Benzema makes it 3-0. Very, very nice goal!

EDIT: Silly reaction from Darchville after a tackle, sent off.

That combo of missed chances in each end was simple unbelievable! Benzema tried really hard to manage to miss that one but Darcheville's miss was just as bad as Anelka's against Liverpool the other day... God, I love football!

I'm really impressed by Benzema! Even without the two goals in the end, his performance was very good. He's got great balance and power, tactical awareness and a powerful shot. He should work on his finishing though. And he looks and moves like crap...

I kinda feel bad for Darcheville... he could have been the hero had he scored that chance (still can't believe how he did that, a defender wouldn't have done so well clearing it away...) but instead he also got a red card (it was undeserved though)... better luck next time.

Anyway... I wanted Lyon to go through so I'm good with the result.

I don't like this recent trend wev'e fallen into, playing great first halves and lousy second halves.

Good goal by Mancini, but crap match overall

i was watching that, absolutely insane

Champions League Draw: Who Could Play Whom!

In a spot of bother: Arsenal, Liverpool, Roma

Having finished second in their respective groups, The Reds and The Gunners will almost certainly face one of the Serie A or La Liga giants. What is more, they will have to play the second leg away from hom. Roma will avoid Inter and Milan, but can still face Barcelona, Real Madrid or Chelsea.

Have it easy: Chelsea and Manchester United

These two will perhaps have the easiest of the draw among the big teams. They avoid Liverpool and Arsenal as they cannot face Premiership teams, and also the big guns from La Liga and Serie A, Madrid, Barca, Milan and Inter all finishing first.

Poisoned chalice: Barcelona, Real Madrid, Milan and Inter

One would think that finishing first would have benefits, but with Arsenal and Liverpool upsetting the form book and lurking as pot B opponents, there will be some nervousness. Being able to play the second leg at home will be a welcome bonus, of course.

Hard-earned luck: Porto and Sevilla

By beating Liverpool and Arsenal in their respective groups, they have managed to finish first and avoid most of the European giants. They will have an easy draw on paper, but will themselves be the easiest opponents in pot A, and red hot targets for the pot B teams.

And then the rest: Lyon, Schalke, Olympiakos, Fenerbahce

As for the rest, it simply could not get worse. Apart from the team from their group, they can face all the other first placed teams.

Arsenal and Liverpool are in for juicy games

i hope they get barca so then can get creamed this time

as long as we avoid arsenal and pool i'll be pretty happy, if we could also avoid lyon i'll be ecstatic.

Milan will have an easy draw I think. Liverpool will get Sevilla and Arsenal will be drawn with Inter.


Nah. Liverpool would beat them this time around too. Torres would see to it...


Can we have pictures of that please?

I'd love to face Inter and repeat the 2003 trashing at San Siro...

Well, they trashed you at Highbury...

They would go through on aggregate!

Anyway, the thrashing at San Siro, was Henry's doing... I'd love to see it repeated but I don't know if this team could achieve something similar.

It would be great if Arsenal drew Inter, I'm quite sure they'd both be spectacular games!

Would be a great watch, but I think Arsenal<Inter. Though when it comes to merda and CL, you never know...

Her's the new ratios (after yesterday), if you want to gamble on the CL winner:

Barca 1:4
United 1:4.5
Chelsea 1:6.5
Madrid 1:8
Inter 1:8
Arsenal 1:9
Liverpool 1:10
Milan 1:10

I'd say that somebody needs a history lesson...

Barcelona won't win it, that I know. United and Liverpool are more likely to in my view.

Inter v Liverpool would be a juicy encounter !!!

Especially if Liverpool beat the merda ... LOL

Was just watching...

Pippo Mio !!!!


Shevchenko

How many hours till the draw?

I rekon arsenal or liverpool we'll be playing..

I think its Friday evening GMT ..

I think it's a week from Friday (ie, Dec. 21).

That's correct.

Ohh.. I heard wrongly then. Scratch that then.

Times Online

^^ Police chairman calls for Roma to be thrown out after violence.

Obviously nothing's going to happen, not with Platini at UEFA anyways. It's going to take somebody dying for anything to happen.

I love how the Rome police are always so quick to blame the United fans. yeah, because there was so much trouble at the game at Old Trafford.

What has Roma gotta do with an incident that happened miles away from the football ground !! OK, lets just end all the competition, until the US pulls out of Iraq, for causing thousands of deaths on a weekly basis

I have no idea what the US and Iraq have to do with this.

I never said Roma the club were to blame, what p!ssed me off was that they blamed the trouble on English fans!

But I do agree that Roma need to be kicked out of European competition, I'm not saying they as a club have done anything wrong, but it's a safety thing. Why should opposing teams have to travel there when they're going to be in danger?

Even the BBC article mentioned that one of the United fans hospitalized was a 16 year old being treated for the effects of alcohol. Maybe, just maybe it's possible that some of the United fans were a wee bit tipsy?

More than likely.

This is my main reasoning behind it:

United and Roma have played 4 times in the past year, twice in Rome, twice in Manchester. Trouble/beatings/stabbings/etc. occured in the two games played in Rome, I can't recall anything in terms of trouble happening in Manchester.

1) Is it just coincidence that the less Roma fans there are the less trouble there is?

2) If the majority of blame isn't to be put on Roma fans yet the trouble is always out of hand in Rome, the only reasonable thing I can think of is poor policing. If this is the case, they should definetly be out of Europe. A stadium with a lack of security.. or where the security not only doesn't help you and actually harms you, then that stadium should not be able to hold European competition.

I know the answers I'm going to get are along the lines of "But it's not all Roma's fault!" and "English fans are to blame, too" but I don't see why nothing is done when it's our fans that're the victims. Last years IN STADIUM incident in Rome was enough for me, they should had been ejected after that.

U have no idea ?! Because it's exactly the same thing ur demanding!! Or is it that English life is worth more than my fellow Iraqi's life Kurt ?


Kicking Roma out of Europe is not the answer!! Many teams came to Italy and played against Roma ... No problems .. Could it be hooligans who got stabbed

Cuz .. u know English fans are wasted hours before the match (don't u dare deny this !!! I know it for a fact !! At least 15000 drink till they get retarded !! I'v seen it in Athena, in Arsenal, etc etc !! ), while Italian fans rarely drink till they forget the reason they are there And in the spirit of whatever, they say something or do something to initiate the action. As we all know, fire does just come out of ur @ss, u need to spark it ! One thing lead to another and I'm pretty sure they got what they deserved.

No other team had complained against Roma !! Except for United, I wonder why ?! .... Yet, tens of dozens of teams complain about united and their hooligans ..

Ban united from Europe !! Little they'll do anyways ... Plus they have the worst fans on the face of Europe !!

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read on this board. The reason I have no idew what USA and Iraq have to do with this is because it's a footballing matter between England and Italy!

This part sums it up for me. It doesn't matter what happens, it's Englands fault. Guilty until proven innocent, as always. The Boro fans stabbedby Roma fans in the UEFA Cup a few years back, it was probably their fault, too. And our fans don't always 'initiate the action'. Did you not see it last year? Roma fans provking United fans behind the glass? Throwing bottles at them? Obviously a few United fans got tired of this and charged towards the glass, only to be beaten half to death by the 'security' they had at the stadiums.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen Rome derby's postponed. Now I'm only hazarding a guess, but it's my opinion that United fans had nothing to do with that. United never do anything this bad in England, it just seems that Rome is always the constant when it comes to hearing about trouble.

(P.S. They got what they deserved? You do realise a 17 year old kid got stabbed? You think he deserved to be stabbed? Maybe you can stop putting the blame on the English all the time and actually realise that the Roma fans are nearly killing us. Some people just see and hear what they want, it's terrible.)

Was this 17 year old the one who was also being treated for alcohol poisoning, Kurt?

It isn't a footballing matter !! It happened miles outside of the stadium !!! It was a tragedy !! It happens every where !!! Pisses me off, how u cant count that over 1,000,000 Iraqis are laying in their graves INNOCENT ... And yet a couple of drunken twats get stabbed and survive in Rome after initiating something against Italians !!!

Then how is it stupid ?! When u say a 17 yr old got stabbed !!! In Iraq, open the freaken news 17 yr olds ?! Bombers bombed hospitals, killing babies in incubators !!! U don't see the correlation there ?! U think these babies deserved it ?! Well they weren't drunk ?! And they didn't initiate the war !!

Ohhh ... Is it because the 17 year old was Anglo-Saxon and English ?!! Is it, then, if that is it I'm sorry ... U have just insulted the WHOLE population of Iraq.

I have no idea.

It's also irrelivant. I've been hit while on a night out by somebody p!ssed off their head, did I stab him? No. I would like to know why on earth Roma fans carry knives with them in the first place.

But again, guilty before proven innocent. Do you know he provoked the Roma fan? No, it's just the conclusion you've drawn because he's English. Even if he did provoke him, does that mean he should be stabbed? No. The only certain things we know is that he was stabbed, he is the victim. But to some, he's still guilty. Of your own and R7s posts I've not seen once where you've actually considered that the Roma fans may be at fault. Afterall they're the ones carrying the knives, they're also the ones doing the stabbings.

You're taking this WAY off topic. I'm not talking about the war or anything to do with it, stop bringing it up.

"And yet a couple of drunken twats get stabbed and survive in Rome after initiating something against Italians !!!" HOW THE F*CK DO YOU KNOW!? There's been no proof that they started it! There's not even proof that the United fans stabbed were evern drunk! The only proof is that the Roma fan stabbed him! yet you still jump on the Romans side!

And yes, it is a football related issue. It involved Roma fans and United fans, just because it happened outside of the stadium doesn't mean it has nothing to do with football.

Look ... This aint the right place to talk about Iraq and all .... But considering u making such a fuss about this incident .. That is ISOLATED from the actual football stadiums .. was drawing the same lines as what happens in Iraq!!!



So if u want to pull Roma out of Europe, for something out of it's hands (i mean ur right, the Roman police should have sat to baby sit ur English hooligans (just as the English police do ) just in case, nothing goes wrong !! I mean what where they thinking !!! OMG a couple of drunken Englishmen were stabbed, well that is a first !! Tell me Kurt have u ever been stuck up at Piccadilly circus with a knife about to be stuck into ur guts in 01', while withdrawing cash from the atm ?! Ohhh Where were the police OOOhhh mmm Chelsea should be banned ohhh

Kurt, by the same measure, I've not seen anything in your posts that indicate you think perhaps the Manchester fans may bear some responsibility. It goes both ways. You seem to automatically assume that the Roma fans were at fault.

In any event, I think it's clear that we're not going to ever agree on the nature of the comportment of English away fans in Europe and so I will not be adding any more to this debate.

Out of Roma's hands? So tell me, could you please tell me something as I've dying to know.

What exactly did Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Villa, West Ham, etc. do wrong at Heysel to warrant them being kicked out of Europe?


I've only used evidence, that's is why. There is no evidence that any United fan provoked a Roma fan, there is evidence that a Roma fan stabbed a United fan.

I think you'll find I said something to the effect of "If Roma fans aren't to blame for the trouble, then the only thing I can think of is the police (Otherwise why is there no trouble at the Old Trafford games vs Roma?) In this instance I am not saying United fans aren't causing any trouble but I AM saying that it's been policed properly - something that obviously doesn't happen in Rome.

When it happens outside the stadiums ... people have a life ... I guess English fans dont

They just drink and sing all day long, all year long, and on and on ..


The reason I'm taking the Italians side, is not because I side with Italians. In fact I love English people !!! It's the hooligans that piss me off !!!

There had never been any problems with Italian teams in Europe !!! It was always caused by the English HOOLIGANS not fans but HOOLIGANS !!! can u understand that ?!


How the f2ck do i know ?! Right, I know nothing and neither do u ... so stop claiming that Roma should be kicked out of Europe!

Are u f2king serious ?! TENS OF JUVENTUS SUPPORTERS WERE KILLED !! KILLED, MURDERED .. not stabbed .. BUT KILLED ... by ur HOOLIGANS .. And English teams were barred, because they can do nothing about their HOOLIGANS. ohh and KEY WORD .. INSIDE THE STADIUM


AC Milan, Juventuc Inter Milan, Roma, etc have travelled all over. And not in one city have they caused controversy !!! Not one !

No trouble with Italian clubs? You have to be kidding me. There's been nuerous deaths in italian football recently because of crowd trouble, tonnes of games called off, incidents of players/officials been harmed by things thrown by fans! All of which only involved Italian teams.


Yes. I know what happened. What you don't seem to be understanding is my main point - Why was Liverpool, the club, not the fans, punished? They can't do anything about it, it's not their responsibility as it's not a home game. (P.S. MURDERERS!? Do you know what happened at Heysel, a wall collapsed, the Liveprool fans killed nobody) Do you know hwy there was friction between England and Italy at this point? Read about the Roma-Liverpool European Cup Final the year previous. I think you'll find Roma fans have a history of stabbings and violence.

I'd also love to know why United and other English teams were kicked out because of this?

Yep, it goes both ways.


If there is no evidence that any United fan provoked a Roma fan, it doesn't mean it hasn't happen. You don't know all the details, reasons and so on , and yet you were calling in the beginnig for banning all Italian teams, and after that the banning of Roma. How can you do that before know ALL the facts. You said it yourself - Guilty until proven innocent.

-----------
BTW Please, let's no go off topic and involve politics in here.

I'm not sure if it's a cultural difference between us, I agree that provoking/fighting is not acceptable, but using weapons to harm people? That's just out of the question. So in those terms, I have all the evidence I need, fact is that a Roma fan stabbed a United fan - whether there was any provking taking place I do not know, but it's also irrelevant since the stabbing is a fact.

Obviously I'm not saying the United fans haven't done anything, and if this was at Old Trafford (Regardless of who's causing the trouble) I'd be asking for United to be kicked out.

erm ... Do these incidents involve Europe ?! Crowed trouble and all, are within the Serie A ... It doesn't go overboard into Europe !! And thus the Italians have been the perfect ambassadors along with the Portuguese, French, Germans, and Scots fans at the European venues. They have caused, maybe the smallest of incidents. But nothing, I repeat nothing to compare to English Hooliganism !!! The English Hooligans are renowned world-wide ... And is this a coincidence ?! Or a mere fact ?!


It depends on how u take it ... from ur response, u r too sensitive about this whole shebang ! Why I wonder ?! Since, u r no Hooligan, but an average Joe supporter. U shouldnt be addressing these issues with that kind of reasoning. Instead u r, and that is why I just cant see how on Earth Roma are supposed to be banned from Europe.



Do Italian fans go around (everywhere they go) and trash the place ?! Did u see Athena the day after the final ?! The center where Liverpool fans were ?! They completely trashed the place !!! That is but a mere 3% of what English Hooligans do where they go btw If u haven't travelled and seen with ur own eyes, please Kurt, don't insult my intelligence!






Liverpool, club, not the fans were punished because it happened inside the stadium! It's not a home game, but ALL of EUROPE AT THE TIME WANTED ENGLISH TEAMS OUT BECAUSE OF THEIR HOOLIGAN PROBLEMS !!! do u understand this bit ?? It explains where I stand in this debate, along with mmm a good percentage of English people whom I personally know and all of Europe ... Hell, even Turkey dont want ur fans over there, they sent 3 planes filled with hooligans back to Heathrow not a while back


So whats ur point ?! I am not attacking English people .... I am saying this is the cause of Hooligans.

We clearly don't know where it all started, the English kid could have used the knife first, but the Roman could have done a martial arts move (for all we know) and used the Englishman's knife on him as self defense. Innocent until proven guilty

So drop the non sense of Roma being banned from Europe, please.

There is no caltural difference, just different opinions.

You are judging way too quickly. Banning all italian teams? Yes, drunk hooligans can provoke violence. I'm not saying that's the reason. Maybe there were another reasons. I don't know, but you are jumping to conclusions before you know the complete picture.

What do you think would happen when two drunk fans of opposite teams meet? The way to violence from there is very short. And Roma fans have the home advantage and can get some weapons much faster

It does spill over into Europe though, provoked or not, Roma fans are also notorious for this kind of thing.

2001 UEFA Cup vs Liverpool: Roma fans stabbed Liverpool fans.
2005 UEFA Cup vs Boro: Roma fans stabbed Boro fans.
2007 Champions League vs United: United fans stabbed and beaten.
2007 Champions League vs United: United fans stabbed.

Roma is the constant, it's with difference clubs and it's always in Rome, why is there no stabbings in the return leg in England? It's easy enough calling me blind, but I can easily say the same about you.

It's all fine saying that these incidents are all within Serie A, but we have no problems with fans in the EPL, not anymore. I will admit that English fans in Europe are worse, but it also seems that there's only major violence when they travel to italy, mainly Rome. I'm not saying our fans are angels, they're clearly not. But I think to say English fans are worse than italians is off. Italy has major problems with its fans right now.. England may have had the worse and to be honest, banning us from Europe helped our crown problem, maybe Roma need the same thing.

@Mishale. I wouldn't have a ban on all European teams, just Roma. Also the whole Roma haveing homefield advantage so they can get weapons quicker? That's my point, do you hear of trouble nowadays when we host a European tie? And in this case it's 75,000 United fans on the p!ss, not just a few thousend in Rome.

Yes, Kurt !! Sh1t happens everywhere in the world !!! ... This can all be put in one circle as a criminal act. Whether the perpetrator was wearing a Roma shirt or a Villa shirt, means nothing !!!!


The ONLY time Roma will be barred is when Roman fans, meet an English team and provoke the same kind of violence (or to an extent) inside the stadium, THEN and ONLY THEN will the team be barred.


U see we do agree, but it is in where and when, that we don't agree on



As I said, we lack details of the whole shebang. I can go on and on as u can go on and on ....


Lets wait till some hard evidence comes out. But be sure that the verdict wont be Roma being Barred from Europe !! the rightful perpetrator will be prosecuted according to the Italian Justice system. and life goes on.

Well, that is because of the security that the United fans have around them (baby sitting them, incase they dont drink too much and well )

Roma fans had heavy security around them before and after the game.


That is why 75000 united fans on the p!ss didnt get a chance to do what they do best!

While in Rome, Romans aren't familiar with such violence .... Or is it just a coincidence that only the English teams that visit Rome receive such a treatment

I partly agree with this, in a way.

I think because every team in England shares at least a small amount of disliking for one another, a police presence is noticed at every game, and like you say our hooligans don't often get a chance to do anything because the police 'babysit' them. The away fans will be kept safe by police and usually have some sort of escort to the nearest train stations.

When we go into Europen, obviously there police are different and our away support do not get an escort or anything, leaving them open to be attacked, but to counter that it also leaves the stupid minority of hooligans to go and cause trouble.

I think we're agreeing on the majority of things, as strange as it seems. It's just our opinions on certain situations that differ, hence the disagreement.