What the heck ?!
In 2007 NO ONE , neither Berlusconi believed we can win CL.
We had only Nesta, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf and Kaka who were doing well ! The rest of the team was under average. With no good striker (like Henry,Sheva,Rooney,...) the CL is almost impossible to win and guess who won it ?

I'm doing it???

I compared Leo to Carlo because Leo is the only other coach we've had recently. What does it have to do with him being Brazilian? You're the one bringing up the issue when anyone even mentions a Brazilian player in a positive light. You know I knew this discussion would end up here as you always manage to somehow bring this argument as the 'final say'. It's like we're all out to get the Italian players and dip the Brazilian ones in goal. When that clearly is not the case for any of us.

And Maldini is the only Italian I like??

Pirlo, Rino, Zambro, Nesta, Antonini, Boriello, Pippo (in his days), Abate, all are big favourite Italian players of mine who all play for Milan. Then I can go on to list all the players that are Italian who I like from other teams but that list would be endless, let's not all forget the endless arguments me ans max used to have over Gila back in the days. And when it comes to Brazilians the only Brazialian players that I like are usually Milan players. I really have no interest in any others that don't play for my team. So I'm wondering how this makes me an Italian player hater?


2007 was nothing more then a fluke, let's face it. A fluke that imo, sent us back 5 years, because of that CL win the management continued to dwell and let the team get into the state it's in now.

Well, han, I don't recall you - Gila arguments aside, I had forgotten those - ever having a kind word to say about Italian players. I DO recall the mountains of criticism against Pippo, Ambro, Carlo as coach, etc. At the same time, I see the 'Leo shouldn't be blamed' arugment for him having to face the same sorts of problems Ancelotti did when 'it was a fluke' we did anything worthwhile. And I recall quite vividly your rather harsh criticism of my person when she dared to criticize Kaka's performances in 08-09.

In other words, I just don't see evidence in your posts that you have any genuine fondness for any of Milan's Italians -- quite the contrary in a couple of cases, especially Pippo -- while you seem to bristle if anyone dares criticize certain of its Brazilians.

That's insignificant.

han, by the spring of last year, I wanted Ancelotti out as much as you did, but simply because his time at Milan was over, not because I was doubting his coaching skills. Ancelotti remains, to me, one of the best managers of the last 10 years, if not the greatest.

I dont get it. After Calciopoli, if we wouldn't win that CL now we wouldn't have players like Pato,Silva,Pirlo and Ronaldinho. Wining 2007 Cl was a very good thing that made Berlusconi not to sell players. Berlusconi is never going to sell Milan and the word INVEST is not his dictionary any more. He will keep sell and sell players, play how he wants with coaches and in the end he'll say I'm the biggest fan of Milan. He is the menagment and the others doesnt matter to him.
But let's not change the topic (Well, its already changed, we are talking about Ancelotti and CL in Pirlos thread).

Really no kind words? Antonini has been a secret boy crush of mine this season and I haven't even tried to hide it. Not to mention my undying love for Nesta (But I know he's your person's guy, so I won't go anywhere near him). Abate, even though he's made his fare share of mistakes in defense I've always stood behind. My Rino vs Ambro endless debates with kurt should clue you in about how much I love Rino. Pirlo is a given, there haven't been a lot of good to say about him these past couple of years since he's been mostly poor but I'm still a big fan, I was a fan of his while at Brescia and I still am. Don't even mention him going to Chelsea next season, I'll pounce!!

Pippo I just can't stand to see make a fool out of himself anymore! That's why I wrote in the old Pippo. For me he should have gone out on a high after CL win, gone out a legend. Yet he's stayed and it's really starting to diminish what he's achieved.

I admit, I'm no big fan of Ambro, I just don't like the type of player he is and I have no qualms about admitting it. It doesn't matter if he's Italian/Spanish/English or Brazilian, I'm just not a fan, simple as.

Regarding Carlo. If you were a member in a 06 you would see how I felt about Carlo. I was the one fighting it out with Porty and the rest in Carlo's favour, but I just grew to really see him for what he really was when he didn't have a great team at his disposal anymore. That's the reason I don't rate him as highly as I once did.

Regarding Kaka, yes I used to defend him, just like I've defended Nesta, Thiago, Bori, Luca and Ronnie this season, because even though they weren't all consistant 100% of the time they were still all the most important players on the team for us and even when not playing at their best they still gave more then most to the team. Kaka's 08/09 season was ravaged by injuries, but just like Paolo that season, he was still the one stepping up and getting us through sh!tty times when most of the team was hanging their heads in defeat.

For me, the only foreigner that could do no wrong was not a Brazilian but Ukranian and I still love Sheva no matter what. Kaka I'm meh about now, but Sheva I'd sill take back in a heart beat. That should answer your question regarding the Brazilian debate.

And really at the end of the day I don't care about their nationality, as long as they play well for the team I support I don't care where they come from. And you shouldn't either.

Maybe it was because his time was up and he didn't have anything left to offer for Milan. And what you saw as his time being up I saw as tactical weakness. I just never understood how Carlo could go from having Milan play some of the best football in Europe to the team that came out in 07, no ideas, no spark no nothing.

It's like the entire team only switched on for the latter part of that CL campaign and nothing else for the remaining few years.

I always atributed this to the team losing it's strength, tus Carlo being unable to cope tactically with the loss of quality in the squad


lol

Anyway, yes we did get Pato, (Thiago and Dinho don't have anything to do with the CL win imo, but that's another thing all on it's own) Imo the CL put us back because it continued to give Galliani and Silvio excuses about still being a competitive team, 'we just won the CL, we don't need to invest in the squad, we're fine as we are, bla bla'.

And that thinking has lead us to now. The entire squad is almost all over 30 aside from a handful of players, we're at a point were the entire team will need to be overhauled in 2 years max, and that is the result of the management not starting to rebuild earlier.

The CL didn't make Berlu not sell players, it baught him more time to not spend money without fans getting on his back.

And Pato came because we gave him the best options and were the most interested. Real and Chelsea were still oing hot and cold about him and we pounced and gave him a nice offer, that's what made Pato choose Milan imo, not the CL win



Anywhooooo, I'm off to bed, it's almost midnight here and I have to wake up at 7 in the morning. Nighty night Fishy!

Everything has to do with CL. It gave us +100 million. I can't even imagine the team and the fans if we wouldn't won that year.
And , we all know how Berlusconi makes and spend money.
I'm just courios in one thing. How a person getting older incrases his interest for young girls and looses for his giant club ? Shouldn't it be the counter ? (And sorry for my bad english) :]

han, I still think we're seeing things a little differently but that's fair enough. I'd have no reason to push the penguins in (and vice versa) if we always agreed on things.

Thanks for explaining your views in such detail (even if I disagree with you on several points).

Can we be co-fanboys of Antonini?

i want in!!!!!

I want in too!!!

No, you already stole Nesta from all of us!!!!!

And I'm curious about the points you disagree upon... Is it the Carlo thing, because like I said to x-off maybe I just see things in a black and white, while you see it differently.

Let's just put it this way, I love the Carlo of the first 4 seasons, but can't stand the Carlo of the last 3 seasons. Does that make any sense?

Anywayssss, back to Pirlo. I think he'll have one last monster WC, I have faith in him

And Jack if you mention the going to Chelsea thing one more time I'll come get you myself

Not true! Not true at all, han!

My person is sharing Nesta with dst. *I* have no dibs on anyone.

I just think you see things in starker terms in general than I do. You seem hypercritical at times when I don't think it's warranted.

He's way too cool for Milan anyway. I don't see why you're being such a square about it. C'mon Andy...let's go to London. Partaaayyyyy!

Pirlo.. he's obviously degraded.. even his free kicks are not as those in the past.. Is he called for the national team?

Pirlo is not degraded, the team is older and so is he. He need a good supporter like Flamini.
His free kicks are still very good, he just didn't had opportunity to prove it last two seasons.
Yes he is called for the national team and is in the starting XI.

HOT!!!

PIRLO NAMED AZZURRI CAPTAIN

MILAN - Our own Andre Pirlo has been named Italy captain and the midfielder's comment can be found at the Italian football federation site.

http://www.figc.it/index_en.shtml

ACMilan.com

He takes free kicks all the time. No opportunities to prove it? Huh??

Great decision. I'm still holding out for when he's our captain not just the vice captain

fishy, i've noticed you really enjoy finding pics like these :-) I have to say i really enjoy looking at them, not in any non-hetero way, but only because it's so outrageous how these guys get photographed sometimes.

Our team is pull of pin-ups. Is there any other team that has so many models?! lol.

edit: prlly madrid and barca. all the Spaniards and Portuguese like to gel their hair before playing.

I like the guy an awful lot, but think he's one of the biggest problems in our squad.

We literally have to fit a team around him all the time, because he's so unique as a player. Because of this, though, it makes it awkward for us to try and get a good system working.

You can't play with him and 1 DM because you'll jus be over-run in midfied.
You can't play with him and 2 DMs because you have no support for the forwards.

With him, Ronaldinho and Seedorf on the field there's just no movement at all, last night was just suicide.

Kurt, I think if you play a DM (Flamini) and a box-to-box (Boateng) next to Pirlo, everything will be fine. Flamini will act as Pirlo's "water carrier" whilst fending off the opponent's attack, whilst Boateng will provide support for both attacking and defensive manoeuvres. If you think about, it's perfect. Problem is, Allegri keeps playing a 32 year old DM and a 34 year old AM next to him, so obviously the team will be unbalanced and the midfield will suffer a great deal of the opponent's pressure. In other words, the midfield will be inexistent, like last night's game evidenced.

You know .. I think Kurt is making a point, it used to be possible to play with Seedorf, Pirlo and Rui/Kaka/Ronaldinho ... With the only constant factor being Pirlo and Seedorf, while alternating between the triquartista position with Rui/Kaka/Ronaldinho.

Back then we had a coach who knew how to employ each player in the machine that once was AC Milan. Today, both Seedorf and Pirlo cant give 100% playing 2 or 3 games a week. They are both obviously seasoned veterans, but they should not be played for the majority of games together.

They should alternate, giving room for Boateng/Flamini to also contribute. This has been documented all over this forum so you get the gist.

But for me, I am no longer watching Milan .. I'm watching a baboon sitting on our bench, carelessly throwing away 3 points to Madrid .. The team didn't even put up a fight!

I think the best solution is let Milan play without Pirlo, this legacy of him being the deep laying play maker is a five star attribute, yet we cant depend on him for 30 games a season. We need him at 100% every time he takes the pitch.

I see Milan being ***** in midfield, and this really is pissing me off ... Our best weapon used to be our midfield, controlling the tempo, yadda yadda yadda ..

Now it is just Allegri trying to impress Silvio, "Look boss, here are your three strikers, game in game out" .. WTF ?!

Loosing both Carlo and Paolo in one summer is the biggest of blows ... For fucks sake, we have no character, no passion, and aside from a handful, the majority are taking a fucking ride.

And what is with Bobinho kissing the fucking emblem when he fucking scored ... Yeah right

More than ever, I am seriously contemplating drowning a fish

Wow you swore a lot! I wonder why the fucks weren't filtered!

Anyway, I disagree. Gattuso and Seedorf, yes. but Pirlo, as X-Off said, can still play regularly with different players beside him. I'm not saying there aren't better options on the table, we can overhaul the midfield including Pirlo and have a new, great midfield. but that's impossible given that we're not Madrid. we got to hang on to Pirlo, but Seedorf and Rino seriously need to be on the bench and act as KPB, Ambro and Flamini's substitutions.

Ditto. Pirlo still got it (he was one of the very few who can be saved last night), he just needs to play alongside two strong midfielders. In the past, he could rely on the strength of Gattuso and Seedorf, but today the aforementioned players are passed their prime. That's why Allegri needs to start paying Flamini and Boateng as regulars.

You'll see, if we field a strong and fast squad, things will turn around quickly. Thus, out Gattuso, Seedorf and Dinho > in Flamini, Boateng and Robinho.

+1 to Zed.D and X-Off. The exasperating thing is that there are so many of us here who have reiterated these sentiments week in week out — constantly '+1-ing' eachother for our shared opinions — only to see nothing change...

X-Off, At first I thought ur signature was premature. But now, after this madrid performance, my patience for him is up. Next match will be a defining match for Allegri. if there is no evidence that Allegri has learned anything, then I'll have to adopt a similar signature.

We are broken records. And as a fan, it's a defeating feeling.

Now who'd have thought a while back it'd be me and you arguing the same case against others?

to be fair to both of you, I personally do not disagree with what you and R7 said. Pirlo truly does shackle our tactical possibilities a little bit. He's a player that loans the ball to players with the expectation of getting it back, so he can continue to orchestrate. He needs players around him constantly making incisive runs for him to pick out, or looking to give him the ball back.

However, i'd attribute our problems no so much to him, but rather our midfield as a collective. In our current set up with Pirlo, Dinho, and Seedorf all playing together, we have three players looking to do that same thing. As a result, they all end up sort of standing around, playing lateral passes to eachother until one is closed down and forced into some hopeful ball towards an unsupported striker.

The real issue is not so much with Pirlo — cuz out of the three he's still probably the best play maker — but rather when all three are played together their redundancy cancels out eachother's effectiveness. Our strikers are never sure of when one of them is going to launch a ball towards them, so often when Pirlo/zee/Dinho look up to them, the timing of their runs are off. Therefore, the three sort of make harmless passes to eachother, each hoping the next time they get it the perfect ball will appear. This makes marking for our opponent easy, and renders our midfield useless. That's why the majority of the goals we've scored have come from one of those hopeful balls, and not a tempo-controlling midfield build up.

I think that Zed.D, X-Off, and I are looking at this from the standpoint making the best of what we have. Once accepting that of the three, Pirlo is our steadiest option for orchestrate play, we need to create a team around him that will play for his strengths. A team with players willing to defer to his play-making and do the necessary running for him — Flamini or Ambro to one side, Boateng on the other — with some pacy goal minded forwards running into channels (Robinho and Pato) and a target man for him to pick out when necessary (Ibra), play-making opportunities would arise, and Pirlo would flourish.

As of right now, it's entirely plausible to argue it's a two way street. It all depends on our team selection. If you see Seedorf and Dinho as fundamental to our starting 11, then yes, Pirlo shackles our tactics. On the other hand, it can be said that our team selection in fact often shackles him...

Great post vnata, I couldn't agree more.

Tru dat. Times they are a changing!

Best movie intro, ever.

You can bet the farmhouse on that. Great song, and perfect start to a really good movie. Watchmen was totally faithful to the graphic novel. I just hope Snyder's take on the next Superman film is equally as good. He recently signed on as director for that, and with Nolan as the produced, that makes it my most anticipated movie ever. December 2012 can't come soon enough.

It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman - kicking a major villain's butt in super slow mo!

Pirlo thread successfully Hi-jacked!

Matt Damon is coming out with some awesome stuff: 1) That new Clint Eastwood directed movie with Matt Damon looks good. 2) So does "True Grit" with Damon, Jeff Bridges, and Josh Brolin.

Right on.

B@st@rds!!!!

We stole your job, captain! As a matter of pure fact, I was feeling a tad surprised when I typed 'Superman' in Pirlo's thread. That's about as off topic as one can get. But then I said, what the heck, the video Kurt posted is without doubt one of the finest visuals I've ever seen.

You were the master at thread-napping and forum hijackings - we just learned from the best!

Count me in.

Milan resumed training this afternoon: after warming up, the Rossoneri played a series of matches amongst the squad. Andrea Pirlo trained with the rest of the team again. Also Christian Abbiati worked on the field, doing goalkeeping exercises along with his colleagues.


Awesome!

Andreaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Thank God!

Our midfield needs help!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







Link


Someone please tell me, who it was that hurt my Andy. I have a murder to plan.

He hurt himself.

Blow of the season so far.

Again?

...and so the Prince of Milan career comes to an end.




Farewell Andrea, you have made us proud over the years and for that we thank you!