It is simply because United have a far greater reach than Milan, this due simply by the 'fame' the club has. For example United is a household name, hence they can negotiate for better deals whether with Nike or Adidas. While Milan have a marginal influence in comparison.

We all love Milan, and want it to be on a par with all the others. Its convenient to just say Berlusconi is the reason, but is it really? Or is it just the coincidence that the club 'naturally' is not supposed to be considered a top club? We all like to think by default Milan is the best simply because we have 7 CL titles and a rich history? Does that suffice?



But then United have greater Revenue than we do, they have sold out (their own) stadium all-round the season, they have strong demand for TV viewings, they have lesser tax expenses to name a few. We would be doing injustice to Milan if we compare the two. Hence why we can not spend one tenth of what United, Chelsea or even Liverpool spend.

Aren't United a Nike team?

Your comparing Chelsea to Milan? Don't be silly Danny, EPL is lightyears away from Serie A (like comparing Serie A to the EPL in the late 80s).

Facts I was looking for pertains to FFP and the respective clubs.

PS. Market value has no direct correlation with what the club can spend, yet it correlates well with the bargaining power of the respective club for commercial deals, TV deals and the likes.

Not anymore

Sick of your trolling.

Until summer 2015, yup. The new deal doesn't kick in for another year. Meaning this 100M R7 is on about won't arrive till then. But they still spend millions and millions. Can't help but feel he just wants a reaction at all times.

Then by all means, just block me

We should keep this discussion calm. No need to go personal in this one

They're still a nike team as of now, so like Danny said that money has not come in.

You're not THAT bad. You're just playing devil's advocate a lot and it's quite transparent.

Until I call someone a pop-eye balding git there's nothing personal here

Manchester signed an agreement with Adidas.

Yeah, but let's not call names either. Keep up the high level of discussion.

It does not suffice, but I dare say it still suffices to far from where we are now. I've got several questions for you in order to understand your stance, so please excuse for the amount of questions:

1) what do you think lacks Milan to be the best and what makes a team enter this gremium?

2) do you think Berlusconi has done the maximum in the last 5-10 years for Milan or was there any room for improvement in terms of financial, transfer and overall policy?

3) how do you think the clubs close future will look like?

Yeah, but as I said, as of now, they're still a Nike team, they're not getting paid by Adidas to strut around the field in Nike gear. So as of yet, that money that R7 is mentioning hasn't come in yet

1 ) What Milan lacks is for Serie A to be on a par with the EPL/Bundesliga. There are a lot of restrictions and limitations which Milan suffer from just as inter and the rest. This issue should not be overlooked, as it is critical to the club's ability to get back on top and the main reason why I give this management the benefit of the doubt.

2 ) Silvio has built the foundations for this club, and not just funded for the squad. Of course in hindsight anyone could argue that he could have done that or the other. But a club with on average 70M in losses per year, it is evident that the demand is no longer there, and that no matter what squad is fielded Milan will remain bleeding from the bottom-line (even this shambles of a team gave us a loss).

Had Silvio not spent the aggregate 1Bn on Milan's training facility and the squad to-date, he could have done an Arsenal from the very beginning. At least by doing so, we would not be in a quagmire, where we 'believe' we are big but in reality we can not even attract decent names. But I don't think you would trade those ten or twenty years for one year as an Arsenal Hence our quagmire.

Since 2008, when FFP was first being discussed. Then in 2010 when it first kicked in, to-date within the first three years of monitoring period, Milan has dismantled and started to operate on a lower cost basis. The same is still on a reduction, and I believe the reduction will be even more aggressive now considering no Europe for us.

3 ) Our immediate future is geared towards optimizing our income and cultivating in-house talent (hence no trophies on the horizon so far). No longer are we in the market to sign Shevchenko, Rui Costa or Kaka. If a chance arises then rest assured it will happen, but Milan wont be there to even entertain because if the transfer cost was acceptable then the wage surely is not.



Missing the point again. It is not the point whether that money comes in today or in 12 years.

It is a contract, signed only months apart, each binding both Milan and United. Milan get 20M a year and United get 100M a year - What was to be noted here was United's immense bargaining power.

Or would you like to discuss United's income? Cause they have just had an new Chevrolet deal, would you like to know how that varies to our Emirates deal?

Would love to have an enlightened discussion with people, except when the replies turn personal, as if I was responsible for the outcome of the findings?

Really? and calling me a troll because I point out a fact that does not go well with the general consensus of B&G the crocks or B&G the idiots?


Yeah, you should block man and that goes to whomever feels I am trolling

I personally don't think you're trolling, I respect that you have an opinion on FFP and you're certainly more knowledgeable than me when it comes to finances and accounts.

But what I don't understand is how you can defend Galliani and his mistakes continually, I get what you were pointing out with the Milan vs Man U adidas deal. BUT like dst also pointed out, we're still not even spending any money that would fit into the ratio of what we vs Man U earn from sponsorships. Why? Because we have so much depts due to mismanagement that most money we earn from sponsorships and such gets sucked into the red so we can cushion Muntari's, Essien's, Constant's, Robinho's, etc retirement fund

Besiktas want Robinho. They're willing to offer us €3-4 million payable in two years, as well as what Robinho demands in terms of wages (around €3 million). This last aspect is why Robinho has not accepted the several offers from Brazil so far, as they cannot satisfy his requests.

Link

What a money-whore! Piece of trash on the field, even worse outside of it. The little f*cker wouldn't even lower his wages until March before he transfers to Orlando. Please god make him go away.

We are not spending money like United? United’s 2013 Revenue was 460M euros vs our 278M. United’s Net Profit was 22M euros (adjusted downwards from 184M after discounting IPO in 2012 and one-offs) compared to our Net Loss of 15M for 2013.

You tell me? But I wouldn't compare United to us, lets stick to inter with their new sugar-daddy owner

I didn't say spend money LIKE United, no one here ever said that we should go out and spend 50m on Mata just for the sake of it.

I said we're not even spending money that's within the ratio of what we earn in sponsorships vs what United earn. i.e if we're getting 20m and they're getting a 100m from Adidas and they spend half of that (50m) on transfers we're not even spending half of ours (10m) on transfers. Which is what I meant.

Inter are making some smart moves without breaking the bank as well, just like Roma (Iturbe aside). We're the only ones who can't pay 4.7m for Rami and end up asking the player to reduce his wages so we can close the deal, we're the ones who are signing free agents and giving them big contracts that we then end up regretting (always)

Yep! We've been trying to get rid of him for a few weeks now!
And, it's not like he can back it up on the field like Ibra...just terrible.

We've been trying to get rid of him since the start of last summer, which was a never ending saga that finished with us failing to sell him and Galliani renewing (That's right!!) his contract for a meagre amount less than he was previously earning.

I wouldn't be surprised if the window closes and we're still stuck with him

Wording was bad, not 'like' United but even to spend that fraction 'ratio'. The ratio does not work that way; as sponsorships do not only fund for transfers. There are greater operations within the club that require that funding. United made a profit, and are inline with FFP - Actually are in an extraordinary position with their new adidas and chevrolet deals.
We on the other hand could spend the 10M. But if our wage is 4M capped, would the next best thing choose to go to Milan or Bundesliga/EPL/Madrid/Barcelona? If you were a player of quality (not saying you aren't), surely you would not sign for Milan, if PSG offered 6/7M, CL football and a chance to win titles.

On the big contracts you talk about, I think that is a matter of the past now. With Kaka and Robinho out. BUT does that cancel out the fact our projected income will be lower? No Europe means shed off at least 60M from our revenue. 2014 Revenue should be between 190M - 220M. Shite just got tighter, hence why we ask Rami to take it on the chin.


On inter & Roma
inter not breaking the bank? That's a first, inter have revenues of 120M, have aggregate losses that surpass ours; crazy numbers. They are in a worse position than us, heck they even made a loss in 2010 where they won it all. Except now they have a new owner, who has allocated funds of his 'initial purchase'. Keep a close eye on them and don't judge too soon. The only good thing they have going for them is that the new owner is a gateway for them into Asia. Otherwise, they are downsizing and have implemented a salary cap.


Roma have the CL, a new owner and a new stadium upcoming (two to three years to completion). I have no idea how they are faring with their income/expenses. All I know is that they have synergies with American businesses and are mostly influenced by their new owner James Pallotta. They will surely be BIG (in Serie A standards) in the next four years.

No, I said you've been trolling, I didn't call you a troll.

And you keep saying you're pointing out facts when all you're doing is disagreeing with the facts I and others present. Or ignoring them. This is what I call trolling.

PS: no point blocking on a forum, still see the person's replies in others responses to them. And like I say, nothing personal, I am not insulting you, I am criticising your posting style which seems to be a tad incendiary and rather opinion-based rather than facts-based.

We're both Milan fans, we just have a very different view on this and I have no axe to grind with anyone on here, including your good self.

Which we haven't



I'll see what I can do

More Galliani bullshitry:

- Olympiakos are interested in Robinho. There have been no offers from Besiktas
- Balotelli stays at 99.99%
- Cerci? Every alternative is fine as long as they're left-footed and play on the right ( )
- About Dzemaili, there was a swap possibility that didn't materialize. We have 27 players, we're playing only the league, so we can't sign anyone until someone else leaves (so make them leave, shithead!)

Link

*sigh*

Another depressing transfer window Luckily, NFL is 10 days away.

The day this galliani leaves Milan will be a day of great celebration. His approval rating must be what, 5%?

It will be the day that brings peace and prosperity to the land known as AC Milan. Surely.

Yes we will finally enter the era of prosperity and common sense where business decisions are dictated by logic and strategic planning instead of what we have no

Word.

Yes sir!

Roma's estimated revenue is of €143.5 million (source Wikipedia). Also, Roma has not been in the CL since 2010-11, and they have managed to build a better team anyway.


Indeed. We have made plenty of bad decisions that are hurting our finances. Galliani's "strategy" has been "go to Raiola" and "look for any player we can get at zero-cost, does not matter how bad they are". I don't see how anyone can really defend Galliani. He has done reasonably well for us when he had unlimited funds, his limitations have become apparent in recent years.

Platini's son works for PSG. Interesting coincidence.

How abt kagawa, i hear hes out of favour

and so it begins Good luck pippo, I wish you all the best.

Now I get your stance better, thank you very much for answering.

I think you're a bit too fatalistic and deterministic. It seems like you have a fix vision on our position and exclude any possibility of changes.

Changes can happen. Look at the Bundesliga in 1993 and in 2013. Twenty years and plenty of it changed. Granted, it was a complicated process that made this possible, but I'm sure Italy could pull it through.

Now as I see it, Galliani is one of the men blocking this change. Not only on Milan level: no, breaking news is that Galliani cast his support for Tavecchio (Footbal Italia)! And there we have everything in one story: another clash with a Milan legend (like numerous misunderstandings with Maldini, Zee, etc.) and yet another move that blocks the sole prospect of change.

Gallini is a man who's fighting against the future and against the sole facts of change. By choosing this position he's sentenced to failure and to be disliked.

Back to Milan. You're being fatalistic, I think. We are a great club, we were a respectful club when Berlusconi took over, but he made us top top. But we have history, trophies and a good name in Italy which still could, under shrewd, intelligent, planned and with fresh ideas, attract much more then we do by now. History is powerful, there are still players like Giuseppe Rossi who dream of the Shevchenko Milan, and we could capitalize on that. But, like Han said, we rather go for freebies like Essien and Muntari, all because Galliani thinks he's a genius who sings rejects for free and turns them back into stars.

Milan today is very alike the Farina Milan. When Berlusconi took over from Farina (who ended up in exile), he splashed cash, he invented new economical mechanisms, new marketing strategies, new ways of popularization. Sure, much changed now, I'm not asking for the same. I'm just asking for change, for a fresh new and hungry management who won't be obsessed with the status quo and fighting the inevitable future, but rather drawing up a plan how to become great again.

Because it's not all black and white. With a smarter management, a smarter choice in coaching staff and signings, we could still achieve something, hell win something. I don't say we could become United, but we could do considerably better.

beautiful! Well said.


Hopefully things will change sooner than later, its inevitable. Galliani's days are numbered.

Great post Fillipo! Nothing more to add.

-

We're pushing for a loan from Arsenal for Campbell.

Link

Great post indeed.

Oh, how I hope something gives sooner rather than later with this club!


R7, your turn...

Now the press has thrown Ben Arfa's name... have to say, I like the names linked to us but I'm 98% sure none of their agents have actually been contacted. I'm seriously beginning to wonder why my reflex is to care about a club that's been disowned by the ownership....

Yeah, at least we're being linked to someone besides to the constant Cerci loop that's been going on all summer.

Galliani supposedly stayed in Italy to keep working on transfers yet nothing is happening while every other club is signing promising players and we get linked to rejects and half decent players none of which are ever fruitful links as we end up getting no one.

First it was the Kaka excuse, now it's Robinho. This window will probably be as depressing as last summer, which they had the CL qualifiers excuse as well to fall back on

Very, very good post!

B&G were visionaries that built a great Milan, and I will always be grateful for what they have done. But that was 3 decades ago, and the football world has moved on while B&G are stuck in the past. Yes, there are some positive signs (we have Casa Milan, we are slowly fixing our finances, we are investing in our youth teams and maybe Inzaghi will actually take this seriously). However, we are still making costly mistakes (think Matri, Essien, and Robinho's renewal) which are setting us back, while other Serie A teams with less revenue than us (like Roma and Fiorentina) are investing more wisely and effectively.

Galliani's support for Tavecchio is particularly disturbing, as it shows yet again that he is not open to real change.

In addition to the recently mentioned Ben Arfa, I think another alternative to Cerci (who in my opinion might fit the bill well and for cheaper) is Giovani Dos Santos.

And seriously... how come no one has snapped up Memo Ochoa as yet?

He'll just demand 'facts'

Fine post, but unfortunately Farina's Milan doesn't matter because the football landscape has altered totally. Back then good ideas and ways of running the club saw efficiency but not success. Nowadays only money does.

Few years ago PSG finished 13th in Ligue 1. 2010. Fast forward to Qatar Sports Investment in 2011 and now they're back to back champions. I won't say they 'bought' their way to the top, but money sure fast-tracked it.

People try to point to the Barca model under Guardiola saying they're all youth products. Actually very few were. Most Barca players which contributed to their success were bought from other teams.

Sadly, money really is the be all and end all in football nowadays, and if you don't have it you will not succeed.

Milan are a nice paradox - same market value as Chelsea ($870M) yet spending none of the cash the Londoners do.

Berlusconi has zero ambition and part of me actually wonders if Galliani's own hands are tied by that. I like your theory that he wants to get a free agent and make a gem of him, but in theory anyone in his position needs money to do so, and while I am not defending some of the awful signings he makes, maybe, just maybe he's a f*cked off with Berluconi's lack of funding in the team as we are.

Just throwing that in there.

Well, surely this is not 1985 and things changed massively. But like Farina, Berlusconi is now the president with time working against him. Like him, we all wait for a new one to come in and introduce new means: money is an integral part, and maybe runs the show, but I don't think it's all that matters. PSG and Barcelona are fundamentally different in many was. The thing is, people like those "homegrown" players like Puyol or Xavi, they like the story of Barcelona and are willing to forget more easier about the money the throw out (or in) for new signings.

This is why I think Milan still has a high value. No one would object Milan spending big again, acting like a economically strong organism.

As for Galliani, if his hands are tied, he should have taken the early exit this January. No, I think he's not much different to the leeches like Mesbah and Robinho who suck the money out of this club and will/would continue to do so up until there was nothing left.

Not so long ago Galliani made a comment on Money Ball and how he'd like imagining himself in that role. I think he's deluded and faded, old and obsessed with a status quo. Signing Pirlo for almost nothing and turning him into something special, a world class footballer, maybe the moment he clings onto. I cannot be sure, these are only speculations - but I'm sure Galliani lost it and he's not willing to admit it nor does he understand that he's taking Milan with him to this awfully dangerous pitfall.

You are making some very good points.

FWIW, when Berlu poured lots of money into Milan he was in a position where he could leverage that "investment" for his political ambitions, and maybe even his business empire. So I believe he made up for his losses in other ways.

A number of things have changed in recent years:
- The financial solidity of Berlu's business empire has taken a beating (economy downturn, Lodo Modadori, etc.). I believe the situation is recovering, but ...
- Berlu's political ambitions have been curtailed
- Between politics, financial issues, court cases, Milan is no longer a big priority for Berlu
- Berlu's is not getting any younger, and (with the possible exception of Barbara) his kids do not appear to have the same appetite for spending money on Milan. It is possible that they are putting pressure to reduce the "bleeding" (one could argue that from their perspective, it is their money that is being spent).
- The amount of money that is being paid for top-notch players has sky-rocketed over the years. I wonder what we would have to pay these days for the likes of Gullit, Rijkaard, and Van Basten (probably a tad more than we did back then). In other words, the stakes are higher.

Given all of the above, I can see how Berlu may be less willing to "invest" in Milan these days. Not happy about it, but at the end of the day, his money, his choice. Bottom line, I have to accept it.

So, yes, Galliani's hands are probably tied (which is why I blame Berlu, not Galliani, for the Ibra+Silva fire-sale fiasco).

My issue with Galliani is that has has not adjusted to the new financial reality, and his solutions (rely on Raiola or go for the "false savings" of "parametro zero") are proving to be ineffective. It is pointless to keep blaming FFP, as there has been plenty of time to pursue a new strategy, and in fact other Serie A teams have fared much better than us. And if Galliani is really PO'd at Berlu, then he should do the right thing and resign, he should not drag the team down with him.

Indeed. It is quite possible that Galliani is no less of a leech than some of the players we complain about.

I believe Galliani did a reasonable job back when he had all the money he wanted. Reasonable, not great (IMHO, Moggi did better with less). Now that he has to operate with minimal funds, I think his limitations are becoming more obvious to most people. However, it is quite possible that Galliani does not see this (as you say, he clings to his old achievements, possibly overly inflating them), and even if he does see his limitations he is probably not willing to admit to them (as that would reduce his power inside of Milan).