Is it possible that Pioli's training regime is doing us harm?

Because I agree regarding Leao with what X-O said.

Considering our injury record I'm surprised you're so bullish on this issue. I personally think we were risking him if we had kept playing him so much. And that's not a risk worth taking, especially with Rebic out as well.


Was about to come to this on x-off's reply, but you mentioned it before.

I really don't know what's going wrong, but something obviously is. You can't attribute so many injuries to simple bad luck.

Kjear's injury for example, you can put it down to that, knocks and other similar injuries the same thing.

But we've had a lot of muscular injuries as well. I don't know if the training is very intense, or the prep is not good enough, but something is wrong, and if the club does not look into it it will continue to be our Achilles heal. X-off mentioned EPL clubs, and that is true, they have more games and play at higher tempos. Inter rarely have injuries as well and they have a similar schedule to ours

Injuries have nothing to do with what we're talking about.

If he was fatigued then it could lead to an injury... Avoiding injuries one of the most important factors when it comes to rotation. Especially with such a hectic schedule

Rotation is mainly undertaken to rest certain players, as fatigue can lead to underperformance. It's just a very small factor when it comes to injuries. That's why I brought the Premier League example.

Messias played 36 full games with Crotone last season, he wasn't injured once. Rebic incurred a muscular injury in training after attempting a rudimentary back heel pass that's leaving him out for a month, and he was coming from another month out due to an ankle distortion.

It's all about player profiles, athletic preparation and training regimes. There's something very wrong with us in that regard.

When will Calabria and Rebić be back?

Maybe against Napoli but most probably after the break.

We are terrible.

The defense is totally destabilized. Theo is having a nightmareish season so far?

Awful from Bennacer.

Amateurish defending

We're set up very weirdly.

Our midfield collapses without the wingers being there.

We have no gameplan and no idea. Bakayoko is horrible, Bennacer and Diaz are also very bad.

Brahim Diaz failing to spit and ending up spitting on himself is the perfect definition of this undone player?

What is your obsession with Brahim??

He was immense for us at the start of the season but seems to have fallen off since returning from Covid, that is true, but same can be said of Theo who has not returned the same since either

The entire team seems to have taken a massive hit. We've not been the same since the Fiorentina game. I'm worried that we could go into the winter break in 4th at this rate..

Too many injuries, no continuity, never have been able to play the same team twice in a row all season. This is all starting to take a toll

Pioli's decisions today imo were also baffling. I do not understand the need to pair Bennacer and Bakayoko. Come January it will be Tonali and Bakayoko as our only midfield options. If you want to give time to Baka, pair him with the midfield partner he'll have all of January. Him and Benna clearly don't work together imo. And I also do not understand the need for rotating that pivot in this game in particular! We had Genoa and Salernitana and he plays Tonali and Kessie. But decides to f@ck about with the team against Sassuolo and Udine. Two of our biggest thorns in the league.

Krunic on the wing is also just unacceptable.

Bennacera I feel like he's letting him down now. He's literally drove his form right into the ground, and this comes down to how Pioli is using him imo

And Bakayoko... Just really bad. And absolutely horrifying to think that he'll be one of only two options in that midfield during January. He's been one of the biggest culprits in our current run of self-inflicted pain. Today another error leading directly to an opponent scoring. Same thing we did against Fiorentina, Sassuolo, Liverpool. Something is clearly not right. I don't know if it's mental fatigue but Pioli has to work to make sure that this team can regroup and get back to where they were a month ago or things could spiral

Paolo saying we're staying as we are in winter gives me actual stomach pain. Our attack is so weak. We need a better winger, we need an alternative to Diaz, and we need an alternative to Ibra. An all action striker who'll create problems with movement to the opposing team. Rebic gave us that but he's becoming too unreliable with all the injuries

Didn't watch the game but the result doesn't surprise me. This team has been on a downward spiral ever since the Fiorentina game. Perhaps the real facts are emerging now, that we are not as good as we thought we were, and that during the last 1-2 years we've been massively overachieving.

Udinese are a downright crap. They concede a shitload of goals, and just fired their coach due to terrible results. To think we couldn't get the 3 points, with only ONE shot on target for the whole match, is simply baffling.

Oh well, gotta get used to it now.

PS: Messias' name being spelled Meessias on his shirt is the epitome of our ridiculousness.

Oh and great, I read Bakayoko was responsible for the goal conceded. Again. Pioli, you are a joke.

EDIT: Saw the goals, Bennacer with an equally awful pass there. I just hope his time in the AFCON will help me regain form and confidence, cos right now this very talented player is completely lost.

We have 8 players out

I saw Inter fans crying about how unlucky they are because they have 2. We've basically been in crises mode all season barring the first 2 weeks maybe. And even then we didn't have a full squad.

I don't know. Maybe we aren't as good as the table says but at some point the constant injuries and never being able to field the same 11 in 2 consecutive games will start to take it's toll. There's clearly a weariness and mental fatigue is starting to set in. We've never been able to achieve any continuity. The fact that we're where we are is a miracle.

Bakayoko is seriously worrying. And I get why Pioli is starting him, I just don't get why he's choosing the games he is to start him in. Especially when we had 2 freebies against Salernitana and Genoa. Why play him against Sassuolo and Udine. 2 teams who always give us major trouble.

His rotation has not been good. And starting Krunic on the wing is an equally big offense.

As for Udine. They're a decent side that just changes managers. That new manager boost was always going to be a factor.


Bennacer needs continuity, Pioli imo has handled him terribly. He has amazing chemistry with Kessie, yet he's rarely ever played them together this season...

I don't know, I feel like we're just self-inflicting wounds all of a sudden. All these point we've lost in the last few weeks were because of individual errors, Pioli is not making the best decisions, and our fitness staff keeps letting us down

I really think we have to dip into the market and get 3 players - minimum this January

A creative winger/AM is a must
A mobile striker
A midfielder to replace Kessie
A CB

Yes sure, let's blame it all on injuries cos that's the easiest thing to do, instead of admitting that we suck balls.

We've made 8 points in the last 6 games, 6 of which against Genoa and Salernitana.

We have a coach who plays Bennacer and Bakayoko in the worst games possible, and a dud like Krunic is his answer for an offensive winger.

We concede so, so many goals from individual errors it's a constant at this point.

We rely on a 40 year old to solve our problems.

We have a management whose choices this summer to give depth to the team (Florenzi, Ballo-Toure, Bakayoko, Giroud, Pellegri) have resulted in a massive failure.

We play abominable football worthy of a mid-table team.

We got players not renewing their contracts and running from the club as if they can smell the sh*t.

We have an ownership that has zero intention of investing to make the club great again and only cares about the finances.

We got a 1001 issues going on, but of course it's dem injuries fault.

Didn't say it was all about the injuries. But they are a major factor for all of our problems imo

Compare how we were playing the first 2 months of the season to this last month. Night and day. So we know we can produce very good performances, capable of beating anyone in the league since we basically won all of our difficult ties but we're now floundering against beatable opposition. We've seem to have hit a wall. You can simplify things and say that we suck, but you know it goes deeper than that and there are factors which have attributed to this


Like I said, we've hit a wall, and it seems to have started after that Fiorentina game. We've proceeded to lose more players since then. We just cannot catch a break with the personnel situation. Of course this will lead to what we're seeing now. I've said since the Porto matches that we should toss the CL games. That Atletico game gave us and the team false hope, and we've expanded energy and risked players we shouldn't have for a lost cause.


I mentioned both these points as well.

Piolo also needs to regroup. I feel like he's also hit a wall. But again, I simply cannot blame him when he's never had the full squad at his disposal. And things have never really improved in this department, just steadily got worse.


Well, why is this? Because of injuries. We have our entire forward line out barring Ibra. That's what happens when you're in a never ending injury crises. Last season we practically only had Kessie for a month in the midfield, this season it's happening with the attack. If Ibra goes down, we're well and truly f@cked


This is what happens when you're working with a limited budget. You have to compromise. I think Florenzi and Giroud are okay for rotation, the other 3 have proven to be utter duds.

The problems arise when you're forced to rely on these rotation players to be regular starters


Once again, this wasn't the case at the start of the season. We just have not been able to obtain any continuity. Players in and out of the team all the time. Some stupid rotations in the middle of the pitch didn't help either. But we all know this team is capable of playing very good football and wining big matches. We've just lot that spark this past month. I really hope the winter break will allow the team to recharge and re-discover that spark


Theo, Benna and Leao are all going to renew. We know Hakan is a major snake from his time in Germany. And Donna has been problematic from day 1. Kessie is my only question mark. I do not understand what happened with him

But I am glad to see that the management has learned from previous mistakes and are making sure to renew players early and not allowing contracts to run down anymore. Let's see if Kessie is the last one to do this now.

Do we? Cos even in those first two months we weren't exactly pretty to watch. Efficient, yes, but that can last so long.

And you keep saying we've hit a brick wall mentally, physically etc. and then you again blame it all on injuries. You may circle around it and mention other things, but it's still your go-to argument for this situation we find ourselves in. And I say, it is a factor no doubt, but not a major one.

Because, many great teams in Europe have a line up of 15-16 players they mainly rely on, so it's not like they need a 30-man roster to stay competitive. Rotation is also seldom used except in national cup games. Hence, fatigue can never be an excuse for poor results. If your players are fatigued so frigging early in the season simply because they've played too often (which is their fucking job), then you are just terrible at training. Which I honestly feel Pioli is, and the injuries we all seem to be obsessed with are a result of very poor training regimes and a terrible athletic preparation.

But nevertheless, in all these games we've had absences, we've rarely found ourselves in a situation when we had 5-6 starters out. It's always been 2-3 players out, and then other 2-3 players out, and so on. Last night for example, only Calabria and Leao/Rebic were out. It was a 9/11 starting line up, which Pioli obviously fucked up with his midfield choices.

Inter had to play with Ranocchia, D'Ambrosio and Di Marco in defence for many games, yet they've won comfortably without conceding. We had Gabbia in one match and started to cry that Tomori wasn't available.

The team is simply lost, mentally and also physically. Pioli is doing a terrible job, many players are not stepping up, and as a result the real qualities of this bunch of mostly mediocre players are starting to show. Let's not kid ourselves. Injuries can be a factor, but never a justification.

Man, you're massively overreacting.

If that's your way of saying you disagree with me, fine.

It's not a matter of disagreement. You're just blowing things out of proportion because in your head you debate with Adani, Vieri and the guys you mentioned from the podcast. Here at MF no one thinks this is a world class team that can conquer Europe or that we play fantastic modern football.

But let's face it. Serie A is a shithole without the extras (Ronaldo, Chiellini-Bonucci, etc.) Juventus usually has. And in this shithole, because Juventus isn't doing good, we (and Inter, Napoli - also not modern or reliable teams) have a shot at winning the scudetto. Are we in the process of witnessing a grand rebirth of Milan? I don't know. I don't have exactly high hopes, but to win the scudetto isn't what it used to be.

Also you're seriously underestimating factors like injuries and inexperience/youth. This is classic for all young teams, such mood swings and drops of form.

That being said, you do strike some valuable points:

1) I think our management dropped the ball this summer. Almost all signings we made failed to make impact or make us better. Pellegri and Ballo-Toure are deals that ended up completely useless. Bakayoko so far is a big disappointment but at least this signing I can understand. Mike has been doing mostly good contrary to my feelings. Bringing just Diaz for Hakan was another crucial mistake. Messias is okay but not good enough.

They also made a mess out of these contract situations. I disagree with all here re Hakan (what did he exactly do in Germany?) and Donna. I think we should have done anything to keep Donnarumma at Milan. We should have given Hakan the needed raise and also keep him with us. You guys tried to diminish his impact at Inter but this month he has been thriving and I think this will only continue. Look at the head-to-head with Diaz in Serie A:

Brahim
Apps 13
Goals 3
Assists 3

Hakan
Apps 14
Goals 5
Assists 5

Not being able to sign Kessie (while not being able to sell him fast as well), taking it long with Bennacer and Romagnoli as well is more then worrisome. The team balance and mental picture is put under pressure for reasons unknown (perhaps mostly lack of planning).

2) Pioli, after singing the new contract, has failed to deliver massively. He is completely off balance with his decision-making. Rather then playing his golden boy Krunić as DM when necessary he still forces Bakayoko and then also in tandem with the shaky Bennacer. He constantly subs in one DM for another and denies continuity and consistency.

His choices re Florenzi, Kalulu or when to play whom also leave much to be desired. At season start he gave Maldini much more chances, yet now that Diaz is quite obviously struggling badly to create he leaves Daniele mostly out.

It's also very clear that Pioli has no B option and no tactical flexibility left. When in a position with many key players lacking, he just forces players to play unusual positions rather then trying out something new with the cards he was dealt.

I honestly believe most Milan fans have overestimated this team. Because, as you said, the Serie A is a shithole of a league and we've seen ourselves challenging for the top spots in the last year and a half, we consciously (or unconsciously) constructed this idea in our head that we have become competitive again. But the brutal truth is that we are nowhere near to being competitive. Not world class, for goodness sake no, nobody has ever thought of that.

Inter have a really good thing going on for them. I would put them many steps above everyone else. They are carrying the excellent semblance of a competitive team conceived under Conte which I thought they would lose after his and Lukaku and Hakimi's departures. But despite some questionable replacements they are still a force to be reckoned with in Italy. They're even playing better under Inzaghi.

Everyone else (us, Napoli, Atalanta, Juventus) are just scrapping for crumbs. We may and most probably finish in the top 4 again, but unless we make some decent signings we're not going anywhere.

Nowhere near competitive for what? Champions league? Sure. Serie A? Are you kidding me? Sure we are. That's the main point: I really don't get what you're talking about. Milan, this current Milan, is competitive enough to fight Serie A. This is what Milan fans expect, this is what is happening. What I really don't get is what you expected?

And yes, Inter is better. They also started their rebuild earlier and have an advantage. They are in year 5 after the Suning takeover and have invested more then a billion Dollars into the club.

We are being controlled by a hedge fund, which nevertheless is steering us into the right direction.

You honestly think we can fight for the Scudetto? With this team? Against this Inter?

We'll be 10 points behind come February. Come on man, let's be realistic here. We'd be lucky to get in the top 4, and that's only possible because the competition is pretty mediocre as well.

I circle back to the injuries because imo they are the cause for the brick wall

Just look at Napoli as a simple example. They are JUST now going through a rough patch with injuries and they've basically folded within the space of 3 weeks.

Like you said, most teams rely on a small core group of players and they don't tend to rotate a lot or have many absences. We have never had that luxury. Maybe the preparation is not good enough I do not kno what is wrong as I am not an expert in such matters. But this has clearly over the course of the season, effected our overall performances which have dropped off a lot in the last month or so.

Btw, Inter have rarely had any injury problems. And they're currently on an easy run of fixtures that they were obviously going to win.

They obviously have the better overall squad and they rarely have absences.

The rotation on Pioli's part I can only assume is to avoid injuries, but it is hurting us more than anything else. The constant switch ups in the double pivot being the biggest culprit.

And btw, we've never had bad injury problems? Talk about trying to demean something to make your point. We've had games where we had to play Krunic in the double pivot due to Covid and injuries. We've had to play Krunic on the wing because Leao and Rebic are both out. We've had to play with Ballo-Toure in our biggest ties this season which clearly hurt us. Last Saturday we only had ONE attacker available, ONE.

Now we've lost Kjaer, arguably our leader at the back. If it's not injuries, it's Covid. We've never had a full squad at the coach's disposal. I do not understand how you can say that this is only a small factor.

I agree with Filippo, you're overreacting. People forget where this team comes from. The dream is the Scudetto, but I don't think we're ready for that with the team as it is now. We'll probably get 2nd again this season. Which imo is good enough considering where we were when Pioli took over.

I think the management let him down with their choices. But there's only so much that can be done when the budget is set to a certain amount

I think we can still make a push if the right moves are made in January though. And that's all I want from this group right now.


How many of those goals/assists from Hakan came from set-pieces/pens?

We've experienced Hakan purple patches before and we've also experienced the bad come-downs. Look I was one of the biggest, STAY proponents for Hakan this summer. But the man is a low class POS who never deserved to be at Milan to begin with. Inter is the perfect place for him. Just a month ago Inter fans were already getting on his back, and now that he's scored a penalty against us and popped in a couple of goals against Serie B level sides he's suddenly the 2nd coming of Messi. I'm so over this Hakan debate.

We just need to bring in an alternative to Diaz in January. Diaz is clearly struggling for form atm and hasn't returned from Covid with the spark he had at the start of the season. He and Rebic up front were a massive part of why we were so good imo. We've really taken a hit since losing them to injury/covid and Diaz not returning at his best


You make Inter sound like they're some sort of dream team

Once again I point to Napoli. All it takes is a stroke of bad luck, and suddenly they lose Osimhen, Anguissa, Ruiz, Kulibali and Insigne. And the drop off is major. And some of these injuries were ridiculously unlucky events like Osimhen's facial injury. You talk about how great Inter are, but I really want to see how they're do for an extended period of time without the likes of Barella, Brozovic, Skriniar, etc. Because both us and Napoli have lost the same equivalent of players (in terms of importance) and have suffered for it.

We'll see what happens. We could be seeing the dip we saw last season in January a bit earlier. I don't know how we'll bounce back after a tough few weeks, luckily the break is around the corner and we can regroup and stop the slide so to speak

Also, Filippo made an excellent point which I wanted to circle back to

Inter are ahead of us at this point in their rebuild. This is their 4th year in the CL, and only now they're managed to make the KOs. This is our first year, and we couldn't have been handed a sh!ttier group if it were hand picked for sh!ts and giggles.

But those extra 3 years in the CL is the reason why they have the much better squad. I don't understand why we could be so patient for nearly a decade of banter era Milan, but now that we're within touching distance it's suddenly all or nothing. We're great one week, we're sh!t the next. Can't there be a more substantive reason for why we're seeing these dips? Like constant personnel change and zero continuity and the factor Filippo also mentioned of having a very young and inexperienced squad which can easily go through great highs but also some bad lows

We had to play Krunic in the double pivot only twice and we won both games, against Sampdoria and Lazio.

Krunic on the wing is a pure invention of our coach, because Saelemaekers has always been available and he can play there no problem. He's a starter, no?

We played Ballo-Toure in the most important game of the season? Well, boo-hoo, blame your management for providing such a shitty alternative to Theo.

I didn't say injuries are a minimal issue. They piss me off beyond words. I said they are a factor, but they can never be the main reason of why we're playing so badly. You and many other fans are utilising them as an excuse because you simply don't want to admit how mediocre this team really is.

We're overachieving, we're not scudetto material, and we're good enough for the first top 4 spots simply because Serie A is garbage. But hey, you can think whatever you like. I'm not here to shove it down your throats.

Baka isn?t the same as the player we had before, even his spell at Napoli was bad. Think this winter Milan need to bring in someone else, maybe not permanent but a stop gap till Bennacer and Kessie are back (unless the later is sold this winter, then a permanent solution).

Maldini made moves in the summer, some were good business, some were bad business. Baka was bad business along with Relying solely on Diaz.


That said, still believe Milan has a good chance this season to improve, maybe a 2nd place finish or better yet a Scudetto. It all depends on this winter window and the recovery of injuries.

Again a winter transfer window is due

We've played Krunic on the wing when both Leao and Rebic have been out or we've played him as an AM when Diaz was out. All of which is far from an ideal situation. And yes, we had to play Krunic there for just 2 games. But that means we were oushed into doing that because 3 players were out at the same time who play that position. That's my entire point. If it's not a probelm in one area it's a problem in another. We simply have never been able to gain any sort of continuity. Circling back to injuries. And that takes it's toll

I'm not going to argue with you about the quality of this team. I think first 11 we're up there with Inter and Napoli in terms of quality. We have decent depth in certain areas while in other it's pretty sh!tty. We all knew this heading into the season as most of us were not happy with how we entered the new season

I thought we made a mistake letting Hakan go, even today I say good riddance to bad rubbish.

We are not the best team in the league, I never had any illusions on that front. I disagree that we're massively overachieving as well. But it goes to show that the fanbase is having a meltdown after a draw to Udine and 2 other bad results, how far this team has come. That we have such high standards today.

I want us to get to the break in decent shape so we can use the time off to regroup and come back strong again just like we entered the season. We'll have most of the players back when we return. So the outloook is not as dire as you're painting it.

So, which one is it?

Inter have a very, very solid team. Their starting line-up is filled with quality players all around. Napoli likewise to an extent. But above anything else, they play very decent football. And that's the recipe for success.

We play our game based on individualities, not based on the collective. And when such individualists don't deliver (Theo, Bennacer, Kessie, Brahim, Zlatan etc.) then we're left with our dicks in our hands.

As things stand Milan are a point off 1st place. The season is a marathon and Milan has been plagued with injuries, I am convinced if a CB is brought in to replace Kjaer, the recoveries of both Rebic and Leao along with a new player as attacking midfield (and maybe a striker as understudy to Zlatan and Giroud, though I find this to be too much of an ask, especially given both Giroud and Zlatan are good enough for this season), then Milans chances for a top four finish are very kuch alive. Who knows maybe a Scudetto if it comes down to details.

Injuries have been occurring for over a year and a half now, and they will continue for the rest of the season. Until management properly addresses this issue by overhauling the athletic preparation team and training methods.

Zlatan blames part of the problem on Milanello's new terrain in his latest book which came out this week.

Ibrahimovic believes new pitch at Milanello is to blame for some of Milan's injury problems

Shevchenko is having a bad month at the office, he lost all games in charge. Hope the winter transfer window comes to allow him to shuffle a little and secure them Serie A safety.

So sad for this legend who with Ukraine did a lot.

Sorry wasn't clear there

Should have said squad

For me, first 11 I think we're on par with Inter and Napoli who imo have a very good first 11. Probably even more talented than Inter's

But as a squad, Inter obviously have the deepest one and rarely have any injuries. So for me, they are the best squad in the league in terms of personnel and back room staff as well.


Hmm, I don't know much about grass and terrain, but I saw a tweet from Football Italia the other day which highlighted the abnormality of our injury situation. It said the following:

The sheer extent of Milan?s injury problems has been laid bare, as since September 2020 their players missed over 100 more games than any other Serie A side in the top five and 52% of those injuries were related to the flexor and thigh

But then today I see updates that Theo apparently has flu symptoms and has been running a fever (didn't he have a fever before the Liverpool game as well??), while Tomori got hit by furniture in his home due to the earthquake that happened in Milano and is also injured and in doubt...

I mean, there's bad practices and then there's just sheer bad luck!! How the f@ck can you make this shi!t up??

I'm sorry, but over 100 games MORE than any other team in the division missed due to injury and you wonder why this team is buckling under the pressure.

We should be very grateful that Pioli has steered this ship so well that we're so high up the table under such conditions



I feel sorry for Sheva, he showed quality with the Ukrainian NT imo but he could not have picked a worse job. Plus Genoa had the mother of all bad schedules since he took over

Say what???

Pioli's words. Let's hope so.

He also said Theo is more no than yes for tomorrow, but missing the current Theo won't really make much of a difference.

I won't be able to watch the game cos I have a dinner, but I really hope we somehow manage to get the 3 points cos Napoli are in a very bad moment with many injuries as well.

Saw it on twitter, though was in a hurry when I read it.

But it would be just our luck

Romagnoli also running a fever apparently

So we're looking at a Florenzi-Gabbia-Tomori-Toure back line...

Shoot me now

I don't understand why Kalulu is not used ahead of Gabbia. Clearly he is more ready to be starting. Especially in such a big game


We'll see. But sometimes you really cannot make contingencies for Covid, or the f@cking flu, or someone bumping their hip in training.

As for Theo. I know he's been bad since returning from Covid, but a one legged Theo with fever is still better than Toure

I don't think we'll play Toure anyhow. I'd rather pick Conti for crying out loud!

And well I really think we should do something re this injury crisis. Have y'all seen the latest articles stating how many injuries and absentees we had compared to other teams? It's a shocker.

When will Rebić get back? How is it possible that our team lost 50% of our starters due to muscular injuries? Someone must get to the bottom of this.

Yeah, there was a quote I posted above. Apparently our players lost 100 more games than any other top 5 side in the league. Most of them being thigh and flexor problems.

And you wonder why we can't keep up with Inter...


As for the LB. It will be Toure if Theo isn't available.

Why not Conti though?

Conti hasn't played a single minute this season, he's not part of the project. Besides, Conti is not a left back.

And yet again I trust him more then Toure.

Hernandez has been excluded from the called-up players after initially being included due to fever.

Great

It's scary how all over the place we are

Doesn't surprise me.

Messias is awful.

Milan makes creating a chance, let alone a shot on goal, look like rocket science. Pioli wake up. Your system isn't working with Pizza delivery boy and Krunić as wingers.