I think Pato will play... don't worry... I'm confident about that... I think he will play enough... I'm sure Ancelotti has a place for him...

You said that milan didn't lose most of our pre-season games. Winning a 45-min/game tournament like the TIM CUP to me doesn't count. In the good old days we never took this tournament seriously and let Inter have it. Losing 5-0 to Chel$ki is a fluke? Hardly likely...I know we weren't up there offensively but surely conceeding 5 goals is a bit worrysome no? Chel$ki played with NEW players AND a new coach/system.

You are TOTALLY right about the Trofeo Berlusconi though it was a full 09 min....my bad



I'm not making it up Dunga alluded to this prior to dropping Pato (not that I agree that Pato should be dropped mind you)

And lolzzzz Robinho is one of the brightest stars in world football. That you are against him speaks volumes to me

We won other games. It's a fluke dude. We were missing most of our players.

PLEASE LOOK AT THE FACTS. We played as Pirlo and Ambrosini as strikers so don't even think about sitting here for a minute telling me it wasn't.



Dunga is an idiot. He dropped a great player for a no name.

Yeah, that's what I meant. but there's a difference now. Pato is well known as a great potential all over the world! besides some of the San Siro crowds who are against Sheva's return (or want to see Pato play as much as I do!) will surely put Carlo under pressure to field Pato. I can already hear all the jeers and boos when Carlo plays with Christmas tree with Sheva at the top of it! perhaps I shouldn't be worried that much.

+1. Carlo will bench anyone this side of Maldini. He likes to keep things under his control. Good, bad, or ugly, that depends on who's talking and how much of a fan of Carlo that guy is. I personally feel it may have helped sometimes in keeping a grip over the squad, but has also hurt is with points and losses.

Agreed, acid. The dropping of Pato didn't help at all towards the end of last season. We had 4th in our own hands and threw it away.. all with Pato on the bench.

Well Inzaghi was in great form at that time... and he is a better finisher than Pato... but Pato did come on more as a substitute.

very very true

Three points would have made the day. Two points, god damn it. Fiorentina didn't finish 4th. Milan finished 5th, and in the process became a joke of the whole of Europe. Remember how they gave us a chance by losing the third last match, and we crapped everything inside out by losing to Napoli - the same Napoli we toasted 5-2 when R99 was on).

And we'd still have gotten the same players if we qualified: Sheva, Ronaldinho, even Flamini. Then what? Abbiati and Borriello, and some new signings from South America. Who knows? Even someone better than these guys, as players don't want to risk losing out one year of CL if they are good enough and can help it. That's just how top players of today are.

Half of our season was lost when we signed Pato (only Pato) last summer. Half of it was lost because of Carlo's stupidity (or stubbornness, if that's too hard a word). And those funking injuries to Ronaldo never helped things one wee bit. I can already sense third (or even second place) had he stayed fit. Last I calculated, we lost at least 19 points losing/drawing twice (both home and away) to teams like Atlanta and friends. And going down to Juve and Roma 3-2.


I can recall more than one occasion where he benched him and we lost points. With Inzaghi on. Who says we can't play with two strikers, or a more offensive game? And that too against teams half our stature. It's not like we were playing inter, Juve, Roma or Fiorentina. A win there would never have hurt. I'd take those 2,3 points eyes closed.

Too bad our defensive coach thinks otherwise. I hope he changes a bit this season. Even Galliani hinted in his last interview that he's got a team setup to win the league, and there should be no excuses from Carlo. Or else...

Trust me he'll change. Galliani gave him a warning right there to change, or be gone. There is NO excuse for the amount of quality players we brought in. Now... I like Ancelotti, and have defended him on countless times but I want to see him be more adventurous...

We did see the reshuffling of our team. Of course many legends are staying, but we brought in many new talents. I'd like to see Cardacio come on as a sub, instead of say Brocchi.

don't know if it was posted before (apologies in advance) but here's what some random idiot who knows NOTHING about Milan/SerieA had to say about signing $h!tchel$ki (click)
At least it wasn't said by a Milan legend who played with him

I'm just sick and tired of your attitude.

Costacurta I think has it wrong if that was in fact what he said... and we know goal.com often mistranslates and misrepresents the views of many.

The translation and link to original articles is in the BIlly thread and even if I'm pilloried, I agree with him. Remember how long Billy's been with the club and the fact that he was Paolo's vice captain. He may have left after last season but he's someone who's probably remarkably well informed about the state of things at Milan.

EDIT: oops. Actually the translation and link to originals is in this thread, several pages of bickering ago.

Not everyone may agree with it, but we took a gamble.

Either way! According to the lega-calcio.it site, it's a loan.

So what if it doesn't work out?

we didnt lose most of our preseason friendlys?

tie cremonese 0-0
45 min v juve 2-2 (win on penalties)
45 ins v. inter 0-0 (win n penalties)
lose sevilla 1-0
lose chelsea 5-0
beat juve 4-1
lose gijon 2-0

aggregate score 7-11

won 1 lose 3, drew 3... DOMINANT


-you can be a homer all you want but face facts.... by ur logic, we won the champions league too BECAUSE U SAID SO!


on a positive note, although i didnt want sheva back i'll take it, and i think senderos will suit italy and impress more than doubters think... similar to sissoko w/ juve, slow down play involve more technique, suits him better, not harsh bad challenges.

Why did you have to show up here? Did Dru call in reinforcements?

For one, we didn't have most of our players for many of those games. We didn't even play with all of our reinforcements or regulars! Did we play Pato? No. Did we play Kaka? Not for most of them. Did we play Ronaldinho? No. Did we play Shevchenko? No. Did we play Inzaghi? Only for a few of them (mainly the Juve game). Did we play Borriello? No. Did Senderos play any? Nope... we just got him recently.

Take that into account. Meaningless friendly games mean nothing. Especially when several of those games we were missing the bulk of our team!



I can't believe you decided to show up here.

But I'm surprised there is one thing we agree on. Senderos. And that's all we agree on.

This is exactly what I said the other day when does anything Goal.com say get taken seriously on here but when it's bad against Sheva the people who want to believe it will...

If Goal.com read 'Kaka going to Chelsea', 'Kaka wants out of tiring Milan', 'Pato doesn't believe the Rossoneri can challenge for the title, yet' it would be lambasted and called rubbish, unreliable and most posts would simply just reply to the topic to say it's from 'Goal.com'

Now, the only person I've read on here that has constantly showed their disagreement to Sheva rejoining but is big enough to still get behind him is Tennie, I just hope others will...

Thing is, goal.com was actually accurate this time. I agree with Billy's concerns and hope we're both wrong, for the team's sake.

Super signature image, KIB. Very nice!

Why would Billy say this?

We got Sheva on loan... it's not like we will lose much if he doesn't recover.

Maybe Billy doesn't think it was a good idea to get him.

It's not a bad idea. If we bought him, it would have been a huge gamble. But we didn't.

It's like a trial.

It remains to be seen whether or not the loan is a good idea. At this point I tend to agree with Billy.

Hopefully the season's performance will prove both of us wrong.

If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul. We'll find another striker. It's better to have Sheva, then no one I think.

I think he has something to prove.

pretty sure sheva wasnt a loan. Berlu bought him for undisclosed amount. Undisclosed mainly because of political reasons. Doesnt look good for him to spend when italian economy is not doing well...I am willing to bet it was a decent sum of money, although we sold him 2 years ago for FAR more than he performed, so it isnt really a loss for us. Eitherway it is what it is. Berlusconi LOVES sheva, he is his godson, he's going to do what he wants so its really a pointless argument...

We needed a 4th striker, paloschi is nowhere near milan ready....should pato and borriello mesh well, sheva wont mind the bench... its become his friend last 2 seasons. However i think he'll be more than serviceable

Wrong. On the official website where contracts are posted, it is listed as a loan. Don't tell me that the website is lying.

http://www.lega-calcio.it/ita/trasferimenti08090.shtml

SHEVCHENKO Andriy CHELSEA TEMPORANEO 26/08/2008

At least do your research before you make accusations. And as far as the Italian economy... don't turn this into a political thing when it isn't.

"pretty sure sheva wasnt a loan." is by no means an accusatory tone...

(didn't look like an accusation to me; looked like some mistaken information, that's all.)

I'm going to fall halfway in between this disagreement. I think it was a loan-with-purchase sort of thing. Ie, a 1 year loan with purchase to follow. dont' think for a moment that Shevchenko will return to Chelsea. As for why the sum wasn't disclosed, there are arguments on both sides: some say it was a crazy sum of money that Berlusconi doesn't want to disclose while others say Abramovich doesn't want people knowing how little he went for.

In any event, Shevchenko is a Milan player for this season at least, for better or worse. While I've got my doubts (and people are probably tired of hearing about them), I hope I'm wrong and that his return will be a pleasant surprise in many ways.

no, but the part about the political reasons for Berlusconi keeping it up under wraps (the details) were...

The thing is this: Shevchenko was a loan deal. Fact.

(Fishdoll takes the braincell back from Habitant! )

how is that accusatory, it was just matter of fact. he has a business to run but also public appearance to look for. are u berlusconi, am i bad mouthing u? Am i even badmouthing berlu. it was just the logic i read, made sense to me

http://transfermarketweb.com/index.php?act...amp;idsel=23351

thats where i got my info, i went on acmilan.com there is no mention of details eitherway. His wikipedia also reitterates the same point as tmw.

I took what I said from the OFFICIAL market website by Lega-Calcio. So what you said was not factual. IF you have a problem with what they said, I'm sure you can email them or contact them. you made a suggestion it was political.

Shevchenko's transfer was a loan + with possible buy later... or they may loan him to us again, until his contract runs out at chelsea (like Crespo was done with inter).

Are you saying my source is lying?

Guys, please. BASTA with the accusations and counter-accusations. Let's take the town down a touch, shall we?

Welcome Milano84...great to hear from you

Do you guys think $heva can regain some of his pace? I think he can with the right training regimen....he has to train less (to be more nimble and use all of his remaining acceleration) and Ronaldinho has to train more

I forgot one other great thing about $h!tchel$ki...he takes some pretty decent free kicks....with Pirlo, Seedorf, Pato and Ronaldinho competing for FK's we might see more goals this way. Last season no matter how poor Pirlo was he always got the nod. The other great thing about $heva is his distance shooting.

As far as the loan/ownership thing....my suspicion is that the odds on him not moving back to Chel$ki are unfortunately very high Funny how we didn't have money for the transfers that Carlo actually wanted but we spend on the likes of $have . AAAHH well at least Carlo now has a great squad and won't ever be tempted to pick Brocchi

I think he needs to regain skills and tactics... pace is secondary as Italian football is tactical, not pace based. He won't have to move all that much in Italian football.

That's just my view on this...



As I said he may get loaned out until his contract expires, thus is a free agent at that point.

sorry but as long as your here you will abide by the rules and you will not say you are tired of someones attitude because you have no right. If you dont like it here please click the X button at the top right.

Are you a moderator? Unless I'm told from a moderator, I will not listen to you. Nor will I be ordered around with some who has an obvious bias. I have no right? Really? Tell me why do I not have a right to speak my mind? Don't like what I have to say about certain individuals who have ill intentions?

fine you want to be dealt with a moderator? even better, just a question before you joined did you even bother reading the forum rules?

Yes I did. But don't patronize me. I know how to read. It's just some around here didn't bother looking at it. There are basic rules of etiquette and I for the most have been civil, though a bit blunt and very direct, in my exchanges. I haven't insulted anyone, nor do I want to.

well let me tell you how it works pal since i've been here alot longer than you have. You said you joined this forum because you didn't like all the negativity and pessemistic views the other forums had? Well this one has its share too you just haven't met all the people yet. wait till we get further into the season you will see all the negativity, well that is if your not banned right away haha.

I think this forum is a hell lot more positive and I've gone through the archives. I think it's so-so... I think there are some who are more positive than others. But on the other forums I've been to all I read about is people nagging and b*tching about players they wanted. I swear if some of these people even came close to running a business, they'd be filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy in like four months.

I don't quite see so much nagging on this forum. So while some may be negative about the season, I'll take that over the never ending constant flow of crying about how Milan didn't buy Quaresma or Didier Drogba...

True i agree but you can't just be hot headed and start a fight with whoever you think is insulting the management. We believe it or not do have part time fans and especially since ronaldinho joined you will see people who are just band wagon jumpers.


I am usually very negative but so far it hasn't been like so. Me portikins, kurt, han, zd, habitant etc are very very negative sometimes and things get heated up here so just try and take it easy and when you say to someone im tired of you, then we ask why are you here? You have to respect everyone around here regardless if their opinion is complete bullshitt and they just look like people who are on here to abuse. 70% is negative on this forum and you just have to get used to it. If your gonna fight with every single person who says something against your oppinion and grind to the core trying to prove them wrong, then i just suggest you just leave now because you will find it difficult here. I"m not as harsh as others and you will see that later on. I"m just giving you a pre-warning, take it as you will.

I don't know why you keep making these sweeping statements and expect people to automatically agree. Pace is not a requirement in any league period. Zidane and Riquelme are EXTREMELY slow and did very well in La Liga. Shearer and Bergkamp are very slow and have worked miracles in the Premiership.

Pace is however an asset....in ANY league..And the tricky thing about pacy players is that only the really special ones can deal with losing it....There are some players that are extremely pace dependant. When that goes, their career at the highest level goes too. Perhaps the most fitting example is Vieri.....Sure he was strong as an ox and could hold off an army...but Vieri was also surprisingly fast for a man his size. His drop in form interestingly coincided whit his natural loss of pace due to aging.....a phenomena that you seem to deny exists

$heva was KNOWN for his pace or speed. I fear that his decline in speed bears a strong correlation to his decline as a player as well. This is why I hope he can regain some. When Ronaldo lost most of his explosiveness he modified his game and introduced new aspects such as long range shooting and enhancing his predatory skills to still be able to compete at the highest level. $heva's inability to adapt to the Chel$ki game implies to me that he's not the type of player that can just change his game to suit his circumstances.

Keep in mind that despite his admirable goal scoring exploits, $heva isn't the classical finisher in the way that RVN, Trez or Pippo are....He was actually very wasteful..not like Gila...of course but he missed many sitters as well. Hence we're in a bit of a dilema as to how and where exactly to use him. My guess is as a classic #9 even though he isn't the most clinical of strikers....he couldn't be as bad as Gila and he should be at least a notch over Borriello......He may not yet have the confidence to play support striker to Pato/Borriello because his ability to take on his man seems very much diminished....the lack of pace doesn't help either.....then even in the event that he does well in this position, Pato's finishing skills need work...Borriello is a wildcard...but then again chances are that he mightn't be starting anyway....although stranger things have happened under Ancelotti

I'm not trying to be hot headed. I just don't like certain things people say, but I won't get angry about it. While it may seem like I am, it's not my intention. If you're a Milan fan, that's all that matters in the end. I'm no bandwagon jumper, I'm a full time Milan fan.



I think this forum is a lot more positive than the one I was on. Literally that was 100% negative... I'm not fighting with everyone on here. I like to engage in debate on what should be done in the future. This isn't about fighting... no need for any warning. I've taken plenty of open debate classes before to know to keep my cool.

good i hope so but im telling you right now while theres mods like tennie who are relaxed and wish to settle there are also mods like max who will go to the point without hesitation if you get what i mean.

he doesn't like/respect ANY view that differs from his own . He takes it personal and views it as insulting.....THAT'S why he's sooo much fun!!!!

Actually that's more descriptive of yourself. If someone doesn't like Crapesma you get all angry and then snap... like you have a love affair with him and Sobis... you're the one who takes everything I say personally... and then you have these outbursts... where you just go nuts.

no i'm simply saying i read that it wasnt disclosed, and i quoted my source so you can take a chill pill (read:go across the border, buy some xanax, vicodin, whatever u need to calm down). I never said transfer wasp olitical i simply said reason dollars werent disclosed was political... and heres my elaboration:

-its odd to not disclose price these days, u rarely see it, although if it was a loan it was a loan. I'm surprised no other site picked it up, but thats doesnt make it less factual.

-i was simply alluding to the point berlu's in a difficult position, money needs ot be spent on milan to win, like all big clubs, but being a civil servant he's in an awkward position. ITs grounds for his political opponents to attack him "blah we're struggling and he's buying his football fetish" so not disclosing info would protect him for that, and its the right move to do as spending his private moneyo n football club he runs shouldnt have any effect on country, but we all know how politics spins ****.

-i guess everything i wrote is irrelevant since we took him for a free loan. I wish him luck, i hope to see him pato and dinho all score sunday.

http://www.lega-calcio.it/ita/trasferimenti08090.shtml

This is where all the official transfers are posted. Certain information cannot be hidden. This was a loan deal, I have a feeling he'll be loaned out an additional year until his contract expires.

I don't use drugs.



We can't spent huge amounts of money... and besides that didn't Berlusconi buy another big mansion recently? He is one of the most effective leaders and he has virtually unlimited power considering the majority he holds in the Italian parliament.