Sheva said that he decided to retire after Euro 2012.

Who remembers this?

http://youtu.be/c-Jnmcsqk4I

I'm not sure I did! thanks for posting.

*happy sigh*

Who could forget something like that!? Lazio seems to be the club Milan striker score extraordinary goals


I miss Sheva very much. Pato does sometimes remember me how Sheva played for us, but he's way inconsistent to be the real heir of the "7"

He's also very young and very injury prone... if his injury problems are somehow sorted in the future, I can see Pato creating a legacy of his own. he's already scored quite a few staggering goals too.

As for numbers, they don't matter. Nocerino doesn't have to be the heir to Kaka just because he's wearing #22. of course #7 is special for us Milanistas but Pato didn't ask for it, he wanted #11.

It's more of a symbolic thing. Numbers do matter though, the "3" and "6" are some proofs.

Yep, he is brilliant from time to time, but we are entering in a period where he must learn to be consistent and that can be achieved only be constant playing and training. The boy has too many injuries and I think they are also connected with his rather unwise private life. Look at what Breno did at Bayern? Injured, needed a second operation with only 21 or 22, got drunk, burned down his fancy villa. Sometimes we forget that those "professionals" we're talking about are in fact humans, kids with flesh and blood and the pressure sometimes gets them. That's what worries me most with Pato - even if he manages to overcome the injuries, it could change him as a persona and as a "professional".

Let's not forget that both Sheva and Kaka' were 22 when they joined Milan. Pato has been a milanista since he was 17 and he's already become an important player for us. However, now it's time to start taking things more seriously and attain a higher level. But all these injuries are really challenging his consistency.

Sheva and Kaka were given more time to mature slowly imo, Pato was brought in at 17 and immediately rushed in as well as forced to make big physical changes (all the increased muscle mass) in a short time span, this imo could be a huge contributing factor to all these injuries we're seeing today

Let's not forget that even before coming to Milan, Sheva did great things with a team like Kiev in CL (1/4 in 1997 and SF in 1998) and scored shitload of goals for them.

If we are sharing goals, how about the one vs Juve in 2001: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYghUO2xfK4

I can't see how sleeping with Barbra is connected with his injuries. are you saying he's not taking it serious? cause I'd disagree. I remember he once went to extra trainings even at holidays to help solve his problems. you're just being unfair to him. yes he's acted naively so far in his personal life and relationships but I don't think there's been anything that he could've done to make him a better footballer and athlete and he didn't do it.

With Kaka sure - one might say it was one of the smoothest transitions in Milan history - he had Rui Costa covering him in any occasion, plus the likes of Rivaldo, Seedorf and Pirlo.

Sheva? Not really. He came at a very similar moment, just like Pato - we had an aging attack with Bierhoff clearly deteriorating, with Ganz who wasn't on pair to any of our players and Weah.


Unfair? I don't see it that way, I think I'm stating the obvious while you deny the truth.

I don't blame him much, I just said that the amount of times he got injured secured him some "free time" and that "free time" lead him to party with Ronaldinho, get comfortable with Barbara, etc.
You don't think he could have done more? I agree with you, even if we really don't know even half of the story.

What on earth are you talking about?

I'm saying that for 2 years now Pato isn't playing regularly and that this opens him a whole world, that other players can't afford to participate in.

Well that doesn't make sense to me. I hope others will understand.

Why not? I mean, doesn't it make sense to conclude someone's missing consistency because he's been constantly interrupted? And doesn't that mean that he has more time then for example Thiago who plays 95% of our matches?

Time is a relative thing, after all.

Obviously I wasn't talking about this part.


Getting injured doesn't mean you have more time. especially light (but persistent) injuries like this. he still has to do a lot of individual trainings, physiotherapy, etc etc.

I don't think getting injured means staying at home in the days and hitting the nightclubs in the nights!

Neither do I, but it's like school, if you miss it out too much, no matter what your reasons are, you simply fall behind.

Not sure. education and sports are two different matters. I haven't seen a professional footballer that doesn't love playing and participating in every game or want to become better every day. even "the Party Animal" Dinho. it's different from education where more than often one has to force themselves or study something against their will.

Also let's not forget these players are on hefty contracts too. they can't fool around. they do as the club says.

Maybe it was a bad example; anyway, my conclusion is that Pato's health and private life are blinking red and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't think his private life is affecting his games really. his injuries do.

But let's drop it. we argue way too much!

I shared a Sheva goal and now people are exploring the holes in the education system... How bored is everybody?

But Sheva had huge European experiance behind him and matured slowly at his home club, he blew up on the scene at Kiev imo, not Milan. Sure he became a household name at Milan, but he was far from an unkown when he came to Milan.

While Kaka, as you said, had a lot of factors that were working in his favour. Pato came in during a transitional period, and imo, we're still not completely through it 100%, add to that his age and the pressures that came with his move, pressure to do well, pressure to deliver on the hype, pressure to develop as quick as possible, etc. Things were going against him a bit and yet he's still got a magnificant scoring record for us.

Attributing his injuries to his personal life doesn't make sense. Is anyone happy about his relationsip with the boss' daughter? Not really but as long as he does his work in training and on the pitch then it's pointless to b!tch about or criticise him for something that might happen in the future.

Well, for now it's pointless. In a few years...we'll see

Agreed, you can only say I told you so, after the event happens, pointing fingers now is pointless.

Another point Allegri made about Pato's muscle injuries is that they all happened in San Siro, I think that's an interesting fact.

Why?

I'm with Zed on this one. Being injured means actually dedicating yourself to recovering, which requires a lot of time and effort. In fact, I think injured players spend more time on recovering than regular players spend on training.

Yeah that Lazio goal was impressive like someone mentioned in a relevant post somewhere in the last few days he often did it against Lazio. I'll never forget the time he came back from injury (was it his broken cheekbone?) and scored a 35 yard free kick and eventually we won in like the 95th minute from a Crespo scruffy winner! Great memories.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWHlVtZOhvQ

He did score a lot vs Lazio (them and Inter he particularly liked to do well against ), in one of his first games in Serie A he scored a hat-trick aganst them.

My god Sheva

Those were the days were you had the derby coming and you could already know a part of the outcome - Sheva scores, Vieri chokes.

Not taking anything away from Sheva, but we had a proper midfield back then which made it easier for him to work his magic.

To be honest if I was our attacking midfielder Sheva would have still looked good.

We didn't have that midfield in his beginning here and he was still scoring plenty both in Serie a and CL. 63 goals combine in his first two seasons.

Sorry, but your assessment is a false assumption. Even with a midfield of Giunti, Albertini past his prime, aging Boban, young Gattuso and Diego De Ascentis - Sheva produced magic. So, no, you're wrong here.

But that still doesn't settles it, who was the better player. Ronaldo or Shevchenko?

Shevchenko hands down. Just saying. Though, I guess I'm biased.

Sheva for me was the greatest striker in the world during his Milan period.

I always thought that Sheva was a little underrated outside of Italy in his prime. If he was born let's say in Brazil instead of Ukraine, maybe he'd be getting more praise and hype.

Fair enough. I didn't follow Milan before 2000-2001. I was talking about the Milan I remember. the great midfield we had from ~2002 to 2007.

Sheva vs. Ronaldo? Very hard. But Ronaldo will always remain a Interista to me, while Sheva is our boy - that makes the edge to me.

Yup. He scored 24 goals in his first two seasons with us. Back then, we had quite a mediocre midfield.

I remember poor Don Cesare moving Serginho back and forth to cover up the wholes in our midfield. Gunti, even although he had his moments, wasn't clearly good enough while Albertini lost it. Sheva often did everything alone. When something was worked out, it was from the flanks/fullbacks.

Definitely.

Yeah, but could Sheva score this quick? Or dance like this? Or decimate Queen and U2's song like this and get away with it? Or nutmegg half a million people? Or do this? Or that? Or feed humble pie to United in their own kitchen? Or celebrate like this? Or shoot with both left and right like this? Or bring the house down in UEFArcelona in his first year?

But anyway, the biggest edge Ronaldo had (against any player, including Sheva) in my eyes was his medical condition. If I were him, I'd have stopped playing a long, long time ago. I already mentioned in another thread, what R99 suffered from, how it affected him, and how he carried himself through it. I can catagorically say that most other atheletes would have said goodbye to it all, it's nearly impossible to play like he did with the pain and hypothyroidia. Like I said, poor muscle tone, fatigue, cold intolerence, depression, muscle cramps, joint pains, weight gain and water retention in the body (along with decreased sweating) are just the early signs!

I mean take a look at him pre-injury (the Top 2 goal in the Barcelona video I posted above) and see how he was knocked down, got back up and teared the defense into tiny little smithereenes. And well, then life fudges you over - you get your knee broken, and then again, and then another one. You get fat, people call you name, and you still do what you have to do best - score. And then the people shut the fudge up. It's not about are the best because you play for Brazil - it's quite simple, actually: You have to be the best to play for Brazil NT. Or at least you used to.

In terms of raw footballing powress, Ronaldo for me wins hands down - even if I set aside my "bias glasses" for a minute. There was a time in say 1996 when the guy was the absolute best player in the world at that time (and this is in the age of well a lot of golden stars, unlike today). If it were not for his injuries, most pundits/critics agree that he would have been the very best of all time. As a fan, when I knew the ball was at his feet, I knew the goal wasn't far away. If you needed as sure-fire goal, give it to Ronnie, I used to say. And even Maldini too - in an interview he gave, he mentioned the only time they (Milan defense) were a tad concerned/feared was when they had to face and contain Ronaldo the inter menace.

Sheva was more of an all rounder (hence the number 7 jersey), while Ronaldo was a purely lethal killing machine (hence the jersey number 9). Their shirts matched their skills perfectly. Anyway, you have to be a special someone to play for and score against all of Milan, inter, Real and Barcelona, in the league, and this guy did it all. In that sense, his goal for us against inter in the derby will always be one of the most special one in my eyes. With left foot mind you, totally fooled the inter defense, including his NT teammate keeper, Cesar. Sheva struggled a bit, at least in his last two years here, and well his 2005 final misses were sad, should I say. But boy, if we could just have them at their peak playing together in a/our team. Don't ask. Don't even ask.

But hey, if there is any another player I rated after him, it's Shevchenko. "White Ronaldo" as he was called!

Fantastic!

Yeah, well I was outnumbered, Zed.D. Only Ash came out with the truth, and Fillipo thought really hard. The rest had already decided their minds. Which is fine by the way, both were outstanding players, some would say the best attackers of the last generation. Some would be very, very, right too.

Then you should educate yourself about Sheva's earlier days. In his first years in Milan he basically carried our pretty mediocre team alone. And even after, when we had a better midfield, you can't say that they made him look great, He wasn't the type of player who just waits in the penalty area for passes.

Earlier at Kiev, when he was about Pato's age, he had two great CL seasons with Kiev, with a midfield of unknown players to most, and almsot took them to CL final (narrow loss to Bayern in the semis) with some memorable performances like over Barca at Camp Nou ( a hat-trick in a 4-0 trashing) and knocked Real from the tournament in the 1/4 ( scored all 3 goals of his team vs them).

@acid, nice videos and to your question - yes he can and more. Type 'shevchenko' in youtube and you'll find plenty of material to work with

I know, right?! Though the nice gentleman Shevchenko was, I couldn't find him nutmegging anyone. Other than that, there are a lot of videos, highlights, clips and compilations. Enough for me to form an opinion that these two were the finest attackers of the last generation - all others follow in their wake. No matter what the name, they fall back.

Ronaldo still has an edge in my eyes due to his sheer will.. But anyway, it's a case of rating one 99 and the other 98!

I know most of that, everybody knows about his hat-trick at the Camp Nou. it's just that when I said that my mind wasn't focused on his early seasons.


Where did I say that?