsible.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 5 2012, 04:53 PM) *
The guy has a serious problem. I don't think his body is capable of the rigours of football - bad genes possibly.

His muscles simply do not cope with the top level game - and I doubt he will ever get any better.

He really did have potential, but with this news, I think, sadly, the game's up for him.

He was ok before they started messing with his body. He played both in Brazil and Italy without any injury before these past few years. I refuse to believe that it's something that was always wrong with him, if that were the case then he'd have had these problems before.
Jack Bauer
Danny
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Apr 5 2012, 08:35 PM) *
He played football until 19-20, including 3-4 years professionally, with no problem. then we made him big and he started to get injured (I clearly remember one of his interview where he said he'd been doing trainings and been gaining a few kilos and how he's happy with that because he's "stronger" now). so, no. it's not genes IMO. just bad treatment.


If it was all about the treatment, we'd have other players in the same boat. Constantly getting injured and spending lengthy spells on the sidelines.

As for what you said about him playing football 'then we made him big' - that's kinda what I'm getting at. His body is not capable of the rigours of this level of football, and the physical strength that it requires. Ditto the pace and dexterity needed.

His body has not handled the step up.
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 6 2012, 12:07 AM) *
He was ok before they started messing with his body. He played both in Brazil and Italy without any injury before these past few years. I refuse to believe that it's something that was always wrong with him, if that were the case then he'd have had these problems before.


Brazil is a totally different ball game to Italy. When he arrived here it was all about potential, and how he needed to bulk up a bit and realise the ability he had.

He's not coped with that.
acid911
QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 8 2012, 04:37 PM) *
His body has not handled the step up.

The big question is, was this trip really necessary?! rolleyes.gif Did we just have to bulk him up?!
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (acid911 @ Apr 8 2012, 02:40 PM) *
The big question is, was this trip really necessary?! rolleyes.gif Did we just have to bulk him up?!


CR, Kaka, Messi .. All superstars and all received/receiving growth treatment ... Bulking him up allows him to sustain the hard work that is required in training and during the 90 mins of each game.

Now the question should be, is Pato eligible for such treatment? He most likely should be, otherwise the medical before signing him would have been a fluke.
Danny
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 8 2012, 01:04 PM) *
CR, Kaka, Messi .. All superstars and all received/receiving growth treatment ... Bulking him up allows him to sustain the hard work that is required in training and during the 90 mins of each game.

Now the question should be, is Pato eligible for such treatment? He most likely should be, otherwise the medical before signing him would have been a fluke.


Or just wrong?
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 8 2012, 03:25 PM) *
Or just wrong?


Could be ... Nothing is definitive, as the medical team don't know what wrong with him. And despite their notorious track-record with our players being injured, they still are more capable than any of us; unless one of us is a medical practitioner.
Jack Sparrow
Article from football-italia
QUOTE
“Milan communicates that today Alexandre Pato underwent an MRI scan. The examination has shown an injury, between grade one and grade two, to the biceps femoris muscle of the left leg.”

It is a statement so frequently posted on Milan's official website that all they need do is copy and paste the last one, and change the minor details such as the leg affected.

How frequently is it posted? La Gazzetta dello Sport reckon Pato's injury against Barcelona was his 14th since January 2010, although only half of them were identified as hamstring injuries, with another two simply labelled as muscle strains in his right and left leg respectively.

Although La Gazzetta use January 2010 as a cut-off, Pato had suffered hamstring injuries before this point, yet more than two years later, now approaching three, the club are no closer to solving the problem.

In December 2010 they sent Pato to the USA to seek opinion from Dr William Garrett, a specialist in orthopaedics at Duke University. He conducted a variety of gait analyses using video and force plates, and concluded the problem was postural - Pato's running style means he leans too far forward during sprints, creating a muscle imbalance that loads the hamstrings.

Former sprinter Stefano Tilli also believes Pato’s issues stem from posture, although he identified a problem in the lower half of the body in Thursday’s Gazzetta: “When the foot leaves the ground, the pelvis is too far forward, and the foot is parallel to the floor, instead of at a 90 degree angle to the rest of the leg. It places too much pressure on the hamstrings.”

Either MilanLab were not listening to Garrett’s opinions or they ignored his advice altogether, because the problems have not subsided. They may even think that Garrett is wrong, and certainly the change in direction this year seems to suggest MilanLab believe there is a different cause for the injuries.

From an orthopaedic specialist in 2010, Milan - under the guidance of Jean-Pierre Meersseman - took him to a chiropractic neurologist, Dr Frederick Carrick, only last week. After assessing Pato’s brain activity, he amusingly gave him a clean bill of health on the Friday, only to see the Brazilian injured the following Tuesday.

What has flown under the radar throughout this two-and-a-half year period, and indeed Carlo Ancelotti’s final season where injuries were also rife, is the constant changing of staff at MilanLab.

The last four seasons have seen four different individuals as director of medicine at the club – Massimiliano Sala in 2008-09, Massimo Manara in 2009-10, Gianluca Melegati in 2010-11 and now Rodolfo Tavana, who took over last May, and was previously at the club from 1987-2003. Each has brought one or two of their own doctors with them, and as is the way in medicine, each has their own specialty and ideas for injury prevention and management.

This position belonged to Meersseman before the flurry of changes, but he has taken an increasingly marginal role since 2008 at his own request. He was credited as one of the driving forces behind the MilanLab set-up, and the fact that each of the four seasons since he vacated the post has seen the squad decimated by injuries augments his reputation.


It is telling that the club turned to him to solve Pato’s problems, and it also explains the massive difference in approach from 2010 to now. Melegati, an expert in rehabilitation and injury prevention, took Pato to an orthopaedic specialist, Meersseman, a chiropractor, took him to see a colleague in his same field.

Both approaches have failed, though given the decent injury record during his time at the club, you would fancy Meersseman to get to the bottom of it. He had a sly dig at the length of time he had been given when speaking of Pato’s latest setback: “I have not solved something in three weeks that has not been resolved in two years.” Perhaps he should have focused on the real problem hurting the No 7 right now, the continuity of care, or lack thereof.
Zed.D
QUOTE
Pato 'working intensely' on comeback

By Football Italia staff

Alexandre Pato has told Brazilian media he is “working intensely and thinking about the Olympics,” explaining his latest Milan injury setback.

The striker has barely featured this season due to a series of muscular problems, including a serious thigh strain just minutes after making his comeback at the Nou Camp.

“The decision to play in Barcelona was made by everyone, including me,” he told Rede Globo.

“I live for football. It is my work and my life. When I can run and kick a ball, I always do it with joy and a smile on my face. It’s exactly what I want to do.

“I want to get back to playing well, scoring many goals and giving my contribution to help Milan and the Seleçao.

“Now I am working intensely and thinking about the Olympics. The only way I can speak to Brazil manager Mano Menezes is by working on the pitch. I try to do my best.”

Milan Coach Massimiliano Allegri was also interviewed by the Brazilian programme and praised ‘The Duck.’

“Pato is a very important player. He hasn’t been able to feature much this season, but he is very young and this is why I think he can become the best in the world.”

Despite the injury nightmares, he remains positive as usual.

I don't remember him ever getting injured while on duty with Selecao* so I don't see any reason why he shouldn't go to London if he gets called up. it'll do him a lot of good.


* If that's indeed the case, then it's safe to assume there's something wrong with out training methods/fitness coaches more than there's something wrong with Pato. (as we saw with Prince as well)
X-Offender
They both suck, i.e. our medical staff and Pato's injury proneness.
William405
You are pr0 in creating theories as well,as long as it's not proven,I'm not going to buy it,and it's what every person should do.You can't blame the player before your "theory" is confirmed.
X-Offender
QUOTE (William405 @ May 8 2012, 08:25 PM) *
You are pr0 in creating theories as well,as long as it's not proven,I'm not going to buy it,and it's what every person should do.You can't blame the player before your "theory" is confirmed.


Pato's been having injury problems for more than two years now, not only this season. There's nothing wrong in assuming his injury proneness is beyond normality.
drucurl
It always amazes me....the comments that people make about the kid when there's so little information about what has happened. The latest is that he's with Barbara now so he has no more desire rolleyes.gif
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