And this is why people who actually watch the game KNOW who is the better player. Pirlo seems to be the king of minor stats (i.e. not goals and assists)

BUT out of all his passes (I'm speaking mainly about the latter half of his career in Milan):
- How many of them were back/sideways passes?
-HOW MANY WERE RIDICULOUS SILLY PASSES THAT PUT THE DEFENSE UNDER IMMENSE PRESSURE?
-How many free kicks did he attempt and how many missed?
-How many missed BADLY?

Another statistic that gets completely overblown is his mileage......people who don't actually watch him play and read the goal.com summaries or watch the youtube highlights would SWEAR that he was actually superb when he ranges from good to average to poor.

Just face the fact that you're wrong on this. You're incredibly biased and don't like the man. Players don't become near universally lauded as linchpin star players by accident. He was the engine behind our midfield for years and without him many times we were completely clueless.

Pirlo has departed, with Mark van Bommel in his place, but Pirlo remains the most gifted, and the most prolific, passer in the league. He completes 81.2 passes per game at Juventus, a figure the Milan midfield can only dream of. Their top passer is actually a centre-back, Thiago Silva, with 64.1. Granted, van Bommel is not far behind on 62.5, but the style of passing is completely different to Pirlo. Whereas Pirlo plays 2.7 key passes per game, van Bommel’s figure is just 0.2.

Don't waste your time, D'arc.

Fine. he's a good passer. I haven't argued much against this.....he is still overrated by virtue of the direction of these passes. Forward passes are obviously more risky. You'll attempt them less and get a lower % of them successful. I'm not saying that he's completely worthless but the statistics without analysis can be misleading
Won't deny my own bias...but then if there weren't a rang of opinions, having a forum where these could be debated would be pointless.

Juventus success proves I am still number one, claims Pirlo

Go on rub it in Pirlo....there are those that would still worship you as a Milan legend and praise your judASS behaviour.

Soooo classy

In other news take your ill gotten, referee assisted Scudetto and use it as a suppository to cure your anal discomfort at Milan

I have nothing against Pirlo personally, but I didn't like his #1 comment. it was disappointing because he never looked like the self-boasting type. but apparently that's what you become when you work with Cunte.



That finally and definitely settles the argument about what caused his departure. contract issues, lack of motivation.

Yet some people still keep saying Allegri was the reason, he can't handle creative players, he loves muscles, blah blah blah. it was a good move for him, and would've been a good move for us if we actually brought a good replacement. we didn't and it came to bite us in the ***, naturally.

And for me that's Italian diplomatically-correct speak for I don't want to work with the coach anymore. 'New motivations, new challenges'...

A multiple champions league winner+world-cup winner+reigning scudetto holder moved to a club without CL football, a noobie coach for extra motivation??

The only extra motivation from taking a step down is to be a big fish in a small pond. Now this begs the question as to why exactly Pirlo felt he was no longer important aka a big fish in Milan. When even when we had the debacle season under Leo, he never complained or requested to leave. In fact even then he talked of ending his career here.

This is down to the coach and management I'm afraid.

"I still felt I was #1 in my position and wished to prove it"...so who told him otherwise? His team mates? Definitely not.

Pirlo looked like that way before Allegri came. arguable from 2007 onward.

You said it, man. I've started to really dislike the Pirlo I've seen these last 12 months, both on and off the field. And people crucify Leonard for less (who I don't really think that highly of anyway, as a coach). For me Juventus will always be enemy number one, not just because of their pathetic everything, but their domestic record too.

I'm normally not sentimental, but anyone that goes directly from Milan to Juventus better die and burn there, for all that's worth. For me, it's many a times worse than going to the blue and black part of Milan. No matter what people say, Juventus will always be our main rival domestically. I see fans (not here, but other places) really happy that we've got the old Juventus back, now Serie A will finally be interesting, well we'll see how interesting it will be when Juventus keep on winning the Scudettos 5 years running. At this point I'm willing to bet they'll be at 35 before we get to 20.

The world was a happy place when Juventus was in Serie B. Too bad good things rarely last forever! We should be dueling with the Old Hag, instead of downgrading ourselves to fight with our inter-city cousins. As dirty as inter are, if we shy away from the fight (against Juventus), well that's the mark of a scared champion. Pirlo, or anyone else that chooses Juventus instead of us is the real TRAITOR.

And people had the guts to label Sheva and Kaka (and Leo) this.

Hey now, don't let the truth get in the way of a baseless arguement!

Pirlo should rub it in some more. To show the management and our short-sighted coach what a howler they made

Yep, it's just diplomacy. What would you say: "I'm sorry I left, I was gonna stay but they didn't offer enough so I decided to go with my second solution"? No, no.

Isn't it clear like day that Allegri couldn't integrate people like Ronaldinho or Pirlo in his one-dimensional muscle machine?

Yep, now we can enjoy the beutiful styling of Muntari instead. How lovely

And it wasn't about money, but length of contract

Losing a crap lazy unmotivated player like Pirlo was never the problem.


Not upgrading was the problem. This Milan is currently so awful that a past-his-best Kaka and a slow "unmotivated" gay porn star fairy- who hasn't scored a freekick for us since 08 - would be instant upgrades

Diplomacy is perfectly fine by me, agreed on that bit, but one would think a player would show more respect to the club that made him what he is. It's not just the interview, all year I've got the feeling and vibes that Pirlo wants to rub it into Milan as a club. Had he chosen any other outfit, I'd be okay, but going to our direct most rival.

A player like him had could have done wonders almost everywhere, Italy and abroad.

I say handing that player with a red bow to a direct rival was a serious problem

He basically said he wanted a change. What could we do? Become a different club?

He wanted a 3 year deal first. Had we offered him that he would have stayed.

The Club finally implementing that 1 year rule after years of giving 5 year deal to duds is why he looked at other clubs. Juve gave him what he wanted a 3 year deal with a reasonable wage (3.5m - much less than what he earned here)

Agreed Totally.

But please for the love of all that's sacred NEVER mention this Ladri turd in the same breath with Maldini, Kaka and Carlo as so many posters seem to do

He's NOT a legend, he never was anything past a great (not even world class imho) player and WE (AC MILAN) made him what he is today. He was a languishing mediocre CAM at Printer and Carlo's use of him as a deep lying playmaker got him his success. He can't even claim that totally because Carlo surrounded him with Gattuso and sometimes Ambro too.....i.e. he was possibly the only player in front of the defense that couldn't tackle for $#!t. He was incredibly intelligent, has great technique and his anticipation was world class....but he brought BIG BIG flaws that Carlo knew how to mask for a while but couldn't maintain with Gattuso's declining physical ability.

He was rubbish in Carlo's last year. Utter and complete garbage and was a slightly improved defensive liability under Leo- who made the mistake of using him as a complete CM (i.e. one that could defend properly and not get beaten by every above average attacker).

Curse Seedorf all you want but he LOVES Milan. The guy F**KING cried when Tottenham booted us out. When is the last time Pirlo ever showed that kind of emotion for this club?? He's always been cold, emotionless and LANGUID. Seedorf and ALL the senatores that truly loved this club took their one year rolling contracts no problem.....but no that wasn't goof enough for f**king Mr I'm #1

He had to go to a rival warning us that he'll help Juve to win the title and win they did. I've never seen him here as fired up as I saw him in a Ladri uniform. Before players would get past him left and right. These days he actually tracks back and tries to get the ball.....Conclusion? He's WORSE ARROGANT MERCENARY SCUM than iBra. Heck at least iBra puts some effort into it.

I would take offense to that, but then I might have been among the few who called R99 fat. So whatever...

The gay porn star fairy, under a n00b coach just turned a bunch of ragtag individuals into scudetto winners. So go figure...

Nothing against gays...please no offense meant.

Wow

The first and foremost reason why Juve are champs is Conte and the winning mentality he brought to that club (as much as I dislike his manners, I've always given him credit for that. I even said he was the new Mourinho in that way). that's clear as daylight.

If it wasn't for Conte, Pirlo would have achieved nothing with them. imagine him joining the Juve of last season. do you think they'd have finished 1st instead of 7th? no way. they didn't believe in themselves, Conte made them believe, that's all.

I'm not denying what he's done, he's given them that extra quality needed to win a title, he's been nothing short of fantastic every time I've watched him play. but to say HE turned his teammates into Scudetto winners is plain fanboyism and simply not true.

He said he has decided to change team since February. Our mistake was not trying to convince him to stay. Remember Gattuso a few years ago, he was so close to signing with Bayern, but Galliani locked him in his office and told him he wasn't going anywhere! We simply didn't employ the same attitude with Pirlo. It was like, "Oh well, OK. Good luck". And we all know why. cough:allegri:cough

But I think our love to Pirlo and sentiment clouds us a bit. Let me put it this way: Pirlo has been hurt by our management and by our club, and like any maestro would do, he's now proving his quality. But in the process, he's done some not so classy things I won't forget. All his comments I can understand, even if they sound a bit petty; but his behavior in our direct meeting, where he elbowed his ex-teammates, dived and nervously played the whole game through...well, I must say, I've seen stars who got hurt as much as Pirlo but approached in a more classier way.

Exactly! Top post. Thing is, all through the season, Pirlo seemed to be on a personal vendetta. Unclassy.

Saw this at another blog. Though more in line with what Dru would post, there is some truth in it. Personal opinion, yes I know, but I to think along the same (if less extreme) lines. At this point I'd say Seedorf, Nesta and Ambrosini are the only true remaining club legends, who have done the club shirt proud.

Gattuso threatened to leave and did some despicable things to stain the name of AC Milan. And Pirlo, bah!

Shame on you!!!

Ha, the man's sadly been out of the picture for so long (shame on Allegri), that I just forgot. Inzaghi is most definitely in the first group - Ambrosini, Nesta, Seedorf and him. In fact, I wouldn't mind one bit if he wants to continue for another season, and has the physical strength to do so.

But if not his place as contemporary legends of AC Milan is more than secure! Whenever I will remember the Milan generation of 2000-10, he'll be a name that shines brightly along with other titans of the game!

Put another way......Leo got FARRR more hate for going through more $h!t and being less of a traitor than Pirlo. Leo was given a worse deal by being made to coach despite his reluctance to do it, not given the tools to succeed and BLAMED when the inevitable failure took place even with a worse squad than $h!tlegri has at his disposal.

On the R&B forums Kaka and $heva were made to look like money hungry mercenaries for their respective moves.
All of Leo, Kaka and $heva did nothing nearly as despicable as this guy with his "point to prove" ($heva's Chel$k! badge kissing aside). So for the life of me I cannot understand the continued veneration he receives from a sizable sector of fans like kurt for instance

Maybe not a 'legend' for a few reasons, but Abbiati has been very good and made over 250 appearances for us.

For the first time today I agree with you

Letting Pirlo go was a major mistake and one of the main reasons for Juve's title win. Juve wouldn't have been half as good without him, but Conte was certainly the one who orchastrated it all


Yes, but he decided to leave after the told him it was only a 1 year option or nothing. Had they budged he would have stayed

Yeah, even though I don't like the fact that he gets the armband ahead of Silva, fact's are fact. 250 appearances (even if as a keeper) are huge. And he may not be talked about like other more popular players are, but Abbiati has been a long-standing figure between our posts for many a years. Agreed.

You hate Pirlo for leaving to Juve on a free. But you're okay with Abbiati?

I don't get it.

No, I'm not okay with Abbiati. But I can't deny the times he played for us all these years, and frankly he had to go because we got a better option in Dida as the first choice. What he did there (yeah that singing incident) I sure as hell am not okay with. But then again, he is not Buffon, or you know commands a stature like our other legends.

That's why I said, I don't quite like it when he wears the captain's armband ahead of Thiago Silva. Besides, I don't hate Pirlo (cliché statement, I know, and may have heard it many a times from me, but hate is too strong a word for me). I really dislike what he did. Leaving to our biggest rival, and that too on a free transfer.

That's a no-no in my book. But hey, if he is happy then I'm happy for him. Even if I think he's done some real unclassy stuff these past few months, on and off the pitch. Completely no respect for Milan from him. Or at least that's what I and a lot of other people I know (and watch matches with) saw. Multiple times, at that.

Your viewpoint may be different, being a fan of the guy, surely. I won't be forgetting all he did for us, just as I won't be remembering him any further. It's not like AC Milan bought him, he was free to go, and he went. Made a decision, and it paid off for him. I did expect more grace from him, but if he's happy, I'm glad.

For me it was the case of any other but Juventus. They are our real domestic competitors, no matter how much we gloss over the inter rivalry and derby, etc. inter come second. If we plan on winning more Scuedttos, the guys in black and white will be the ones standing in our way, more often than not.

But hey, it's one season, let's see what this year brings. For Pirlo. For Huntelaar. For all other players!

No one asked but for me, Abbiati is a non entity

He was never as good as Dida when Dida was on top and he was never as calamitous when he was bad. Solid Keeper. Fascist scum. San Chi non salta rossonero because....I dunno he thought he was going to stay with Juve perhaps?
I really like acid's quoted post about P!rlo being a traitor but I can deal with mercenaries. I'm more peeved by fans who bandy about the term "legend" to undeserving SCUM like Pirlo.

Man your posts are extreme to the max With nice colorful language, which is even more extreme, but I love them. Solid keeper, fascist scum, ha! When you hate someone you really do give them what's coming, no one can deny that! Take my advice, man, don't ever leave this forum.

I may not always agree with everything you say, but everything you say will be a joyous read, that I agree!

I rarely ever agree with dru. But I can't find anything wrong with what he just said about Abbiati.

True. But until we find someone really better for the GK position, I wish Abbiati the best next season. Particularly if we are to win something next year (as hard as it sounds). Abbiati is an all-rounder, not really great at anything, but good in a lot of things. Not a specialist, but can do the job.

I'd rate the guy 7/10 at his best, 4/10 at his worst. Problem is Amelia is just about similar to him in quality.

No, he decided to leave in February. We offered the new contract renewal proposals around April/May. But like I said, had we persuaded him to stay, he probably would have changed his mind. But we simply didn't care about it, because Allegri had already chosen van Bommel.

The players knew what the options were before April. Negotiations with some of them had already taken place as well. Pirlo wanted those 3 years. He said so in some interview a few months back, when they wouldn't budge on it he sought other options.

If he made the decision to leave in February then it was only after he was given the ultimatum

And yes, the mnagement never really fought for him to stay. Had they even tried they would have given him the length in contract he wanted for a smaller wage and it would have been done. But as you said, they had no motive to do so since Allegri didn't see a spot for him in the team. Tasotti even alluded to this at the end of last season

Thanks so much bro...always nice to have a friend

RE: The toothless fairy:

There's something all the posters here not named dru don't get I will now elucidate on it

EVEN if the striped ballerina stayed he wouldn't have been 0.1% the player for us he was for Ladrinho. Pity it took him playing like he was the lovechild of Stephen Hawkins & Ray Charles - causing his true value to lost in a myriad of "differently abled" pedestrian performances- for $h!tlegri to undervalue him...... resulting in a re-kindling of his lost motivation causing him to reproduce things we hadn't seen since Seedorf hair

Nice!

And yes, as said above, Pirlo hasn't been the same player since 2007. What irks me is that while I always thought of him as a lazy genius (and someone who took it very easy on the pitch), he went downhill after our CL win. It's like after the world cup, and a good European run next year, he just didn't care. Obviously, now he seems to care!

He left at 397 caps for Milan, 3 shy of 400 appearances. I'd have stayed another year just for statistics sake!

Pretty much I have no problem with him being our keeper and he's performed very well this season. But I'll never really take to him after his time with Juve.

Yeah, same. I'm thank him when he puts in a good performance, not impressed when he doesn't. Personally I don't think Abbiati cares or wants Milan fans to like him after what he did all those years back. He's just glad to be back and starting, and probably just gets the armband just for seniority's sake.

Would be interesting if they make Silva a permanent club captain in a couple of years to tie him up at Milan.

I love you man... Especially for the bold part... You made me feel all fuzzy inside

Why, thank you! Glad I did. I can only hope you don't run into some of them pathetic Juventus fans anytime soon, who think that not only their club is a gift to the world of football, but the whole world is against them. Italy, Europe, UEFA officials, everyone. And that's not even talking about their dirty play, pressuring referees, etc.

And then they've got sick little names for everyone and their grandmothers, they lie, cheat, steal, anything for a result. Like I said, it was a good few years when Juventus got what they had coming and stayed in the wilderness of Serie B. But now with their Scudetto, I fear they will be back and gain strength from now on. Sad.

Seriously, I abhor violence, but I'd give a good kick to the knickers to the next person who calls us Bilan.

Guess I'm in the minority. I always respected Juve as an opponent. I thought they were the only ones worth competing with. I look down on Inter...and find Roma delusional.

I want us to beat Juve really really bad...but for me it's a pure sporting rivalry. Their shirt is just as glorious as ours..as far as I'm concerned...calciopoli excluded.

To be honest, so do I when I say that they are really our only competition. Domestically speaking, of course. We'll have to notch ourselves a few levels down to compete with Inter and Roma, for instance, while technically there shouldn't even be a competition against Udinese and Napoli - these are not big clubs.

But our main event, title fight will always be against Juventus. Our biggest challenge. Derby is fun, but winning the two Juventus matches should be our main concern each year. We had a chance to rake up 4-5 titles while Juventus were down in Serie B. Sadly Inter made the most out of it while the Milan management was sleeping.

And now this season, when we (owning to a lot of factors) gave away the Scudetto, more than Juventus won it.

As usual, we agree Captain