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Zed.D
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 12 2009, 02:36 PM) *
Zeddie, I'm not seeing it in the online edition, but it's clearly referenced as being on page 20 in Miz's image of the cover above. The online edition doesn't have all of the content that the print edition does, unfortunately.

Ah, you're right. I didn't see it tehre.

Thanks!
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 12 2009, 12:29 AM) *
Even if Mou was as special as he claims to be, it's not enough... to win the CL with Inter you need to be God... and thankfully God's on the other side of the town...

Not really, it's unfortunate to play the best team in the World at the first hurdle, most teams would lose to United.

As for "Mourinho fluked it with Porto" type comments, it's not like there's an awful lot of managers out there who've won it with more than one team. I suppose SAF and Carlo are flukes until they win it elsewhere.

I'm hoping for these games..

United vs Barca
Chelsea vs Bayern
Arsenal vs Villarreal
Liverpool vs Porto

Liverpool vs United/Barca would be nice though, get rid of them!
Jack Sparrow
I want to see Barca progress a little more. They play good football.

I want to see matches, which would ensure the chances of an inter-nation final. But even so...

Barca v Liverpool
United v Villareal
Arsenal v Porto
Bayern v Chelsea

The first and the last matches, I definitely require to see, at some stage or the other. The other ones, I don't care about.

Hopefully a Barca-United final. Though I wouldn't mind if Arsenal got in, for a Barca- Arsenal replay. Seeing as how Liverpool-Milan got a replay, I think it's only fair.

After the stabbing, don't know if Arsenal fans back in Rome, might be a good idea. WTF is it with these Roman fans anyway.

They're as bad as the Scousers.
LaPalma
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 12 2009, 01:59 PM) *
Not really, it's unfortunate to play the best team in the World at the first hurdle, most teams would lose to United.

As for "Mourinho fluked it with Porto" type comments, it's not like there's an awful lot of managers out there who've won it with more than one team. I suppose SAF and Carlo are flukes until they win it elsewhere.

I'm hoping for these games..

United vs Barca
Chelsea vs Bayern
Arsenal vs Villarreal
Liverpool vs Porto

Liverpool vs United/Barca would be nice though, get rid of them!

Ottmar Hitzfeld won it twice. First in 1997 with Dortmund and then in 2001 as Bayerns coach.
Four English teams in the quarterfinal...that's impressing. A Barca vs. United clash would be great. Also, I'd like to see Bayern vs. Pool.
kurtsimonw
There's been alot of stuff about the 4 English teams getting through in the papers today. Things like "Why don't they just crown the winner of the FA Cup the Champions of Europe" and similar. laugh.gif
LaPalma
Ahem...no World Cup final in 43 years...ahem...
*runs away to the far side of the moon"
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (LaPalma @ Mar 12 2009, 02:57 PM) *
Ahem...no World Cup final in 43 years...ahem...
*runs away to the far side of the moon"

dry.gif

1 is enough, we just don't want to be greedy! biggrin.gif According to some people, England have never been the best team in the World, so the fact that we've even won 1 should be considered over-acheiving!

Anyways, I think United-Barca would be about the best Final, they're peasily the best 2 sides in the competition I reckon, though I wouldn't mind Chelsea-Bayern.. just something about them 2 teams that I think would make a great game.
kurtsimonw
With the risk of getting slammed by everyone heere.. isn't it time the Italian sides got kicked out of Europe? I know with Platini at UEFA it has approximately 0% chance of happening, but it seems that Roma are intent on causing trouble in every game they play. Of course it would be unfair to ban all Italian sides from Europe for one team causing trouble, but it stays in line with consistancy that all English sides got banned for Liverpols misbehavings.
Tennie
Well, maybe Arsenal should for its fans trashing shops in Rome?smile.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 12 2009, 03:33 PM) *
Well, maybe Arsenal should for its fans trashing shops in Rome?smile.gif

There's a difference between trashing shops and stabbing people. Trashing happens all the time, Lazio did it in Birmingham when they played a Cup Final at Villa Park, but that's the damage that comes with lots of travelling football fans and alcohol. Stabbing people is a different story.

It certainly is seeming like 1 rule for England, another rule for the rest. All violence is blamed on us at the moment.
Tennie
Not every set of travelling fans gets massively drunk before games though.
kurtsimonw
No, that's true. I think it's also a poor generalisation to say that it's just English fans that do. The Lazio fans that came over here did, however, causing many of the bars in the Aston/Erdington areas to be closed as the Lazio fans were causing trouble.

I'm also not sure what being drunk has to do with this? An bus of Arsenal fans going to the game got lost on the way to the Olimpico. Some of the Roma fans then began throwing things and breaking the windows, a Roma fan then entered the bus and stabbed an Arsenal fan.

In light of this, UEFA really proved they've got no balls, they threatened taking the final away from Rome if there was any trouble caused by Roma fans.. now apparently it's too short notice to move it. Cop out.

I don't particularly like Arsenal, but..



..justice.
Tennie
Kurt, I think the two of us had better drop this discussion because, well, we're never going to agree. smile.gif
Locke Lamora
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 12 2009, 04:33 PM) *
Well, maybe Arsenal should for its fans trashing shops in Rome?smile.gif


When did that happen? Before the game or after it? Is it still going on?
Tennie
Before the game, Locke.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 12 2009, 06:22 PM) *
Kurt, I think the two of us had better drop this discussion because, well, we're never going to agree. smile.gif

Fair enough. I will have problems if any English voilence gets bought up on here though after it seems perfectly acceptable for Roma fans to be defended for indefensable behaviour.
Tennie
You also do seem to have a problem anyone criticizing English fans for THEIR indefensible behavior which is exactly why the two of us at least should probably not re-do this argument (which if memory serves, we've had twice or three times already). smile.gif
kurtsimonw
EDIT: Nevermind, not worth it.
Tennie
Kurt, at the risk of reopening the argument I will note that in the various European (CL) games I have attended, the travelling support from Italy, Spain, France, and Spain a second time didn't noticeably trash the area around the stadium or in the particulary city's downtown. I don't think it's quite accurate - and certainly isn't for the games I attended on the continent (there were enough drunk Londoners/Chelsea fans outside Stamford Bridge after the one game I've attended there to make me frightened for my own safety)- to say that drunken trashing of shops happens at every European game. So, really, it IS news in Italy and in Portugal at least (the countries whose papers I read) when it happens. I agree that one person stabbing another is not only illegal but morally reprehensible. But I will note that if (as happened last itme there was a game in rome) a bunch of guys get drunk, dress all in black, put on ski masks, and barge into my pub, I wouldn't necessarily just let them stroll in and trash the place. I'd fight back.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Tennie @ Mar 12 2009, 07:30 PM) *
But I will note that if (as happened last itme there was a game in rome) a bunch of guys get drunk, dress all in black, put on ski masks, and barge into my pub, I wouldn't necessarily just let them stroll in and trash the place. I'd fight back.

Which is fair enough.

But ambushing a lost bus, smashing the windows and stabbing one of the fans on board isn't really the same as self defense as it were in the case you mentioned. Self defense is fine - though I'd question why on earth these people had weapons on them anyways - but when you're just attacking people for the 'fun' of it, it's gone way too far.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 12 2009, 04:42 PM) *
There's been alot of stuff about the 4 English teams getting through in the papers today. Things like "Why don't they just crown the winner of the FA Cup the Champions of Europe" and similar. laugh.gif

Yeah I remember when in 2007, with 3 English teams in the last 4, they were talking about how the final should be moved to England to accommodate the English clubs... well bang, a certain team messed their party and shut their mouths. I wish for their own good they'd be more modest this time around, after all only one team can win the trophy...

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 12 2009, 05:27 PM) *
With the risk of getting slammed by everyone heere.. isn't it time the Italian sides got kicked out of Europe? I know with Platini at UEFA it has approximately 0% chance of happening, but it seems that Roma are intent on causing trouble in every game they play. Of course it would be unfair to ban all Italian sides from Europe for one team causing trouble, but it stays in line with consistancy that all English sides got banned for Liverpols misbehavings.

I don't think that tragedy can be compared to what happened in Rome. Besides, it's not like UEFA banned the English sides on their own, your Prime Minister agreed on it...
Bluesummers
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 12 2009, 03:15 PM) *
Yeah I remember when in 2007, with 3 English teams in the last 4, they were talking about how the final should be moved to England to accommodate the English clubs... well bang, a certain team messed their party and shut their mouths. I wish for their own good they'd be more modest this time around, after all only one team can win the trophy...

devil.gif devilsmiley.gif

Like i said we need to back in this competition and show the clubs how its done. Save italy some face too cause god knows that inter will never win the champions league.
dst
QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Mar 12 2009, 11:46 PM) *
devil.gif devilsmiley.gif

Like i said we need to back in this competition and show the clubs how its done. Save italy some face too cause god knows that inter will never win the champions league.

Yup we're the only ones that can do it. The English sides are now undoubtedly better than the rest but Milan never were part of the rest... we will be back and we will be top!
MizNelson
QUOTE (Channel 4)
Money talks, says Galliani
Thursday 12 March, 2009
Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani claims financial factors were responsible for the Serie A representatives' Champions League failures.

After Fiorentina fell at the first hurdle, all three remaining teams were eliminated at the last 16 stage.

“The Italian teams are all out of the competition due to the economic crisis,” Galliani boomed on Radio Kiss Kiss.

“English clubs own their own stadiums, which are nearly always full, and they make a lot more money than us.

“Around 10 years ago we were making more money than the Spanish or English teams and we were dominant in Europe.

“If we don't buck the current trend then we risk losing our ranking as the third biggest European League, which would be a disaster.”

Galliani then commented on Inter's Champions League elimination at the hands of Manchester United.

“I'd like to remind everyone that the last time the Red Devils lost in the Champions League it was the semi-finals of the 2007 competition against us.

“They have gone 21 games unbeaten since then and the last game they lost at home was also against Milan in 2005.”

Jack Sparrow
^^

laugh.gif What a nutcase! I still love his bald head though. biggrin.gif

So...I think it's right. It's about time they decided to attack this problem with the finances and came up with a better system. Whether it is to buy stadiums or renegotiate TV rights or whatever.
Zed.D
This page is a must-read.

Read the comments too.
amancik
There's no doubt in my mind, that the english teams are superior than the italians. hopefully they realize this and make changes immediately to overcome this threat. For me the difference with english and italians teams is the balance.
Jack Sparrow
Yup. It's a balance in squad depth that seems to be the problem.

kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 12 2009, 09:15 PM) *
I don't think that tragedy can be compared to what happened in Rome. Besides, it's not like UEFA banned the English sides on their own, your Prime Minister agreed on it...

And he was right to do so, just as it would be right for Italians - or at the very least Roma - to be kicked out now. It seems everytime someone goes to Rome they end up getting stabbed or similar. It's not like it's a one off thing. English teams were not banned for any individual incident, it was more the straw that broke the camels back, holiganism had been running riot in England for a while.

QUOTE (dst @ Mar 12 2009, 09:15 PM) *
Yeah I remember when in 2007, with 3 English teams in the last 4, they were talking about how the final should be moved to England to accommodate the English clubs... well bang, a certain team messed their party and shut their mouths. I wish for their own good they'd be more modest this time around, after all only one team can win the trophy...

And of course I am happy Milan won that final.

It's nothing to do with the English being arrogant about it and thinking our teams are the best. It's more that we're sick to death of criticism about every aspect of our game from the rest of Europe that it's become very much "Europe seems to enjoy it when we'll fail.. we'll sure as hell let them know about it when we're doing well" kind of attitude.
vahid
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Mar 13 2009, 07:57 AM) *
This page is a must-read.

Read the comments too.


Proud for what?What happened about Italians? Italian football is falling further and further down in credibility
They have just one team in all European competitions now they can hold their heads high?
There are many big problems and no excuse is accepted,That’s about it, no pride. dry.gif
MizNelson
I agree with vahid. Channel 4 are such apologists for Italian football. However, I found this little nugget there:

QUOTE (Ch. 4)
[Mourinho] oversaw Inter’s worst European run in the last five years, stringing together just two wins, three draws and three defeats.


Mancini continues to look smarter every day.

Bluesummers
QUOTE

UEFA Must Investigate Man Utd 'Racist Abuse' Of Inter's Balotelli - Top Journalist
La Repubblica’s Gianni Mura has urged the European football authorities to investigate the alleged racist taunts directed at Balotelli and Vieira at Old Trafford.





Renowned Italian football journalist Gianni Mura wrote in La Repubblica newspaper that Inter striker Mario Balotelli and midfielder Patrick Vieira were subjected to racist abuse by Manchester United fans during the Champions League last 16 second leg clash last Wednesday.

“They [the English supporters] do it too, and it’s even worse,” Mura lamented in his weekly Sunday editorial ‘Sette Giorni Di Cattivi Pensieri’.

“Fans were doing monkey chants as soon as Balotelli and Vieira touched the ball, and now I am really curious to see if UEFA will start an investigation regarding this racist abuse.

“There is no point going there to ask questions, you can just watch the TV images. Otherwise, it will be evident that the fight against racism in football is only led through advertisements.”
RAI journalist Enrico Varriale asserted last week that Balotelli had been racially abused, and Mura's comments have now added further fuel to the fire.

English tabloid The Sun claimed that Chelsea forward Didier Drogba was racially taunted in Turin during the Champions League match with Juventus, and UEFA director of communications William Gaillard said that an investigation will be launched, if the allegations proved to be true.

It remains to be seen if there will be any such enquiry into the alleged events at Old Trafford and, unlike the Drogba incident, the English media have so far printed or said nothing about Balotelli and Vieira.


i call bs on this. England has more black players than any other european country.
kurtsimonw
Yeah, United fans are generally well behaved in this type of thing as well. If it were Everton or any of the north east clubs I'd have probably agreed with it since they've a history of that kind of thing.

I think the mistake the guy is making is the difference between booing and monkey chants. Vieira was getting the boo's an awful lot due to his Arsenal connections, while Baloteli was having a decent game and has a certain arrogance in him, which makes him a target for other fans. Though I could be wrong of course, hopefully not, I thought racism was a thing of the past here.
dst
How easy is it to stop those who do it? I think they should be banned... it's so disgusting to see such things happen nowadays.

I don't know if anything happened in this particular game, I did not hear anything from the TV.

@Kurt: I don't know what happens in England in general but I still can't forget the United fans chanting "he comes from Senegal, his dad's a cannibal" to Vieira in the FA Cup final some years ago.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 16 2009, 07:04 PM) *
@Kurt: I don't know what happens in England in general but I still can't forget the United fans chanting "he comes from Senegal, his dad's a cannibal" to Vieira in the FA Cup final some years ago.

I don't think that's racist to be honest, more of a poor generalisation. That's like saying "All English people are alcoholics", is racist, it's not..

Usually the club gets fined for racist behaviour and any individuals found out are given a lifetime ban from sporting events I think.
Locke Lamora
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 16 2009, 08:23 PM) *
I don't think that's racist to be honest, more of a poor generalisation. That's like saying "All English people are alcoholics", is racist, it's not..

Usually the club gets fined for racist behaviour and any individuals found out are given a lifetime ban from sporting events I think.


So labelling all senegalese people cannibals isn't rascist? Quite.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 16 2009, 09:23 PM) *
I don't think that's racist to be honest, more of a poor generalisation. That's like saying "All English people are alcoholics", is racist, it's not..

Usually the club gets fined for racist behaviour and any individuals found out are given a lifetime ban from sporting events I think.

We've had quite a few arguments in that past (ah... biggrin.gif ) but I've never disagreed more with you than I do now. Your opinion on this matter is so weird to me that it's close to being incomprehensible.
Only... cannibalism is eating other people, being an alcoholic is getting yourself drunk... I can't see the slightest similarity between these two things.

I don't think it's right to fine a club because of their fans singing racist chants... I mean, they can't force them to only say what they want. Sure if it happens time after time the club should be fined for not taking action but if it's a sporadic incident...
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Mar 16 2009, 07:43 PM) *
So labelling all senegalese people cannibals isn't rascist? Quite.



QUOTE (dst @ Mar 16 2009, 08:27 PM) *
We've had quite a few arguments in that past (ah... biggrin.gif ) but I've never disagreed more with you than I do now. Your opinion on this matter is so weird to me that it's close to being incomprehensible.
Only... cannibalism is eating other people, being an alcoholic is getting yourself drunk... I can't see the slightest similarity between these two things.

No, okay, maybe using alcoholism wasn't the best comparison. Maybe calling all Irish murderers is a better example. It's not racist at all, in my opinion, it's just a very bad generalisation. I don't se how it's racist. BUT if you are saying it's racist, then you're basically saying anything negative about another group of people is racism.. and that's currently what I hate most about the World, I can no longer say anything without being called a racist, it's PC gone mad.

QUOTE (dst @ Mar 16 2009, 08:27 PM) *
I don't think it's right to fine a club because of their fans singing racist chants... I mean, they can't force them to only say what they want. Sure if it happens time after time the club should be fined for not taking action but if it's a sporadic incident...

I agree, clubs shouldn't be punished for fans behavious and generally that's the case (unless you're an English team).
dst
What do you think is racist?
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Mar 16 2009, 09:12 PM) *
What do you think is racist?

PM.
Locke Lamora
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Mar 16 2009, 10:23 PM) *
PM.


Me too?
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Mar 16 2009, 09:46 PM) *
Me too?

When dst replies I'll send it on to you.. saves me writing it out again! tongue.gif
Habitant
QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Mar 16 2009, 05:30 PM) *
i call bs on this. England has more black players than any other european country.

france has more, wayyyy more.
Fillipo Simone
I think the racism issue is very problematic. My solution is to ignore such things. Sure, they are offending, but you just can't wipe them out completely.
Jack Sparrow
Goddamn Croats....they're all so goddamn....white?? unsure.gif

Now ignore me... tongue.gif
Tennie
The draw for the CL quarters has been made:

Villareal - Arsenal
MU - Porto
Chelsea - Liverpool
Barcelona - Bayern

Semis: Winner 2 v Winner 1
Winner 4 v Winner 3
kurtsimonw
Chelsea vs Liverpool again.. of FFS! AGAIN!? NOOOOOOOOO!

Arsenal vs United in an SF would be great! biggrin.gif
Zed.D
Oh for ****'s sake!!! why does it always have to be Chelsea-Liverpool realmad.gif
Zed.D
Looks like Man U will be in the final again. it couldn't get any easier for those lucky sons of guns!
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