the best part is that fruit hernandes rolls around like he was hurt just as bad...

Sports Personality of the Year was won by Ryan Giggs.

I actually thought this was usually given to quite a deserving person. No offense to Giggs, I like him, but he started 12 games for United in the league last season and beats out World Champions like Jenson Button and David Haye? How fucking stupid. Lifetime achievment, sure, he's one of the most decorated players ever, but this is stupid!

I should just be thankful that Andy Murray didn't get it I suppose.

FIFpro World XI

Casillas

Alves
Vidic
Terry
Evra

Gerrard
Iniesta
Xavi

Messi
Torres
Ronaldo

No Puyol? bah.

My first thoughts when I saw it, also.

I just posted the NY Times version of the story in the world cup thread since Cabanas is a big part of Paraguay's team.

Terribly, terribly sad.

Tommy Mooney was on Soccer AM this morning talking about his brief stay in Spain. He scored and smashed his nose in the process so had to go off and in the time he was off the opposition scored. When he came back on he asked the ref why his goal was disallowed and the ref said "You English, all you do is foul", then when he said something back to the ref he was sent off!

I can see why very few of our players ever go abroad if that's their treatment!

Now that's the catch ainnit?

I don't think your friend Mooney said something along the lines of , 'Oh I beg your pardon good sir, but I must insist you take that last statement back!'. In fact he probably went along the lines of what his surname seems to suggest.

Perhaps they don't go abroad because they aren't good enough? Saying they don't go because of the treatment one player received in one game doesn't necessarily mean anything IMO.

I agree he most certainly didn't say anything polite to the ref, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't either if my goals were disallowed due to my nationality. Mooney is far from 'my friend' either, I'd disallow all of his goals just for being him.


I think you'd be surprised at how big a factor nationality is. I also disagree with the 'good enough' claim, I hardly think Rooney plays in England because he isn't good enough to play for Malaga.

That's a weird argument. Doesn't make much sense...if you bring the best players into it. I could conversely argue Zidane never played in England therefore none of the clubs in England are good enough for Zidane.

It's not my arguement, it's what I_Ross was suggesting. I think it's ridiculous, hencemy Rooney-Malaga comment.

Well maybe they're not good enough could be replaced by they're not suited to.

Pennant sucks @$$ in Spain, yet he was considered average-above average in England. Sheva was God in Italy, yet he flopped miserably in England.

Santiago Munez needed asthma treatments and lots of gym work before he could even complete 90 minutes for Newcastle. He was so good in fact that they sold him to Madrid along with Gavin Harris.


Secondly, you claimed you would badmouth the ref if your goals were disallowed due to nationality....which is implying that the Spaniard never gets a goal disallowed in the La Liga. Not true.

The ref says (allegedly) "You English, all you do is foul!"...which means the goal was disallowed coz he fouled and not coz he was English. And considering the amount of English a Spaniard (or Spanish an Englishman) would know a, I can probably imagine that when he said, "You English", he meant "You Englishman".

Besides from your opinion on Mooney, I don't think he's the type whose jersey is pristine clean when he comes off the field.

Lastly, Owen and BEcks...two players who didn't have any problems with the refs in England.

Becks had problems wioth refs in Spain. I think the refs are the main reason to be honest, but not because they dislike a particular nationality. It's always why I don't think England will win the World Cup in my life time, we're allowed to get away with more in terms of physicality over here than we would elsewhere.

Exactly what I thought.
It's "you [or 'hey'] Englishman! all you do is foul". I can imagine it being said in a friendly way even.

Anybody know what the deal is with Juve's attendances? I was looking at some attendance figues and such and I noticed they have a lower average attendance than sha and Hull!? There's some commentary on FIFA10 that suggests the reason the fans don't go is because the stadium is horrible or something, but I just can't see that being the reason. Anyone know why? Just over 20k average is horrible for a regular CL team.

Their performance for one. Second, they're not playing at their old stadium. It's some temporary arrangement till the new one comes up.

Ah that makes sense. Though their poor attendance figures seem to go back a few years, even when they were in the SDA and winning titles.

Juventus aren't the "team" of Turin. That's Torino. Juve have more supporters in the south of Italy, I think they actually had more fans at Palermo-Juventus than Juventus-Palermo this season, or something like that.

The Olimpico in Turin is a small stadium and seats...prolly not more than 30k tops anyway. And, well, what Jack said. They've got more fans outside Turin than inside.

Oops? I'm a hungover fish, sorry Locke! Went out nightclubbing last night and only had time for a nap in my bowl before the game!

OOOOOOHHH!! Was the guy cute?

Sorry to disappoint you Jack, but I don't swim that way. You're mistaking me for dst.

Zidane and Enzo Francescoli are going to star in a new football-related reality show called Football Cracks... what the f___?

LOL, seriously, wtf?

and you guys complain about our forwards... see this before you talk again!

Safe to say I would even score there, and I've never played ANY organized football!

It annoys me when I see things like that. That guy probably has an easy life with the money he makes from football yet he can't even score that..

(No link, read it in the Daily Mail today)

The guy is an idiot. I think it's hilarious that he actually believes he's that good anyway. I doubt he would make my top 1,000 list. He played in a **** league and played International football at a time where all but about 10 countries were still at ametuer level. I think Jack could have scored 1,000 goals in the games Pele played!

I think he's just annoyed that an Argie at the age of 22 is better than he ever was. To say a player has to score 1,000 goals to be as good as him is stupid. Romario has done that anyway, while actually playing against opposition that play football.

I think Pele in Brazil was pretty much like Messi in Barca. It was such a freakishly good team. And you're just saying he's shite, since there's not a lot of videos available of him. But pundits don't just hype up a man for nothing.

Of course the fact that he's mostly mouthing crap doesn't help his case.

Nout to do with lack of videos. There's not an awful amount of videos of any pre-late 80s, but I'll still say Maradona or whoever else is great. It's the fact that he never proved his skills against anyone.

Some very average footballer could drop a few leagues, bang in the goals for fun year after year and then say he thinks he's the best ever because nobody scores at the rate he does. No different to what Pele did.

Kurt man... I hate Pele as much as the next guy... but he can't have been that bad... you've gone extremely biased here.

He can't have been anywhere near as good as people make out either. He is by far the most overrated sportsperson of all-time.

I love you Kurt. I don't always show it but I really do.

Anyway, I can actually think of quite a number of players who I seriously believe were better than Pele... Maradona, Messi, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Baggio, Van Basten, Bergkamp and Batistuta for starters.

Winning the world cup 3 times isn't proving your skills?



Funny how no one else ever has. Apart from Ibrahimovic.

Your view is extraordinary.

Mind you, I always considered Zidane totally over rated so my view was in the minority as well.

So I know how you feel.

Yeah, Pele's detractors, such as Kurt, see nothing but the absolute garbage the man comes out with and automatically, and understandably stigmatise him against it as a result.

Pele is not a smart cookie, he included Diouff in his top 100 players of all time ffs.

But he was a special player and there's good reasons it's him and Maradona who vie for best ever rather than Cruyff and Maradona, or Van Basten and Maradona.

I also don't think a cr@p league would throw up players like Jairzinho, Tostao, Garrincha etc. It just doesn't happen.

And what is the one thing they all have in common?

They're all football frickin legends. That's what they have in common.

That too. But theres another thing. I'll give you a hint... position.

Brazil has always been known for it's offensive players. I'll give you Carlos Alberto if you demand it.

Even now little has changed. Ronaldinho, Kaka, Robinho, Maicon.

It's the way the country's mindset is. As a kid learning to play football,if you're in a society worshipping it's attackers an attacker is what you want to be. Esp. since a large majority of Brazillian players hone their skills on the street and only later in an academy.

Exactly my point. And won't you agree that in a country with that sort of mindset, it will be easier for a striker to look far better than he really is than it would in, say, Serie A.

Agreed.





I've gone over it a few times on here. I've watched tape and whatnot to form an opinion of International football before the mid/late-70s. I'd say the majority was ametuer, the defending was totally embarassing. Obviously Brazil had to beat other decent countries, but there were so few. It was the same dozen teams reaching the last 4 everytime the competition was played and the rest of the games were pretty much blowouts. I'm not taking away the acheivment at all, I just think scoring goals was easy, even the top nations didn't have great defenses, so a team like Brazil whod id have good attacking players found it easy.

As for his club record, like I said, anyone could go play in a crap league and bang in 1,000 goals in a 25 year period. But the fact is, they don't want to, they have ambition to play in the top leagues. Now whether Pele was told he couldn't leave Brazil or not is irrelevant, the fact is he didn't/

I think Zidane is one of the best ever, but it's just an opinion, there's no fact when it comes to judging a player so while you may be in the minority, you're just as correct as we are really.

Well for one, all the players I've mentioned were proven at the world cup. All of them easily beat defences of other countries as well. So it's not a pan-Brazilian phenomenon.

Secondly, even if it was just Brazil, there would still be a bunch of strikers scoring buckets of goals by your logic. And yet only these people stand out. Not to mention some of their goals are known for being simply brilliant pieces of teamwork and skill. Pele's got a few awards for most beautiful goal scored as well.

That Guti no-look backheel which people are harping about..these blokes used to do it all the time.




Brazil vs Uruguay 1970.



Brazil vs Italy 1970..

In a time when the grounds were not smooth as silk, and boots and jerseys didn't have 1030138012380129329743 billion dollars of research. When footballers were not the medical royalty of today, it's even more appreciable I think.

The point is, Jack, that the defenses of those days were probably no better than what you'd see at any average club. You criticise Spanish defenses now, but even average sides now are better than some of the best now. It's understandable given the training they're allowed, but it's still the case in my opinion.

You guys should relax... and laugh at this guy!

That's just so awful.