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Fillipo Simone
Ahhh, Fergie...he just want's Inter rush into a Manchester United trap, don't you see it?
dst
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2009, 07:51 PM) *
Ahhh, Fergie...he just want's Inter rush into a Manchester United trap, don't you see it?

Of course he does but that does not mean he does not believe what he's saying.
Fillipo Simone
Yep, you're right. But knowing Inter, they'll react and waltz right into it...
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 8 2009, 05:56 PM) *
Of course he does but that does not mean he does not believe what he's saying.

He is right, in my opinion.

United are probably the best team in the World right now and their main asset is the way the break on counters. If Inter come at United at Old Trafford, they'll get battered, so Inter will play defensively - like Fergie says. Strangely enough, Mourinho predicted the tie would result in a penalty shoot-out when the draw was made..
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 8 2009, 08:03 PM) *
He is right, in my opinion.

United are probably the best team in the World right now and their main asset is the way the break on counters. If Inter come at United at Old Trafford, they'll get battered, so Inter will play defensively - like Fergie says. Strangely enough, Mourinho predicted the tie would result in a penalty shoot-out when the draw was made..

I'm not saying they won't play that way but how is that associated with the "Italian mentality"!? Is it Santon that's doing it on his own? Is it Materazzi from the stands? Is it Baresi from the Bench telling Mourinho what to do? Or are shirts alive?
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 8 2009, 06:13 PM) *
I'm not saying they won't play that way but how is that associated with the "Italian mentality"!? Is it Santon that's doing it on his own? Is it Materazzi from the stands? Is it Baresi from the Bench telling Mourinho what to do? Or are shirts alive?

Well.. it is a 'general' Italian mentality, obviously not every single player or person goes by that though. The whole schooling of "If you don't conceed, you can't lose" thing.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 8 2009, 08:19 PM) *
Well.. it is a 'general' Italian mentality, obviously not every single player or person goes by that though. The whole schooling of "If you don't conceed, you can't lose" thing.

Italians give priority to defense in all sports that's true but that's not what he said and Inter have one Italian playing and no Italian manager, how this falls into the Italian mentality I cannot understand.
Fillipo Simone
Maybe playing in Italian Serie A means gaining Italian mentality, even if only Santon is Italian.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 8 2009, 06:33 PM) *
Italians give priority to defense in all sports that's true but that's not what he said and Inter have one Italian playing and no Italian manager, how this falls into the Italian mentality I cannot understand.

Well, it's the same as how people will be saying "An Italian team knocked out an English team" if Inter were to go through.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 8 2009, 08:42 PM) *
Well, it's the same as how people will be saying "An Italian team knocked out an English team" if Inter were to go through.

I don't think it's the same.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2009, 08:37 PM) *
Maybe playing in Italian Serie A means gaining Italian mentality, even if only Santon is Italian.

Yeah this makes some sense but still...


Anyway...
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 8 2009, 07:00 PM) *
I don't think it's the same.

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

You argue a team with nothing Italian about them can't be said to have an Italian mentality, yet you would consider them Italian.. They're one and the same.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 8 2009, 10:46 PM) *
I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

You argue a team with nothing Italian about them can't be said to have an Italian mentality, yet you would consider them Italian.. They're one and the same.

It's certainly not the same. Inter will go through or will be eliminated as an Italian club, not as an Italian team. They are not an Italian team so what they do cannot be associated with any kind of Italian mentality.

SAF brought up a stereotype that's baseless in this case, he just wanted to say it...
Zed.D
FORZA INTER. ph34r.gif dump SArrogantF and his team out of the CL, please!

QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 8 2009, 05:13 PM) *
So, injury issues for the Italian teams: Sissoko has a broken foot and is out, Materazzi and Burdisso are out with injury, and Totti is probably also out too.

That's more a blessing in disguise. especially Burdisso. he's to them more or less what Kaladze is to us.
Tennie
But that leaves them with Rivas, who's even MORE of a Kaladze to them. smile.gif
Zed.D
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 9 2009, 04:04 AM) *
But that leaves them with Rivas, who's even MORE of a Kaladze to them. smile.gif

Walter Samuel and Chivu are out? ohmy.gif

QUOTE
Zanetti: Inter To Play For 0-0 Draw Against Manchester United

The Inter captain has reiterated the words of his coach, by confirming that his side will play for a goalless draw in the Champions League this week.

Inter recorded yet another three points on the weekend as they cruised to victory against Genoa, defeating them 2-0 at the Luigi Ferraris stadium.

It was the perfect result for the reigning Italian champions heading into their return leg against Manchester United this week, as the two clubs meet again in the Champions League.

The first leg ended 0-0 at the San Siro just two weeks ago, and in the lead up to the return match at Old Trafford this week, the captain of the Nerazzurri, Javier Zanetti, reiterated the words of his coach, as well as confessing that it will not be easy for his side to progress to the next phase of the competition.

“We will play for the 0-0, because otherwise Manchester will score a goal sooner or later, which will make it even more difficult for us,” Zanetti affirmed in an interview with the Inter Channel.

“We will have to be focused on Wednesday, as we are going to play a compact game, whereby our opponents will have no space when in possession of the ball.

“It will take a great Inter to win this week. We must try to be at our best, and not allow our opponents to take control.

“Of course we are confident, and we believe that we can achieve great things.

“This is due to our victory at the Marassi against Genoa, which was the best demonstration of a very good mental condition.”

Inter will travel to Manchester later this week, before doing battle with the Red Devils on Wednesday evening at 20:45 CET.


We will play for 0-0 laugh.gif they are not afraid to express these things anymore ever since Mou's come.

That's ugly, but logical.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 8 2009, 10:05 PM) *
It's certainly not the same. Inter will go through or will be eliminated as an Italian club, not as an Italian team. They are not an Italian team so what they do cannot be associated with any kind of Italian mentality.

SAF brought up a stereotype that's baseless in this case, he just wanted to say it...

Yes they will be eliminated as an Italian club.. but that's the whole point, they're Italian, that's why they play with an Italian mentality. Or did I wake up this morning and they no longer play in Serie A?

This is silly, you can't just play for a 0-0 draw at Old Trafford. If they score, then what're you going to do, attack them and then get completely owned on the counter? Inter need to play a sensible game, too attacking or too defensive and they're out. I don't care who goes through, pretty much a win/win for me.
Jack Sparrow
I want Man U to go through, and somewhere along the line, lose to Roma. I think it would be very fun. biggrin.gif
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 9 2009, 09:44 AM) *
Yes they will be eliminated as an Italian club.. but that's the whole point, they're Italian, that's why they play with an Italian mentality. Or did I wake up this morning and they no longer play in Serie A?

For me it's two completely different things. The club is Italian but the players are not. I do not think a team of non-Italians can have any kind of mentality other than their own and their coach's.

Playing for 0-0 is not the Italian mentality anyway. Italians love their 1-0 wins more than anything else and they play for that. Biased people, like SAF proves to be, associate everything defensive with Italian football... then it's his own team that played for penalties in the Carling Cup final...

It's stupid and baseless what he said in my view.

---

Zanetti is also playing mind games.

I don't think they'll play for 0-0 but it's not like they can do more than that anyway.
Tennie
Samuel is an injury doubt, yes.
Fillipo Simone
Ahh,...discussing to of my favorite football teams I've dreamed of since my very first steps clashin one against the other makes me so vulnerable dry.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 9 2009, 10:17 AM) *
then it's his own team that played for penalties in the Carling Cup final...

You clearly didn't see the game then, he put out the reserves and still battered Spurs and were very unlucky not to win in normal time..

QUOTE (dst @ Mar 9 2009, 10:17 AM) *
It's stupid and baseless what he said in my view.

I disagree. What Mourinho and Zanetti have said in recent weeks more than backs up what Fergie says.

QUOTE (dst @ Mar 9 2009, 10:17 AM) *
Zanetti is also playing mind games.

I don't think they'll play for 0-0 but it's not like they can do more than that anyway.

I don't like it when people say teams "play for 0-0", it sounds silly! What's Zlatan going to do when he gets an open goal, miss it on purpose to keep it at 0-0!?
Habitant
what did fergie try and do last time he came to the san siro? rolleyes.gif hold their 3-2 adv. and they got thrashed.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 9 2009, 05:00 PM) *
You clearly didn't see the game then, he put out the reserves and still battered Spurs and were very unlucky not to win in normal time..

I disagree. What Mourinho and Zanetti have said in recent weeks more than backs up what Fergie says.

I did see the game, come on... their only great chance was at the end of the 90 minutes when CR hit the post, what else did they do? Especially in extra time I think they clearly played to get the game to penalties.

Did Mourinho and Zanetti say they'll play the Italian way or with the Italian mentality? No they did not. You don't get what I'm saying, I'm not saying Inter won't play defensively, I'm saying whatever they do cannot be attributed to any kind of Italian mentality simply because they only have one Italian on the field and a non-Italian coach!
Mou's Chelsea played the exact same way in Europe. Saying that Chelsea had an Italian mentality is just as stupid as what SAF said. In my view, Fergie openly attacked Italian football but he clearly has not checked who Inter's players are! That's probably because he has not even watched a Serie A game in his life... just like all those people who say similar things about "the Italian mentality"...

QUOTE (Habitant @ Mar 9 2009, 06:49 PM) *
what did fergie try and do last time he came to the san siro? rolleyes.gif hold their 3-2 adv. and they got thrashed.

That's true.
LaPalma
QUOTE (Habitant @ Mar 9 2009, 05:49 PM) *
what did fergie try and do last time he came to the san siro? rolleyes.gif hold their 3-2 adv. and they got thrashed.

Well...this time he got a draw in the SS and hs the advantage to play at home.
Tennie
In the 'oops' category, we have one Sulley Muntari. Who got to the airport in Milan but couldn't take the flight to Manchester with the rest of the team because...he left his passport at home. He took a later flight, however.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 9 2009, 05:43 PM) *
That's probably because he has not even watched a Serie A game in his life... just like all those people who say similar things about "the Italian mentality"...

Well, Italians don't seem to have a problem talking about how great Italian defenders are. It's just a generalisation, that's all.

I watch multiple Serie A games every week and find it very defensive. The teams don't seem to break at speed, they just take it in turns having an attack, it's almost like an NFL game.
Habitant
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Mar 9 2009, 06:49 PM) *
Well...this time he got a draw in the SS and hs the advantage to play at home.

k well the point is he's already criticizing their approach before the game has even begun, when he's been no better when dealing with away games especially in italy (where they have a terrible record)

mourinho's philosophy with 0-0 with the 2nd leg on the road: lets keep em off the board and we can go through, and if we nick a goal then even better.


ferg's philosophy with 3-2 with the 2nd leg on the road: lets keep em off the board and we go through, and if we nick a goal then even better.


*even against roma that same year when they completely outclassed them in the 2nd leg, the first leg was mostly roma and i'm sure a huge part of that was defensive approach.
Habitant
dp
MizNelson
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 9 2009, 04:46 PM) *
In the 'oops' category, we have one Sulley Muntari. Who got to the airport in Milan but couldn't take the flight to Manchester with the rest of the team because...he left his passport at home. He took a later flight, however.

Passport fail. smile.gif
Habitant
dp lol
MizNelson
QUOTE (Goal.com)
Petr Cech Denies Role In Scolari's Chelsea Sacking
The Czech goalkeeper took none too kindly to suggestions that he was part of a mutiny against the Brazilian coach...
7 Mar 2009 23:14:44

Chelsea goalkeeper Petr Cech has reacted with incredulity to Luiz Felipe Scolari's claims that he was instrumental in having the ex-Blues manager sacked.

Cech was alleged to be one of the three main protagonists, alongside Michael Ballack and Didier Drogba, in fomenting a players' revolt to get rid of the Brazilian.

However, the Czech international goalkeeper has vehemently denied any such plot to remove 'Big Phil', stating that in fact the players remained loyal to their boss.

"We stayed with him and tried to help him. We helped both with our attitude and our performances on the pitch. But in the end he came out with such comments," Cech told the News of the World.

"I will say only one thing. Every time something similar to this happens there are always a lot of rumours and speculations.

"I was rather surprised that this came out from the coach, because mostly, managers stay together with their team. However, I do not worry about it now. I just try to focus on my current performances to finish the season as well as we can."

Out With The Old

Nonetheless, he did find time to praise his new coach and, in doing so, take the tiniest of swipes at the previous one.

"You can see the work we have done since the change of managers," he stressed.

"Our team performance and organisation is back and I still believe we will finish higher than Liverpool."
Zed.D
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 10 2009, 03:16 AM) *
In the 'oops' category, we have one Sulley Muntari. Who got to the airport in Milan but couldn't take the flight to Manchester with the rest of the team because...he left his passport at home. He took a later flight, however.

LOL!!
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 10 2009, 02:41 AM) *
Well, Italians don't seem to have a problem talking about how great Italian defenders are. It's just a generalisation, that's all.

I watch multiple Serie A games every week and find it very defensive. The teams don't seem to break at speed, they just take it in turns having an attack, it's almost like an NFL game.

I don't see what that has to do with anything.

I did not say Serie A is not defensive. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as you say though. NFL? Come on. I think it's a matter of preference here, you probably find it more defensive than it really is because as you said you're not the biggest fan of possession football just like I maybe see Mou's football as very defensive because I don't like the way his team function.
LaPalma
In my opinion it's neither the players nor the country they play in that fosters as special kind of playing football. It's us, the fans. You know, the EPL fan basically like fast attacking football, the primera division fan likes joga bonito, the Serie A fan likes good defenders and the Bundesliga fan has a weird affinity to teams that fight in the first place.
Zed.D
QUOTE (goal.com)
Calcio Debate: Three English Wins Would Signal Real Italian Crisis

There has been talk of this moment for a while, but for the first time in earnest, Serie A runs the risk of hitting a new low, writes Goal.com's Sulmaan Ahmad...

For quite a while now, Calcio has not been as good as it 'should' be. Domestic attendances have dwindled because of, among many other reasons, SKY Italia's broadcasting of every single game. Who'll bother going to the stadium when they can watch the match on TV? Calciopoli, meanwhile, dealt a cataclysmic blow to the game's reputation, finances and even the league status of several teams that faced points deductions - and Juventus, of course, who were relegated. On top of that, the financial crisis hit Serie A as hard as anywhere else, perhaps barring the relatively unscathed Premier League.

Italy certainly hasn't been the force it was in the 1990s, but it hasn't been in crisis, either. It never fell out of touch with the Premier League and the Primera Division. As recently as 2006, Italy won the World Cup and in 2007, AC Milan won the Champions League. Even 2003, another Milan year for the Champions League, saw an all-Italian final against Juventus with Inter making the semis as well. And since then, they have usually had as many representatives as Spain in and around the final stages.

In that time, English teams have been more prominent: maybe it's because of TV money, maybe it's because of foreigners - or maybe it's just because, on top of both those factors, the same four teams qualify on a regular basis and, as they say, practice really does make perfect. Whatever the reason may be, the fact remains that England's edge in recent seasons never directly implied Italy's weakness, nor their own utter dominance. Until now.

Nobody considered Rafael Nadal better than the great Roger Federer after his first one or two wins over the former world number one, but now, not only do the seeds tell a different story, but so does public opinion. Nadal's unbreakability has left the cerebral and unflappable Federer with no answer time after time. There comes a defining moment in any and every sporting era that removes all the doubt and conjecture: the 2008 epic Wimbledon final did it for Nadal, and this Champions League triple header runs the risk of providing the closest thing to irrefutable evidence of English superiority, as well as the deficiencies within Italy.

In all honesty, Inter aren't far off being just as stale as Milan and must act decisively to ensure their squad doesn't grow just as old and embarrassingly lifeless. With Jose Mourinho at the helm, odds would be on them only improving from here on out, but then look at the scrapheap left by the 'Special One' at Stamford Bridge - once world-beaters ageing and past it. The same happening at Inter is far from impossible.

Across town, meanwhile, the Kaka to City saga masterfully orchestrated by Silvio Berlusconi raised the profile and appeal of not only the Rossoneri, but Calcio in general. So has David Beckham. And then, as if to remind us that they're still the same old and fragile Italian team, they went and got knocked out of the UEFA Cup by Werder Bremen. Being consigned to the competition in the first place served as an embarrassment for the continental kings, but at least offered a chance for them to complete their trophy collection with the one bit of silverware they had never acquired. And they didn't.

Juventus are still a side ravaged by Calciopoli with some considerable rebuilding to do. Giorgio Chiellini and Amauri notwithstanding, all their best players are on the wrong side of 30, with a plus side of sorts being that Gianluigi Buffon appears to have a good few years left in him yet.

Roma, meanwhile, are suffering the consequences of Francesco Totti's career winding down and lack of a suitable replacement. Their squad has never been superb, but was intricately pieced together and made them genuine contenders against almost anybody on their day. There is no new Totti, and the Giallorossi are nowhere near being in a position to head into the transfer market to buy one.

No Italian teams in the Champions League quarter-finals signals what can only be described as a disaster, when considering they have as many tournament wins as England and Spain and more runners-up in the competition's entire history, spanning over half a century, than anyone else.

The last time Calcio suffered such a blow was in an era just after the turn of the decade, in which Spain and Real Madrid in particular were thoroughly dominant. Now it's England's turn. Milan's golden period and the 2002-03 tournament in between don't exactly amount to an Italian era. They haven't had one in over a decade. A hammer-blow like this could signal the start of two or three more just like it.

For all the injuries here and questionable officiating there, Italians more than anyone appreciate the value of a result. If all three of their teams fail to get any kind of result in the next two days, that's when the excuses must stop and the rebuilding must start. Just as the Premier League has adopted many facets of Calcio in evolving into the international super-hybrid sport it has become, the Italian game can do likewise. Similar squad balance, similar tactical formulas and even similar players - or they can stick to what they know and continue coming up second best in Europe - and rarely is it because the players aren't good enough. The league, contained within itself, is full of quality players, sumptuous football and some superb matches. But on the big stage, a nation so fiercely proud and successful as Italy needs to represent to better effect than the current contingent's continual flops.

Italy can look to its promising youth - much of which is being overlooked on the world stage - in the form of Marco Motta, Davide Santon, Giorgio Chiellini, Fabiano Santacroce, Daniele De Rossi, Sebastian Giovinco and even Giuseppe Rossi, who could be lured away from Villarreal in Spain if one of Calcio's top dogs make an approach this summer. Without question, the talent is there to spring a surprise resurgence - as a national team, few can contend with Italy, anyway.

Beyond that, many of the UEFA Cup contending clubs, despite their failures in the competition this season, are full of magnificent talents such as Angelo Palombo, Antonio Cassano, Mauro Zarate, Marek Hamsik, Ezequiel Lavezzi, Goekhan Inler, Felipe Melo, Juan Vargas and more.

If the ominous nature of this week's ties eventually sees a couple or even just one Italian team spring a surprise on their English opposition, it would at least hand Calcio a lifeline. Some reputation would be salvaged and that would only serve to make evolution that much easier to put into practice.

Three losses could have far-reaching consequences. Just wait for the Italian and foreign media to sink their teeth into the debate, dissecting any and every shortcoming, shattering the confidence of many players and supporters... the sort of damage that could in part prove to be irreparable. Calcio may not ever die, but Italian teams must play as if their lives depended on it tonight.
kurtsimonw
I think that's a bit silly. If all 3 Italian sides were to go out, it would hardly be a crisis or even mean that the Italian league is bad at all. I personally believe United to be the best team in the World at the moment, so Inter going out wouldn't exactly be a disaster. Roma are having a bad season so to expect them to go and beat a team like Arsenal is always going to be tough, especially as they're already 1-0 down. Juve are in a tough position in the tie, with Hiddink now at Chelsea making things harder.

If 4 English sides went through though, I'd be delighted as it can only be good for the other teams in the league as people will see the EPL as the place to be. When they were drawn against Inter, Roma, Juve and Madrid I thought 2 to go through at best, but now 4 is a real possibility.
Tennie
With all due respect to Villa who I adore, I would prefer if all four English teams do NOT go through. There's already enough imbalance in the reporting of football over here (where anything non-EPL is written off as useless), for example. It'd only get worse. And, honestly, even though I'm already going to be in Italy that week, the thought of going to the Olimpico to watch (for example) Arsenal-dirtyrottenscousers....does not fill me with any sort of excitement.
Zed.D
Oh, I definitely hope not to see another all English/Italian final. only an all Spanish final [or to be exact, Real-Barca] would be something special, for me. but I'd still prefer two teams from different leagues.
dst
The top 4 in England are surely more powerful than the big teams in Spain and Italy and that's simply because they have built their squads on huge debts. In all honesty, as successful as United are at the moment, I would not want Milan to be in their position.

I think a salary cap sort of thing and the 6+5 thing would make things better for everyone in Europe.

@ Kurt... footballers should already be seeing EPL as the place to be and I do think it's the most popular league among them. However as in my opinion was proved by the Kaka saga, it's mainly the big 4 in EPL that's the place to be not every team in the league.

QUOTE (LaPalma @ Mar 10 2009, 01:25 PM) *
In my opinion it's neither the players nor the country they play in that fosters as special kind of playing football. It's us, the fans. You know, the EPL fan basically like fast attacking football, the primera division fan likes joga bonito, the Serie A fan likes good defenders and the Bundesliga fan has a weird affinity to teams that fight in the first place.

That's very interesting... you got me thinking!
Zed.D
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 10 2009, 09:55 PM) *
I think a salary cap sort of thing and the 6+5 thing would make things better for everyone in Europe.


Absolutely. for once I hope Blatter succeeds!
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 10 2009, 06:25 PM) *
I think a salary cap sort of thing and the 6+5 thing would make things better for everyone in Europe.

Both the salary cap and the 6+5 rules would be fantastic.. but I just don't see some leagues agreeing with it, they're basically agreeing to make less money really!

QUOTE (dst @ Mar 10 2009, 06:25 PM) *
@ Kurt... footballers should already be seeing EPL as the place to be and I do think it's the most popular league among them. However as in my opinion was proved by the Kaka saga, it's mainly the big 4 in EPL that's the place to be not every team in the league.

I dunno about that. Kaka'/Citeh isn't the best example, they were a few points from relegation at the time, so it's hardly a good comparison. Even hyped up youngsters like Modric and Dos Santos went to a very average EPL club, Arshavin also wanted to go there and Pavlyuchenko did. I'm not saying that players like Kaka' and Messi would be happy playing for average type clubs, but most would.

QUOTE
Absolutely. for once I hope Blatter succeeds!

I'm not fussed either way. If he succeeds, it's great for football. If he fails, good, he's a prick.
Nova
oh my , great play and chance by torres
Nova
and 20 seconds later mascherano ... wow , nice first 4 minutes
Tennie
Well. That was interesting. Nedved of all people being kicked to the point htat he has to be subbed off.
CrazyMilanFan
madrid CBs did a kaladze 1-0 to LP
CrazyMilanFan
Juve score good stuff by them
CrazyMilanFan
super build up specially trezguet
Tennie
Wow. Iaquinta too. Nicely done. smile.gif
vahid
Penalty for Liverpool.
They have too many Kaladze biggrin.gif
gal_kenny
That was not a penalty....bad decision!!!
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