Thing is, I don't see any connection between the two. It's like everything they do they do it seperate and has no relation to the other. Pato scores his goals, Ibra his and there's simply no chemistry at all.

I think it's just unfair of Cesare to say that Pato needs to work hard at it. Ibra does as well, it's not just Pato in the wrong, Ibra has come in and is trying to run the show, and even though he's scored some ridiculously important goals for us, sometimes I just can't stand how he expects everything to go his way, even on the pitch you notice him shouting at everyone who doesn't give him the perfect ball.

Yes Pato needs to work harder, track back more, etc, but in order for Ibra and Pato to work as a striking duo they both need to work at it not just Pato, and that's why I feel what Maldini Sr said is just plain unfair to Pato who imo deserves loyality far more then someone like Ibra.

If I had the authority I'd take a cookie away from him

I wouldn't call it 'plain unfair' because you obviously did not consider the context. From what I've read here, Cesare has been kind of pushed into a corner. He isn't a politician, so he missed the needed rethorical phrases to maybe get out, but the way I see it, he had no option - almost anything he'd say would have endend up being labeled us unfair. He just chose the lesser evil.

Everyone's afraid of Ibra's taekwondo kicks...

No he could have just said they both need to work at it, he clearly singled out Pato in his argument.

Ok,I may have exaggerated a bit about Pato being more influential than Ibra.But the case remains that Pato is our biggest prospect of all,we need him as a starter.

Well, that would be a political solution. To say nothing really or to lie.
And we all know that this season there're some real problems with Pato.

Actualy no, it's not a must. We're not a talent developer team. He needed to be benched for quite some time. Now that he scored 2 in the Coppa game, Allegri should put him back in the starting XI. But not for granted.

I'd agree with you if you were talking about our fullbacks situation.But come on,we're using 3 strikers,you don't think Pato deserves a place?Cassano has proved to be great when entering in the last 20-30 minutes,but he's still not fit to play a whole match.Also,Pato isn't a raw a talent,if he and Ibra cooperate then it'll be great.

I don't think Pato plays as well as he can but I don't think it's because he's not trying enough. I believe he does not know how good he can be. The most disappointing thing about him is that he does not use his incredible speed. Many times he has room to run and he just pushed the ball ahead there's no way the defenders can keep up with him.

As for playing him and Ibra together, the way I can see it working is with Pato playing as a proper striker and Ibra is given a supporting role which I think he can do very well.

Yep, it's true. I don't understand why Allegri does not try that out.

Because both Pato and Ibra although they play differently, occupy pretty much the same space on the pitch. Similar to the R80 Kaka situation.

And Ibra's a lot better at handling markers than Pato..which means Pato requires to play behind Ibra and make the passes and the runs. His skills in these areas have been just bad...when you compare them to the other two options which are Robinho and Cassano.

Right now Pato seems to have one incomparable skill...start just outside the box and finish. With Ibra in the form of his life and doing precisely everything a striker can do, Pato needs to offer something extra if he wants to start.

Pato is a bad passer and he does not run - not as often as he should. he does not need to play away from the area, he's shown he's better when he's near it. Ibra often in games drifts to the side and he can play the supporting striker role very well as he's a very good passer too and he sees the field (even looking down I guess, with his height).

If you look at it, our SS (Robinho or Cassano) both drop deep to pick up the ball and make the run. Ibra is also capable of holding up the ball while waiting for our mid-field runners to come in. This is not something Pato can do. In fact I think without Pirlo/KPB to bring the ball out of mid-field Pato's strengths are not that obvious while his problems with passing/vision become a liability.

Agreed


Agreed


Jack I think you're making a distinction that is not really relevant. Ibra does not have to stand as a pivot and bring the ball down for others at all times, and just because Pato cannot do this it doesn't mean he cannot play as the Prima Punta while Ibra plays behind him. It can still work, it just has to be implemented correctly. We used to play with Sheva and Pippo, neither were target men that could bring the ball down and hold it up, it still worked, we used to play with Kaka, Seedorf and Pippo, again no target man that can bring the ball down for the mids. Currently Pato is bein wasted away either on the bench or playing on the wing or trying to support Ibra. Ibra imo is a lot more then a simple target man who can hold up the ball for others, it's another waste if you ask me.

Pato playing as the stiker with Ibra in support of him is the key to making those 2 click. Ibra has the vision and passing ability, as well as the speed and strength to shrug off marker when playing from deep. While Pato is arguably our best finisher, better then Ibra. Imo Pato needs to be treated like Pippo. ie if it was a Pippo Ibra pairing up front then no one would question having Ibra in support of him, and that is why they worked well together before Pippo's injury

You forget that Pippo has the best off-the-ball movement in the universe. Which is why Ibra loves him. Pato not so much....

Pato playing outside the box in a stationary role...not happening. To have Ibra as a support striker would probably push his goal threat down. Currently Ibra stands at 13 goals with 8 assists. He's inhuman right now. Pato needs to change his playing style a little. Add a little more graft...and more intelligent movement. He cannot depend on having space all the time.

I think Pato and Ibra can play together...but some changes are required. They would need to constantly rotate their positions between SS and Primo punta...depending on the game situation. For that they need to play together a lot. For that the duck needs to be fit.

But to bring the duck on, you have to bench either Robinho or Cassano. Which begs the question what have they done wrong.

Generally speaking, Pato and Ibra would be the best striking duo in the world. One is agile and a great dribbler, the other is potent and a great assist man. And they're both great finishers. But like han said, this partnership is not clicking because Pato is being misused, either by Allegri or by his own will. He should play less on the wings and more inside the box, where he's deadly.

Ibra is not a target man, he never was and never will be. Of course, due to his universal characteristics, he's capable of playing any role up front, but it'd be a shame to restrict all his talent by playing as a pure striker. He knows this, and he's been constantly playing as second striker since his arrival, with lots of assits and tracking back. He's been doing his job perfectly, and I have nothing to say to him about that.

Exactly. Pato is just not the same. That dribbling of his seems to have disappeared. And there seems no improvement in his passing.

It's important that he works hard. Let's not forget that he was our spearhead last season and the season before out of necessity.

Boriello was our spearhead last season, Pato was played as a winger. It worked because Dinho usually provided him that long diagonal ball from the left that Pato could catch his marker out and run onto from his wide position, he only played as a real striker under Carlo in the xmas tree, any other time he's been placed out of position, simple

Borriello was no spearhead, he was our Heskey.

Hmm..now that's a thought. Sell Pato to Chelsea for Anelka+ 30 million.

Talk is cheap.

It doesn't mean anything much true. Most footballers say that, "I'll love to close out my career here.." of course there is a T&C apply. Namely they keep getting fat paychecks, getting to play a lot and getting to win a lot.

Nothing to get too worked up or down about.

It just means he is happy at present. FWIW I hope he stays. A little more patience and he can something pretty awesome.

I actually think that's the perfect answer. Indeed, why not? Footballers don't care, we care... there is a chance he will stay here till the end... why not?

He'll stay so long as we do well. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but his attitude stinks, I find him to be a stroppy little kid at times. Fortunately we're winning and doing well right now so he'll likely want to stay. SO long as we keep that up he's ours.

+1.

I don't think you can say his attitude stinks just like that, without bringing a valid reason for it. now what is it? what makes you say it?

Come on, I know you're his biggest fan on here and all, but how can you not see how petulant he is? When things don't go his way he gets in such a mood in the field. There's been a few ocassions in the past couple of seasons where things haven't gone his way so he's kicked out at a defender.

To be honest I don't see any relation between these posts! his attitude on the pitch is certainly not the best, but what's that got anything to do with him saying "why not see out my career at Milan"?

For the record, I think he will stay as long as we don't sell him. in other words I can't see him doing a Sheva...

Huh?

*In post 1 I mention his attitude stinks.
*You ask why I think he has a bad attitude.
*In post 2 I explain why I think he has a bad attitude.

Basically, Pato is someone who's only happy when things are going well, on or off the pitch. When he's doing well he seems fine. When things aren't going well he's like a little girl. I imagine that's the way he is off the field too. Didn't he already consider leaving 18 months or so ago?

My +1 was for dst's post. I hate kurt...even when he's right. Kurt is a little girl.


I don't think he'll stay as long as we don't sell him. Another year of playing as much as he has next season and I think he'll put in a transfer request.

I worry a bit that the two years when we was our number 1 striker might have elevated his ego more than his skills. I hope to God I'm wrong.

Tbh. it's pretty much impossible to know what will happen, you have absolutely no basis tellin he'll stay and not do the Sheva thing again and we also cannot say the opposite. We're just bound to watch and wait.

But it's funny how much you like him; you ensured yourself with a illusionary sentence that if ever Pato leaves, he won't be the bad guy, Milan will be the 'bad corporation' that sells away it's goods. Haha

What I meant is that just because he has a little girl's attitude (as you say it) doesn't necessarily mean he will 100% leave Milan as soon as things don't go well anymore.

And I can't see how you can possibly imply that things are going so well for him at the moment with all these injuries and poor performances and criticisms. if he's acting like a little girl, I'm not seeing anything.


Correct me if I'm wrong but he hasn't played much mainly because of his injuries not because he's been frozen out of the XI or anything.


Firstly, I said I cannot see it that way - I didn't pass it as a fact or anything. am I not allowed to have an opinion?

Secondly, why do you put words in my mouth?! who said anything about Milan being The Bad Corporation?

He's been fit for sometime now. Almost a month and that a Cassano who's still not fit starts worries me. I think the reasons for his not playing in the past 2 weeks are purely tactical. And I'm okay with it.

He's not the finished product. In fact our forward line has the correct hierarchy. Pato is to us what Hernandez is to Man U. A talent to be nourished further for the next 1-2 years and then he can take over from Ibra...to forge his own legend.

In a way being forced to become a primary striker before his time may have impacted his growth and even his fitness.

Oh gosh are we defensive today. Everyone's allowed to have an opinion, you really know that. But say, what's the basis of your opinion. You asked Kurt to explain his opinion, but you didn't explain why you put faith in the scenario you mentioned.


No, you said he's gonna leave if we want that to happen. Like it's that simple; I had a flashback when Kaka was leaving and everyone was so mad why the bad Milan forsake the poor saint Kaka.

Thoroughly agreed on everything. Pato is one of my favorite Milan players, but being rational, he's a brat. His sloppy attitude gets to me every time. You'd think at the age of 21 he would have reached a certain maturity, but to me his behavior seems even more childish than when we signed him. I've said it many times, and I'll say it again: he needs to get his head out of his butt. He could easily be the best player in the world if he just puts more determination and spirit of sacrifice on a continuous basis.

Agree Jack, the problem is Hernandez is showing slightly more promise at the moment, especially with the limited opportunities he gets.

I'm still wanting to stick by Pato, long-serving members on this board know my initial thoughts on him and I was won over a little while ago from what I saw. He's still only 21, I know from personal experience you are not 100% mature yet! I'd probably be a little more concerned if he didn't show any fire, that's how some young players show it. It can look like petulance but in reality it's commitment, competitiveness etc. Just look at all the majority of big names when they were young (and even now). CR7, Rooney, Ribery, Balotelli, Cassano, Drogba, Zlatan etc.

Hopefully, we will begin to see that player begin to emerge back because mark my words a firing, on-form, fully-fit Pato is as good as anyone.

I think people forget just how young Pato still is because he's been with us for a considerable time now. He's still only 21, to label him anything atm is just premature

Pato is awesome. Everyone shut up. I'm right.

You're not wrong, I'll give you that, Max. You. Are. Not. Wrong. Here.

Well, he's already exhibited a bit of bad judgement off the pitch with the whole webcam episode.

As for his attitude, there was probably no shortage of him being told "you're the greatest" in regards to his playing ability when growing up.

Definitely. he looked like he could handle it alright when he was younger, but these days the pressure of it all seems to have caught up with him.



The basis of my opinion? faith. you can't explain faith



So you're saying when a player is sold, it's either the club being The Bad Corporation, or the player Doing A Sheva? always an either-or situation? I disagree.


And failed marriage!

Mentioning that webcam episode has gotten really old, btw. another famous Selecao star did it too, Dani Alves IINM, and he was way older than the teenage Pato. but no one, not even in Barca communities, seems to care. but when it comes to Pato, it's been mentioned 987349536592387698 times on this board alone. like we are all saints ourselves. pathetic.



I think we all can agree on that.

I have never shown my pee-pee on webcam to anyone. I don't think it would have mattered how hot the person on the other end was! Just what the hell have you been doing that makes this act so par-for-the-course.

What has Pato done? I never heard anything?

Hilarious. Which rock have you been hiding under?



Ask Zed.D. That story of Pato is his favourite bed time story.

He had sex with Berlusconi to the sound of Chocolate Rain! Robinho could be seen dancing in the background.

You two are....

He is 21 for pete's sake. Things off the pitch have not been great for him in recent months. Last two seasons injuries have plagued him, give the boy a break.

You have to remember that when things were going well we had a settled team, with Kaka feeding him great balls and Pato did his job to great effect. Now, we do not have a settled team there are changes every game, he has just come back from another injury, he has ibra, robinho and cassano as competition, his friend (and i expect idol ronnie has gone) it must feel like a bit of a whirlwind change for him. Add to that, that he "appears" to be asked to play out of position, either that or he just cant stand to be near Ibra (thats up to allegri to sort!!!)

He is at a point in his life where he needs nurturing more than ever, and the faith of his coach, team mates and fans more than ever. For people to start jumping on his back with the knives out i find sickening, two more years of support and understanding when he picks the wrong pass, makes the wrong decision on the pitch, he will be very near the finished world class striker that we all know he can be.

Give the boy a break FFS!

Excellent post, Boban. Agreed wholeheartedly, particularly the two points that he is being played out of position and things between him and Ibra are not quite dandy (or so it seems). Whenever he has taken the field without the Swede, his performances have been comparatively better.

Someone who has an egos as big as Ibra, I really don't see him playing second fiddle to anyone, surely not a bucktooth who wore the number 80, and definitely not a 21 year-old that is still finding his feet. Don't get me wrong, I like Ibra as much as the next guy and appreciate what he does for us, but the guy likes to be the biggest fish in the pond - he was at inter, and he was not at Barca. I do hope that is not the case and my perception is proven nugatory, but it sure does seems to be the case.

You mean when the quickening begins

Haha,...the injuries, that's what makes me worry most.

Yes and the strops.

I don't expect him to score 20 goals a season when he's playing as wing forward. But he's at the age when he should realise that sometimes for the good of the team, he needs to put his personal glory aside and graft. He might go 10 games before he even gets a whiff at goal, but if the team gets 30 points in that time he's done a good job.

If we could have merged Pato's talent and Dirk Kuyt's mentality we'd have the best young striker in the world.

Remember Eto'o saying he was playing as a virtual fullback last season but it was worth it?