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Fillipo Simone
Why wasn't Niang included?

At least this year we have such a weak squad that there ain't any left outs like last year Pippo and El Shaarawy.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sep 3 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Official. They also might buy Witsel for 30m.

wait, who had Zenit in their poule?

oh wait sad.gif
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2012, 10:27 PM) *
Milan CL list for the group stages:

Abate, Abbiati, Acerbi, Ambrosini, Amelia, Antonini, Boateng, Bonera, Constant, De Jong, De Sciglio, Robinho, El Shaarawy, Emanuelson, Flamini, Bojan Krkic, Mesbah, Mexes, Montolivo, Nocerino, Pazzini, Pato, Gabriel, Yepes, Zapata.

B-list: Carmona, Ganz, Narduzzo.

Out Traoré and Niang.


mellow.gif

Jack Sparrow
Well...this is just for the group stages.

We have to present a new list for the elimination rounds, so this is fair enough. Niang and Traore both don't speak the language and will need time to adjust. Niang especially. As for Traore, I'd prefer Flamini to him tbh.
Rossoneri7
Is Traore really that bad?
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 3 2012, 09:10 PM) *
Is Traore really that bad?

He really is...
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 4 2012, 03:40 AM) *
Is Traore really that bad?


I'd take the old Brocchi over him, given the one match I did see him play. Brocchi was not too capable but at least had an idea of what to do , even though he failed to do it.

Traore is just without direction. So is Flamini but at least Flamini has some ability.
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 3 2012, 09:42 PM) *
I'd take the old Brocchi over him, given the one match I did see him play. Brocchi was not too capable but at least had an idea of what to do , even though he failed to do it.

Traore is just without direction. So is Flamini but at least Flamini has some ability.

The thing that really gets me about him is that he doesn't project any form of personalty through the way he plays. At least with Flamini you know what you're getting. He's tough, he tackles a lot (not always a good thing I know), he gives energy. Same with Brocchi, even if he wasn't capable of any particular trait, he was a Jack of all traids as you like to say.

This guy just doesn't seem like he's particularly good at anything, he isn't even good at being a Jack... biggrin.gif
Jack Bauer
Witsel official too. The updated numbers are Hulk for 60m and Witsel for 40m. 100m euros in one night blink.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sep 3 2012, 10:01 PM) *
Witsel official too. The updated numbers are Hulk for 60m and Witsel for 40m. 100m euros in one night blink.gif

Are Zenit really that rich of a club?
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 4 2012, 01:03 AM) *
Are Zenit really that rich of a club?

Yes. Their owner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 4 2012, 12:03 AM) *
Are Zenit really that rich of a club?

Haven't you heard of Gazprom? Every January they hold all Europe in their gass-game.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 3 2012, 10:22 PM) *
Haven't you heard of Gazprom? Every January they hold all Europe in their gass-game.

Ahh, didn't know they were owned by Gazprom...

Thought Anzhi were the only super rich club in Russia
X-Offender
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sep 4 2012, 12:01 AM) *
Witsel official too. The updated numbers are Hulk for 60m and Witsel for 40m. 100m euros in one night blink.gif


I read Hulk was signed for €45 million, not €60.
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 4 2012, 02:03 AM) *
I read Hulk was signed for €45 million, not €60.

His agent (Teodoro Fonseca) said it's about €60m.
kurtsimonw
Witsel. laugh.gif
dst
That much money for Witsel really is an absurd move. I mean, don't they even bother negotiating? I'm sure Benfica would have given him to them for much less. Well, hopefully Benfica will use that money well.
X-Offender
And to think we were linked with Witsel last summer (one of the infamous Mr. X candidates) for about £9 million or something. laugh.gif
Fillipo Simone
Well, he's worth a bit more, but this price is really overinflated.
KillerMax
Price Fillipo, priCe!
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 4 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Ahh, didn't know they were owned by Gazprom...

Thought Anzhi were the only super rich club in Russia

No, unfortunately, no dry.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (KillerMax @ Sep 4 2012, 02:31 AM) *
Price Fillipo, priCe!

Say what? tongue.gif tongue.gif
KillerMax
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 3 2012, 06:39 PM) *
Say what? tongue.gif tongue.gif


tongue.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 4 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Falcao is, dare I say it, worth more than 50M. He is simply stupidly good, and if he keeps up the form of the past 2 or 3 seasons he could become the greatest striker of all time.

He has made world class teams looks absolutely ordinary and scores on all occasions. 30 in 37 for AM is a quite incredible return, as good as Messi or Ronaldo in a way inferior team. His record for Porto was just as good.

He is incredible. If he was a woman I'd marry him. Hell I'll marry him anyway.

True, but we'll get to see him more (and maybe perform better) with Chelsea. smile.gif That will further cement his legend. As for the best striker of all time, for me, personally that slot is taken. Ronaldo, the Brazilian phenomenon. But I agree, Falcao along with Ibra are the two best of this current generation. Always amazing watching them play!
X-Offender
QUOTE (acid911 @ Sep 4 2012, 03:59 AM) *
But I agree, Falcao along with Ibra are the two best of this current generation. Always amazing watching them play!


What happened to your precious Gomez? tongue.gif
acid911
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 4 2012, 09:26 AM) *
What happened to your precious Gomez?

He rounds up the top 3, most definitely. laugh.gif In fact, he's pretty much my favorite of the bunch, followed by Ibra at two and Falcao at three. But I can't deny that Gomez has some heavy doses of German efficiency, while the other two make up for it by possessing extra, what'd you call it, panache.

But I'd happily watch matches just for these three guys, that's for sure. They really are on a level of their own!
drucurl
QUOTE (acid911 @ Sep 3 2012, 09:59 PM) *
True, but we'll get to see him more (and maybe perform better) with Chelsea. smile.gif That will further cement his legend. As for the best striker of all time, for me, personally that slot is taken. Ronaldo, the Brazilian phenomenon. But I agree, Falcao along with Ibra are the two best of this current generation. Always amazing watching them play!

Agreed. Ronaldo did things back then that nobody does today other than Me$$i and in ANY team he played for. No "team needs to play to his strengths" BS cool.gif
acid911
QUOTE (drucurl @ Sep 4 2012, 09:57 AM) *
Agreed. Ronaldo did things back then that nobody does today other than Me$$i and in ANY team he played for. No "team needs to play to his strengths" BS

Well said. king.gif Ronaldo was once in a lifetime striker, even with his bucket load of injuries.
X-Offender
Fenerbahçe sign Meireles. Zenit are after Moutinho.
Jack Sparrow
I believe the argument here was the FFP is complete BS??

QUOTE
Paris Saint-Germain and Zenit watch on as Uefa gets tough over new Financial Fair Play ruling

Two of Europe's biggest spenders will be forced to take note after Atletico Madrid were among 23 clubs to be denied prize-money by the European governing body


Every uprising starts with a show of defiance, and this morning UEFA gave notice to Europe’s top clubs that there is more to their demands for financial sustainability than words alone.

The announcement that 23 clubs have had their prize-money from last season’s European competitions withheld due to their financial issues will have drawn a mixed response from all four corners of the continent.

The likes of Atletico Madrid, Malaga, Fenerbahce and Sporting Lisbon have until September 30 to either settle their debts or explain to European football’s governing body exactly why they have not paid players, other clubs or the taxman.

It is the first blow in what is likely to be a long and bitter battle in which lawyers and accountants will have more impact on our game than centre-backs or second strikers.

That Atletico, the reigning Europa League champions, were included on the list will have drawn a sharp intake of breath from all clubs.

In Spain, where the financial crisis threatens to strangle everyone bar Barcelona and Real Madrid, there will be genuine fear of what may follow from Michel Platini’s baby, the UEFA Club Finance Control Body (CFCB), who have chosen this opportunity to flex their muscles.

In the blue half of Manchester and the townhouses of Chelsea, comes the acknowledgement that spending must be curbed.

In Paris and Russia, the shining beacons for players and agents seeking a healthy pay-day, there will be a large dose of trepidation.

And for Arsene Wenger, the man who has embraced Financial Fair Play (FFP) from the very beginning, there will be a quiet smile of satisfaction.

FFP is Platini’s grand plan, one in which European clubs must reduce their debts over an audited period of time. Between 2011 and 2014, no club is allowed to lose more than £39.5m. Between 2014 and 2017 that is reduced to £26.3m and then, hopefully, all clubs will break even.

If not, the punishment is simple; clubs that fall foul of the rules will be banned from the Champions League and Europa League.

And when Platini’s ideas come to fruition, this will be seen as an important moment in this well-advertised sea-change.

Yet the actions of some clubs suggest they do not take him seriously, not yet at least.

Qatari-backed Paris Saint-Germain are a gilded club with an impressive history, but it will be interesting to see how they reduce their losses by 2014, as UEFA require, having spent around £120m on the likes of Zlatan Ibrahmovic, Thiago Silva and Ezequiel Lavezzi this summer.

Similarly, Zenit St Petersburg – whose average attendance was 3,000 less than Reading last season – have just spent between £64 and £80m (depending on who you believe) on Hulk and Axel Witsel.

These are not the actions of clubs who feel financial Armageddon is coming.

Yet Platini has never deviated, never changed from his insistence that the day of reckoning was near.

"These rules were unanimously approved by all clubs, politicians, judges and the European Union. There's no going back from here on,” he told Gazzetta dello Sport at the end of August.

“FFP is a hard rule for any team, regardless of whether we're talking about PSG, Juventus, or any other team.

"I have spoken with directors from all clubs. They have all stressed that they would follow the new rules. It seems that some worry a bit more about FFP than others, though.

"Financial Fair Play does not stop clubs from buying players. Clubs can still spend as much as they want as long as their budget accounts for it."

The question now is how PSG, Zenit and the rest can justify it. Over-inflated sponsorship deals have been discussed, as have an increase of equity for their owners in exchange for greater finance.

But the example of Malaga is one that Platini is sure to refer to time and again.

The list announced today gives the clubs named until September 30 to settle their debts or explain why they had not paid either players, other clubs or the tax authorities money that was owed.

In the case of Malaga, the answer is simple; because the billionaire owner, Sheikh Abdullah bin Nasser al-Thani of the Qatari royal family, seemingly lost interest and the funds dried up.

Santi Cazorla was then sold at a knock-down price to Wenger and Arsenal, solely so that the players could be paid. Withholding prize money will only exacerbate the situation, but Platini had to make a stand.

Clubs such as Chelsea, Manchester City, Paris Saint Germain and Malaga are all indebted to owners that they could not cope without.

The Frenchman, a football politician who is surely destined for Sepp Blatter’s chair at FIFA, will not countenance that.

And, under the leadership of former Belgian Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene, CFCB have been told to crack down.

No-one has been banned from European competitions – not yet, at least.

But Atletico Madrid could lose out on up to £7.9m in prize money, an eye-watering figure for any accountant.

And the message that is coming from UEFA’s HQ this morning is loud and clear; Platini is watching, and the day of judgement is coming.
kurtsimonw
So let me get this: Atletico overspent, can't afford to pay whatever so UEFA's response is to deny them prize money? laugh.gif

Platini: Killing football since 2007. cool.gif
Milan Are Brilliant
laugh.gif to think these guys control European football.
han2503
When I see PSG banned or any other club that would bring UEFA money, then we'll talk.
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 11 2012, 08:47 PM) *
So let me get this: Atletico overspent, can't afford to pay whatever so UEFA's response is to deny them prize money? laugh.gif

Platini: Killing football since 2007. cool.gif


Yeah. Coz it's unfair to teams in Europe, who you know..actually live within their budgets that they can't compete, since teams like Atletico are essentially doping 'financially'. Could they have gotten a Falcao without unserviceable debts for e.g? And without Falcao could they have won anything. We don't know.

In any case, I think UEFA are absolutely right. If you have no methods to pay your debts you shouldn't be taking them and investing that money.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 11 2012, 03:56 PM) *
Yeah. Coz it's unfair to teams in Europe, who you know..actually live within their budgets that they can't compete, since teams like Atletico are essentially doping 'financially'. Could they have gotten a Falcao without unserviceable debts for e.g? And without Falcao could they have won anything. We don't know.

Did you seriously use the word 'fair'?

Is it 'fair' that clubs like Milan, United, City, Madrid, PSG, Barca, etc. have overspent for decades, won as a result and been able to market themselves because of the money they spent?

Is it 'fair' that clubs from small cities generally don't get big crowd, can't sell much merchandise all because they happen to be from a certain area?

All FFP will do is make sure the money making CL teams have more money to spend, ensuring they have a much better chance of qualifying than other teams. Over and over again to compete the cycle.

Then as your peice about Atletico suggests, any team that is sick of the cycle and tries to spend their way into the CL, guess what happens? They get denied the prize money. How do they break into the CL then Jack?

Most things are done to ensure the bigger name clubs get all the help they can. That's why group stages were introduced into the CL since it's harder for teams to **** up. That's why seeding was introduces so they all avoid each other. You can sit here as a Milan fan and cry that it's unfair. But in reality it's not, what Atletico are doing is EXACTLY the same as what 90% of other CL clubs have been doing for decades.
Jack Bauer
I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think Uefa have the balls to actually ban a powerhouse club from CL. Probably some of them will threaten with forming a new superleague or something and uefa will find a way to fold.
KillerMax
Great post Kurt. I hadn't thought about that way.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 11 2012, 05:56 PM) *
Yeah. Coz it's unfair to teams in Europe, who you know..actually live within their budgets that they can't compete, since teams like Atletico are essentially doping 'financially'. Could they have gotten a Falcao without unserviceable debts for e.g? And without Falcao could they have won anything. We don't know.

In any case, I think UEFA are absolutely right. If you have no methods to pay your debts you shouldn't be taking them and investing that money.


Agreed. I guess it just needs time to sink in for people to accept this shift in financial sustainability. Especially considering this shift was endorsed by most (if not all) of the major European clubs.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 12 2012, 07:18 AM) *
Especially considering this shift was endorsed by most (if not all) of the major European clubs.

Of course it was, they're the ones who benefit.

Europa quality teams generally don't make a profit. Villa made a profit on trasnfers a few years ago, qualified for the Europa League and made a loss. CL teams are usually the only money makers so by FFP rules they're the only ones allowed to spend. As I said before, it's keeping the cycle going and ensuring the big CL clubs remain in the CL.

It makes no sense to call this 'fair play'.

That's like saying people in Africa can't afford education, so them not having food is 'fair' since they don't have the money for it. Whereas I deserve my food, house, quality of living because I can afford it. It's not 'fair' at all, I just happened to be very fortunate to live where I do (just as big clubs are fortunate to be from big cities and have that marketability).
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 11 2012, 05:50 PM) *
Did you seriously use the word 'fair'?

Is it 'fair' that clubs like Milan, United, City, Madrid, PSG, Barca, etc. have overspent for decades, won as a result and been able to market themselves because of the money they spent?

Is it 'fair' that clubs from small cities generally don't get big crowd, can't sell much merchandise all because they happen to be from a certain area?

Well, to put Milan in the same basket with all those clubs isn't exactly fair either.

Small cities? That's life. Life isn't fair as well.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 12 2012, 10:30 AM) *
Well, to put Milan in the same basket with all those clubs isn't exactly fair either.

Small cities? That's life. Life isn't fair as well.

Well Silvio did put an awful lot of money into the club.

That's life? As is rich people owning clubs. UEFA are in for a big shock when United/Chelsea laugh them out of the building when they start preching this FFP rubbish to them for overspending.
Jack Sparrow
Sadly United and Chelsea are well within FFP norms. Or am I the only one who read of the mega rich sponsorships deals signed with Chevrolet and Gazprom respectively? unsure.gif
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 12 2012, 11:37 AM) *
Of course it was, they're the ones who benefit.

Europa quality teams generally don't make a profit. Villa made a profit on trasnfers a few years ago, qualified for the Europa League and made a loss. CL teams are usually the only money makers so by FFP rules they're the only ones allowed to spend. As I said before, it's keeping the cycle going and ensuring the big CL clubs remain in the CL.

It makes no sense to call this 'fair play'.

That's like saying people in Africa can't afford education, so them not having food is 'fair' since they don't have the money for it. Whereas I deserve my food, house, quality of living because I can afford it. It's not 'fair' at all, I just happened to be very fortunate to live where I do (just as big clubs are fortunate to be from big cities and have that marketability).


It depends on which side of the spectrum you look at it kurt.

For me, it seems very aggressive. Milan is the perfect example in this, take a look at our squad and do you see any correlation with our ambitions? I doubt this squad can achieve it. Then again this is for short-term objectives.

In the long-term however, the ultimate effect would be to reduce inflated transfer prices and wages, which had risen dramatically in recent years.

It will only make sense when it is fully functional and you start seeing the results. As far as your concerned, if Villa finish 7th and don't qualify for Europe, your Villa does not have to meet the FFP guidelines.

As for the CL teams being the only money makers, I think that is a bit exaggerated, as Milan is a prime example on this. Even if Milan wins the CL, it wont be able to afford a squad like Chelsea or City. Don't get me wrong, the prize money is significant, but is not classified as a steady income and polarized as such.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 12 2012, 01:48 PM) *
Sadly United and Chelsea are well within FFP norms. Or am I the only one who read of the mega rich sponsorships deals signed with Chevrolet and Gazprom respectively? unsure.gif

If Chelsea are within FFP then this shows that it's more definitely about keeping the rich richer. They spent £80m without selling a penny this summer. And Chelsea are probably the smallest 'big club' due to the tiny size of their stadium. So if they are fine, then this just shows it's only really going to affect the 'little clubs'.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 12 2012, 02:57 PM) *
It will only make sense when it is fully functional and you start seeing the results. As far as your concerned, if Villa finish 7th and don't qualify for Europe, your Villa does not have to meet the FFP guidelines.

That's the problem though. For us to push on, realistically, we're going to need to spend money. Anyone outside of the big clubs will. But as we all run a loss as it is, spending will just mean that we get denied prize money/entry to Europe.

The only way teams can qualify or stay qualified is CL money. Spurs spent a fortune and got in, then the CL money has helped them remain competitive for a little while. Now that they failed to get in again, it's likely they won't be as competitive.

As I said to Jack, it's making sure the usual suspects keep their place to me.
Jack Bauer
Joe Hart...

Zed.D
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Sep 19 2012, 02:08 AM) *
Joe Hart...



Apparently he's the third best GK in the world.

In his defense he made some good saves but ruined it in the end. typical English GK, good saves most of the time and then BOOM! a costly mistake.
kurtsimonw
Every goalie is a typical English goalie? Who knew.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 19 2012, 12:29 AM) *
Every goalie is a typical English goalie? Who knew.

No, just every bad one tongue.gif
X-Offender
I believe Malaga will be the team to beat in our group. They look fantastic.
kurtsimonw
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