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han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 16 2015, 11:06 AM) *
I see a lot of talking, but one question remains. Is Jackson Martinez worth the money? How good is the guy?

I personally don't think he's worth as much as we're paying (if it even happens that is)

All the deals that we were apparently close to sealing just a couple of days ago are now not even all that probable anymore

Looks like another typical Milan mercato at this point

No wonder they appointed a mid-level coach...

Mihajlovic official btw
Fillipo Simone
Let's not get ahead of ourselves with such conclusions Han.

Nay to Mihajlović, we've signed another hack. This time an Interista one.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 16 2015, 01:19 PM) *
Realistically speaking, how much do you think there is available for this summer? And due to FFP how much of it can we spend? Yes it's been relaxed but considering all of our losses, I can't imagine that we can do whatever we want

I'm hopeful, but what worries me is that Galliani is the one that's going to be left with this money, and tbh, I don't trust that he'll make the right choices


FFP has not been relaxed, it is being proposed. Yet to be perfected from their side. No, we can not do whatever we want otherwise we would be bidding for Ronaldo and Messi.

Galliani is a choice Berlusconi first made in the 80's. The new group of investors confirmed him to remain in 2015. The way I see it, the people who are handing him the money trust him to make the right choices. That is all that counts smile.gif And frankly speaking he is the best at what he does, time will tell.
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jun 16 2015, 12:10 PM) *
FFP has not been relaxed, it is being proposed. Yet to be perfected from their side. No, we can not do whatever we want otherwise we would be bidding for Ronaldo and Messi.

Galliani is a choice Berlusconi first made in the 80's. The new group of investors confirmed him to remain in 2015. The way I see it, the people who are handing him the money trust him to make the right choices. That is all that counts smile.gif And frankly speaking he is the best at what he does, time will tell.

You really believe that we would have he kind of money required to get Messi or Ronaldo in a hypothetical world where FFP doesn't exist?

I don't think we have that kind of budget tbh. At most I think we have 200m to spend. And that's an optimistic figure

As for Galliani, I would agree with you if this was 10 years ago, but frankly, nowadays, in 2015, he is far from being the best at what he does. Moratta at Juve has done wonders and I wouldn't call him a transfer guru or a particularly savvy kind of guy

We've spent more money on our current team than Juve has over the years and while we're languishing in mid-table, they're 4 times consecutive Serie A champions, CL finalists and Coppa Italia winners...

I think it's Silvio that trusts him, Bee and his investors aren't really footballing experts, plus they're not majority share holders either so they don't have much say in the matter
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 16 2015, 12:00 PM) *
Let's not get ahead of ourselves with such conclusions Han.

Nay to Mihajlović, we've signed another hack. This time an Interista one.

Well, so far, nothing has shown that things have changed tbh.

Yes we're being linked with everyone under the sun but that's mostly just paper talk.

And agreed on Miha, but I'll give him a chance, just as I did with Leo, Allegri, Seedorf and Pippo before him. He deserves that at least
han2503


Barbara does not look happy... biggrin.gif
han2503
Ibra and Raiola are in Doha right now meeting with the PSG president to discuss his future at PSG

Italian media saying he's there to discuss a contract termination, French media saying it's to discuss a renewal.

I think it's more probable that it is the former rather than the latter, why would he go all the way to Qatar for a simple renewal? Wouldn't he have done that easily in Paris?

Also, his official twitter account has unfollowed the PSG account....

So who knows, could be looking good for us at this point. Don't want to get my hopes up though
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 16 2015, 12:36 PM) *
Well, so far, nothing has shown that things have changed tbh.

Yes we're being linked with everyone under the sun but that's mostly just paper talk.

And agreed on Miha, but I'll give him a chance, just as I did with Leo, Allegri, Seedorf and Pippo before him. He deserves that at least


Paper talk? They said Ancelotti was an objective, we proposed but he declined. They said Martinez was an objective, we signed him. They said Ibra was an objective, he's in talks to be released from PSG. They said Kondogbia was an objective, Galliani has already met with Monaco for him. Doesn't seem like usual paper talk BS to me. You should really direct your negativity someplace else, han. biggrin.gif
milanbuf88
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 16 2015, 03:32 PM) *
Paper talk? They said Ancelotti was an objective, we proposed but he declined. They said Martinez was an objective, we signed him. They said Ibra was an objective, he's in talks to be released from PSG. They said Kondogbia was an objective, Galliani has already met with Monaco for him. Doesn't seem like usual paper talk BS to me. You should really direct your negativity someplace else, han. biggrin.gif


Don't be too harsh with him X. After this god awful season and the heartless mediocrity we've been subjected to for years I can't blame the guy for skepticism. Personally I'm trying to stay as neutral as possible. As we've seen in previous summers, a signing isn't official until we see him put pen to paper on the official website.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 16 2015, 07:32 PM) *
Paper talk? They said Ancelotti was an objective, we proposed but he declined. They said Martinez was an objective, we signed him. They said Ibra was an objective, he's in talks to be released from PSG. They said Kondogbia was an objective, Galliani has already met with Monaco for him. Doesn't seem like usual paper talk BS to me. You should really direct your negativity someplace else, han. biggrin.gif

Actually, we have not signed Martinez, Ibra is up in the air, and we've backtracked on Kondogbia.

Galliani was supposed to go meet Monaco this week but cancelled his meetings

Sorry to sound negative, but until I see things actually happen officially, I won't get my hopes up, we've been burned one too many times by Galliani and Co.
han2503
QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jun 16 2015, 08:42 PM) *
Don't be too harsh with him X. After this god awful season and the heartless mediocrity we've been subjected to for years I can't blame the guy for skepticism. Personally I'm trying to stay as neutral as possible. As we've seen in previous summers, a signing isn't official until we see him put pen to paper on the official website.

This.

Martinez and his agent going back and forth like they're bi-polar isn't what I call a done deal.

I would very much like to get excited as well, but until I see something concrete happen I'm going to stay on my fence.

So far, the only concrete move we've made is Ely, and let's face it. That screams typical Milan rather than what we're hoping will be a new ambitious Milan.

The Mihajlovic appointment doesn't scream ambition either. Let's be honest here

X-Offender
It's a done deal, let's not get anal about it. Porto's president confirmed it, his agent too and so did Milan Channel with one of their special announcements. Ibra's in the air, no-one said he's ours already, but that's far from the "usual paper talk" you claim these news to be. And I haven't read anything about us backtracking from Kondogbia. Only that Monaco want 35 million whereas we have offered 27. Again, the deal could very well debunk, but our interest in him is real and not just pure speculation.

Also, you seem to forget something very important that distinguishes this signing campaign fron the rest: we have new owners, and a shitload of money to spend. So, chill out and stop acting like a friggin' emo! tongue.gif
X-Offender
Lyon and Sevilla are interested in Rami
Genoa want El Shaarawy on loan
We might be close to signing Kevin-Prince Boateng now that he's a free agent
Mihajlovic is having dinner with Silvio at Arcore tonight. Hummels and Kondogbia the main topics of discussion

Source: Mediaset
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 16 2015, 08:59 PM) *
It's a done deal, let's not get anal about it. Porto's president confirmed it, his agent too and so did Milan Channel with one of their special announcements. Ibra's in the air, no-one said he's ours already, but that's far from the "usual paper talk" you claim these news to be. And I haven't read anything about us backtracking from Kondogbia. Only that Monaco want 35 million whereas we have offered 27. Again, the deal could very well debunk, but our interest in him is real and not just pure speculation.

Also, you seem to forget something very important that distinguishes this signing campaign fron the rest: we have new owners, and a shitload of money to spend. So, chill out and stop acting like a friggin' emo! tongue.gif

Let's see...

Cissokho: Official to Milan
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Bad teeth

Suazo: Official to Milan
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Chooses Inter

Like I said we've been down this road enough times for me to have learned my lesson by now. And these guys were actually announced as official by Milan's official outlets, not just reports.

I seriously hope I'm wrong, but again, we have a definite MO. And yes, we have money, but I don't think it's a stratospheric budget either. Hummels, Turan, etc? Never going to happen imo and that's what I mean by paper talk

And look we're linked to f@cking Prince Boateng! He hasn't been good in over 4 years now, terrible attitude, huge ego, thinks he's a star when he's not, FIRED from his previous club. Is this the type of personality we want to bring into the dressing room?

Like I said, I'm hoping that I'm wrong, and I am optimistic and excited, but I don't want to get sucked into things and then be let down like usual
X-Offender
Then going by that logic you should dismiss the Boateng news as just paper talk as well. wink.gif
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 16 2015, 09:51 PM) *
Then going by that logic you should dismiss the Boateng news as just paper talk as well. wink.gif

That's one I believe actually. He's a free agent, so a perfect Galliani signing

Anyway, Gazzetta saying Ibra will stay in Paris
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 16 2015, 03:33 PM) *
You really believe that we would have he kind of money required to get Messi or Ronaldo in a hypothetical world where FFP doesn't exist?


No, I was being sarcastic laugh.gif

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 16 2015, 03:33 PM) *
I don't think we have that kind of budget tbh. At most I think we have 200m to spend. And that's an optimistic figure


I do not know is the 'right' answer. Assuming out of the blue, just because you have new owners is where you get disappointed han tongue.gif

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 16 2015, 03:33 PM) *
As for Galliani, I would agree with you if this was 10 years ago, but frankly, nowadays, in 2015, he is far from being the best at what he does. Moratta at Juve has done wonders and I wouldn't call him a transfer guru or a particularly savvy kind of guy

We've spent more money on our current team than Juve has over the years and while we're languishing in mid-table, they're 4 times consecutive Serie A champions, CL finalists and Coppa Italia winners...

I think it's Silvio that trusts him, Bee and his investors aren't really footballing experts, plus they're not majority share holders either so they don't have much say in the matter


Galliani is the CEO and nothing has changed from that aspect. You do not have to force it, it is clear that Galliani is here to stay.
X-Offender
Looks like Ibra won't be happening. He wants to respect his contract till the end. Oh well, we tried. But at least now we can focus on someone younger.

Also, Galliani should travel tomorrow to Monaco for Kondogbia.

And Gattuso has rejected Miha's offer of being his vice. He'll coach Novara instead.

/Mediaset
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jun 17 2015, 06:23 AM) *
Galliani is the CEO and nothing has changed from that aspect. You do not have to force it, it is clear that Galliani is here to stay.

Too bad, because he's a huge part of the reason for why we've fallen so far
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 17 2015, 11:16 AM) *
Looks like Ibra won't be happening. He wants to respect his contract till the end. Oh well, we tried. But at least now we can focus on someone younger.

Also, Galliani should travel tomorrow to Monaco for Kondogbia.

And Gattuso has rejected Miha's offer of being his vice. He'll coach Novara instead.

/Mediaset

Without Ibra we'll have to rethink the entire strategy imo, we can't rely on him to create everything, so imo, 2 creative mids are a must or it's a bust for us next season. Once again.

Hopefully Kondogbia can be wrapped up ASAP as Arsenal are also interested. And I seriously don't want us to go for the Marseille duo (Imbula and Mendy). Imbula doesn't look anything special imo (let Inter take him) and Mendy is another Taiwo waiting to happen, only this time he wouldn't be free
Fillipo Simone
We should just sit and wait. Go step by step. No need to get into hyper-fatalistic mode yet.
nuh
do you guys have any idea whats going on with martinez? I just read that he again dinied coming here
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 17 2015, 11:34 AM) *
Without Ibra we'll have to rethink the entire strategy imo, we can't rely on him to create everything, so imo, 2 creative mids are a must or it's a bust for us next season. Once again.

Hopefully Kondogbia can be wrapped up ASAP as Arsenal are also interested. And I seriously don't want us to go for the Marseille duo (Imbula and Mendy). Imbula doesn't look anything special imo (let Inter take him) and Mendy is another Taiwo waiting to happen, only this time he wouldn't be free


Mediaset say Ibra still wants to come and that things might stretch a while during the course of the summer.

Also, Galliani apparently called Inter and told them we're not interested in Imbula and Mendy.

QUOTE (nuh @ Jun 17 2015, 12:19 PM) *
do you guys have any idea whats going on with martinez? I just read that he again dinied coming here


Haven't read anything about it. But maybe he just wants to focus on the Copa America for now.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 17 2015, 12:29 PM) *
Mediaset say Ibra still wants to come and that things might stretch a while during the course of the summer.

Also, Galliani apparently called Inter and told them we're not interested in Imbula and Mendy.

Yeah, I do believe that Ibra has his heart set on returning, which is what's keeping me hopeful that he'll be playing here next season.

I just don't want this Ibra thing to eclipse the entire mercato and other areas to be forgotten.

Let's hope that the Imbula/Mendy phone call rumour is right, neighter look all that good tbh and they'd cost a total of 28m if reports are to be believed

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 17 2015, 12:29 PM) *
Haven't read anything about it. But maybe he just wants to focus on the Copa America for now.

If that were the case he'd have said "No comment", what he did was drum up even more speculation as had he confirmed the Milan thing that would be that and reporters wouldn't be pestering him about where he'll be playing next season every time.

Don't know, but something about this entire thing does not sit well with me. And Martinez and his agent aren't doing anything to endear themselves with people, that's for sure.

Kind of get the feeling he's reluctant to come but there are no other concrete offers that he can pick instead
X-Offender
Mediaset says Dortmund want €35 million for Hummels and that's too much for us.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 17 2015, 10:45 PM) *
Mediaset says Dortmund want €35 million for Hummels and that's too much for us.

Can't see him wanting to come anyway
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 17 2015, 11:14 PM) *
Can't see him wanting to come anyway


Of course you can't.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 08:06 AM) *
Of course you can't.

And you can?

A top defender in his prime wanting to come to a Milan who finished mid-table twice in a row, with no European football in sight? Really, you're that optimistic?

And 35m now apparently is too much for one of the World's best defenders? When we supposedly had no trouble tabling that for a striker who's never played in a top league?

Sorry, but there IS something not quite right with what's going on in our mercato atm, so forgive me for being sceptical for now.

If we sign Martinez and Kondogbia this month I'll be the first to admit that I was being overly negative and suspicious of a management that has done some seriously terrible deals over the past decade that have lead us to where we are now.
han2503
Updates on the status of some current players:

Destro will be going back to Roma
De Jong is close to renewing his contract for 2 years
Chievo want Birsa and are willing to pay 1.5m for him (we should give THEM money for taking him imo)
SES could be sold or loaned to Genoa this summer, depending on who we buy


Expecting others like Pazzini, Cerci, Menez, Muntari, Zaccardo, Nocerino, Matri, Rami, Bocchetti and Bonera to be loaned/let go/sold/sent back to their clubs
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 18 2015, 08:58 AM) *
And you can?

A top defender in his prime wanting to come to a Milan who finished mid-table twice in a row, with no European football in sight? Really, you're that optimistic?

And 35m now apparently is too much for one of the World's best defenders? When we supposedly had no trouble tabling that for a striker who's never played in a top league?

Sorry, but there IS something not quite right with what's going on in our mercato atm, so forgive me for being sceptical for now.

If we sign Martinez and Kondogbia this month I'll be the first to admit that I was being overly negative and suspicious of a management that has done some seriously terrible deals over the past decade that have lead us to where we are now.


So, you're asking me why would a top defender want to sign for one of the most glorious clubs in football history, who have made it abundantly clear they want to heavily reinvest this summer in order to get back to the prime of European football? Gee, let me think about it...

Yes, I am that optimistic. Things finally seem to have taken a turn for the best for us after numerous shambolic seasons. We have new owners, fresh funds and we're very active on the market, much more than any other team at the moment. Forgive me for trying to stay positive.

And I don't understand what you mean by something not being quite right with our mercato. What do you expect, to sign 5-6 top players within the first week of June and call it a day? A good signing campaign needs caution and patience. There's two months and a half left for crying out loud! As Fillipo said, "there's no need to get into hyper-fatalistic mode just yet".
d'Arc.LP
Mercato according to Milan Channel: Milan wants a second striker, to play with Martinez, an important midfielder and later a central defender.

Mihajlovic is wanting Milan to buy Roberto Soriano from Sampdoria. [Mediaset]

Vitiello (MilanNews): Summit of the market on Tuesday in Arcore was also in terms of tactics. The formation chosen by the club is 4-3-1-2

Milan Channel has also confirmed that De Jong is close to signing a contract extension.

Milan Channel also confirms that Boateng won't return to Milan.

Milan have an agreement in principle with Monaco for Kondogbia for 27m+bonuses. Just missing the agreement with the player [Mediaset].

Calciomercato says Muntari will be confirmed, he will stay another year.

Libero - Milan, Borussia Dortmund for Hummels asking 35 million euro
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 12:50 PM) *
So, you're asking me why would a top defender want to sign for one of the most glorious clubs in football history, who have made it abundantly clear they want to heavily reinvest this summer in order to get back to the prime of European football? Gee, let me think about it...

Yes, I am that optimistic. Things finally seem to have taken a turn for the best for us after numerous shambolic seasons. We have new owners, fresh funds and we're very active on the market, much more than any other team at the moment. Forgive me for trying to stay positive.

And I don't understand what you mean by something not being quite right with our mercato. What do you expect, to sign 5-6 top players within the first week of June and call it a day? A good signing campaign needs caution and patience. There's two months and a half left for crying out loud! As Fillipo said, "there's no need to get into hyper-fatalistic mode just yet".

A club that has relied on that glorious history and nothing else for years and has been reduced to a mid-table side...

Hummels will have offers from other glorious European sides as well as money clubs. Either of which are better options than Milan for most players.

Like I said, it's not that I want to be overly negative and suspicious, but I cannot help it, until I see tangent proof that we are actually ambitious and ready to get back into it with a competitive squad, I'm not getting my hopes up. I've been let down enough times. So far, nothing has indicated this is the case for me. The Mihajlovic appointment shows where our ambitions lie.

If we start the season with a competitive squad that's good enough to not only get into the top 3 easily but challenge Juve as well, watch this space for me doing a shame dance and admitting to being wrong.

And once again, I don't think we're as active as you're saying. Juve have been active, not us. And that's not even taking clubs from other countries into account.

And personally, I'm not expecting everything to happen in June, but if we're finally really serious about becoming successful again, then I do expect that most of our moves be made as early as possible in the window so they have time to integrate into the squad. And not as has been the case in the past where we make our most important signings in the last week of the window when we've already played a league game.

When I say that something's not quite right it's as plain as that. The Martinez thing already stinks for me. There's something else going on there that we don't know about. Otherwise the player and his agent wouldn't have made those comments.

Also, Milan channel is apparently saying that in Mihajlovic and B&G's meeting they agreed the formation would be a 4-3-1-2, yet we're only after 1 important mid, who isn't even a creative one, plus apparently Miha wants Soriano, who imo is mediocre at best.

I think it's become the norm that in every window we bulk up the attacking department and neglect the other areas while signing a couple of cheap fixes. And if we're seriously playing a formation that is heavily reliant on having a creative midfield diamond, then that plan seriously sucks
Fillipo Simone
Han, I really think you should wait a bit. I think you create theories and thesis out of little more then just past experiences. And we're all Milan fans here, so we know how bad our management was or how many bad deals went trough. No need to repeat everything over and over again in advance. There will be time for it, plenty of time.
X-Offender
But you see, you're being too quick to jump the gun. You're basing all your pessimism on past experience, and I would totally be with you if Bee hadn't acquired 49% of the club, and us already offering the job to Carlo and €35 million to Porto for Jackson, all whilst going for the likes of Ibra and Kondogbia in the meanwhile. These for me are signs that something is changing, but change is gradual, and we're only in the very beginning. This re-foundation process could take a couple of years, so we have to be patient.

Milan Channel director Mauro Suma on the latest developments:

  • De Jong is very close to renewing.
  • We're not interested in Boateng.
  • The Kondogbia deal is of very high profile. The player costs a lot. Can't say whether Galliani will travel to Montecarlo these days, we'll have to wait and see.
  • I don't want to add anything more about Jackson Martinez. The player is busy with the Copa America, and he's not a Milan player yet. We'll see afterwards when he undergoes the medicals.
  • Negotiations about Ibra can get very unpredictable. Right now there aren't neither positive nor negative developments. In 2010, Milan didn't think Barça would have let him go in June, then things changed. The same might happen again with PSG this time around.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 18 2015, 02:27 PM) *
Han, I really think you should wait a bit. I think you create theories and thesis out of little more then just past experiences. And we're all Milan fans here, so we know how bad our management was or how many bad deals went trough. No need to repeat everything over and over again in advance. There will be time for it, plenty of time.

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself in my pessimism about all this, but I think it's better than to get overly excited and then let down.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 02:28 PM) *
But you see, you're being too quick to jump the gun. You're basing all your pessimism on past experience, and I would totally be with you if Bee hadn't acquired 49% of the club, and us already offering the job to Carlo and €35 million to Porto for Jackson, all whilst going for the likes of Ibra and Kondogbia in the meanwhile. These for me are signs that something is changing, but change is gradual, and we're only in the very beginning. This re-foundation process could take a couple of years, so we have to be patient.

Milan Channel director Mauro Suma on the latest developments:

  • De Jong is very close to renewing.
  • We're not interested in Boateng.
  • The Kondogbia deal is of very high profile. The player costs a lot. Can't say whether Galliani will travel to Montecarlo these days, we'll have to wait and see.
  • I don't want to add anything more about Jackson Martinez. The player is busy with the Copa America, and he's not a Milan player yet. We'll see afterwards when he undergoes the medicals.
  • Negotiations about Ibra can get very unpredictable. Right now there aren't neither positive nor negative developments. In 2010, Milan didn't think Barça would have let him go in June, then things changed. The same might happen again with PSG this time around.

Like I said, maybe I am jumping the gun, never said I wasn't or that my pessimism wasn't all that rational. It's not like there isn't a part of me that isn't excited for what might be. But at the moment that is a very small part as we have been burned before. And sure now there is the Bee money difference. But that money is being entrusted in the same hands that got us into this mess, and so far the "strategy" they're apparently going for doesn't give me much hope for a smart rebuild.

I'm willing to wait it out at least until mid-July to come to any concrete conclusions, but if by then we're still talking about hypotheticals, I think it would be safe to assume that nothing's really changed all that much for us

Thanks for the Milan channel updates. Not that Suma is all that reliable or in the know, but that's pretty much what's being said all around.

Also, sky saying that Muntari could stay now that Pippo has left...
X-Offender
Calciomercato.com says Galliani won't be attending Abate's marriage tomorrow because he's flying to Montecarlo to close the Kondogbia deal. There's already an agreement with Monaco for €30 million, and the player has been offered a 5-year contract of €4 million per season.
han2503
General question.

What do you think about the Kondogbia deal? Is it too much for a player who's relatively unknown? Chelsea reportedly want 25m for Oscar and Juve are in for him. Just to put it into perspective.

If we're keeping De Jong, I would have thought that bringing in a proper creative mid would have been more of a priority now. Hopefully there is another big signing in midfield as in the general scheme of things, Kondogbia won't add much in terms of diversity to our midfield.
acid911
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 18 2015, 09:23 PM) *
What do you think about the Kondogbia deal? Is it too much for a player who's relatively unknown? Chelsea reportedly want 25m for Oscar and Juve are in for him. Just to put it into perspective.

I say he's worth this price to keep Juventus away from singing him. sleep.gif I'd also like Oscar for 25m if we can, but Kondogbia is a beast of a player and can potentially lift our midfield to the next level. Allowing Juventus to sign him will simply make our task of winning Serie A all the more difficult.

So in that case he's worth the price. Sign him, and we can be set for the next four or five seasons.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 18 2015, 09:23 PM) *
If we're keeping De Jong, I would have thought that bringing in a proper creative mid would have been more of a priority now. Hopefully there is another big signing in midfield as in the general scheme of things, Kondogbia won't add much in terms of diversity to our midfield.

Hopefully there is, hopefully there are two. smile.gif Our midfield needs some serious work if we want to unlock the smaller teams that play a defensive game, and the bigger ones that pressure with quality. Against medium teams we'll be fine, as we have been, on and off through the past two years.

But look what happened to Juventus in the CL final when they lost the midfield battle.
han2503
QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 18 2015, 04:37 PM) *
I say he's worth this price to keep Juventus away from singing him. sleep.gif I'd also like Oscar for 25m if we can, but Kondogbia is a beast of a player and can potentially lift our midfield to the next level. Allowing Juventus to sign him will simply make our task of winning Serie A all the more difficult.

So in that case he's worth the price. Sign him, and we can be set for the next four or five seasons.


Hopefully there is, hopefully there are two. smile.gif Our midfield needs some serious work if we want to unlock the smaller teams that play a defensive game, and the bigger ones that pressure with quality. Against medium teams we'll be fine, as we have been, on and off through the past two years.

But look what happened to Juventus in the CL final when they lost the midfield battle.

Well Milan channel are saying that there will only be one important midfield signing. Which is worrying. I'm not saying there won't be other signings, but I'm expecting Baselli/Soriano signings next to Kondogbia

Midfield imo is the most important area of the pitch, if your defence is so so but your midfield is top notch, it will still protect that defence very well, if your attack is subpar but you have a stellar midfield, you're still very likely to score a lot of goals as that midfield is going to create a lot.

I don't want to see it once again get neglected just for us to sign 3 strikers and maybe one defender. It's simply sh!tty planning.

If midfield is going to be ignored, then Ibra is a must, he's the only player that I can think of who will make the fact that we don't have a particularly good midfield redundant.

What's the use of spending so much money on a player like Martinez if you're not going to give him the supply he needs to be prolific?
acid911
Totally agreed. king.gif
X-Offender
I think Kondogbia is a great talent that can become huge for us. Seen him a couple of times with Monaco, saw him against Albania, and I really want us to sign him. Even for €30 million. He's probably going to be used as a box-to-box mid like Pogba at Juve, so De Jong's permanence won't affect his signing.

But I do agree that we also need a top creative mid in there, and that can't be Craptolivo. Someone like Gündogan or Witsel or Isco is a must, otherwise we're fucked.
X-Offender
Oh, and if Ibra isn't coming, then playing 4-3-1-2 with the current trequartistas we have ain't gonna work. Either 1) we sign Ibra, 2) we sign a top trequartista, or 3) we keep playing 4-3-3.
milanbuf88
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 18 2015, 10:35 AM) *
Maybe I am getting ahead of myself in my pessimism about all this, but I think it's better than to get overly excited and then let down.


Like I said, maybe I am jumping the gun, never said I wasn't or that my pessimism wasn't all that rational. It's not like there isn't a part of me that isn't excited for what might be. But at the moment that is a very small part as we have been burned before. And sure now there is the Bee money difference. But that money is being entrusted in the same hands that got us into this mess, and so far the "strategy" they're apparently going for doesn't give me much hope for a smart rebuild.

I'm willing to wait it out at least until mid-July to come to any concrete conclusions, but if by then we're still talking about hypotheticals, I think it would be safe to assume that nothing's really changed all that much for us

Thanks for the Milan channel updates. Not that Suma is all that reliable or in the know, but that's pretty much what's being said all around.

Also, sky saying that Muntari could stay now that Pippo has left...


Han, I really think you are jumping the gun with your pessimism. Honestly X probably is too with his optimism haha. If we start next season with roughly the same squad we have now I'll be first in line behind you too say that we are headed for a **** midtable finish. It's simply too early to tell though. If we sign Martinez and Kondogbia before the end of the month it will be a very solid statement of intent from the management. Ideally we need a second, more creative, mid and a great CB but I also don't expect all of our problems to be solved in one window.
X-Offender
I honestly think a top CB, Kondogbia, a top creative mid and Jackson would be enough to strengthen the squad for this signing campaign. If Ibra is coming for free as well, even better, but with those four signings we could make a serious challenge for the second spot. Then we can strengthen even more next summer and then challenge for the Scudetto and possibly the CL. Like I said, this re-foundation process should be gradual and we must be patient. Can't expect to win everything immediately.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 05:54 PM) *
I think Kondogbia is a great talent that can become huge for us. Seen him a couple of times with Monaco, saw him against Albania, and I really want us to sign him. Even for €30 million. He's probably going to be used as a box-to-box mid like Pogba at Juve, so De Jong's permanence won't affect his signing.

But I do agree that we also need a top creative mid in there, and that can't be Craptolivo. Someone like Gündogan or Witsel or Isco is a must, otherwise we're fucked.

Hopefully he turns out as good as we're all expecting. and personally I don't think that he and De Jong should be played together. From what I've seen of Kondogbia, he doesn't have the type of attacking know how as Pogba does, he's more prone to recover the ball and make a simple to mid-difficulty level pass. Pogba is a true all-rounder, not to mention he doesn't have any defensive mids next to him but 2 CMs and a box-to-box guy in Vidal. I think this 2 DM system is outdated and doesn't work in today's football.

Agreed about the midfield

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 05:57 PM) *
Oh, and if Ibra isn't coming, then playing 4-3-1-2 with the current trequartistas we have ain't gonna work. Either 1) we sign Ibra, 2) we sign a top trequartista, or 3) we keep playing 4-3-3.

Agreed here as well.

Imo a creative CM is an absolute MUST for next season. But a proper trequartista is dependant on whether Ibra comes or not

However, I don't really agree about the 4-3-3 either. That formation needs a top-notch trio in midfield and at least decent - to - good wingers. We have neither a great midfield or decent wingers.

Menez has proved that he's too selfish and tactically undisciplined to play in that position, Cerci is a total dud, SES I think needs time and he's not going to get that with us, at this point I think it's best if we send him on loan where he can get back in form without too much pressure and expectations on him, plus I don't really see him as a winger anyway. Niang imo is simply far from good enough. Suso hasn't really shown us what he can do, but okay, we can include him as a possibility.

So even if we're technically loaded to the brim with wingers, none of them are good enough to be starters imo, especially for a system that is reliant on wingers.

I think 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-2-1 are best for us. Wingers in Serie A rarely work unless you're a counter attacking team.

QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jun 18 2015, 07:20 PM) *
Han, I really think you are jumping the gun with your pessimism. Honestly X probably is too with his optimism haha. If we start next season with roughly the same squad we have now I'll be first in line behind you too say that we are headed for a **** midtable finish. It's simply too early to tell though. If we sign Martinez and Kondogbia before the end of the month it will be a very solid statement of intent from the management. Ideally we need a second, more creative, mid and a great CB but I also don't expect all of our problems to be solved in one window.

Agreed, on all counts even the jumping the gun bit tongue.gif

And I don't expect all the problems we have to be solved in one window either. However, I expect Galliani to have a clear plan and targets this time around. Not just jump at whoever becomes available and bog down the team with useless signings simply because they were conveniently available.

I personally don't care about strikers, yet we're apparently going after 3(!!!), we have a terrible midfield, truly mid to bottom of the table quality, yet we're only going after 1 really good midfielder and he's not a creative one either. Defence is also an issue, we need at least 1 great CB, but still, for me, the midfield should be top priority and once again, it's very obviously not. Galliani and Silvio have an obsession with strikers and attackers in general. And that worries me

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 08:20 PM) *
I honestly think a top CB, Kondogbia, a top creative mid and Jackson would be enough to strengthen the squad for this signing campaign. If Ibra is coming for free as well, even better, but with those four signings we could make a serious challenge for the second spot. Then we can strengthen even more next summer and then challenge for the Scudetto and possibly the CL. Like I said, this re-foundation process should be gradual and we must be patient. Can't expect to win everything immediately.

I still think we need 2 great creative mids, not just one

Ideally the midfield would be

CM-Kondogbia-CM

With both CMs being creative/attacking outlets, maybe not CMs in the same type of mold, but one purely creative and a box-to-box guy who provides both creativity, runs and a general all action style to complement the other 2.

I think this is what makes the Juve midfield so great for example, they have a great mix of all these elements in their midfiels which is what makes it so great
X-Offender
Err, Han, I don't think you've got Kondogbia right. He's not a pure defensive mid in the traditional sense. He's got great passing skills, he's very good at making runs and he's got a very decent technique as well. Resembles Pogba a lot in his playing style. He's the best example of the modern box-to-box mid. Sure, he can play the holding mid position no problem, but I don't think that's what we're signing him for. I think a midfield of him, De Jong and a top creative mid would be kick-@ss.
acid911
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 19 2015, 02:44 AM) *
Err, Han, I don't think you've got Kondogbia right. He's not a pure defensive mid in the traditional sense. He's got great passing skills, he's very good at making runs and he's got a very decent technique as well. Resembles Pogba a lot in his playing style. He's the best example of the modern box-to-box mid. Sure, he can play the holding mid position no problem, but I don't think that's what we're signing him for. I think a midfield of him, De Jong and a top creative mid would be kick-@ss.

Well said. smile.gif His goal against Arsenal this season showed his talents and attacking sense. If he comes, he will certainly not be playing as a pure defensive midfielder, not when De Jone is expected to stay and start.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 18 2015, 09:44 PM) *
Err, Han, I don't think you've got Kondogbia right. He's not a pure defensive mid in the traditional sense. He's got great passing skills, he's very good at making runs and he's got a very decent technique as well. Resembles Pogba a lot in his playing style. He's the best example of the modern box-to-box mid. Sure, he can play the holding mid position no problem, but I don't think that's what we're signing him for. I think a midfield of him, De Jong and a top creative mid would be kick-@ss.

I don't agree that he's that inclined in the attacking department.

I'm no expert on him and the only full matches I've watched him play are the CL ones. But he didn't say box-to-box for me, yes he has a very good passing range, but that in my eyes only makes him a much better DM than De Jong in terms of not only winning the ball back but sparking the attack.

More so, I'm personally just over this pure DM thing as it limits the midfield, I was worried about losing De Jong when he was our only real great player in the squad, but now that we seem like we're actually going to be bringing in quality players, I don't see much space for his limited style tbh
X-Offender
Go watch some videos on YouTube, you'll realize he's very much attacking-minded. Playing as DM in the double pivot of a 4-2-3-1, sure, I can see that. But playing as the only DM in a 3-man midfield, I think that's too restrictive for him. Regardless, if we do sign, he'll most probably occupy the left side of central midfield. And I'm super fine with that, as long as we sign a top creative mid as well.
X-Offender
Apparently we're only waiting for the player's response now as we've already reached an agreement with Monaco. Also, we seem very interested in young Croatian striker Pjaca, and we could offer €10 million to Dinamo Zagreb for him. /Mediaset
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