Does that entitles him to an endless supply of chocolate-chip cookies too? If so I won't mind being in zd's shoes at this point in time!

Hah, where are you? she's sent me a box of cookies via pm!

You know what they say, one can never have enough cookies. Particularly if they are virtual.

Dunga is a dumbass.....but interesting comment on Sobis....he's a fantastic talent and I'd like to see him AND Pato play together.....Ever since Milan was interested in him I was in love with him to me, he's the Inzaghi (with waaaaay more skills) and Pato's the sheva
Dunga is a dumbass (again) for not recoginsing that Pato likes to create his own moves like Sheva does......even sheva was a ****** finisher ("******" as in compared to the clinical world class strikers like RVN, Trez and Eto'o NOt the likes of Heskey, Corradi and Gila lol ) and ....he scored so much because he made so much


Naughty words removed.

I think Ronaldinho has done well in this tournament. I think Ronaldinho and Pato have connected well too... but Dunga doesn't give them a chance. Sobis is rubbish compared to Pato, and always will be a second rate player. I hope that Milan never buys this Oliveira look-alike.

Dunga is a very dumb man with very little understanding. It seems to me like he doesn't want his team to beat Argentina and go onto the finals.

I don't agree about Ronaldinho but that's subjective...

Sobis... we almost signed him two years ago...

I don't think Dunga is dumb. He sure knows his squad and can evaluate who more efficiently applies his tactics better than we do and I also believe we are biased when it comes to Pato while he does not see Milan, he only sees Brazil.
That said, there's no doubt Pato is a better player than Sobis.

Oh and I don't rate Dunga.

Ronaldinho has been gaining back his form and he has shown that quite extensively. I mean for goodness sakes we want him in better form? I don't care if he just walks around the field... as long as he plays some and gets back in shape. I always maintained that he should view the Olympics as a training exercise for the upcoming Serie A season.

Sobis... I'm glad we didn't sign him. He in my eyes is just another Oliveira.

I do think he is... especially with this misguided statements on Pato. It's not whether we are biased, but it's who more developed. Pato I believe is more developed than Sobis by a mile.

What?

I think he means that Dunga only cares for the Brazilan Pato. And doesn't give a hoot about the Pato for Milan. We as fans care for both his performances, with the NT as well as for our club.

Aha...

Well, does Dunga's recent comments mean tomorrow there'll be no Duck again?...

Sobis will be crap so Pato will be brought on!

Hopefully.

Though as a Brazil fan, I'm not that optimistic about tomorrow's game...

Argentina are a tricky team. I like their style more than the Brazilian (but for obvious reasons, I will be siding with Brazil) .. Still, Argentina lay the best football in Latin America, the way they incorporate tactics into their game. They will also have a lot of experience, a super star and the potential to make the final and get the gold.

Yet, I really want Ronaldinho and Pato to get the gold.

I tend to agree with you. But Argentina isn't in that great of shape either... they've really struggled with counter attacks... their defensive is iffy... and beyond this team, Argentina has been destroyed by Brazil more times than once (take the Copa America where Argentina was definitely tiled as the favorites).

If Sobis starts... I really don't think he will do well at all.

The one whose performance has worried me even more than the mostly-invisible Sobis has been Diego. He's veryvery good when playing for Bremen but...something wonky happens when he plays for the NT. He's not nearly as good.

Kinda reminds me of Mario Gomes with regards to the German NT...

I'd give Gomez a little more time before giving him the 'choker' label. He'd only had a handful of call ups before the Euros. And he started out his Bundesliga season with very clinical finishing in Stuttgart's game this past weekend.

Yeah. I'll give him more times... but the performances (or lack of) in the Euros he had were shocking... he missed many sitters...

"Brazil at its best" > "Argentina at its best"... in any aspect. just my opinion.

But it's obvious this Brazil is far from its best.

I don't get the Sobis hatred. It's only natural that he be more developed than Pato....he's three years older!!! Pato has more TALENT and more skills but there's a ceiling on how good you can be at 18...even for Ronaldo, Pele and Maradonna (ok maybe not pele ) Sobis simply knows the game better. Ability-wise Pato is better than Sobis but not by that much as some think.

Well if he knows the game better than Pato it certainly does not show on the field...

Yes. Lets get a real good example of that lol... Gilardino is how many years older than Pato, yet managed to score less goals than Pato last season (even though Pato only played a half of a season). Just because he's a few years older does not mean he's better. Far from it. Pato is and always will be better than a second rate striker like Sobis. It's sad that Dunga has to rely on him. Sobis does not know the game better.

Pato is miles better than Sobis. Sobis = Oliveira

First of all Olivera isn't a bad striker as you think....he had trouble fitting at Milan but that was in a particularly rough period in his life.

Secondly WE AGREE that Pato>>>>Sobis. All I said is that Sobis is more matured as a striker hence certain things would or should come easier to him as Dunga alluded to.

Thirdly Sobis was unfortunate to go to a Betis in decline where chances were few and their most creativ player Joaquin left. That's pretty tough for a 20 year old to deal with. Yet he managed to come into his own towards the end of the season.

I'm not saying that he's second rate and I'm not saying that he isn't I'm simply saying that it's too early to judge

Sobis would have just as many problems, if not more. Oliveira had trouble fitting in because he would be better at a team where more attention was on him... but in Milan, we work as a team. Pato fits into that structure as he connects well with many players in Milan.

Sobis is not more matured I don't think. And I think it's inappropriate that Dunga relies on him. I would even say that Jo is better. Sobis is just another player that will do fine in a lower ranked team, but flunk out in a top high pressure team like Milan.

Jo at least has CL experience.

+33. It's too soon for anything for Gomez. Let's give him time. Just last year he was out of this world in the German league (at least). Plus he's about as young as they come, only 22 give or take. Would I welcome him in Milan? You bet. He's worth a risk. But I doubt we'll see him. I also wanted to see Roque Santa Cruz as a striker, but even though he won't cost much and wanted to come to Milan (from Bayern) our management is too smart for all this. Ditto for Gomez. Or Benzema. Oh well.


Oh very tricky. They are a bunch of losers labeled as talent. Beautiful football they play, but you can't hide their arrogance and over confidence. Yet with all of that they still can't win anything. Lost 0-3 to Brazil in the last Copa America. A guy like Adriano rolled them over in the one before that. What happened in the World Cup 2006 is for everyone to see.

They had a full world class XI (with the likes of Zanetti, Messi, Riquelme, Tevez, Ayala, Crespo, Rodrigez, Heinze and more) but still lost. They had a genius, that Maradona guy, and that's the reason why they won something. I can give more examples if I want to, but you can tell I'm not their biggest fan. Like you said, they play very attractive football, but I'll take the Samba variant day in and day out.

And I share your opinion. Any day of the week.

Fair enough, but I wasn't calling Brazils second best when compared to Argentina. It's Maradona that gave me the soft spot for Argentina, all the way till WC '94 when he was kicked out for using. Careca was another point of reference. Also in the previous edition of the WC, Argentina were very good in the group stages, and lost to Germany who were playing on home soil. I agree Brazil have more International recognition than Argentina and that is only just, because Brazil is synonymous to football and beautiful play.

It is just that I prefer a more tactically disciplined team. That is all, a matter of preference

Of course it is. And let it not be said that I don't respect other people's opinions. I'm very accommodating in this regard. You have every right to enjoy the footballing display by other teams, including Argentina. And excluding merda.

Point is, they are one of the top teams of world football. (Don't quote Kurt on this though). And they play very watchable football both individually and as a team. It's just that I've seen enough from them to classify them as losers. Sore losers, as a matter of fact. But still they are in the same league as Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Czechs, and more. Football won't be the same without them.

I don't like the Brazil NT at all. Their annoying football in addition to the hype that surrounds it irritates me to no end. It seems I'm the only one here that thinks this way though...

Not quite, dst. There's a fin raised in agreement with you.

Well, I'm sure you can find one or two people on this forum supporting your idea, dst. We all have different preferences on what to like and what not to. For example, I'm not very much into Argentina. Likewise the England NT, that I feel carry the same hype plus their annoying football display, doesn't ring too many bells.

At least Brazil sometimes backs themselves up with their footballing display. Can't say the same for the England national team. Their clubs are different, but the NT is in a hole of it's own. They are to me what Brazil is to you. So we all have different likes and dislikes.

^^ True enough there, acid.

(for example, I really don't much like the English league. any of it. Will watch Villa games if they're broadcast because Kurt is a malign influence, but that's it).

So...at least we're fairly sure Pato won't return with any injuries?

Fairly. Yes. I don't see any reason why not. We'll know for 100% in the semifinal match, though.

How can anyone dislike beautiful anti machine-like football I'll never understand... anyway...

July 17, 1994.

So what. to hate Brazil because they beat Italy? blame it on Baggio!

I'd rather blame it on Dunga.

And I agree with dst. The Brazilians are too arrogant for their own good sometimes. They're not the only ones in the world capable of playing a fluid style of attacking football either.

Come on, Ten. They were both great teams to progress to the final. At least, I'm proud of that day, though I'd have been happy had the result gone either way. At least Paolo lost to a good team, unlike the quarterfinals of France 98. That was the worst world cup. Ever.

But I won't ask you to change yourself. It's perfectly okay to not like Brazilian style. But I can assure you they are not as bad as they seem. Brazil has regularly been winning the FIFA Fair Play award. They usually have the least amount of fouls. Plus, they play attacking and a completely different breed of football. For me, they are right above the top along with Italy and Portugal.

^^ Okay, point. The brazilians may be arrogant, but they won't kick you to death like the Argies.

I disagree. Pato in Serie A would be better than Sobis in Serie A, I agree. But you put Pato in La Liga? I think Sobis would be a better player over a season.

Your opinion. I don't understand why some elevate Sobis up to the level of Pele or something along that lines... it's confusing.

Pele should be happy that I even consider him in the same league as Sobis.. which I don't.

Yeah I'm glad you don't, because Sobis is rubbish compared to Pato.

That's not what I meant. I was implying that Pele is.. not the best player in history, or in the top *enter whatever number you want here* players in history.

I misread your post. I thought you said Pato, and not Pele.

I think I should read more closely next time sorry. Not only that I misunderstood the meaning... lol.

Sometimes I make myself wonder...

I despise the guy as much as the next guy but you are going too far with this statement... you have not even seen a full match of him pal...

I've seen some World Cup finals, but yes, you're right. I haven't seen enough of him to say, so how can I say he's in the top 100 or so footballers of all time?

I just use common sense really. Internation football, up until about the late 80s was very, very weak. The kind of weak where the likes of Brazil, England, Italy, Germany, etc. could put out players from their 2nd division and still beat 90% of the Worlds nations, comfortabley. So to praise him as World class for this.. nah, he was a good player in a good team, but at this sort of time being good was enough to win you things on the international stage. He also played in a weak league. The Brazilian league still isn't that great, it produces a few good players, but the Argentine league is ALOT better, and even that doesn't come close to comparing with Europes top leagues now, forget 40 years ago.

Just my opinion on it. So saying Pele isn't in the top 100 players ever? Yeah, I'll stand by that.

The Brazilian league is far superior compared to the Argentine league. The Brazilian league produces far more talents, even these days, that are more sought after than Argentina. Argentina simply lacks something that Brazil has. I'll put Pele on the level of a football god because that is what he was. He was most certainly world class.

Sobis on the other hand is rubbish. He's NOT world class.

..

I don't know what to say about this but your viewpoint is very wrong.


You want to say that now Germany, Italy and Brazil cannot beat 90% of the other Worlds nations? Like Burma, Cuba, Jamaica, Botswana? Anyway, international football is not about beating the other 99%, it's about the world cup. Yes, I agree, nowdays teams like Equador or Mexico put up much more then 40 years ago. But still, there were some great teams besides Italy, Brazil, Germany and England. You had a strong Sweden, Poland, Yugoslavia, and many more.

Anyway, to compare Pele with Sobis, and then approach to that comparison in such a disrespectfull manner was unnecessary at least.

I completely disagree! if there's one league Pato can play up to his true potential, it's La Liga. Serie A is more defensive and man-marking in it is just crazy, not to mention that its defenders are head and shoulders above La Liga defenders. in La Liga they tend to play more attack-oriented foorball, consequently they usually leave LOTS of spaces in their 1/3. that's the most ideal thing for the Duck as he has both technique and speed. he can definitely be a success in Spain as well. maybe even more successful than in Serie A - because [IMO] Serie A is the hardest league for a striker.

(By the way, I'm only talking about Pato. I don't know Sobis that well)