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LaPalma
QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Sep 17 2006, 05:32 PM)
I think Torres is not a typical Spanish player. His style would suit Milan, but if Oliveira is a success, then I'll go for Klaas Jan Huntelaar. He will be Inzaghi's replacement and Dutch players DO make it in Serie A, specially in Milan. wink.gif
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Huntelaar is a great player as well, and I'm sure if this season well be only half as succesfull as his last he'll leave Ajax. Maybe his new teammate Jaap Stam will talk about Milan a little bit....
misha
Ronaldinho will take home £17m with Barca's new contract after AC Milan interest

Ronaldinho will stay at Barcelona until he is 34 if he signs a new contract set to be worth at least £8m per year, although his total earnings for a 12-month period up to next September may be up to nearly £20m, writes Matthew Day.

Once upon a time, David Beckham’s looks, along with his immense passing ability, elevated him into the proud position of being the world’s richest footballer. Most have no interest in the annual top tens, but the curious ones will reach for the sick bucket at the state of the game where even the most affluent of footballers want to cash-in wherever possible and many earn a weekly income that is double the average 12-month salary.

Beckham is now pleading for his England place, claiming ‘shock’ at being dropped despite appearing to dedicate most of his time not on training but avoiding the tabloids, filming commercials and living in his own diamond-encrusted bubble. Consequently, he abjectly captained England to a dismal World Cup campaign. Meanwhile, Ronaldinho has replaced ‘Golden Balls’ at the top of the money list and is, indisputably, the best player in the world. Not bad for someone who was rejected by Real Madrid (who opted for Beckham instead) because he was too ugly.

Real may have benefited, in the short-term, with Beckham’s huge popularity and saleability, but ultimately their galactico project failed miserably. So far, Ronaldinho has not let his vast earnings affect his performance for club Barcelona, where he has thrived under the cosmopolitan atmosphere. But first warnings that it has all come a little too fast for the 26-year-old were recognisable at the World Cup. In Germany, the buck-toothed Brazilian was played out of position and restricted in his freedom to operate under the tactically archaic Carlos Alberto Parreira, but reports ensued of late night romps with the ladies and an unhealthy obsession with Playstation game FIFA Football 2006.

But with the return of the Spanish season, the Rio Grande do Sul born playmaker reclaimed the form that has seen him win Fifa’s award as the world’s best footballer consecutively. He netted a sumptuous curling effort against Levski Sofia in the Champions League on matchday one, as if to send a message to the growing number of critics. He is a breathtaking player, playing at a wonderful club. Barcelona exhibit the most scintillating football in the world, and justifiably rule Europe’s roost as a result.

Ronaldinho earned approximately £15.5m between April 2005 and 2006, and that sum is set to rise again as Barcelona officials scurry around, organising a new, improved contract for the most-wanted footballer. His basic wage at the moment is a little over £6m, although he also receives performance-related bonuses. But more than 50% of his annual ‘salary’ is brought in via deals with Nike, Siemens, Chevron and Unilever. While Beckham participated in advertisements with the likes of PepsiCo and Vodafone due to his well-developed image, based upon good looks and a generally clean image, Ronaldinho has not been blessed with luscious South American looks like his Brazilian compatriot Kaka, one of the faces of Giorgio Armani, but nevertheless is at the summit of football’s financial charts, solely because his ability is so widely, globally adored.

He is already tied to Barcelona until 2010 – by which time he will be 30 years of age – but under the terms of the latest contract offer, which was put on the table as a result of AC Milan’s particularly keen interest, he will earn over £8m per year as his basic salary, until the age of 34. Add on performance-related bonuses, and that figure could easily rise by another £2m annually if Barca retained their La Liga title and Champions League crown. Barcelona wanted to justify the new deal, which sees a 33% rise in Ronaldinho’s basic salary, by taking a small cut of his image rights, which accounted for 61% of earnings in the one-year period. But recently Ronaldinho’s older brother and agent, Roberto de Assis, appears to have negotiated so that his client will take 100% of all earnings.

It reputed that Milan offered Ronaldinho a personal signing-on fee of €100m in early August of this summer, but the £18m signing from Paris Saint Germain rejected the Italian club's advances.

RONNIE’S POTENTIAL EARNINGS

2005-06
Annual salary plus bonus: £6,071,583.00
Other income: £9,480,191.00
Total: £15,551,774

2006-07 with new contract
Annual salary: £8,083,501.97
Potential bonuses: £2,000,000
Potential other income: up to £9,480,191.00
Prospective total: £19,563,692.97

Prospective earnings based on period beginning September 2006. 2005-06 figures based on April-April period.


With the ‘Ronaldinho’ brand name still in its growth stage, the money earned in a 12 month period from commercial projects is unlikely to waver. The 26-year-old will have signed long-term deals in the last year and before - for example a 10-year contract with Nike and further contracts with Pepsi, Cadbury and Unilever, which will boost last year’s sum though not necessarily the up-and-coming 12 months. In 2005 “little Ronaldo” was able to renew his contract which goes until 2008 to 2010, also increasing earnings in doing so. Due to his current success and comparably young age, his future income will be way above the average and that of top earners such as David Beckham.

Despite underperforming at the World Cup, the three weeks he was in Germany, playing for Brazil, raised his image worldwide. It would have been the first time fans in the USA and Far East, where the most lucrative markets exist, will have been able to observe the much-heralded Ronaldinho. Barcelona’s recent tour of the USA and the continuing marketing in countries like Japan will raise the value of football’s hottest icon. Ronnie picked up £9.48m in ‘other income’ and even a minor drop in that figure will still raise his net revenue in 2006-07 by way of his new contract.

David Beckham is set to work hard and concentrate on his football from now on – or so he says. At 31, he appears to be fading as a player and Real Madrid’s cash cow. Ronaldinho, at five years younger, has his relentless smile and vast skill which mean that he is expected enjoy at least five more years of marketing campaigns and enough money to enrich all of Spain’s citizens. As long as Ronaldinho sustains his tremendous performances, he can preserve the number one spot as footballer and earner. But he must take heed of the liabilities if the mix of playing and acting are not appropriate.

link
misha
QUOTE
an unhealthy obsession with Playstation game FIFA Football 2006.
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If there be a tournament between football players we can send Nesta smile.gif
dst
QUOTE (mishale @ Sep 17 2006, 09:20 PM)
If there be a tournament between football players we can send Nesta smile.gif
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LOL!!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif
I hope Alessandro knows better than EA games though!!! rolleyes.gif
dst
... are we practically giving money to Gaucho!!??? huh.gif biggrin.gif
Portman
Barça just signed a new sponsor contract with Puma for 2008-2012.

Don't know if this has something to do with R10 and "his" Nike.

PS: Etoo is Puma...
dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Sep 17 2006, 11:48 PM)
Barça just signed a new sponsor contract with Puma for 2008-2012.
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hmm ... interesting!!!
Portman
QUOTE
Barcellona, dal Brasile 'E' fatta per Anderson'. Si aprono le porte del Milan a Ronaldinho?

10:50 del 21 settembre - calciomercato.com

anderson-ronaldinhoI media brasiliani, in particolare quelli di Porto Alegre, città di origine di Anderson Abreu Oliveira, non hanno dubbi: il talento del Porto finirà al Barcellona. Dopo che il quotidiano spagnolo 'El Mundo Deportivo' aveva dato la notizia che il giocatore era stato seguito in più occasioni da osservatori del Barcellona e che sarebbe già stato raggiunto un accordo di massima per portare il brasilaino in terra catalana il prossimo anno, c'è stata subito la smentita da parte del club Portoghese. Ora però, anche dal Brasile, le indiscrezioni che trapelano lasciano presagire al fatto che il trasferimento ci sarà. Per l'astro nascente del calcio brasiliano, si era messo in fila anche il Chelsea, che al momento però, sembra tagliato fuori. Anderson è considerato il nuovo Ronaldinho e l'operazione che il Barcellona starebbe portando a termine poterbbe presagire al passaggio proprio di Ronaldinho al Milan. Non è un segreto infatti che l'asso brasiliano sia un pallino del club rossonero e del suo presidente Silvo Berlusconi.


Barcelona wants Anderson, the "new Ronaldinho" an 18 yo #10 of FC Porto. Brazillian who came from the same club as R10 - Grémio de Porto Alegre.

They say that if Barcelona gets the player, R10 can leave for Milan.

PS: Giving space for Anderson, Giovanni dos Santos, and other youngsters in Barcelona...
dst
Sh1t I reall like Anderson ... and I'd rather we raised the star ourselves!!!! But OK I guess Ronaldinho is not that bad ... biggrin.gif
Portman
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 21 2006, 12:57 PM)
Sh1t I reall like Anderson ... and I'd rather we raised the star ourselves!!!! But OK I guess Ronaldinho is not that bad ...  biggrin.gif
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I watch almost FC Porto match and I must say he did not impress me.
OK, he's 18... but...

I don't like his hair too. laugh.gif
dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Sep 21 2006, 04:02 PM)
I watch almost FC Porto match and I must say he did not impress me.
OK, he's 18... but...

I don't like his hair too.  laugh.gif
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What's with his hair ...

I don't know ... to tell you the truth I've only watched Porto's CL game and anothe one for the Liga and he looked very good especially in the Champions League!!! unsure.gif

How's Nelson been playing recently!!??? wub.gif
Portman
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 21 2006, 01:07 PM)
How's Nelson been playing recently!!??? wub.gif
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He played the first match, but Santos is rotating the team. (Like Carletto)

Dunno if he's going to play vs. United next week. Prob not... he's too ofensive to play against that teams.
Rossoneri7
Well Inzaghi is 33, by next season I think he'll have to make way for Ronaldinho .. That's the only logical thing I can think off .. Maybe the x-tree has a reason after all wink.gif
KillerMax
No please... sad.gif Say no to the monkey!!!! Kaka is happy here. Everybody is. Why would we wanna ruin that by bringing a player with a crazy *** salary? mad.gif
misha
QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Sep 21 2006, 07:45 PM)
No please...  sad.gif Say no to the monkey!!!! Kaka is happy here. Everybody is. Why would we wanna ruin that by bringing a player with a crazy *** salary? mad.gif
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I think you exaggerate a little bit.

If he comes ,the Milan system can handle it. Berlusconi will probably level Kaka salary to his or something. Don't worry everybody will stay happy.
KillerMax
QUOTE (mishale @ Sep 21 2006, 01:17 PM)
I think you exaggerate a little bit.

If he comes ,the Milan system can handle it. Berlusconi will probably level Kaka salary to his or something. Don't worry everybody will stay happy.
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Well don't be so sure. Ronaldinho is an attention whore and Milan don't work that way. The players wouldn't want a big monkey face attention whore with an annoying smile on his face coming to Milan thinking he is the $hit... We don't need him and I wish Barca never sell him to us!! mad.gif
misha
QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Sep 21 2006, 11:16 PM)
Well don't be so sure. Ronaldinho is an attention whore and Milan don't work that way. The players wouldn't want a big monkey face attention whore with an annoying smile on his face coming to Milan thinking he is the $hit... We don't need him and I wish Barca never sell him to us!! mad.gif
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Attention whore? LOL
Reporters and stuff making that media circus around him and pursue him everywhere. He has attractive style of playing and he is one of the best players in the world and that's ,these days, attracts people.

He could be success here or he couldn't .You never know.
gr33k
He's too good a player to pass up, if we have a chance at him we should sign him. It isn't our money so why should we worry about salaries and transfer fees? As long as the team improves then I'm happy.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (gr33k @ Sep 22 2006, 07:44 AM)
He's too good a player to pass up, if we have a chance at him we should sign him. It isn't our money so why should we worry about salaries and transfer fees? As long as the team improves then I'm happy.
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Applaus !!!! Yes it isn't our money king.gif

p.s. .. I know what I'll be doing with my money .. South Beach baby here i come biggrin.gif
Portman
QUOTE
Berlusconi wants Ronaldinho at Milan

Silvio Berlusconi's son, Luigi, has publicly declared that he would love to see Ronaldinho playing for AC Milan in the future.

Depsite being only 18, the comments are sure to be badly received by the Blaugrana after the Italian club made their interest in the Brazilian known during the summer.

Luigi shares the same passion for football and Milan as his father, but without any official attachment to the club he made his feelings known.

"Ronaldinho is the only player that I want to see at Milan," he said.

"He is unique. There is no other player in the world as elegant and as spectacular as him.

"I was brought up with players like (Andriy) Shevchenko."

Despite Ronaldinho's long-term contract at Camp Nou, speculation about his future is always in the public eye.

GOAL.com
Rossoneri7
QUOTE
Luigi shares the same passion for football and Milan as his father, but without any official attachment to the club he made his feelings known.

"Ronaldinho is the only player that I want to see at Milan," he said.

"He is unique. There is no other player in the world as elegant and as spectacular as him.

"I was brought up with players like (Andriy) Shevchenko."

Despite Ronaldinho's long-term contract at Camp Nou, speculation about his future is always in the public eye.


I think this will happen
amancik
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 27 2006, 02:49 AM)
I think this will happen
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what will happen?
dst
QUOTE (amancik @ Sep 27 2006, 08:00 PM)
what will happen?
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the public eye will be hurt ... rolleyes.gif
LaPalma
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 27 2006, 05:26 PM)
the public eye will be hurt ...  rolleyes.gif
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My teeth will be hurt as well...
dst
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Sep 27 2006, 08:32 PM)
My teeth will be hurt as well...
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why is that ???
LaPalma
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 27 2006, 05:41 PM)
why is that ???
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If I see Ronaldinhos teeth....my teeth always hurt...
dst
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Sep 27 2006, 09:08 PM)
If I see Ronaldinhos teeth....my teeth always hurt...
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Oh I see ... it's your teeth's way to show you they take umbrage at Gaucho's ones !!?? huh.gif
LaPalma
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 27 2006, 06:12 PM)
Oh I see ... it's your teeth's way to show you they take umbrage at Gaucho's ones !!??  huh.gif
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No, my teeth are so beautiful that they can't take it if my eyes see gauchos eyes...it's like you'd also be hurt if you see a picture of let's say Scarlett Johannson, and then a picture of Rossie O' Donell...
dst
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Sep 27 2006, 09:27 PM)
No, my teeth are so beautiful that they can't take it if my eyes see gauchos eyes...
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that's what I said ... rolleyes.gif
and who the fack is Rossie O' Donell ???
misha
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 27 2006, 09:29 PM)
that's what I said ...  rolleyes.gif
and who the fack is Rossie O' Donell ???
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Dyke. Ugly too
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (amancik @ Sep 27 2006, 08:00 PM)
what will happen?
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Ronaldinho to Milan .. And w/ Luigi Berlusconi talking about this, it seems as though it's a done deal .. Thats how I translate the situation w/ Ronaldinho ever since the summer

QUOTE (dst @ Sep 27 2006, 08:26 PM)
the public eye will be hurt ...  rolleyes.gif
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No.. tongue.gif

QUOTE (LaPalma @ Sep 27 2006, 08:32 PM)
My teeth will be hurt as well...
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biggrin.gif .. He's unique huh.gif Ok, he's ugly but unique biggrin.gif Give hima break, it takes alot from someone to come out on international television looking like him laugh.gif
Portman


"That Puyol... errrrr give me Nesta! I'm tired of that cu_t. Specially his stupid hair style. At least put a bandana or something. It's pretty obvious YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING! Now it's own goals... well, I'm out of here in August"
dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Sep 28 2006, 03:07 AM)
"That Puyol... errrrr give me Nesta! I'm tired of that cu_t. Specially his stupid hair style. At least put a bandana or something. It's pretty obvious YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING! Now it's own goals... well, I'm out of here in August"
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Obviously ... cool.gif

He looks like an ogre in that picture !! It scares me cry.gif
KillerMax
Please, stop talking about this Gorilla! Seriously, how about if he touched Nesta in the dressing room because he is a pretty boy??? laugh.gif laugh.gif
LaPalma
QUOTE (Portugal @ Sep 28 2006, 12:07 AM)


"That Puyol... errrrr give me Nesta! I'm tired of that cu_t. Specially his stupid hair style. At least put a bandana or something. It's pretty obvious YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING! Now it's own goals... well, I'm out of here in August"
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Well I sometimes have that hair problem as well biggrin.gif But Ronaldinho was a total mess today, it's obvious Messi is much more talented than him. We should sign him instead of the horse...
dst
QUOTE (pKillerMax @ Sep 28 2006, 03:55 AM)
Seriously, how about if he touched Nesta in the dressing room because he is a pretty boy???  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
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QUOTE (LaPalma @ Sep 28 2006, 03:57 AM)
We should sign him instead of the horse...
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There's one more man here that likes you now ... apart from yourself that is !!! biggrin.gif
LaPalma
QUOTE (dst @ Sep 28 2006, 01:00 AM)
There's one more man here that likes you now ... apart from yourself that is !!!  biggrin.gif
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Finally...
Portman
QUOTE
Ronaldinho: la stampa spagnola mette in dubbio il suo futuro al Barcellona

10:01 del 03 ottobre - calciomercato.com

La stampa spagnola si concentra sull'attuale condizione di Ronaldinho. La stella del Barcellona, infatti, sembra stia attraversando un periodo piuttosto difficile. Tra chi difende a spada tratta la stella della nazionale brasiliana e chi, invece, sospetta vi siano problemi da risolvere al più presto, il dibattito è in corso. Sia AS che El Mundo Deportivo tornano sulla questione. In particolare, quest'ultimo fa notare come, nella stagione in corso, le presenze del Pallone d'Oro 2005 siano già arrivate a quota 14 (soltanto a Vigo il giocatore non è stato impiegato da Frank Rijkaard). In difesa di Ronaldinho, ad ogni modo, si sono schierati sia il presidente Joan Laporta che il segretario tecnico Txiki Beguiristain: "C'è solo bisogno di un po' di pazienza - ha rivelato quest'ultimo -, lui ha sempre giocato tanto, fin dall'inizio. Io sono tranquillo". Quanto alle voci che darebbero Ronaldinho preoccupato per le difficoltà sorte in vista del rinnovo del suo contratto, Beguiristain ha risposto: "Sono parole dette in malafede", mentre Roberto de Assis, fratello nonché agente del campione, ha ribadito a Radio Barcelona: "Il giocatore non si è mai preoccuapto di queste cose. Fare queste domande è stupido. Anche quest'anno il Barcellona sarà vincitore". Il Milan, in ogni caso, resta alla finestra.


Spanish press keeps attackin' him week after week for his bad performances at Barcelona. Some say that he's worried about something else (maybe 'cause he's having problems renewing his contract with the club), but Barcelona directors and his brother keep saying "He's going to win a lot with Barça this season and people should be patient with him".
Milan continue following him.
dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Oct 3 2006, 01:32 PM)
Spanish press keeps attackin' him week after week for his bad performances at Barcelona.
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Money have dazed his mind !!
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 3 2006, 03:21 PM)
Money have dazed his mind !!
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how lucky can he get !!!!!
misha
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 3 2006, 02:42 PM)
how lucky can he get !!!!!
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He could be our player next season cool.gif
Portman
QUOTE
Ronaldinho: il Milan compie il primo passo. Kakà: 'Strafelice se venisse'

09:40 del 10 ottobre (La Gazzetta dello Sport)

Kakà chiama Ronaldinho al Milan: "Sarei strafelice se mi raggiungesse in Italia. Io non sono egoista: penso al bene del club". Il campione brasiliano parla del Milan, dell'Italia, ma soprattutto lancia un messaggio alla stella del Barcellona.

Sul re del Barça: "Potrei giocare con lui ancora per tanti anni. Se arrivasse in rossonero non sarei affatto geloso, anzi con Ronaldinho sarebbe ancora più bello". Su Ancelotti: "Non volevo criticarlo per il modulo di Lilla. Ora ho chiarito con tutti: non mi va di passare per quello che crea casini per poi andarsene a fine stagione". Sui dualismi: "Tutti parlano di quello tra me e Ronaldinho: ma mica ci siamo solo noi. C'è Sobis, c'è Fred, ci sono altri: ciascuno cerca di crearsi uno spazio". Su Gilardino: "Non è vero che non segna per colpa mia, io faccio del mio meglio. In questo momento Gilardino è sfortunato. Vedrete che prima o poi la palla entrerà".

E Berlusconi ha invitato il fratello procuratore. Il presidente del Milan ha chiamato il manager di Ronaldinho per pranzare insieme: il primo passo è stato compiuto. Il rinnovo del contratto con il Barcellona non è semplice, perché tanti soci del club preferiscono evitare un accordo fino al 2014.


Gazzetta says today that Kaka' gave the first step trying to get R10.

-Kaka': "I'll be very happy if he comes. I'm not selfish, I want the best for the club"

-Berlusconi invited the R10 agent, his brother, to talk.

It was the first step. Go Milan!
Portman
QUOTE
Seedorf a gennaio disposto a cedere la 10 a Ronaldinho

15:40 del 10 ottobre : calciomercato.com



Per il centrocampista rossonero Clarence Seedorf l'arrivo di Ronaldinho non dispiace, anzi. Alla precisa richiesta se fosse disposto a cedere la maglia numero 10 il calciatore olandese risponde con il sorriso sulle labbra, senza polemiche "Io ho qualche anno più di lui, ma se dovremo giocare insieme questo non sarà certo un ostacolo". Sembra che il presidente Silvio Berlusconi voglia incontrare Roberto Assis, agente e fratello del brasiliano. "Bene - continua Seedorf - a tutti fa piacere parlare di cose belle. Comunque non sarebbe un'ipotesi concreta fino a gennaio. Vediamo che succede, se il presidente ha voglia di investire, se Laporta ha voglia di cederlo e se Ronaldiho vuole venire. Se così fosse saremmo tutti felici".


Seedorf says that he wouldn't mind give the #10 to Ronaldinho. cool.gif
LaPalma
QUOTE (Portugal @ Oct 10 2006, 03:37 PM)
Seedorf says that he wouldn't mind give the #10 to Ronaldinho.  cool.gif
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Oh my God....they're serious with this stuff...
Jack Sparrow
Oh...no last time kaka wanted someone was Ronaldo and we all know how that went.

And I think our mutant ninja Turtle should keep no.10 coz Gourcuff deserves the number 20...
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Oct 10 2006, 05:45 PM)
Oh my God....they're serious with this stuff...
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Hell yea ... What Berlusconi, .. ( Well we'll see .. ) king.gif (fingers crossed)
dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Oct 10 2006, 05:37 PM)
Seedorf says that he wouldn't mind give the #10 to Ronaldinho.  cool.gif
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It's getting more serious by the minute !! ohmy.gif
Portman
QUOTE
Seedorf opens ‘Dinho door 
Wednesday 11 October, 2006 - channel4.com - FI

Clarence Seedorf says he would welcome Milan’s proposed capture of Ronaldinho. “I’d give him my shirt,” he stated.

The Barcelona player is again being heavily linked with the San Siro outfit and the Dutchman is ready to present him with a gift.

“If he joins Milan I don’t think there would be any problems about who is going to take the No 10 shirt,” said the former Inter man. “We will just see what will happen next year.”[/B]

Seedorf currently wears the number which has also graced the backs of players such as Dejan Savicevic, Roberto Baggio and Manuel Rui Costa at the club.

Ronaldinho would almost certainly request the jersey should he sign as he has recently designed a personal clothing collection called R10.

“We would be happy about such a move,“ added the man who has won the European Cup with Milan, Real Madrid and Ajax.

“But it depends on if our President reaches an agreement with the Barcelona President and if he [Ronaldinho] would like to come.”

Turning to the club’s recent struggles which have seen them draw their last three games 0-0, the veteran was remaining calm.

“I am not worried as I think we had a good start to the campaign,” continued Seedorf.

“As for Alberto Gilardino’s current form, that’s not a problem. He hasn’t scored during this period but his great talent is not lost.”
Portman
Galliani with his brother, Roberto de Assis, some weeks ago:

dst
QUOTE (Portugal @ Oct 11 2006, 02:23 PM)
Galliani with his brother, Roberto de Assis, some weeks ago
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I don't like him ... anyway ... is it gray hair I see on Galliani's scalp or ... just a reflection ?? biggrin.gif
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