oh no dont get me wrong i have changed my oppinion of galliani entirly and trust me i'm very much happy we got zambrotta but not happy at how much barca wants to overcharge thats all. I was having an arguement with giancarlo over something, dont worry i'm not pessmistic or anything. You remember beginning of the summer haha and now, i guess patience does have its pay off moments.

Yes it must be said that he did very very well (minus $h!tchel$ki)
I'd give him a 7.5
I'd add 1.0 if it were alves instead
I'd add 1.0 if it were Eto'o/Adebayor/sobis/Nilmar instead
I'd add 0.5 if we got a very fast.skillful LB

Carlo thinks otherwise. For him Brocchi is a big red bull, Gorcuff and Simic sheeps, and Dida an ox.

Janku cuts it in this department. On his day he's just about the best LB in the world. I only wish his days were longer and more regular.

I think Janku at his best, is just the dream fullback for Ancellotti's system. I don't know how good og an overlapper he is though. That would be Sergio. The only LB, that really made me go 'Yowzaa'. I mean in the LB world, if Maldini is Mozart, Carlos is Hendrix and Sergio is Jimmy Page.

He did terribly in today's game against Wisla was it? Completely absent from what I heard.

Stop trying to prove your case to me. You're not changing my mind on this subject.

I'm biased? That's hypocritical. Totally classless and hypocritical. I'm not biased. I look at the facts. If you don't like that... fine.

I'm not going to eat my words. He'll flop in a few years.

For one, they overpaid for him big time. I could care less about the stats. You dont' see us buying Dani Guiza because he scored a ton of goals for Mallorca. I'm sure if he played in a more defensively minded Serie A he would be chopped down over and over again. Robinho for example is gonna be destroyed in the EPL...

He can't defend for a damn. Quite a few surprises? Well he flopped today... so that just proves my point.

We didn't overpay for Zambrotta either. He'll be worth every penny because he's adapted to the Serie A better.

Finally, as far as Sergio Ramos... there is a guy I actually do like. He's totally underrated. No matter my ill feelings for the team he plays in, he's great and a class player...

yeah flop? okay we'll see im willing to put money on the line for this case. And why do you keep bringing up serie A and la liga in this because its a non factor issue. Stats and facts about his overall performance say that in the last 3 seasons alves has been a much better and overall influential player for sevilla and will be for barca. If you want to look at facts i can bring them up. and also whose the hypocrit you say you look at facts but you dont care about stats? aren't they the same thing....

They are two different leagues. Don't even try to tell me it doesn't matter! Oliveira did better in the La Liga, and flopped here in the Serie A. It's not a "non factor". Not even close to one. It's totally a factor. Zambrotta for example did not do well at all in the La Liga, yet in the Serie A he's adapt better. It's my opinion Alves would not make it in the Serie A and how closely marked players are. Nor would he make it in the Premier League either. The facts are what I brought up. You need to stop being so biased. If you care so much about stats, why haven't you been the biggest advocate for Milan buying Dani Guiza? Perhaps because he would end up like another Oliveira.

There is not one single fact that suggests Alves would not do well in Serie A or the EPL.

I think the one thing that annoys me is that Zambrotta was good in one league and terrible in another, but he's still considered a good player. But Alves is good in one league and bad in another (Which is just an assumption, may I add) and he's considered over-rated.

You also said in previous posts that Ronaldinho will be a good signing for us, on what basis? Oliviera, Jose Mari, Javi Moreno didn't transition well from Spain to Milan, so there is no reason Ronaldinho will either. To say Alves wouldn't do well over here, but Ronaldinho will is very hypocritical, there are no facts to suggest either will do well in Serie A, or that they will do badly either.

Anyways, to keep this post remotely on topic. I've not heard anybody really complain about the Zambrotta transfer, other than us over-paying for me, but with Sheva returning and taking the traitor label not many have mentioned that this guy is twice as bad as Sheva. Leaving your club in an okay position is one thing, saying you'll stay, then leaving your club in Serie B is another..

Don't think Zambrotta said that he'd stay. He was iirc one of the first who said, he'd stick no matter what the point deduction, but he would move come relegation.

He did move to Barca though and not Milan in his defence. He could have negated the transfer deal with Barca and insisted on staying in Italy. I thought Cannavaro and Zambrotta were rather graceful in their exits. As opposed to Viera and Zlatan, who moved to direct rivals, and then proceeded to make a few uncharitable remarks about their old club, before hastily taking it back.

Zambrotta: Juventino, even in Serie B

(From a Juve forum - but it's in Italian)


But didn't Sheva move to another country? I also don't remember hearing him say anything bad towards Milan, so basically his transfer was the same as Zambrotta', except two things: Sheva returned home, Zambrotta returned to Italy, to join a rival of Juve. Sheva left Milan with strikers like Gila and Pippo (Remmber, Gila had a very good season before Sheva left), Juve were left with.. er... I don't even know. Milan were left in a decent position, still in the Champions League. Juventus were in Serie B. His transfer was much worse than Sheva's, no question about it really.

Exactly.

@kurt, completely agree with you regarding the whole Zambrotta/Dani Alves issue.

As for how Zambro left, he never really wanted to go to Spain and it's been well documented that he was not happy with how he was sold but never really said anything bad regarding Juve, you can't really expect a player like him to have stayed at Juve once they were relegated it's the club's fault that they had gotten in the situaton in the first place, Cameronesi also wanted to leave but for some reason it never took off. Viera and Zlatan on the other hand totally classless in how they handled the whole thing, especially Zlatan

So Sheva's transfer is the same as Zambro's. So what's your point?

As for Juve...

Serie B, against the likes of Modena and Pisa...Trez, Del Piero, Nedved, Buffon hmmm....

Nope...it was still pretty much the same...besides Zambrotta's wasn't a shock move...and letting go of Zambrotta, Viera, Zlatan etc... meant that Juve could have had the other players play for them in Serie B without much of a wage drop. Not to mention, got them enough cash to reinforce when they did come back to Serie A.

The only issue is Zambrotta coming back to Milan, instead of Juve. If perhaps Juve had wanted Zambrotta, as badly as Milan wanted Sheva , things would have been different.

I'm not too much in doubt, that if Milan had been totally indifferent about Sheva, and instead gone on chasing Adebayor or whoever...we might be looking at Sheva starting with Cassano for Samp. What then?


Honestly..I don't see either of them as blood traitors. On a traitor level of 1-10, both would rank a lowly 5 for me.

Figo being number 10.

Hmm. I don't even see Sheva as a traitor at all, mainly because he never went to a rival. Figo, yes he is a traitor for what he did. Zambrotta, ultimately, yes, he's a traitor. Saying you'll stay with Juve and ending up at Milan is.. not good.

Gonna agree to disagree with you on this one, Kurt. Don't see much point in continuing to debate the issue though; doesn't seem folks are going to change their minds and, well, both Shevchenko and Zambrotta are Milan players now. It's time to support the team, even those players we may not especially like.

I suppose through the eyes of a Juve fan, in a twisted way it makes sense. But does the Juve fan think, Zambrotta would have turned down Juve if they had come calling? What is he supposed to do, if he wants to come to Italy. The list of clubs that want him, don't include Juve...and the second best club (probably the last of his career) is a top club?? Stay on in Barca?

Sheva was lucky we came calling....

Sheeva is a liar and a *****... and she maried a witch!

Sheva = Liar.
Zambrotta = Liar and Traitor.
Figo = Traitor.

That's it for me.

You mean he, right? Oh, my!

Nope for dst, Sheva is a girl coz he came back, too afraid to stick it out in Chelsea.

For anyone that wonders, ***** rhymes with witch...


Sheva is the same as Zambrotta... at least Zambro left the ship when it had already sunk not when it seemed it would sink...
Figo is a wh***...


What Jack said!


Captain knows his crew!

Hmm, I dunno.

for me:
Traitor = Going to a rival club.
Liar = Saying you'll stay, then leaving.

Figo did the former, Sheva did the latter, Zambro did both. He didn't directly go to Milan, but the fact is that he's a Milan player. It would have been like Sheva going from Chelsea to Inter, we's have hated him even more.

Exactly, for some on here:
Traitor = Leaving Milan

Okay, I agree, it's not the same.

Not me. My issue with him was lying about it before he left. Of course, his leaving just as Calciopoli was breaking didn't exactly help matters but it is what it is.

He's a Milan player now and even if I may not like him, I will support him while he's playign for the team.

It doens't matter who's a liar and who's a traitor....they're both crap. It's a symbiotic relationship where the only losers are us the fans. Zambrotta opportunistically left Juve to go to the "it" side at the time. It would be loke Kaka leaving us to go to ManU. Zambrotta's declining pace was exposed in La Liga and did not match Barca's tempo......his good performances- the most notable being shackling CR7 were few and I would like to remind all that it was his losing the ball that Assisted Scholes to score the goal that knocked them out in the forst place.....Like Gila I fear that Zambrotta can only flourish now (NOT THE ZAMBROTTA OF OLD) in a controlled environment.

The same goes for $heva. Unlike Pippo, $heva ISN'T a classical opportunist and doesn't increase his tally via 'scraps'. He isn't strong enough to fight with the likes of the Ferdinands/Campbells or Vidics. He needs the ball at his feet to make things happen....but with Lampard, Ballack, Essien and Drogba hogging the ball and all taking many shots he becomes starved for opportunities. $heva ruined his own speed by putting on too much muscle mass (overtraining) - a FACT that Marcel Desailly alluded to. Can't say that I blame him because Mourinho didn't like him anyway so I guess he might have trained extra to get the nod. I'm hoping that the Milan lab could help him regain his speed but given our recent faux pas with Kaka and the other Brazilians...I'm not holding my breath

We are now bringing these damaged goods to Milan.....are we supposed to be happy about it??
$h!tchel$ki seems to have lost his confidence. His shot selection is poor as is his accuracy. When strikers lose their confidence the ability to beat their man becomes diminished....something similar has happened to Rooney of late as well.

(this is the Sky version of the article; the Gazzetta version has the same quotes and is almost identical)



["Sheva? I wouldn't have brought him back to Milan. There are two important young players in Pato and Borriello and he could create upset (in the dressingroom). I think I wouldn't have brought him back." Alessandro Costacurta, ex Milan player and most recent addition to the Sky Sport team, comments sincerely on the return of Andriy Shevcheno. Costacurta will comment on Serie A matches and on some CL matches for Sky. "I'm an odd person and I decided to change direction. This opportunity was open to me and I decided to put off being a coach for a while. Seeing how well Vialli and the other commentators were doing, I decided to give it a try."]

link to Sky article.

link to Gazzetta article.

I like how a 26 year old Borriello is considered young. This guy has wasted half of his career doing absoloutely nothing.

I simply don't think he's the kind of player we can use.



It is my opinion that he's overrated. That's simply my own opinion and what I think of the guy. I don't like him and I would think there are other players.



No, this is not right.. Why? Ronaldinho is a world class player, and Oliveira never was. Ronaldinho will have no problem adapting to the Serie A.



We didn't overpay for Zambrotta...

Wow. How are the crap? Please tell me. I'd like to hear it. Zambrotta is not declining and the La Liga never suited him well. He never adapted to the style of play. It's no accident he's already settling into the team quite well. Zambrotta would get back to his old self in the Serie A.



Sheva doesn't need to have a ton of pace in the Serie A, because the Serie A does not RELY on pace. And this is all you do... complain, complain and complain.



How are any of these damaged goods? This is a view not many share. You're just angry because the players you wanted were not acquired. At Chelsea, Sheva wasn't ever given good service. He didn't fit in their bloody formation.

Gosh. Lots of bickering today. Here I thought people would be interested in Billy's comment.

well u knwo here again the luca toni theory applies that some players develop late

Explain how he could get back to his old self when his old self was two years ago @ Juve when he was younger Having crosses 30 sometime now and never having been an explosive player pace-wise (unlike Cafu who when we brought him in STILL had TONS of pace), the signs of him suddenly turning into Usain Bolt are worryingly small


We don't only play in Italy we are playing in Europe too and hopefully next year in the CL....having bought so many players with $heva included, what are the odds we'll buy a WC striker next year?


They're damaged because they BOTH show a marked decline in pace, strenght and in Zambrotta's case he has made some high profile errors....not what you want to see from a defensive player.....Your reasoning about $heva not fitting in our formation tells me at least two things:
1) He wasn't that good to start with.
2) Gila and Olivera were setting the world on fire pre-Milan.....how come you don't defend their lack of performance similarly??

He'll get back to what he needs to, and he has what it takes. He is already adjusting to our team and has proven that with recent performances. You just have now turned against him, because I like him and wanted him signed for Milan. You have a serious vendetta.



We play our own style, and that contrasts against other teams. Teams won't change their style even if they play teams of other leagues. We have the players we need.



No wrong. They are not damaged and can easily come back to original form. Zambrotta made some high profile errors in Barcelona because HE NEVER FIT in Barcelona or the La Liga for that matter. I'm sure he'll be perfect for Milan because of the way our team plays. Sheva is a great player, and you're just wrong on that in my opinion. He just did NOT fit in the way chelsea plays. That's just simply how it is.

Gila and Oliveira? I criticized them. But then again you're the one who wanted RAFAEL SOBIS, another Oliveira, to play at Milan.

Do us all a favor. Stop complaining all the time and stop personally attacking other people on here for having different opinions than your own.

It's hypocritical. You even have a picture in your avatar of a washed up striker that came to us when he was like 30 years old... and you have the audacity to criticize me? On what basis?

Thankyou for them.

I'm personally just annoyed at yet another poor co-ownership deal, that's put a spoiler on the day! It isn't my money, but it still is annoying to see the club throwing it away.

This is all your fault for bringing up that comment yesterday

No cookie for me?

All you say is these empty vacuuous inane things like "he will fit in", "he suits our style" and "he's right for us". All I am saying is that it's more effective for a modern fullback to be fast...especially one that is relied on soely for width creation. A team like ManU could get away with them (hence the G.Neville) because they have fast wingers. Milan has slow build up play in the middle so creation of width comes from the fullbacks. I don't have anything personal for Alves but player for player he's more of an asset than Zambrotta at the moment due to his speed and greater contribution to attacking wide play.

lolzzz Zambrotta made HIGH PROFILE errors @ Barca because he didn't fit in?? What kind of reasoning is that? If he didn't shine at Barca because he didn't fit in that's fine and understandable. But you're in effect saying that he slipped Scholes in that delightful through ball because he didn't fit in @ Barca lol!!Did he not also fit in at the Euros too??? His mistakes are called "blunders". They can happen anywhere and anytime...however increased frequency of these implies that there is a deeper problem.....I'll leave you to figure out what that was

Milan ACTUALLY BOUGHT Olivera AND Gila.....THEN found out they were crap- not my fault
Milan TRIED to buy Rafael Sobis but got edged out by Betis- also not my fault
Sobis scored more than Pato with FAR less minutes- again no fault of the dru
YOU ARE predicting Sobis will fail here and are using this prediction based on opinion to argue with me......YET you throw a fit when I predict Alves would excell at Milan.....well that's not fair is it?


may the fishdoll promptly ban me if I have personally attacked anyone personally

lol well at least MY washed up striker scored/assisted when he played ...for any team in any league and for country...Oh and he arrived here at an age nearly two years younger than $h!tchel$ki, having won the golden boot in MULTIPLE EUROPEAN LEAGUES. I understand that because he is thrown out like garbage (a la Crespo) you think this decision is 100% right

I say these things? He's already doing so. And he's playing quite well in friendly games. That's a fact. You simply will not accept the facts here because I like the player. You do not like him because of that reason. You have tihs vendetta that will never end. I'm personally sick and tired of it. For one, Zambrotta was never comfortable at Barcelona. He will be more comfortable playing at Milan. Alves is useless... Zambrotta is the better player for Milan. Due to his greater contribution to attacking wide play? You can't back that up. Alves was at best poor against Wisla.



THIS is absolutely wrong, in my opinion. Zambrotta made high profile errors because he never fit into the way Barcelona played. He was in poor form at Barcelona because of that reason. If you can't connect the two together there is no need to discuss this with you. You're just angry and upset because someone holds a different opinion than you do. You're just angry and upset I hold a different opinion. He doesn't make many blunders.



I don't care what you think. Rafael Sobis is crap like Oliveira and Gilardino. You can't prove anything about Sobis. Alexandre Pato has played half of a season in one of the most defensive leagues in the world. Sobis would flop just like Oliveira because the two are a lot like. I go by similarities. Sobis is playing in a second rate team, just as Sobis did... and they are similar. I think that Alves would bomb in Milan... you're the one putting up a fit. You're angry and upset that I post my opinions.



He was done for. He was totally washed up. Shevchenko is far better than he is. Ronaldo's done because he's done for! He lost himself to poor diet and poor discipline! You keep looking at the past, yet you cannot look at the future.

Hypocritical I think. Then you have the audacity to attack Sheva by calling him stupid names.. you have no effect here. You're just incredibly negative and you have offered nothing constructive. Not only that it is also my observation, that you COMPLETELY REFUSE to listen to the facts.

Guys, please at least keep the bickering on-topic.

Don't worry, I'm pretty much done arguing with this guy. He's perhaps the most negative I've encountered and I don't think he has the best intentions for Milan. I swear, if some on these forums had their way we'd be a lower table team and maybe even relegated to the Serie B. Then our team would go the way same as Leeds.

lol I have nothing against you. YOU continue to accuse me of attacking you personally and still can't come up with a single quote Alves as far as I understand and as far as goal.com ratings go was decent. Either way Barca already won. To use a meaningless game to judge a player is beyond pathetic....wait......you've already done that by saying Zambrotta fits in well @ Milan despite the poor crossing AND the fact that we LOST almost all of our preseason games

All I can prove is that he scored more with waay less minutes. I don't think he's better than Pato but he can't be that bad could he?


I really appreciate your logic (see bold)...so by your reasoning....$heva's great because he's great??? By chance did you write the matrix trilogy script??

I'm going to keep going after you because I feel you're completely wrong. He was terrible on that return leg of Wisla. Totally absent from what I heard. Besides that, this was not exactly a meaningless game. By the way, Zambrotta is fitting in much better. and we didn't lose most of our preseason games. You live in an obvious fantasy. Who cares about Gijon in the first place? There was much more to take from those games, and the fact was we were missing most of our players.

Zambrotta was also playing really well towards the end of the pre-season. That's a fact.



You didn't prove anything, nor does that matter. You still can't take into account the Serie A is more defensive meaning he'll probably flop here. Pato is miles better than him.



I gave you my reasons shortly after why. If you can't address the facts don't bother responding to what I'm posting.

Now we know who's taking it personally
So you REALY think Wisla had a chance of erasing a 4-0 deficit vs Barca....please elaborate oh this


Do you even read what you write? We lost 5-0 to Chel$ki, 1-0 to Man City and 2-0 to Gijon. Who else did we play other than Cremose for more than 45 minutes?

Oh now you put it that way I guess there's no argument is there? Even Dunga noticed how well he played in tight spaces. They're not the same type of player I think they'll complement each other Congrats on the use of the word 'probably' your posts are approaching some semblance of balance

After not getting Kurt vs R7 off the ground, I've finally found myself a new show: Drucurl vs Giancarlo. Keep going guys, it's all good listening to your arguments and counterarguments; as long as you keep it civil, there should be no problem.

PS. Maybe Ronaldo's done for, but I haven't seen a striker more lethal than him. Don't think I will too.

I said nothing about the result. I thought Alves was totally absent in the match and was quite poor actually.

Yes but we won the TIM trophy, and the Trofeo Berlusconi. The Chelsea game was a fluke considered we played with Andrea Pirlo and Ambrosini as strikers, and that was before quite a bit of our transfers concluded. Secondly, most of our new players were not playing. We played Juventus a full 90.

You have a selective mind. Man oh man, if you were in charge, we'd be in the Serie C playing Cremonese every season lol.



Sobis is good in tight spaces? Why do you insist on making things up like this? Sobis has no place in the Milan squad. Italy is too defensive for him. Just like I would be against Milan getting... say... Robinho.

Billy has a point. I'd said this before, the only worrying thing about Sheva's return is that he might disrupt Pato's progress. especially we all know Carlo prefers an old and proved player in the form of Sheva over a young and inexperienced one any day of the week I'd be really pissed off if that happened.

There is way too much pressure on him to not use Pato... besides that I'm sure we can play with two strikers... Pato and Sheva...

I'm not so sure about that. When Pato was cleared to play for Milan in January, there wasn't much competition, Ronaldo got injured and Pippo was already out, while Gila has pretty much been dropped. As soon as Pippo recovered from injury, however, he dropped Pato in order to field Pippo, so I think Zd has a point..