That's just silly, I think the hatred on Allegri has reached a level where ridiculous things are being said. Show me a similar situation where a coach managed to do that and I'll show you a fairy tale.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. Silly? How's it silly? Ibra and Thiago were sold in July (or was it June?), so he had all the time in the world to re-organize his tactics and give another face to this team. He also knew that he would be getting a CB, a DM and a FW by the end of August. He should have realized that playing 4-3-1-2 without Ibra would have been difficult, but he still went with it and the results were disastrous. Then he went on changing formation and men in every single game. He tried 4-2-3-1, went back to 4-3-1-2 again, even tried 3-5-2 for a couple of games, and before he knew it, three months had passed and we were close to the relegation zone. You think this is acceptable for a coach, especially someone coaching AC Milan? He didn't have the excuse of injuries. Instead, he played frigging Acerbi over Zapata, when I was screaming my lungs out on this forum that the latter had to be a starter alongside Mexes. For many, many games our defense had different men in every game. It took him a long time to come up with this 4-3-3 formation, and for a handful of games we did have a good run. But even so, he always kept messing things around. Before it was Emanuelson as AM/RW, now we had to endure that idiot of Niang on the wing, and Bojan was completely ignored for the rest of the season. The other idiot Muntari was preferred to Nocerino. Boateng never exactly learned what his role in this team was. AM? CM? RW? After the first Barça game, our team completely lost it. These last few months have been a nightmare. Watching this team play became a chore. And everyone can say whatever they want, but had it not been for the refs, 3rd place wouldn't be ours now.

Implement a whole new system with a whole new squad without playing a competitive game...

It is a pretty good accomplishment to have grabbed 3rd given the circumstances of the squad this season. That doesn't mean that I would be sad to see Allegri go, though. I won't be upset if he came back either though. Like drucurl said, as far as what is fair, he kind of earned it, even if it was despite him instead of because of him.

Also really happy for Udinese for putting together such a strong finish. I've always liked them a little bit even though they don't win in European play.

You're right, it would've been ours last week had the refs did their job in the Fiorentina game. Ad I basically agree with what you've put Servbot.

3 players and half a Seedorf? nice try making it sound like it's no big deal, just "3 players" we're talking about Zlatan, Silva, Nesta here, those 3 are enough to make any team title contenders.

Yes, the squad was adequate enough to each third, and we did reach third! with a little help from the refs in some games, but all big team have that luxury. let's not complain about it.


You play too much FIFA. so does han. I refuse to believe it all is that simple. a great coach would've taken less time to do it than Allegri, sure, but BEFORE the season start?! as dst said you and han have taken this Allegri hate to a new, laughable and sometimes facepalm level.

It isn't that simple. If it was the league table would be the same every year. But some bigger name clubs fail often after a managerial change or a big squad overhaul, because it takes time. Even during a season it can take time - look at when Mancini wanted to go with a back 3, they really struggled because it takes time to get it right. But playing competitive games is the only way to get it done.

Expecting a coach with a new squad to just change a system for it to work in pre-season is like saying that we shoud've sent SES to go and play against the Primavera and in Serie C for lots of game time and he'll come back World class. Football just doesn't work that simply. Things have to progress in competitive game situations against good teams, otherwise they'll never be developed properly - whether it's a player or a system.

I agree with the above two posts. I'm not a fan of Allegri-football in the slightest, but then sometimes he is held guilty rather irrationally and with a very myopic view of reality.

I do no buy the 'anything-but-this' attitude when it comes to football management. You can survive if you have enough depth in your pockets.

Right now, I think Allegri is eerily similar to the Dark Knight. He's the manager we deserve, though not the one we need right now. And we will continue to hunt him. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.


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WHAT THE FACK WENT INTO MY COFFEE?

Not sure I want to know.

Cassano, Aquilani and Seedorf. Let's see what's wrong with all of those

Cassano. Heart problem, basically out for the entirety of last season
Aquilani, played some games at the start of the season, he was never really an integral player though, not like Monto for example. He got injured, we signed Muntari during the winter and Allegri didn't let him see the light of day again. He had 23 appearances, and a majority of them came from sub appearances. Yes pretty integral to the team
Seedorf, another player who was mastly used as a utility guy to plug holes last season. Again, he was not an integral first 11 players for us

Thiago, Nesta and Ibra, yes were huge, so was VB, although his first half a season with us he was unplayable, last season he was so and so although he was still a regular. That being said, we replaced him with De Jong, who later got injured, but on paper we still replaced him with a very good player

And no my judgement has not been clouded by anything. I repeat. I judge based on the facts. I never said we should be able to win the league at any point during this season, because we do not have the best side in the league. Last season we were undisputedly the best side yet we still failed to win it anyway. That's the whole point here. I acknowledge that the quality of our squad took a hit this summer, a major one, because of those losses. But still with that fact, Juve in turn have the best squad in the league now, which is why I always expected them to win it.

My point has never been that we should be competing against Juve because we only lost 3 players of note. But that we should have still made third without needing referees to bail us out on a consistant basis because the quality of this league as a whole is just terrible right now and us losing the quality we did during the summer should not have meant that we went from title contenders to relegation battlers at one point during the season


Exactly


And I explained all of those

We later recovered by signing Monto, SES became a revelation at the start of the season, later signed Balo who is a top class player no matter his mental disposition, etc. Some were an improvement, some still felt like a kick in the teeth considering the quality of Ibra and Silva. But as I said a million times. you have to look at this squad in terms of it's competition as well. Serie A is as rubbish as you deem our squad, so our rubbish squad should still be able to compete and at least get into the 3rd position in this rubbish league without too much trouble.

And there you go, once again saying that Juve had the better squad than us last season, which is the biggest load of bull you've ever come up with. You point out all the quality we had last season and then in the same sentence still say that Juve's rubbish team of last season was better than ours. Just ridiculous!

They started over 60 games between them and made over 30 sub appearances between them. So overall, 90 appearances, is a pretty decent contribution from 3 players.


Yes, which is why they went unbeaten and followed it up with another sensational season and good CL showing.

I said we downgraded our team, which we did. In no way have I said the above players are "quality", just that we've replaced them with lesser quality, which we have.

But I'm not going to get into this again, because we'll never agree.

Players in other teams achieve the same number of starts alone during the course of a long season playing 3 competitions.

Going unbeaten does not mean they have the best team in the league. Man for man, starting XI and substitutions we had the better squad by a country mile.

On the other hand, man to man, they had the better coach by a country mile. Hence going unbeaten with a pretty average squad.

So do you think Conte is one of the best coaches in the World? Because they had a pretty good CL and made Chelsea look completely dreadful in what is basically the same team from the 11/12 Champions.

You're talking about other things now, I was referring to the identity thing you said. I don't like Allegri but expecting a coach who lost all his best players over one summer to give an identity to a team full of mediocre players over what, 6-7 summer friendly games? That is silly and impossible.

I think he's up there right now without any shadow of a doubt

We've yet to see what Guardiola can do outside of Barca. Mourinho has always had the best teams to work with but he did prove himself with Porto. Then there's Heynckes, Carlo, Fergie retired. All of these had the best of the best talent wise. Conte cannot say the same, but he's achieved remarkable results.

Oh come on man, there are shadows and there are doubts! Conte is a coach, first and foremost, which is more than what can be said of most pretenders. On his best days, he's probably a good coach, but most of the time he's just lucky and his team thuggy. He's nowhere near up there, not amongst the elites, not yet.

I don't play FIFA.



And I say it wasn't impossible. And even if I agree with you, do you realize that it took him three months, THREE MONTHS to get things straight! Unacceptable. If it wasn't for this man, we would have reached 3rd place without much of a hassle many weeks ago.

How can you say it's not impossible? I've never seen anything close to that happen. Yes three months seems like a long time but I don't think there's many coaches out there that could have done that faster and we can't afford any of them. We're always right only when we're second guessing.

Nah man, he's great.

He turned a bunch of average players into unbeatable Scudetto winners.

He's a tactician, a very good one at that but most importantly he's an amazing man-manager. I don't think I've seen someone as good as him aside from Mourinho and SAF. His players would sweat blood out there for him

As Forza Milan said to kurt in the match thread. He turned a team which had previously finished 7th into Scudetto winners, and not because he had a particularly good squad but because the players played each game as if it was the most important game of their lives. While we on the other hand play a do or die game as if it's a friendly against a Serie C side.

What exactly haven't you seen happen? A coach giving a face to his new team? Well, I'll give you an example: Vincenzo Montella. Fiorentina changed more than 70% of their players this summer, and hired a new coach. He managed to give an identity and game style to his team in a matter of weeks, and his team was ready when the season started. Why couldn't Allegri do the same?

When you are coaching a team for two years, when you look at your players train every day, someone would think you'd know what's best for your team. Well, it took Allegri three months to realize that, and even then he barely managed to scrap results and almost lost his objective in the very end.

Just because they had a decent start does not mean they had an identity. They were not the team they are now. And they did not lose the kind players Milan did.

Anyway, I don't care.

Fair enough if you think that highly of him then. Where do you rate Montella? He's had good success at a smaller club like Conte did with Siena in his time at Catania and now he's put Fiorentina on the verge of CL football.

Well I respect your viewpoint, and that is why I have not quoted your full post. But just wanted to say that he did not take a team that finished 7th to Scudetto. He took Juventus to the title, helped in no small amount by us while at it. Sure they were and always will be a bunch of losing whiners, but it was just not any random club.

Plus, Juventus management had traditionally splashed the cash whenever needed. Unlike our idiots in the board room. Point being, that even taking into account the minus respect I have for the druggists, Conte is a good coach at best, for me that is. I have seen many better, there are a handful ahead of him currently.

Besides, the truest test of a coach is when he moves to another team, and whether he can repeat his success.

They also had significant investment from the 7th place team though. Quags was on loan that year, was great for 6 months and got injured. Matri came in January and was great for 6 months. They then added Vucinic to that. Lichsteiner and Cacares also signed to help sure up the defense and then Pirlo and Vidal in midfield.

If we made 6/7 first team signings then we'd be a damn good team too!

+∞ Though we'd need a good coach to go with the signings so he (or she) can bring the best out of them.

I think Montella has potential to be great as well, he's not there yet, his teams although great to watch and are good offensively tend to be a bit of a mess in the defensive department. It was the same thing with Catania last season and with Roma prior to that.

Don't get me wrong if we had even the slightest chance of signing him right now I'd jump at it.


It was a Juventus that was flailing at best, 2 consecutive 7th place finishes. Not just any coach could come in and implement such changes and turn the loser mentality around on it's head and make the players believe they can basically do anything, which is what he instilled in them


I had this discussion with Filippo. The season prior to that Juve had made even more flashy signings then the ones you pointed out there. Krasic, Melo, Diego, Bonucci, Matri, Quagliarella, Marchisio was really starting to find his feet in the team and so on. Yet they still were horrible.

If anything the quality of players they signed was slightly more subdued when compared to that list. Pirlo was the only really big addition (thanks to us ). Yet Conte stepped in and made them winners. That's how great he s and why I rate him so highly. I always bring up the 3 at the back for Juve and how great the are when playing for Juve then the same 3 step onto the pitch for Italy and it's a mess. I don't think you can get a more perfect example of his influence then that, and it's not like Prandelli is some slacker either

Juventus took time to rebuild, started from a Serie B team to a CL team. This is our first season at that. I don't think we could challenge Juventus to the title, the team had to take its time to regroup. How long it takes depends on the players intelligence and chemistry together. Now that this season is done, we move into the second phase of turning this team into a self-sustainable 'good' team. Third year and so forth. Knowing full well that we had enough in the tank to balance out CL and seal a 3rd place finish gives me optimisim going into the second year, our aim should be the Scudetto and this team's core with a few quality additions should give us the tag of serious contenders domestically.

But taking this season's events into consideration, 3rd place was well within reach of even the 7th placed team. Hence competition for that spot will be even harder next season.

Okay, if this is a grand scheme, then what would be our goal next season?

So, after Higuain, Juve are ready to make an offer for Jovetic: €8 million + Quagliarella and Marrone.

Link

Juve are going to look scary. I'm sure Higuain will be a hit, like the new Trezeguet. and Jojo, there's no doubting his great quality.

I hear Conte wants to change system. Maybe 4-3-1-2?



Scary indeed.

Now THAT is what a great top class team looks like kurt, not last season's Juve

Still, can't see them getting Jovetic.

Other clubs are offering them cold hard cash for him, to hand him over to one of their worst rivals for 8m plus 2 average players would be stupid on their part

wow, are they just trying to piss off Fiorentina? I would never accept that.

Della Valle said yesterday that they want to sell Jovetic, even to Juventus if they make the right offer.

It's most likely that they cannot afford what other clubs are offering for him, especially if they're planning on buying Higuain. No matter their own stadium, they're still not a club that can compete with the other top European clubs when it comes to money

Milan should get Jovetić. He's a great potential.

Maybe if we offer them €10 million + Pazzini and Muntari.

Oh come on, you'd always accept an offer of €8 million.

I think it wouldn't be a bad deal. Marrone would allow Pizzaro a few days off during the season. Losing Jovetic would suck, but Quagliarella is pretty underrated I think, plus they have Rossi now AND a little cash to spend.

As for Juve's spending power, a browse on a Juve forum a few seem to think they have 200m to spend but that includes player bonuses and wages also, which they believe means around 40m or so on actual player transfers. You'd imagine Higuain will take up over half of that, so if they want Jovetic they're going to have to do a deal like this, or sell players to add to it. Either way I don't think they will be making too many transfers.

Pizzaro is leaving Fiorentina just FYI.

Even more reason Juve will probably get a deal like that done then.

According to all Italian newspapers, Higuain already agreed to join Juve and his salary demands are met (4.5 million plus bonuses). Now they need to finish the negotiations with Real, but it seems very close. Though Real want to take Vidal from them.

Good luck with that one Madrid.

Yes it would as both those players are very average, especially Marrone.

Fiorentina would do much better to take the reported offer from Arsenal and get cold hard cash for him and spend it on the players Montella wants.

It would be absolute stupidity for them to go for such a deal from Juve of all clubs

He's not that bad and still young. They desperately need to replace Pizzaro is he is indeed leaving and this will do that. A combination of Quagliarella with a returning Rossi would more than replace Jovetic' goals too.

Marrone is just another Italian player who will do the rounds in the league. It's good Juve have him as a bargaining chip to settle deals, but certainly not a deal that involves a player of Jovetic's calibre.

Same for Quagliarella. Scorer of spectacular goals he may be, but as someone to depend on? Not the best guy. Matri at least wouldn't be as insulting as that proposed offer.

And like I said, no matter if they lose Pizzaro or not, it's still not a good deal for them, take the big sum of money and buy 3 good players of Montella's choosing, not take Juve rejects and give them one of the best young players in the league. That would simply be stupid on their parts.

Btw, has there been talk of where Pizzaro might go? Imagine if we had him as part of the squad instead of Muntari or Traore. He'd be a great addition for us.

I read somewhere else that Montella wants Marrone, so that may be why he's included.

Agreed with you on Pizarro, if he wants to stay in Italy I'd be more than happy to have him.

According to Della Valle, Pizzaro wanto to leave because he has no faith in the integrity of Italian football. Join Milan? You guys forgot what happened?

no faith in the integrity of Italian football