Jack Sparrow
Apr 15 2010, 01:28 PM
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 15 2010, 06:25 PM)

The point is, Jack, that the defenses of those days were probably no better than what you'd see at any average club. You criticise Spanish defenses now, but even average sides now are better than some of the best now. It's understandable given the training they're allowed, but it's still the case in my opinion.
First of all, you're again guessing, when you cite 'probably'. Secondly, you can only beat the team in front of you. I doubt given the same constraint under which the old teams operated in those days (bad airlines, less medical assistance, no magic spray etc, sometimes no hot water)...your current teams would perform as well.
Do you think all those crunching tackles are gonna be in vogue when you know there's no benefit of physios and magic sprays to take care of.
And by the same yardstick are you also suggesting that the England World Cup is not worth the brass/silver/cr@p it's minted out of. Since at 'that' time the competition in general was crap. They should probably tear down Bobby Charlton's statue while they're at it, and erect one of Wes Brown or something. I'm sure he was more competent.

@dst: Cute. We should sign him. He'd sell jerseys.
kurtsimonw
Apr 15 2010, 01:43 PM
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Apr 15 2010, 01:28 PM)

And by the same yardstick are you also suggesting that the England World Cup is not worth the brass/silver/cr@p it's minted out of. Since at 'that' time the competition in general was crap. They should probably tear down Bobby Charlton's statue while they're at it, and erect one of Wes Brown or something.
Yes, I do think that we won the World Cup in an era of poor International football. Though in Englands defense our opponents were Mexico, France, Uruguay, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany. But it doesn't change the fact that defenses were poor. Hurst scored a hat-trick in a World Cup Final against one of the best Interntional defenses in the World. That would never happen now even if a very average country made the Final.
It's a Bobby Moore statue, and what did Wes Brown ever do?
Jack Sparrow
Apr 15 2010, 01:51 PM
Sorry. Bobby Moore. Shame on me.
But exactly. Wes Brown has done nothing..except play in a much more competitive era. Therefore he has to be greater than Moore, who played in a sub-standard time against sub-standard teams.
kurtsimonw
Apr 15 2010, 01:57 PM
Not really, my arguement was about strikers being able to score easily, not sure why you're dragging defenders into this.
Jack Sparrow
Apr 15 2010, 01:57 PM
Coz you said strikers score easily, because defenders were not as good then.
kurtsimonw
Apr 15 2010, 02:07 PM
Yes, but that doesn't autmatically mean all defenders now are better than all defenders then. It just means that players like Messi now would have no problem at all replicating what Pele did (nd much more).
dst
Apr 27 2010, 10:52 AM
Hey Kurt...
this guy too is making a fortune from football...
kurtsimonw
Apr 27 2010, 11:21 AM
That's horrible.

Malouda missed an open goal from 2 yards at the weekend as well, can't find a video though.
kurtsimonw
May 27 2010, 03:16 AM
So.. the ruling to destroy football forever has been passed.
Under the new financial fair play ruling teams have to make a profit after all debt payments and transfers activities have been completely.
So it basically just gives a huge advantage to the rich clubs as they can bend the rules, their owners can just donate money to their club to put them into profit. If teams fail the test, they aren't allowed into Europe (which is where alot of lesser teams make money to compete).
I personally don't care all that much, because European competition has been a joke for nearly 2 decades now. The problem is that I support a fan friendly club and as such we make a loss every year because we don't make all that much from ticket prices, but spend big on transfers. So basically, to make Europe, we have to charge silly prices for tickets?
**** off Platini, you cancer.
Jack Sparrow
May 27 2010, 04:39 AM
Erm no...the owners can't donate money....I've obviously read a different article then.
kurtsimonw
May 27 2010, 05:11 AM
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 27 2010, 04:39 AM)

Erm no...the owners can't donate money....I've obviously read a different article then.

No, you probably didn't, that was just an assumption I made.
They can't stop Citeh being sponsered by one of their owners other companies though for a ridiculous sponsorship deal, so the stupid rich teams will still be fine.
It's just Platini's way of keeping the big names where they are. CL teams earn more and can therefore spend more and can then make it back to the CL and repeat.
It is in conspiracy, even Scudamore had a slip of the tongue a few years back by saying having the same 4 teams make the CL every year was financially perfect for the EPL.
Fishdoll
May 27 2010, 05:17 AM
Actually Kurt, clubs like United, Real, and Liverpool may end up having a real problem now, as I understand it. I'd need to read the technical details to be sure tho. All those clubs have massive debts - United is at the point where they have to go far in the CL just to cover debt payments and even that wasn't quite enough and they sold their best player last year. Arsenal's got capital debt (they're paying off the construction of their stadium) which is a little different than owing money to banks because you got a loan to buy players (which Real did this past year).
When I'm awake and have time, I'll look at the details.
kurtsimonw
May 27 2010, 05:21 AM
I thought that at first, but so long as they can pay their interest payments they're fine. The article I read was pretty much only talking about EPL clubs, but said only Chelsea of the big 4 have anything to worry about, apparently Uniteds turnover is more than enough to pay off their interest payments.
Admittedly I've only read 2 articles on it, so I will have to have a good look into it. On first impression it looks like disaster.
Fishdoll
May 27 2010, 05:22 AM
I'll take a look when I'm more awake.
Jack Sparrow
May 27 2010, 07:03 AM
This is what I read:
QUOTE
Three-quarters of the Premier League's clubs will need to reduce significantly their spending on players' wages if they are to qualify for European competitions after Uefa's "financial fair play" rules are introduced tomorrow. The European governing body's executive committee is set to approve the regulations, which will require clubs to break even, not make persistent losses, from 2012-13.
In 2008-09, the most recent year for which the Premier League's 20 clubs' accounts are published, 14 made substantial losses. One other, Blackburn Rovers, made a £3.6m profit but were subsidised with a £5m loan from the club's owners, which will no longer be permitted.
Most clubs in the Premier League are funded by owners, most spectacularly at Chelsea and Manchester City, where Roman Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour subsidised losses of £47m and £93m respectively. Owners will, according to the rules, be permitted to invest in clubs, via permanent shares rather than repayable loans, to build solid infrastructure such as training grounds or youth development facilities, but not overspending on wages or transfers.
Uefa has taken more than three years to develop the rules since the organisation's president, Michel Platini, warned of the "danger to football" posed by debt, overspending and "rampant commercialism". They will be phased in, with club owners allowed to subsidise €45m (£38m) losses over the three years from 2012-13, reducing to €30m in total over the next three years.
Platini has described the need to staunch overspending as "a question of survival for our sport". In the Premier League, besides Chelsea and City, Aston Villa, subsidised by the club's owner, Randy Lerner, lost £46m in 2008-09, while Sunderland lost £26m. Liverpool lost £55m, principally because they had to pay £40m interest on £250m borrowed from banks. Manchester United made a profit only because of the £81m sale of Cristiano Ronaldo to Real Madrid; in previous years since the Glazer family took over what was then the world's most profitable club and ladled huge debts on to it, United have sustained losses.
The Premier League had argued that clubs should be allowed to be continually subsidised by owners, but was overruled, as Uefa insisted it wanted to steer clubs across Europe to a more sustainable existence. Yesterday a Premier League spokesman acknowledged the clubs will have to rein in their spending in order to comply.
"The vast majority of what is being proposed is common sense, and has already [been], or is about to be, incorporated into Premier League rules," a spokesman said. "If the regulations are introduced as reported, we envisage a difficult period of adjustment for our member clubs who play, or aspire to play, in European competitions."
Source: Guardian Online (guardian.co.uk)
Linkman
May 27 2010, 10:30 AM
I'm no economist, but I think in the long term, such a reduction shouldn't have such a big impact on football as a whole. Since teams will be forced to go without debt (and of course, owner investment should be also regulated), what will happen is that things will remain as they are, but player prices and wages will be reduced considerably. If today a decent player can be worth 15-20 million euros, we will probably see similar players sold at 5 mil. Clubs will continue to sell players (in order to maintain their finances), but the buyers will no longer be up for exorbitant Madridesque prices.
kurtsimonw
May 27 2010, 07:46 PM
It just goes back to what I said in the UEFA Cup thread. It's not a fans game anymore. Platini seems to be intent on making sure it's a game for the rich.
Fishdoll
May 27 2010, 07:51 PM
how do you get from clubs being forced (albeit gradually) to live within their means to compete in europe to Platini making sure it's a game for the rich?
servbot
May 27 2010, 08:13 PM
Has UEFA ever considered just having a straight salary cap for squads? It seems that would be the most simple and fair solution.
kurtsimonw
May 28 2010, 02:31 AM
QUOTE (Fishdoll @ May 27 2010, 07:51 PM)

how do you get from clubs being forced (albeit gradually) to live within their means to compete in europe to Platini making sure it's a game for the rich?
Because of its start point.
If you can only spend what you earn, where do you think that puts every club except for United, Cheslea, etc? They have CL football which gives them a head start on revenue, they also have a much, much bigger fan base which ultimately = more £££.
How can other teams compete? Literally the only thing they can do is push up ticket prices, it's really the only choice they have. People nowadays simply can not afford it.
He could have easily introduced a spending cap which would solve an awful lot of problems, including teams not needing to push up prices. But this is Platini we're talking about.
Dracoris
May 28 2010, 02:48 AM
I think a salary cap would've been the best option. That way you can't just buy 8 WC players b/c they will all want WC salaries, which the cap would not allow. So it indirectly causes the transfer prices to go down because teams will only have access to one Ronaldo type player. Demand for players like that goes down because of the inability to buy them, Supply would stay the same (or go down because some players who make that kind of money now would not make that kind of money and might not be considered WC anymore) and thus this means price will go down as well.
Perhaps what Platini has organized will work well also, only time will really tell.
Fishdoll
May 28 2010, 03:03 AM
You really do seem to have it in for Platini, Kurt.

I think a cap would've been a good idea but I think the EU would've quashed it (labor rules). Even if the MUs and Scousers of this world have big fanbases, they also have crushing debts so that they must go far into the CL to make their loan payments especially if bailouts are now not going to be allowed to the extent that they have been (Chelsea's really going to have an issue). Inert are really going to be hosed.
kurtsimonw
May 28 2010, 03:36 AM
Yeah, a salary cap wouldn't be accepted. I don't think it's something Platini would want either, that's the impression I get from him regarding his politics.
I wouldn't say I have it in for Platini, I just have zero time for FIFA/UEFA. It just so happens I don't agree with an awful lot he wants to do.
Jack Sparrow
May 28 2010, 04:25 AM
I think even if the big clubs have 100% more revenue...they also have 100% more debts and wages to pay.
kurtsimonw
May 28 2010, 04:57 AM
I think their revenue massively outweighs the debs they have to pay.
You do realise most teams in the EPL don't even make a profit BEFORE transfers? Whereas United and Chelsea have huge markets to sell into. Alot of clubs will literally have to sell every year just to break even. The EPL, at least, is going to become a CL monopoly, but one even more difficult to break into than usual.
Fishdoll
May 28 2010, 11:41 AM
Actually, Kurt, I've had a look at United's financial statements. They wouldn't have made a profit at all last season had they not sold Cristiano Ronaldo.
kurtsimonw
May 29 2010, 07:24 PM
So France will host Euro 2016.
Didn't take Platini long, did it.
Portman
May 29 2010, 07:50 PM

Who would have thought...
kurtsimonw
Jul 17 2010, 05:18 PM
Capello IndexI hope this isn't really something he created, because some of the ratings are terrible. I had a look at the England team for the World Cup and Defoe, Wright-Phillips and Gerrard were the top 3.

=============================================================================
Best goals from around the World 09-10And seeing as I never see it in any amazing goal compilations or anything
Ashley Young vs West Ham, most underrated goal from last season by a mile!
Fishdoll
Jul 17 2010, 06:53 PM
I took a look at the Capello index thingy. Not sure what to make of it just yet. The statisticians at Bocconi did a lot of calculating of different kinds of things.
(X-Off!!!!! D'you know anything about it?)
kurtsimonw
Jul 19 2010, 04:02 PM
So Blatter is a liar? Who knew.

QUOTE
Goal-line technology will not be on the agenda when football's law-makers meet in Wales later this week, contrary to indications by FIFA president Sepp Blatter.
The technical sub-committee of the International Football Association Board (IFAB) will meet in Cardiff on Wednesday, but as planned back in May, there will only be one item on the agenda and that will be the continuing experiment with additional assistant referees.
FIFA president Sepp Blatter announced during the World Cup finals that goal-line technology had to be discussed once again at the 'first opportunity' and indicated that would take place this month.
How can that not be a goal? Frank Lampard's effort for England against Germany at the World Cup was ruled out
However, it is not now expected to be on the agenda until a more formal meeting in October.
A FIFA spokesman said: 'The meeting this week is purely to ratify any requests that have come forward over the implementation of the assistant referees experiment, which was used last year in the Europa League.
'The first formal meeting where that discussion [goal-line technology] could take place is in October.'
Wednesday's meeting will instead concentrate on the member associations who have taken up the opportunity to use additional assistant referees after IFAB agreed in May to launch a two-year experiment to test the effectiveness of the initiative.
IFAB, which comprises representatives from FIFA and the four home nations, rejected the notion of goal-line technology in March on the grounds of cost and the possible disruption it would bring.
However, calls for the introduction of technology intensified after England's Frank Lampard was denied what would have been an equaliser in the World Cup second round clash with Germany when his shot rebounded off the underside of the crossbar and dropped over the line, but unseen by the match officials and was not given.
Mexico too suffered as they were dumped out of the competition by Argentina with the help of a blatantly offside Carlos Tevez goal.
Speaking in Johannesburg last month, Blatter said: 'It is obvious that after the experience so far in this World Cup, it would be a nonsense to not re-open the file of technology at the business meeting of the International FA Board in July.'
Sepp Blatter, ruining football since 1998.
Fishdoll
Jul 19 2010, 04:05 PM
He said during the world cup that it wouldn't be on the agenda til the fall meeting, Kurt.
kurtsimonw
Jul 19 2010, 04:10 PM
In an interview with Sky Sports he said it will be talked about in Wales, pointing out it'd be better to sort it out before the new season. Ban the loon from British soil.
Fishdoll
Jul 19 2010, 04:15 PM
We get that you hate him, Kurt. Really.
kurtsimonw
Jul 19 2010, 04:21 PM
It's not about hating him, it's about him making little (or no, in this case) attempt to improve the game of football.
Fishdoll
Jul 23 2010, 12:23 PM
So, there's a story in L'equipe this morning about the French NT and new coach Laurent Blanc. France play a friendly against Norway on August 11 and Blanc has said he's not likely to call up ANY of the guys who went to South Africa. (Serves them all right).
nuh
Jul 23 2010, 01:37 PM
other than frey and flamini whose left
Fishdoll
Jul 23 2010, 01:46 PM
Mexes. Benzema.
X-Offender
Jul 23 2010, 01:58 PM
Yeah, Blanc should start calling Flamini back in the NT. Perhaps that will make him come to senses and stop making idiotic fouls every 5 seconds.
Zed.D
Jul 23 2010, 03:26 PM
QUOTE (Fishdoll @ Jul 23 2010, 03:53 PM)

So, there's a story in L'equipe this morning about the French NT and new coach Laurent Blanc. France play a friendly against Norway on August 11 and Blanc has said he's not likely to call up ANY of the guys who went to South Africa. (Serves them all right).
I like Blanc but that's ridiculous. Toulalan is one I'd definitely call up. I'm still not sure if Lloris is what he is made out to be, but I wouldn't leave him out for disciplinary reasons because I don't think he has done anything wrong (was one of the few who wanted to train IINM). same for Diaby.
kurtsimonw
Jul 23 2010, 04:42 PM
I hardly think the players will care about missing a friendly. If he continues not to select them, then Blanc will be out of a job before Euro 2012.
kurtsimonw
Aug 16 2010, 03:57 PM
QUOTE
Sepp Blatter says Fifa is considering scrapping draws at the group stage of future World Cup finals by introducing penalty shoot-outs after 90 minutes.
Blatter, president of world football's governing body, is known for voicing radical ideas on changing the game.
He wants to put an end to defence-minded teams playing to get a draw.
"If there is no winner at the end of 90 minutes of play, we would proceed directly to penalty kicks," he told German magazine Focus.
"We are considering doing away with draws in the first round... and also ending extra-time play."
Another possibility, according to Blatter, would be to revive the "golden goal".
Under that rule if a match is a draw after normal time then the first team to score a goal in extra-time is the winner.
It was used in the 1998 competition in France but was abandoned four years later when the finals were held in Japan and South Korea.
Blatter feels the changes could make the tournament more interesting, insisting teams "above all do not want to lose - that makes for a boring game".
The next World Cup will be held in Brazil in 2014.
Blatter also reiterated Fifa's efforts to examine goal-line technology, which will be discussed at October's International Football Association Board meeting.
"As soon as we have a safe, fast and uncomplicated goal indicator, we will use it," he said.
BBC SportHmmm.
This 'no draws' thing sounds very American and I don't like it. It'd also make for very boring football with bad teams playing a 10-0-0 formation and trying to win it in a shootout.
I think having a shootout after every group game (regardless of the result) to be used as a tie-breaker instead of goal-difference if teams finish on the same points would be okay. Big no to Golden Goal.
Dracoris
Aug 16 2010, 04:18 PM
Having a shootout for the fun of it after every game would just be weird. I'd rather they just leave it alone.
Locke Lamora
Aug 16 2010, 04:36 PM
Damn I hate this guy. The whole world is shouting for video tech to be implemented, and in order to make it look like he's actually doing anything useful at all he dabbles around with stuff like this.
How many years left before we're rid of him?
Milan Are Brilliant
Aug 16 2010, 04:52 PM
Why would introducing penalties make any difference?! So a team like North Korea would put 11 men on their goal line and wait for 90 minutes hoping they could win on penalties!
The only way to guarantee more action and attacking displays would be to like Rugby, if a team puts say a difference of 3 goals past their opposition they get a bonus point + the usual 3 points they'd normally pick up.
servbot
Aug 16 2010, 08:33 PM
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Aug 16 2010, 09:57 AM)

Hmmm.
This 'no draws' thing sounds very American and I don't like it. It'd also make for very boring football with bad teams playing a 10-0-0 formation and trying to win it in a shootout.
I think having a shootout after every group game (regardless of the result) to be used as a tie-breaker instead of goal-difference if teams finish on the same points would be okay. Big no to Golden Goal.
I hate the idea of making any changes to the group stage. Getting a point for a draw is just fine.
I think the Golden Goal in the knockout rounds is great though. As if the stakes in extra time weren't high enough, it just ups the ante more and would be more exciting for fans. What could be more exciting than a game ending and a team progressing/being eliminated with a goal, rather than, "OK we scored, now let's play defense/stall/fake injury/play in the corner for the last 10 minutes of extra time".
agenth
Aug 16 2010, 09:06 PM
QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Aug 16 2010, 05:52 PM)

Why would introducing penalties make any difference?! So a team like North Korea would put 11 men on their goal line and wait for 90 minutes hoping they could win on penalties!
The only way to guarantee more action and attacking displays would be to like Rugby, if a team puts say a difference of 3 goals past their opposition they get a bonus point + the usual 3 points they'd normally pick up.
come on... if you were threatened with jail or boot camp, wouldn't you try to defend your goal with your life, too?
kurtsimonw
Aug 17 2010, 12:01 AM
QUOTE (servbot @ Aug 16 2010, 08:33 PM)

I think the Golden Goal in the knockout rounds is great though.
You say that now, but every football fan in the US went on for ages about the bad decisions that went against you in the WC. They ultimately didn't even mean anything either, imagine being knocked out on a golden goal that shouldn't have counted? It just gives the referee's more chance of costing a team the game.
The more the game is taken out of the refs hands, the better.
Fishdoll
Aug 17 2010, 12:36 AM
As regards Blatter's idea....I can hear the buses parking from here.
MizNelson
Aug 17 2010, 12:57 AM
If that rule is implemented, it'll kill off soccer in this country once and for all.
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