I know a full international team is made of a a few players from various 'generations' of the Under 21s, but the Italian team at the last U21 Championsip was embarassingly bad, so I think they'll struggle for the next 6/8 years, unless some of these players drastically improve - Pretty much only Chiellini that was even worth mentioning, Aquilani was okay too.

So an embarrassingly bad team drew 3-3 with the England U21s in the first big game at the new Wembley?

I was rather impressed with the U23s (who we'll see again at the Olympics) - except the strikers. In fairness to them, however, the first two choices were hurt.

The U19s, so I'm told, are where the real talent is. These guys will play in the final phase of the Euro U19 tournament later on this summer.

That's not what total football is.


There is De Rossi, Aquilani, Buffon, Cassano, Chiellini, Balotelli to build a team around. We'll see...

What is total football, a defender playing as a striker?! please!

It's all about departments in my opinion, defence-midfield-attack , the midfielders cover for the defenders and the attackers for the midfielders, and that's what the 70's Brazil were doing, since everyone goes for the attack other players have to cover for them or swap positions if you prefer ... of course they never came out and said that they invented a new and entertaining football!

That's what it is... but honestly... where was that in 70's Brazil?? I can't say I've seen many games of them but this was not done in any of those games. That Brazil in my opinion was just a great attacking team.

They were an attacking team but if you attack like they did you leave space behind and other players have to come back to cover for them, the thing happens naturally they just don't talk about it or name it, how many times Pele was playing in the midfield and Socrates as a DM/CB ...

The Dutch team with MVB and co. Now that was a team !! The Dutch trinity

There's great cover-up in football today too but there's no total football.

Exactly, it's not total football because we don't call it that way, but if take a close look you see that it's exactly the definition of total football, especially up front (the permutations between the striker and wingers, Barcelona, la Roma and many other team play like that.

I never said the England Under 21s were any good though? What happened at the European Championships last summer? They went out in the group stages, in a relatively weak group involving England and Serbia. I only really rated Chiellini and Aquilani from that bunch.. and I don't know of any other players around the ages of 21/23 who're coming through that can really step into a starting role at the next World Cup - Italy won't be able to rely on Toni, Inzaghi and Del Piero up front, that's for sure.

Kurt you doubt the ability of next generation of Italian players. Italy won the recent U23 tournament and that squad did not even include Acquafresca, Rossi, Montolivio, Criscito and Santacroce among established stars such as Nocerino, Giovinco, Cigarini, De Silvestre etc etc etc

Exactly!?? My point was that certain characteristics might confuse when it comes to the status of a subject... I mean that while there's great cover-up in football today that does not mean there's 'Total Football' (the way Cruijff meant it) played from any team... same with 70's Brazil. In my opinion their football was distinctively different to Cruijff's Holland's football.

Anyway... I don't see us getting anywhere with this so there's no point going on.

Forgive me for not getting excited about a tournement that involved Chile, Japan, USA and the Ivory Coast. Did Holland and France even take any of their decent players either?

Who would they take, Gomis!??

us 8 - 0 barbados

i know it's barbados...but man...8-0

If memory serves, the French did field a relatively strong lineup for the Toulon tournament. I'm with whoearthepatriots on this one: the kids were good and half the 'first team' for that age group wasn't even there. What I understand from the bits and pieces I see about the U19 and U17 age groups indicates that there are some pretty remarkable talents in those ages. So really, I'm not too terribly worried about Italy's future. (especially since in about 6 years, young Christian Maldini should hopefully start showing up in the U19s. if he can slide tackle as well as his kid brother, we'll be in good shape)

I think it's difficult to project further than 6 years into the future, as the players that will be coming into the NTs at that point will only be around 16 now. And it's hard to say how these players will fit into a top league at that age. I think all the usual suspects will still probably be at the top though.

What Cruijff was all about the movement (I'm a winger but move to the centre to disturb the balance of the other team) in fact it's not Cruijff who supposedly invented total football but Ajax school. But you're probably right , this is going nowhere ...



No, France's player were actually the real U21 while the other nations field up there Olympics team (that's why they were always beaten physically), so technically it wasn't their strongest line up ... I think their Olympic team was playing a tournament in Holland, in fact I saw a game between France and Holland (ended 2-0 for the French) at the same time as the Toulon tournament!

No one knows what'll happen in the future. Just sit down and watch it happen...


I guess we've been talking about different things all along. I'm not asking who invented it, I'm just saying that Cruijff's Holland played the... total 'Total Football'! 70's Brazil had some aspects of it in their game but if the former is what is then the latter is not what it is... does that make sense?

No!

From Cruijff definition of total football it seems to me that nowadays everyone plays that way, and especially the 70's Brazil!

Oh and I know you weren't talking about who invented it, I just wanted to say that because the aggorant Cruijff thinks he did and always seems to take credit for it

Some results from last night (and the night before).

Uruguay 6 – 0 Peru
Forlan 8' [1-0]
Forlan 38' (pen.) [2-0]
Forlan 57' [3-0]
Bueno 61' [4-0]
Bueno 69' [5-0]
Abreu 90' [6-0]


Bolivia 4 – 2 Paraguay
Botero 23' [1-0]
García 25' [2-0]
Santa Cruz 66' [2-1]
Botero 70' [3-1]
Moreno Martins 76' [4-1]
Valdez 82' [4-2]

Ecuador 0 – 0 Colombia

Brazil 0 – 0 Argentina

Bolivia beat Paraguay...? And 4-2 at that... What a shame. I'm a fan of Santa Cruz. He is too good for them.

(But didn't Paraguay recently beat Brazil?)

Yes, with 10 men as well.



-Top 4 teams qualify straight for the 2010 World Cup Finals
-5th placed team has a two-legged playoff vs CONCACAF team (North/Central America)

That makes this result even harder to bear.

Australia are playing at home to China at the moment, 25 minutes to go, China lead 1-0..

Penalty to China.. and he put it wide!

Australia are already through and some of their first team players didn't play including Mark Schwarzer.




Iraq need a win or a draw to go through to the next stage later tonight

??? So soon?

Yes, they qualified from the Asia region this time around. Which for a team like Australia is easy as anything.

That means Kalac was on goal?

But..do they ahave to play 2 more matches with one South American squad (5th)?

So am I. He easily slides into my my Top 10 favorite player's list. The problem is only Valdez and him are worth their place in the Paraguay side.

I have been a fan of him ever since the first time I saw him play for Bayern and that was many years ago. The kid was special you could tell. His dribbling, ball control, eye for goal... He could have turned out to be a world class forward if he was not hampered by injuries every other day. It was really sad to see him get older and older and hardly ever get some consistent play time. But I'm glad he proved his worth in Blackburn. He is too good for them too, but I think it's a trade off he has to accept because of his constant injuries.

No. The 5th South American team has a playoff with a team from the North/Central American regions now.

Exactly. I've been a fan of him since the turn of the century (2000-2001), much before his days at Bayern. He's one of those exotic players in an average team. I remember Santa Cruz saying Milan was his dream club, and he'd welcome a call from Milan, and of course no one heard. What we got was Oliveria and another season of Gila.

We should have tried and spent 10 or so million on him, and played him when our first choice attack was injured. Which was more than half of the season. Result? UEFA Cup is a reality. Would he been a top choice? No. But still he isn't over rated, and could have improved a ton playing in the Milan system.

Oh, well, dream mode off.

no he has retired.

Didn't really know where to post it..

Carlos Queiroz has left the assistant manager position at United to become the new Portugal head coach.

I have a very low opinion on Queiroz. It's a bad choice for Portugal.

- Moved.

With the recent trouble in Georgia, and the WCQs coming up soon, is there a possibility they will have to play their home games in a different country?

I think the Dinamo Tbilisi-Austria Vienna match has been cancelled or something like that. But yes, for sure.

I think it will be over by then

Germany have announced their call ups for the August 20 friendly v. Belgium(link):

Tor: Rene Adler (Bayer Leverkusen) , Robert Enke (Hannover 96)
Abwehr: Christoph Metzelder (Real Madrid), Philipp Lahm (Bayern München), Marcell Jansen (Bayern München), Clemens Fritz (Werder Bremen), Serdar Tasci (VfB Stuttgart), Heiko Westermann (Schalke 04)
Mittelfeld: Michael Ballack (FC Chelsea), Thomas Hitzlsperger (VfB Stuttgart), Simon Rolfes (Bayer Leverkusen), Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen), Bastian Schweinsteiger (Bayern München), Piotr Trochowski (Hamburger SV), Jermaine Jones (Schalke 04), Marko Marin (Borussia Mönchengladbach), Lukas Podolski (Bayern München)
Angriff: Miroslav Klose (Bayern München), Mario Gomez (VfB Stuttgart), Kevin Kuranyi (Schalke 04), Patrick Helmes (Bayer Leverkusen)

La Palma, isn't Marin the kid there's been a good bit of talk about?

Other national teams should be announcing call ups in coming days. Italy will announce their callups on the 16th for their friendly v Austria on the 20th.

Yes, he's only 19 years old and is a huge prospect for the creativity department in the NT. A tricky winger with good vision. But he's a bit too weak IMO. Just 1,70 tall and a lightweight. He has to improve there. An even bigger prospect is Bayern Toni Kroos. Probably the best U21 playmaker in the world. Klinsmann is a huge fan of him and it's possible he'll enjoy his breakthrough this year.
Rene Adler...he's the future. But what bothers me is that we didn't have a WC CB since Jürgen Kohler retired from international football. That's a huge problem.

Here are Spain's call ups:

Spain squad
Goalkeepers: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid CF), Pepe Reina (Liverpool FC).

Defenders: Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid CF), Carles Puyol (FC Barcelona), Fernando Amorebieta (Athletic Club Bilbao), Andoni Iraola (Athletic Club Bilbao), Raúl Albiol (Valencia CF), Juanito (Real Betis Balompié), Joan Capdevila (Villarreal CF), Fernando Navarro (RCD Mallorca).

Midfielders: Marcos Senna (Villarreal CF), Xabi Alonso (Liverpool FC), Xavi Hernández (FC Barcelona), Diego Capel (Sevilla FC), Andrés Iniesta (FC Barcelona), Rubén De la Red (Getafe CF), David Silva (Valencia CF), Santi Cazorla (Villarreal CF).

Forwards: David Villa (Valencia CF), Daniel Güiza (RCD Mallorca), Bojan Krkić (FC Barcelona), Fernando Torres (Liverpool FC).

Here are Portugal's call ups from the Portuguese FA's site. They've listed players by club.

Atletico Madrid: Simão;
Chesea FC: Bosingwa, Deco, Paulo Ferreira e Ricardo Carvalho;
Dinamo de Moscovo: Danny;
FC Porto: Bruno Alves e Raúl Meireles;
Galatasaray SK: Fernando Meira;
Málaga CF: Duda;
Manchester United FC: Nani;
Real Madrid CF: Pepe;
SC Braga: Eduardo;
SL Benfica: Carlos Martins, Nuno Gomes e Quim;
Sporting CP: João Moutinho;
SV Werder Bremen: Hugo Almeida;
US Lecce SPA: Antunes;
Valência CF: Manuel Fernandes e Miguel;
VFL Bochum 1848: Daniel Fernandes.

No Ricardo!
Therefore we're twice as strong as we were 2 months ago.

Here are the call ups from the Netherlands (they play Russia in a friendly)

Netherlands squad
Goalkeepers: Maarten Stekelenburg (AFC Ajax), Henk Timmer (Feyenoord).

Defenders: Khalid Boulahrouz (VfB Stuttgart), Tim de Cler (Feyenoord), Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord), John Heitinga (Club Atlético de Madrid), Joris Mathijsen (Hamburger SV), André Ooijer (Blackburn Rovers FC).

Midfielders: Ibrahim Afellay (PSV Eindhoven), Mark van Bommel (FC Bayern München), Orlando Engelaar (FC Schalke 04), Nigel de Jong (Hamburger SV), Rafael van der Vaart (Real Madrid CF), Demy de Zeeuw (AZ Alkmaar).

Forwards: Klaas Jan Huntelaar (AFC Ajax), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool FC), Robin van Persie (Arsenal FC), Arjen Robben (Real Madrid CF), Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink (Celtic FC).

(Gosh, Van Bommel, I guess it helps some when your father-in-law is coaching the NT).

And here's the Czech squad:
Czech Republic squad
Goalkeepers: Petr Čech (Chelsea FC), Daniel Zítka (RSC Anderlecht).

Defenders: Marek Jankulovski (AC Milan), David Rozehnal (S.S. Lazio), Tomáš Ujfaluši (Club Atlético de Madrid), Zdeněk Pospěch (FC København), Zdeněk Grygera (Juventus), Michal Kadlec (AC Sparta Praha), Radoslav Kováč (FC Spartak Moskva).

Midfielders: David Jarolím (Hamburger SV), Jaroslav Plašil (CA Osasuna), Jan Polák (RSC Anderlecht), Marek Matějovský (Reading FC), Jan Rajnoch (FK Mladá Boleslav), Radek Šírl (FC Zenit St. Petersburg).

Forwards: Milan Baroš (Olympique Lyonnais), Václav Svěrkoš (FC Baník Ostrava), Michal Papadopulos (FK Mladá Boleslav).


FORZA JANKU!

Bouma should be there!

I think it's England that the Czechs are playing isn't it? We have a whole summer off, then as soon as the league starts up again, they disrupt it with friendlies.