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LaPalma
QUOTE
Calcio Debate: If Kaka Moves To Manchester City, Football Is Dead

Kaka seems almost certain to leave Milan for Manchester City. Carlo Garganese believes that if the transfer goes through, it will represent the death of football…

AC Milan are the most internationally successful club in world football, with a prestige, history, class, and honour that most other teams can only dream of. Seventeen Scudetti, seven Champions League titles, three Intercontinental Cups, a never-ending list of past and current legends, including Rivera, Altafini, Baresi, Maldini, Van Basten, Ronaldinho - you could spend all day talking about the magnificent Milan.

Compare the Rossoneri to Manchester City. Two English league titles (in 1937 and 1968), and one European Cup Winners Cup in 1970, and that is pretty much the club’s history. The Citizens have not won a major honour for 40 years, nor have they even challenged, even dropping down to the third tier a decade ago, while their past greats such as Colin Bell and Francis Lee, despite being superb players, are hardly household continental names.

Milan are currently third in Serie A, with a realistic chance of fighting for the Scudetto. The most dominant club in the Champions League this decade, the Rossoneri are almost certain to return to Europe’s premier cup competition next season, and fight to win it. Meanwhile, Manchester City are floundering down in 15th place in the Premier League, just two points above the relegation zone. There is no hope of making the Champions League next season, while their only realistic chance of qualifying for Europe at all, will be to win the UEFA Cup this season.

Milan is one of the most revered cities in Europe, a capital of design and fashion, with culture, art, nightlife, and much, much more. Manchester, meanwhile, located far, far away from the centre of Europe, boasts nothing of cultural note, and hardly catches the eye like Milan, or even London, does.

So how could it be possible then that one of the world’s greatest footballers could move from the prestigious Milan to the plastic Manchester City?

The simple answer is: money.

The English Premier League, with its billionaire foreign owners, propaganda marketing, and obscene television deals, has already done enough to destroy the splendour and tradition of the beautiful game, and if this Kaka deal passes through, it will be the death of football.

This time, there may be no return.

Some of the financial figures being banded around are quite horrific. Kaka will earn €15m a year after tax, while Milan will reportedly receive a transfer fee in excess of €112 million. What has the world come to?

I must point out before I get floods of complaints from Premier League apologists that I have no grudge against English football. This is purely a moral stance against the direction the Premier League has taken over the past four or five years, specifically since Roman Abramovich entered onto these shores, and helped turn football into a circus.

With the world financial crisis, there was some hope in my mind that football, and the Premier League in particular, may take a step backwards and begin to regain some of its purity and soul, but the imminent Kaka deal emphatically suggests otherwise.

Milan should not escape criticism though. They have been tempted by the devil and, like Eve, they could not resist the juicy-looking apple. The second symbol of Milan, after Paolo Maldini, has been sacrificed for a pot of dirty money. What will the Milan fans at San Siro do tonight to protest? It should make interesting viewing.

Michel Platini is the President of UEFA, and he needs to immediately lay down laws to prevent rich owners from spending what their clubs, as businesses, do not make. Whether this will be possible remains to be seen, and it probably is already too late.

The day the transfer of Kaka to Manchester City goes through will be marked down in history as the day football died.


I couldn't agree anymore. Especially the bold part of it. PLEASE Mr. Platini, ACT NOW!
dst
Even if this deal does go through surely a limit for each transfer window needs to be set to prevent rich owners from making such offers and clubs operating with huge debts on their back.
Bluesummers
QUOTE (dst @ Jan 18 2009, 12:05 PM) *
Even if this deal does go through surely a limit for each transfer window needs to be set to prevent rich owners from making such offers and clubs operating with huge debts on their back.


exactly what about the smaller clubs. I feel sorry for roma who are next after this and are gonna lose de rossi.
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jan 18 2009, 06:48 AM) *
Ahh..but that won't happen mere dost. It's Italy remember? And a cash strapped Roma won't sell, why would Milan.

Galliani's interview is all truth though.

Yes it's all logical. Yes it's all good....but damn this sucks. Why did the Americans have to start this financial crisis??!!!

Right now, I think Africa is the only place not affected by the crisis.


But damn it Galliani, this recession will pass in 3 years. Everyone is saying that. Will you have kaka back in 3 years? And in what condition??!! Sheva was gone 2 years, that's it!!

Oh the bright side...at least Milan can claim they're self sufficient. rolleyes.gif But at what cost??!! When Galliani said 2 years ago, we want to be like Arsenal, this was not what I expected!!

I suppose I must be grateful that he's being honest about things and not saying some cr@p about how selling Kaka is actually the best thing that could ever happen. He's admitted he's going to catch hell, and that the fans are justified.

For a second I was fearful, he'd come out saying how we must be grateful for all that's been achieved.

So in a nutshell...Silvio has cut bait and told Galliani to go fish. He's said, he'll no longer bankroll Milan.

Fine! But this plan of action should have been set years ago, with a target year. Not like this! mad.gif

*AAAAAAAAAArgh!!* My brain is doing flip flops...I'm typing nonsense! I'm getting off football for some time.

Agreed 100% with you Jack!!

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jan 18 2009, 07:07 AM) *
Oh...and this new article I read from Don Silvio, seems to suggest that Milan are accepting the bid for different reasons:

Namely the terms offered by Man City are way way above anything Milan can offer to Kaka. And seeing as how Kaka's career can't last forever, and he'll never earn this kind of money ever again (certainly not in 2012 when his contract expires), the club feel it's only fair that they allow Kaka's agents to discuss with City. This is because, Milan can't in any way improve Kaka's terms at the club any more than it already is. All this said, Silvio hopes that Kaka will stay!

Makes me feel a little better, but not by much.

Yeah but like acid said, he's a politition.

He knows what people want to hear and he's happy to feed it to us with the kiddy spoon.

Like I've said, Silvio has gotten what he wanted out of Milan, fame and a political carreer, now that he has no need for Milan anymore he knows he doesn't have to poor cash into it any longer, thus this will turn Milan into a selling club. No club with the players we have is going to be able to function on it's own, thus leading us to sell our best assets. For this I don't blame Galliani because Silvio is now leaving him with his hands tied. he has no choice.
Jack Sparrow
I think among all the self financing clubs we shall be top of the heap. But no self-financing club can ever compete with bankrolled clubs.

I think it's about time clubs like Milan, Barca, Juve, United, Munich all put their weight behind FIFA and introduced that damn salary cap. That to me, seems like the only thing that will restore sanity.

The salary cap must be fixed appropriate to the club's standings and earnings (from competition only, otherwise EPL will walk over others again!), this along with a fixed debt to asset ratio.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jan 19 2009, 02:09 PM) *
I think among all the self financing clubs we shall be top of the heap. But no self-financing club can ever compete with bankrolled clubs.

I think it's about time clubs like Milan, Barca, Juve, United, Munich all put their weight behind FIFA and introduced that damn salary cap. That to me, seems like the only thing that will restore sanity.

The salary cap must be fixed appropriate to the club's standings and earnings (from competition only, otherwise EPL will walk over others again!), this along with a fixed debt to asset ratio.


Thats the only solution to the assults on clubs .. Such as the one Milan had kneel down to.


I have to agree with you Jack on the previous post too, seeing as IF Milan plan to push the offer aside, then Kaka's wages must match that of what is being offered by City. In turn, this will mean the club needs financing to increase, the already high, salary cap once again to accomidate for stars like Ronaldinho, Pirlo, Pato when he reaches stardom and whoever comes in there on.

Meaning, Milan will be more of a liability than an asset, in which case Silvio - Fininvest - is better off selling the club. But to whom ?! Who in today's current market conditions has the spare cash to buy a football club ? That is at the end of the year not generating as much cash flow and is not as lucrative, when paired to any other business (Telecom, etc). Its a matter of simple economics really, not rocket science.

Thinking about it logically, Milan has to accept 100+MM for the player, if they don't, they risk loosing him to the next in line who might offer a much lesser amount to the club; seeing as the assulting club will also use the same tactic and bump up the players wages as well .. Bottom line is, in both cases Kaka' along with his agent will demand that the wages be meet or else he's out!

In the end, its down to Kaka's sentiments. If he has any, he will accept his current pay and stay. If not, well then we know how much sentiments weight for him.


p.s. Though I agree with EVERYONE here, that Kaka' is the flag bearer of Milan and his influence to the team can not be measured by any amount of money, and that is because our hearts believe it to be true. Then again, if we think with our heads and not our hearts, we can understand that during this recession, huge conglomerates are cutting off and selling their assets to stay afloat, hence how is a football club in an economy like Italy, who has fallen into a recession even before the credit crunch not dommed fail for keeping a hold of Kaka' !?

What the hell does a global recession have to do with loosing Kaka' ? Well, ok, keep Kaka', but increase his salary to 18MM per yr, then do the same for the stars in the squad, increasing all of them accordingly so as to maintain the balance in wages. By the time the club needs to settle its debts and creditors, it wont have much cashflow, obviously because the bigger portion of its income had gone to the increase in wage cost .. You then have Silvio - Fininvest - reconsidering how much of a liability the club is and if its worth holding on to; either pour more cash into the club or put it up for sale ... In which case, who will buy ? Do you guys want a Saudi owner ? or an American ? Of whom, will most definitely not give their heart as Silvio had.
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jan 19 2009, 12:09 PM) *
I think among all the self financing clubs we shall be top of the heap. But no self-financing club can ever compete with bankrolled clubs.

I think it's about time clubs like Milan, Barca, Juve, United, Munich all put their weight behind FIFA and introduced that damn salary cap. That to me, seems like the only thing that will restore sanity.

The salary cap must be fixed appropriate to the club's standings and earnings (from competition only, otherwise EPL will walk over others again!), this along with a fixed debt to asset ratio.

It's not only the salary caps. I think club's debts should be looked into when they are making huge offers like the ones Man City and Chelsea (used) to make. For example, should Roman Abramovic suddenly decide to pull out of Chelsea they will sink faster then the titanic. They have an astrnomical depth. To allow clubs like Man U Chelsea and so on who have these depts to spend the ammount of money they do on transfers is what upsets the balance.

Sure we could do it ourselves, but our management choose not to that's why we're more shrewed then other clubs. Not to mention our owner not willing to spend the money like Moratti or Abramovic.
Tennie
So about Diego. Whoever buys him from Bremen is going to need to throw in a chauffeur. He was recently pulled over and was found to be driving drunk. He got a fine and had his driver's license pulled.
han2503
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 04:09 PM) *
So about Diego. Whoever buys him from Bremen is going to need to throw in a chauffeur. He was recently pulled over and was found to be driving drunk. He got a fine and had his driver's license pulled.

laugh.gif laugh.gif Idiot...
han2503
Talking about Diego, since we seem to be going after every Juve target (Flamini, Mattioni) why not go after this one as well?

Sure he's not of Kaka's quality but who is?
Zed.D
@ Rossoneri7

And who says IF Milan plan to push the offer aside, then Kaka's wages must match that of what is being offered by City?!.. please stop that. obviously you know a thing or two about the economic side of football but that doesn't mean others are entirely unaware of what's going on.

Kaka right now is one of the best payed players in the world [I think he's one of the top 5], and last time I checked, he didn't request a 15-18 million a year salary from Milan (nor did he request a transfer to a relegation battling side). that's City's offer. what do you mean "Milan MUST match it"?! what's the point of making it look like Kaka wants 15-18 million a year from Milan when EVERYONE [including Kaka] knows Milan cannot afford to pay that much money to its player? what if in the end it turned out that Kaka had no intention of more money and was alright with the fact that he earns as much as C.Ronaldo, Zlatan, etc.?!
CrazyMilanFan
i think we should get G.ROSSI if kaka leaves he is itlain young I always liked him and heard that he is a milan fan aswell he can play both AMF and CF roles
Bluesummers
R7


It doesn't matter about his wanting more money etc etc. The fact that we even opened up negotiations with Manchester city when we have rejected even talks with real madrid shows who we really are.

We wouldn't let kaka leave to madrid before and we told him its because hes family etc etc.... now city come with 100 mil and that sh!t doesnt matter anymore?

Who is to blame?
Tennie
Well, if his agent demands a raise every tiem another club makes a bid...I'm not entirely sure all the blame falls on Milan. There has to be a limit.
Bluesummers
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 01:28 PM) *
Well, if his agent demands a raise every tiem another club makes a bid...I'm not entirely sure all the blame falls on Milan. There has to be a limit.


Its not like ricky would say oh your not paying me then i'm out peace. We are a club afterall and i really dont think hes that kind of person. F*** his agent/father whatever. He has no say in this. Its between kaka and milan.
CrazyMilanFan
kaka aleady earn more than double than the secnd highest paid players r80 and that is what silvio said that milan cant offer anymore wages while man city are...... the wages debate is important bcoz we not only get money from his sales but wages of about 2-3 current or future players
Tennie
Actually, his agent has rather a lot of say in things, blue. I'm not happy about it either, but that's the way it is.
Bluesummers
QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Jan 19 2009, 01:32 PM) *
kaka aleady earn more than double than the secnd highest paid players r80 and that is what silvio said that milan cant offer anymore wages while man city are...... the wages debate is important bcoz we not only get money from his sales but wages of about 2-3 current or future players


So if it was about maldini would you be okay with it? Just wondering...because kaka right now is pretty much what maldini was at age 28+
Bluesummers
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 01:38 PM) *
Actually, his agent has rather a lot of say in things, blue. I'm not happy about it either, but that's the way it is.


its just not fair. Its just unreasonable! cry.gif
Tennie
Maldini never earned more than double any other player on the squad, blue.
CrazyMilanFan
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 07:40 PM) *
Maldini never earned more than double any other player on the squad, blue.

exactly
Bluesummers
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Maldini never earned more than double any other player on the squad, blue.


Maldini's time was different than kaka's. Look at the best players for every club. Ibra, ronaldo, messi they are all top earners.
Bluesummers
BREAKING NEWS REPORT: Kaka Snubs Manchester City With Emphatic Milan Gesture
The Brazilian megastar is reported to have recently emerged from his house and greeted a sea of Milan fans holding a Rossoneri shirt...
vahid
Kaka stories minute by minute! on Mediaset

On goal
Bluesummers
QUOTE
Milan Interested In Catania's Biagianti


whoever he is
Habitant
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 19 2009, 07:28 PM) *
Well, if his agent demands a raise every tiem another club makes a bid...I'm not entirely sure all the blame falls on Milan. There has to be a limit.

well this is the 3rd time a team has a made a bid ( a serious one), chelsea and real botth respectively in the summer and kaka was due for an extension and a pay raise wasnt out of order since he had just won the ball d'or

thats 1 pay rise because of a bid.

besides kaka's agent cant force him out of milan or force them to accept a bid just because they dont want a pay rise unless was in favor for it too, and we all know kaka's stance.
elcordobez
QUOTE
Well, if his agent demands a raise every tiem another club makes a bid...I'm not entirely sure all the blame falls on Milan. There has to be a limit.



Well he says

QUOTE
For the first time since the announcement, the Brazilian spoke to Milan Channel, to give his thoughts on what recently took place.

"Not even for thirty seconds did I think about leaving," he stated.

“I never wanted money or anything. I am doing very well in a place where people respect and love me, and I am therefore happy to be here.

“My family has been very good to me as always, however I had no doubts as to what I would be doing this time around.

“I went with my heart, as it was never going to be an economic choice for me.

“At Milan there are wonderful people, and just to confirm, I have never, and will never, ask for an increase in my wages at this club."

“Everyone here is very good to me, and for this I can only thank them,” he added.

“I will be celebrating at home with a couple of friends now that this is all over, and I’m just looking ahead to moving forward with Milan.

“I am a strong believer in God; however it is not always the most logical path that God chooses for us.

“If the club had accepted an offer, I would have been very upset and disappointing in leaving.

“My companions have been exceptional to me as well over this time, even though they knew that I was never going to join Manchester City.

“I would like to embrace all those who have sent me messages recently, so thank you all very much,” he concluded.


So it was Milan who pushed the negotiations?
acid911
QUOTE
“At Milan there are wonderful people, and just to confirm, I have never, and will never, ask for an increase in my wages at this club."

He said it alright! rolleyes.gif See that's why I'll always trust players like Kaka, Paolo, Nesta, Rui Costa, etc over the management. Love them or hate them, no one on this planet can deny that the management loves to lie and make contradicting statements twice a day, every day. If it's some other player, then I'll reserve my judgment on what they're saying to the media.

But proven ones like Kaka (and a few select others), no sir. king.gif Today's a great day to live!
Giocare08
I told you he would stay. Yayy this is a glorious day for Calcio. It shows thta there are things that mean more to a player than money.
MizNelson
“At Milan there are wonderful people, and just to confirm, I have never, and will never, ask for an increase in my wages at this club."

Does that include his father's taking advantage of the Madrid situation last year to get Kaka's contract reworked more than once?
Zed.D
QUOTE (MizNelson @ Jan 21 2009, 02:16 AM) *
“At Milan there are wonderful people, and just to confirm, I have never, and will never, ask for an increase in my wages at this club."

Does that include his father's taking advantage of the Madrid situation last year to get Kaka's contract reworked more than once?

I remember I read somewhere that he said the club decided to extend his contract...
acid911
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Jan 21 2009, 03:56 AM) *
I remember I read somewhere that he said the club decided to extend his contract...

True. We upgraded his contract up till 2013, after he helped in the CL 07 win. smile.gif And it's nothing out of the ordinary, clubs always extended contracts for their top players to keep them happy as well as with the club. Manchester United did the same recently with Christiano making him probably the best paid player in the world.
vahid
De Jong Joins Manchester City
acid911
Good for them, they're signing players of their level. biggrin.gif Keep doing this for the next 5 years, City, and then beat Liverpool to the 4th CL spot.
Jack Sparrow
^^^

Exactly. Now they're making the right moves. Downing is another alternative these people should look at.
Tennie
Hsm. The Italian media is reporting that Portsmouth are interested in Emerson.
CrazyMilanFan
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 24 2009, 01:00 PM) *
Hsm. The Italian media is reporting that Portsmouth are interested in Emerson.

let him go for free
Fillipo Simone
I'm sure we won't get rid of a DM, especially not after no Gattuso sub came in..
han2503
QUOTE (Tennie @ Jan 24 2009, 02:00 PM) *
Hsm. The Italian media is reporting that Portsmouth are interested in Emerson.

We should pay them to take him.
CrazyMilanFan
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jan 24 2009, 02:20 PM) *
I'm sure we won't get rid of a DM, especially not after no Gattuso sub came in..

flamini, cardaccio unsure.gif
whoarethepatriots
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 24 2009, 02:27 PM) *
We should pay them to take him.


Hell, i will carry him on my back all the way to Portsmouth
KillerMax
I can see that Emerson is well and loved i these forums... biggrin.gif
Zed.D
QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Jan 24 2009, 07:17 PM) *
flamini, cardaccio unsure.gif


Blasphemy! are you comparing them with the mighty Emo? innocent.gif we NEED Emerson to stay! smile.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Jan 24 2009, 06:15 PM) *
Blasphemy! are you comparing them with the mighty Emo? innocent.gif we NEED Emerson to stay! smile.gif

Exactly!
Zed.D
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jan 24 2009, 09:49 PM) *
Exactly!


devilsmiley.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Jan 24 2009, 06:34 PM) *
devilsmiley.gif

fiesta.gif

I can't wait till Emerson is given the armband after Paolo. yay.gif
Zed.D
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jan 24 2009, 11:31 PM) *
fiesta.gif

I can't wait till Emerson is given the armband after Paolo. yay.gif
























Poor guy, it's not exactly his fault he's not loved much! it's Carlo's and his strange insistence on using him when there are fairly better players out there.
mishie
QUOTE
Anche dalla stampa inglese, nella fattispecie il "solito" News of the World, giungono conferme sulla volontà del Portsmouth di portare a casa Emerson. Il tecnico dei Pompeys Tony Adams avrebbe identificato nel milanista l'elemento ideale per sostituire Lassana Diarra, passato al Real Madrid. Il Milan concederà il prestito nel caso si apra la possibilità di trattenere David Beckham in rossonero


may cheer all you Puma haters out there
Zed.D
It didn't cheer me because I didn't understand a word of it tongue.gif
Tennie
Basically, it's a bit more detail on the Emerson-to-Portsmouth rumor. The article says Milan will send him to Pompey on loan if it helps increase the possibility of keeping Beckham at Milan.

EDIT:

There's a long article on Mediaset about the whole thing. Basically they think there are three options as to why Emerson wasn't called up.

1. Technical choice. Carletto really did want to give the spot to Cardacio, who hasn't played a lot.
2. Transfer. He's so close to his way out that they didn't want him near the pitch.
3. Punishment. The club is Not Happy about the AS interview.
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