No he's not. Gattuso's been here longer.



I really don't think it's all about seniority. there are many measure to take into account. influence, behavior on and off the pitch, technical qualities, etc.

Personally speaking, it'd be really stupid to make Brocchi, for example, captain of Milan ahead of Kaka. he's been with Milan more, but is not a quality and influential player and more importantly, he's almost always on the bench. these things will surely be considered.

zd does indeed have a point and I acknowledge that.

Thing is, Milan has gone by the seniority principle...pretty much always. As long as I can remember.

For reference, here is the seniority list according to acmilan.com (it's from an article on Maldini's player thread):

Paolo Maldini: The 2008-09 season is the 25th in Milan's first team
Massimo Ambrosini: 2008-09, 13th season with Milan
Rino Gattuso: 2008-09, 10th season with Milan
Kakha Kaladze: 2008-09, 9th season with Milan
Christian Abbiati: 2008-09, 8th season with Milan
Nelson Dida: 2008-09, 8th season with Milan
Filippo Inzaghi: 2008-09, 8th season with Milan
Andrea Pirlo: 2008-09, 8th season with Milan
Cristian Brocchi: 2008-09, 7th season with Milan
Sandro Nesta: 2008-09, 7th season with Milan
Clarence Seedorf: 2008-09, 7th season with Milan
Ricardo Kakà : 2008-09, 6th season with Milan

...

As much as I hate seeing Kaladze in a Milan shirt I have to say that yeah, hierarchy is hierarchy and when he's next in line he should become captain...

I wish we kick him out before then though... the day he leaves will become a personal holiday!


I thought this was his 6th or 7th season with us...

Oh well, it ended sooner than I thought, but I agree with all what you guys said. And I'm sure the management will choose the right guy for the job. Not making Kaka captain for the sake of not making him isn't right by any means.

But I'd certainly wait for my chance if I were him. No point in hurrying with this captaincy thingy.

Just because one would make a good captain does not mean he should be made captain. There are other things that should be evaluated as well... and when a club promotes hierarchy, they should stick by it...

Captaincy is worth waiting for and you become captain when they choose you to be, you don't force your way into it... hell, even Hitler was elected (unlike a certain living excuse of a human being... ) ...

Good point. And we don't even know whether Kaka will make a good captain or not. The signs are all there, but still.

Thing is Kaka is 26, while all of those who are on the list Tennie posted are 30 or more, and by the time Rino and Ambro retire/leave (three or four seasons. could it take longer?), they will be gone/reserved players too. it's not like nine players will wear the armband before Kaka eventually gets it. Pippo (35) for example has one or two more seasons to play, maximum. he will never get to wear the armband even if he continues to play until 40 as he will not be able to play regularly. same goes for Brocchi (32) and Dida (34) and even Abbiati.

IMO the order should be like this:

Maldini
Ambro
Rino
Kaladze
Pirlo
Nesta/Kaka.

That list works for me.

Pirlo and Kaladze above Nesta?

No way...

No way will Kaladze wear the armband for Milan.

It works for me too. Minus Kaladze.

They've spent more seasons in Milan than Nesta. seniority may not count for Brocchi, but it sure does for these two players.





Kaladze is rated by both our management and Carletto! and I'm sure he wore the armband a couple of time when there were no Ambro/Rino, Miz.

The fact that almost no one wants him to be the captain is a completely different issue though!

Both the management and Carletto have been wrong more than once. I'm sure they can afford to be wrong again. It's Milan after all.

Here we go again..

http://www.goal.com/en-US/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=825603

According to the Daily Star, Milan have decided to sell Kaka to Chelsea providing they receive a world record bid of €102m.

---

Two problems... no quotations, and the Daily Star has been subjected to libel lawsuits in recent past. They also have had to apologize to the family for the reporting of the McCann disappearance...

It's rather pathetic really. Why would Chelsea want to buy a player after their season started anyways? Regardless of when the transfer market closes...

Just doesn't make sense at all really. They have enough attacking players as it is. They were able to leave Drogba out and win 4-0, so I'm pretty sure offense is the last thing they need working on.

I think Deco fits just fine in their team too... he worked pretty well and I did see the match. I also know Chelsea fans are actually against spending that horrendous sum of money... at least the ones I talked with... they know it would not be good for either of our teams.

But as I said The Daily Star is probably useful for putting on the bottom of a bird cage. What's your opinion on i as a tabloids source?

(Why don't we discuss this in the transfer thread?)

Okay cool. I was just split where to post it...

I can only see them wanting to snatch Kaka if it's Abramovich's obsession...

Kaladze has worn the captains armband on a few oaccasions. Pirlo is ahed of him but whenever the players above him are out or subbed, he gets it

Are you sure? I think Kaladze is ahead of Pirlo...

He is. Kaladze's been here a year longer than Pirlo.

Guys i don't think that choosing the captain depends on who's stayed the longest..For example, look at Gallas..he came one season and was named the captain..I think it has to do with responsibility....

Gallas never played for Milan, gal kenny. At Milan, it's by seniority.

Hit the nail right on the bloody head, Kenny. Responsibility. A word that most of us here, and the management seems not to care much about. Unfortunately. It's still all about the seniority shtick.

The question, friends and neighbors, is that is seniority the answer to all this? Shouldn't be. Heck, if Brocchi was playing for Milan longer than Paolo, then would they have made him captain ahead of him. Hypothetical question, yes. But one that deserves an honest answer.

Like Gal Kenny said, it should always have been about responsibility.

Well from this list 5 players should not be in their, yes they have been with Milan longer but other things need to be considered, for example Pippo is not cpatian quality imo. Brocchi, Abbiati, guys that have been loaned out and mostly sit on the bench should not be considered, no matter how long they have been in Milan's books. Imo players that are part of the 'Milan backbone' should be considered for the captaincy, bit part players or players who are just not worthy should not be considered. Personally it pains me to see someone like Kaladz or Brocchi get the band when there are players like Nesta or Pirlo on the field just because they're been at Milan longer.

I know we do the whole seniority things, but other factors should be considered.


Well I've seen him were it when there is no Maldini, Ambro or Rino on the pitch. But hopefully like dst said, someone from the management or coaching staff will open their eyes and sell him before it comes to that tragic event when he captains Milan onto the pitch. It's an insult after having Guys like Baresi and Maldini wear the arm band


Like I said in the transfers thread, one of the guys that handles Chelsea's transfers was talking on Chelsea TV yesterday and he seemed pretty confident about Robinho arriving at the end of the week. So they're definately not after Kaka. And I'm pretty sure Milan won't sell him for any ammount unless Kaka asks for the transfer himself


Just makes me want to

No that has to do with Wenger being an idiot.


If Brocchi was here longer than Paolo he would deserve it... but in reality, Brocchi is not even a first XI player...

So you think Gallas being made captain is the right thing to do? Let's say he is the most capable to become captain in the whole wide world, does that mean he deserved to become captain in a team he had offered nothing at all to before? I think not.
If Gallas really was the guy that would make the best captain then in a difficulty his teammates would turn to him. A king is king not because he has a crown but because he is the king... same with a captain, he does not need the armband.
The armband goes to the senior, to the man that knows better than everybody else what it means to play for the shirt and who will be there even after the Gallases leave... It's not necessary that he can charge you up with words and it's not necessary that the players will turn to him for advise... but he's been there through good and bad and he inspires his teammates to give their all no matter how bad things are, that's why he's captain!

well it's easy to say it's mostly down to seniority but lets look at the trend, who have been milan's captains for the past 20 years? baresi and maldini. i mean the issue has never really come up because picking they're no-brainers.

these guys were not only the best out there when they took the armband, they had immense leadship qualities and just pure class, of course seniority is important but it's not the deciding the factor.

wasnt sheva vice-capt before he left? ahead of ambro? sheva was one of our leaders on and off the field, one of the best strikers in world, etc. so although ambro had more years here he wasn't ahead of him, that proves that seniority isnt the only factor.

right now ambro has 2nd in in seniority, was a great leader on and off the field last year, will probably play most of our games hence i think it's logically he is vice capt.

for me this should be the order:

paolo
ambro
gattuso
KAKA
pirlo (he lacks certain leadership qualities, IMO kaka is more proficient in that regard)

kaka is our new sheva for that reason i think he should be captian in the next 2-3 season.

-theres no point in changing the captain every year because the other candidates are getting old and wont serve that long, we dont need that instability.

- kaka seems to be one the few that sincerely looked disappointed with the poor performances while many of the others are content with resting on their laurels, if we are going win anything he will be the one to lead us to victory.

-everything about him is class, he resents us, is our icon and could have left us for madrid but has rejected any advances so far to stay with us.

-our best player and regular fixture in our starting 11 for years to come.

and i could go....

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Habitant on the ordering just above. Don't think Kaka should be placed above either Nesta or Pirlo in the hierarchy.

oh i forgot about nesta., i guess he should be above him

with pirlo, well doesnt captain evoke leadership? pirlo just isnt a leader IMO

What sorts of leadership characteristics do you guys see in Kaka?

Determined, humble, is correct, fears God, and is the star of Milan, after Maldini.

he's vocal, makes it known when the team needs to step it up.

he's clutch

consistent

charismatic

classy

he has "it", just by watching him. some people arent cut out to be a leader.

and we cant forget he's one of the younger members of the team, he cant go around bossing everyone but for the leadership that he's displayed so far i think i think he will only improve in that deparemnt.

Interesting. Thanks for the input, guys.

Thank you R7 and Habitant. Saved me a whole lot of typing guys. And even though I'm pretty tolerant when it comes to the captaincy matter, I'd still put Nesta ahead of Kaka when it comes to wearing the armband. Lazio heart and all.

Sheva wore it, even though he was a symbol of his previous club, plus a foreign player, plus there were older members of the squad in front of him. Obviously, the management saw something in the Ukrainian. Ditto for Kaka. His time will come, no sense in hurrying thing. I only wish the management get rid of this 'seniority' checkbox when it comes to the armband.

@Hab
It did not say it's all about seniority but it is the most important factor. By which I mean that someone with no sufficient number of years in the team should not become captain.

As for vice-captaincy... well I don't think it's a role that's nearly as important as that of the captain... so I would not mind for example if Kaka was vice-captain now after Maldini... it's more of a filler role...

In any case, the captain should be a decision that the players and the rest of the club members make together...

Ambro is the next one for me.

Well if there are any of you that are interested to know where and what Kaka' is doing, Calciomercato has reported that Kaka', Caronline and Luca are on the beaches of Sardinia along with his physical trainer. Relaxing and preparing for the new season with physio therapy lessons daily.

Kaka is future captain potential, you can see it clearly in his personality, however it would be unfair on other better leaders such as Ambrosini and Gattuso.

I think the way it is at the moment is fine

Edit: I was sure Pirlo gets the nod ahed of Kaladze. I guess Kaladze was not on the pitch when i have seen him get the armband. Or maybe because Pirlo is Italian he gets the slight nod ahed of Kakha

Kaka is reported as having been at training today.

Yes, he is back now ... I guess I was a bit late in translating that piece

The fish doll won't push you in the tank for it...this time.

Hope he's doing okay... that inflammation in his leg should be easing up now. Kaka will certainly have to be back to encourage a sad Ronaldinho and Pato (from what I hear they were upset after the way Brazil lost).

it doesnt matter that kaladze or seedorf or any of the above you listed were here longer than kaka.

The order will go like this:

maldini
ambro
gattuso
pirlo/kaka.


And vice captain will be decided in one or two seasons. I doubt gattuso will be able to play every game and same with pirlo and ambro so you will see kaka at one point wearing it.

You dont become captain just because you've been here the longest. you have to be able to take the role full on.

I would guess, with Cafu and Concorde gone, Kaka becomes captain of the Brazillian contingent? So by default, he's already one of the 'vice-captains', along with Ambro, Rino and Kaladze.


Pirlo as captain? The man is ice, and he can think. I also believe he did mention he'd like to be captain. But the thing is he's the kind of player, who the others look up to and respect, without actually being their 'go-to' guy in case of trouble. At least that's the impression he gives me.

He's also not very vocal. He'd make a good coach, in the 'discipline yourself and I'll teach you how to play' mode. Pirlo's played as trequartista, holding MF, striker and CB, not to mention his vision is among the best players in the world. In fact I'm convinced he should take his coaching badges. Just a feeling.

That's because Gallas was the only player that had reached his 20s in the Arsenal squad.

I'm joking Locke, don't fret.

Well it's different in different clubs. In Milan it's a seniority based thing. And they haven't changed it in years. So I doubt, they'll do it now.

At any time, the seniormost person on the team playing in the field is captain. In a way, it uncomplicates matters and keeps dirty politics out of the game.

Is that like a new requirment for being captain these days?

Well you wouldn' want the new captain to say-" I'm an atheist, I believe Maldini does not exist!" I mean how dumb would he look?

Very dumb, I'm sure.