Neuer mad.

Lol, are the Brazil players praying that they don't get pelted by rocks when they go out of the stadium?

It'd be easier to feel sympathy if their players weren't so arrogant.

I was thinking the same.

The Brazil of World Cup 2014 was an embarrassing shadow of the excellent one from last year's Confed Cup. That one saw Neymar with his skill and dominance, and an all-round team which worked extremely well together.

Exact same players came together at this year's world cup and the pressure was simply too much. They scraped through each match till they lost their two best players and tonight we have seen lambs to the slaughter on an unprecedented level.

Having Luiz as your main man in defence was absolute suicide, and we all knew it. Just didn't realise how ritual said slaughter was going to be.

As for Fred, sorry Kurt, but he's the worst striker Brazil have ever allowed to play at this level. It wasn't fair that he was the only one booed but he really is utterly shocking, as is Jo, and it highlights how far Brazilian strikers have sunk that a nation that produced Pele, Ronaldo and Romario had only Jo and Fred to choose from this time.

Completely agreed. Brazil have about 4-5 great players, the rest are mediocre at best. that said Germany can play flawless football against any team whether they dominate/win or not, but I don't enjoy them.

Argentina or Holland, either one will be fine by me.

This reminded me of Istanbul 2005 in terms of shock value. I was certain Germany would win, but never I imagined like this! Shame that Oezil didn't make it eight and 20 seconds later Oscar scored. But, oh well...

Now for the tool to win the final!

I said this after Mexico. They have some great players but those players are countered by some abject ones.

You've got the titan of Silva in defence partnered by the luducrous Luiz, you have the cultured Oscar along with the clunky and crude Hulk, the solid Gustavo next to the inconsistent Fernandinho, while the sparkling Neymar next to the utterly woeful Fred.

You can't put sh*t and silk together and expect silk overall.

All you're left with is a messy pile of sh*t and silk.

As for Moura not being called up, there's another ommission I remain bewildered by.

Germany v Holland.

Here I was hoping for a South American team to win it, alas Europe is just too good for them.

Scolari did a bad job at picking his squad; Kaka or Ronaldinho should have been included. You need someone with the keys to unlock a German side at its very peak. It was that Chile game that did it for me, though I always wanted their romance to continue for the magic it would bring to the country. Yet their coach did not choose well, even if he did pick the top players playing in Europe, he still did not bring the right squad to the tournament.

That said, this Germany side was absolutely ruthless. I would like the Netherlands to go through as well, and in the same fashion So Germany v Holland? I like the idea of that, but I think Germany have more than enough to drum Holland with 3/4 goals at the very least.

Kaka is finished. But Ronaldinho isn't.

If not Kaka Kaka or Ronaldinho, bring in effective players with experience. Not freakin Fred.

Luck? Luck is only part of this game my friend, I really think Löw deserves some credit. He did everything right; Germany always trashes someone on the WC, only now he timed this at the crucial moment.


Well, someone on here said it was a master plan for keeping strength, efficiency and freshness for the last game(s). I think it was right. He spared Lahm on several occasions from the up and down runs while at the same time managed to get Khedira into the game on his own pace. He also kept Klose fresh by rotating the attack.


I think both could add up something to this Brazil squad. Kaka may be finished, but he sure would do better then Bernard or Fred. It's not always about who's in form or not - it has more to do with the feel for the flow, game rhythm, etc. You see Kaka is more of a decent guy who'd happily sit on the bench and quietly wait his few minutes. Dinho? Not so much, he'd draw more attention. Felipao did the same in 2002 when he avoided Romario whom everyone wanted to see in the roster, Elber and a few others as well.

That's why I think Kaka could have been a compromise pick. Hell, I'm sure even Robinho or Pato would have done better then Jo and Fred.


Indeed.

Kaka is not finished, Ronaldinho is finished and fat.

Finished or not, all of Robinho, Kaka or Ronaldinho would have given Brazil something much better than what Fred or Jo ever could

Indeed. But the tragedy is, even with the three players in the roster, I'm convinced Brazil would have gone down to Germany by 7 once again.

Take a look at these Bleacher Report comments. I think they're sharp:

First half analysis

Cesar: Continually exposed.

Maicon: Awful.

Luiz: Atrocious.

Dante: Embarrassingly poor.

Marcelo: Walked past.

Fernandinho: Zero work-rate.

Gustavo: Shambolic.

Hulk: Woeful.

Oscar: Worked hard, but zero creativity.

Bernard: Good early few minutes, anonymous since.

Fred: Mainly been situated outside his own penalty box.

Second half analysis

Cesar: Still didn't save anything.

Maicon: Terrible display.

Luiz: The investigation must start here. A truly inept, selfish and suicidal performance.

Dante: Dreadful.

Marcelo: Must be his worst performance ever.

Gustavo: Very lethargic.

Paulinho: Made no impression.

Ramires: As with Paulinho.

Oscar: Scored a pointless consolation.

Bernard: Couldn't impact the game.

Fred: Booed and substituted.

Willian: Managed little.

Oh yeah, there's no question that Brazil were absolutely woeful from start to finish. Their suicide performance is the reason they lost by such a margin, but attacking wise it would have helped to have someone level headed who can actually contribute to the play instead of Fred.

Imo Scolari bottled it big time here, the defence was a mess, but that's expected when you have to leave David Luiz to be the leader of the defence. He has absolutely no self-discipline, he spent more time in Germany's penalty box than his own. They have no defence without Silva simply because he manages to control the gung-ho attitude of the rest of the players, Marcelo and Maicon atyck too much and leave too much spaces as well, Dante was bad but you can't really fault him much since he was left outnumbered at the back countless times.

That midfield though, what has Scolari been thinking throughout the tournament is beyond me, the problems were very obviously visible from the first match against Croatia where they very obviously lost the midfield battle and therefore the control of the game and were lucky thanks to the ref saving their @sses. Same thing happened against Mexico. Why wasn't Hernanes playing? Why has Paulinho been picked consistently, he is just absolutely awful.

Don't get me started on the likes of Hulk and Fred

Germany were their usual ruthless selves, I personally don't see much different from this game to the first one they played against an equally suicidal Portugal, only Portugal with 10 men managed to defend better than what Brazil were doing yesterday.

I find myself fearfully expecting Germany to win this whole thing now. They have the momentum and the wind is blowing in their sails. And frankly I can't see either Argentina or Holland beating them at this point.

Dare I say it, it wasn't Luiz as captain, it wasn't Fred up front, nor the absence of Silva or Neymar which cost Brazil.

It was Scolari. That's now two major projects in a row he's f*cked up, and I just don't think he's a good manager any more.

His arrogance is embarrassing, his insults to journalists ridiculous, he's lost the plot totally and frankly made a balls-up of this Brazil team.

From the original selections to the way the team played - it was extraordinarily poor.

Are you seriously telling me a team with world class players like Silva, Cesar, Marcello, Alves, Gustavo, Fernandinho, Willian, Ramires, Oscar, Hulk, Neymar, Moura (exactly), Hernanes etc etc was as bad as this entire world cup showed?

No.

Scolari just got the whole thing wrong.

As bad as the world cup showed? Considering they entered the last four, it's not all bad. If they lost 2-1 or 1-0 perhaps we wouldn't be so harsh.

Germany would have been a stiff opponent for any.

De Jong is fit and will start.

Absolute borefest.

*yawn*

The lines-man should have spared us another 30 minutes of this by allowing Higuain's goal which, imo, was onside.

I wonder why the Dutch chose a defender to start off their penalties

I never thought there would be a WC Final that I don't watch.

Probably one of the 5 that volunteered.

One of the most boring games in the history of mankind. I actually fell asleep for about 15 minutes in the second half.

Master chokers of Europe for the past 15 years vs Master chokers of South America for the last 15 years. WHO CHOKES BIGGEST!?

Well I will be supporting Germany all the way. They have been, overall, the best team in this rather poor quality (if entertaining) tournament.

And the second best has, sadly, been Argentina.

It's the right final, which speaks volumes for the competition as a whole.

Germany are clearly the better team and will be much fresher so If I had to bet I'd put my money on them. Though, it's hard to give two great back to back performances and in one game anything can happen.

I'd say Colombia were probably 2nd best, but otherwise I agree with both posts.

Yeah, but start with Robben taking them at least, having your first shot missed sets the tone for the rest of the shootout.

Anyway, Argentina should have won it in regular time with Higuain's wrongly disallowed goal, so justice is served in end.

What goal?? Do you mean the sliding shot? That didn't go in.

Yes I was wondering what goal he meant too!

Actually science has had a study of this and it turns out having weaker pen takers to begin with is more likely to win because, in theory, if you DO miss the first or second then the momentum increases as third, fourth and fifth go in while your opponent diminishes psychologically.

In actuality it's really just a lottery, and awful pen takers can still score, and great one miss, but that's your theory.

It amazes me how many people thought that was a wrongly disallowed goal. Pretty sure he wasn't called offiside, nor did it go in.

I remember it was called offside! But, pretty sure it didn't go in!

He wasn't offside, nor did it go in.

Sounds like Sturridge V Italy - I swore for at least 2 seconds his 20 yard worldly had gone in, till I realised it hadn't.

Not offside. Didn't go in.

Okay.

Guys, about that "goal" han speaks: it was a MISS. He missed the goal, but the ball touched the net a many people watching thought it was a goal. Nothing was wrongly decided there, it was an ordinary miss.


I wonder why van Genial didn't wait for Krul to come in. The moment I saw Cilessen I knew the Dutch don't have any chances. He looked frightened and unprepared. He had two penalties, but his reaction was poor (and the shots weren't easy as well).

All in all, those two teams we saw yesterday in the semifinal were embarrassing. Holland managed to score 2 goals (one dubious penalty) in 3 whole knock-out matches, or better yet, they didn't score a regular goal for more then 240 minutes. Argentina on the other hand showed many weaknesses, yet got it through to the final with two minimal wins and a penalty-shootout. Their defense, nothing special compared to even the older Argentine defenses of the past (Ayala, Chamot, Samuel) didn't concede a single goal in the knock-out phase, yet they didn't convince me one bit.

You're quoting Han twice

He didn't have any subs left. He had brought RvP off already coz he was tired. He thought he could get a goal and nick it in ET.

Yes. But it's a whole line of mistakes: firstly, why start with two half-injured or tired players like van Persie and de Jong? He should have chosen Clasie if de Jong wasn't fit enough. Secondly, why sub of Persie with Huntelaar who by no means is a game changer; Depay would have done considerably better. And thirdly, why not start with Janmaat, who did well whenever he was needed?

And beyond that, he should have known Cilessen isn't up to the task. Especially since he humiliatingly subbed him of just one game prior to this.

I seriously thought that was a goal. Someone needs to find some footage of it

I did too. Thousands of Argentinians did as well. But a sec later it was Sturridge syndrome and I realised it was side netting.

I would choose De Jong and Van Persie on crutches if they could play. The two of them are 'Clasie' (see what I did there).

But I'm also not sure you can call any of what he did a mistake. They lost in a lottery on a penalty shoot out. They also came closer to scoring than Argentina did.

Messi was once again completely inneffectual and well tamed by the Dutch.

The only error I think LVG made was going public about some Dutch players rejecting a pen. But then I guess he's just being honest and wouldn't have said it if he wasn't now Man Utd boss.

Don't worry Han, most people weren't paying much attention to last night's borefest, so a slip like this is totally understandable.

Well, point is - it really wasn't a lottery. Even before the shootout started, Holland lost. Just think about it; a young keeper who clearly isn't cut for penalty saves also lost maybe the last piece of confidence by being substituted a minute before the Costa Rica shootout. Now, when the stakes are even higher, he has to do the job, and his pale face was the complete opposite of what Krul presented.

The fact that Huntelaar made absolutely zero was predictable. Hey, maybe Krul should have subbed off Persie and played the last part - the effect would be pretty much same.

Why was LvG playing with the rightback position? Clearly players like Verboeve are not cut for the job. He should have relied on Janmaat and not experiment with Kuyt and other options.

Also, bringing in Clasie (did he even play before this match?) wasn't exactly helpful. If he wanted to win the games and avoid penalties, he should have brought in Depay or Lens. At one point Argentina was playing with 4 forwards and lost completely composure. A good midfield runner or an extra thinker would have sealed the deal for Holland.

Nah, I think LvG became a bit arrogant and made a couple of mistakes in yesterdays match.

To be completely honest I do have to admit that I watched the game on the PC and was alternating between giving the game side glances and browsing around on the net, so this is probably why I thought I saw it go in