Yes Ash, I think I tend to forget I'm on an internet forum ... And I wasn't directing that at you, I was just pissed at some of what was written.

My point was that the issue Galliani raised is a pure fact, and it is not just affecting football in Italy, but several other sectors in Italy. To amplify it, Italian clubs can not compete with their counterparts in Europe .. This is a reality that no one is taking into account. It is not rocket science, Galliani has been saying this for the past four years. Yet it is being discounted here and in most cases marginalized.

My point is, take a look at this random post here :



This is exactly what I mean by 'easy to sit behind a computer, etc etc'

I am not implying anything ... I just wish people would either stick to rationality or remain irrational throughout their argument.


As for the downfall, yes it is evident, but that is only normal because it is an issue that is affecting all of Italy.

And some assume that selling the club would be beneficial to the club ... But if you consider the situation, as Galliani described it, no one seems keen to invest in Italian clubs. Unlike England, where the income is magnified to that in Italy. But then again, this is an internet forum and you totally have a point in that

This is ridiculous. We're talking about Europe? We cannot even compete in Italy for God's sake, is that because Spanish clubs have it easier!????? Galliani is the only representative of any Italian club that speaks about this and he does it with ever single chance! Don't you wonder why this happens?

oh come on, the only ones flirting are galliani and silvio, they get hard just thinking of all that money. they've been quoted several times saying they consider/considred selling him.

hehe i've seen a lil too much of that lately.

at the end of the day and this is universally true in business, you cant expect to grow or even retain your level of prominance by sitting on ur ***. you just cant allow for things to get stangnet.

when we had money before and immediately after athens we had money to spend, the year after as well, but then we find ways to splurge on r20 the real problem is POOOR MANAGMENT, just look the past 6 years players and our transfers (in and out). the only smart moves have been ones driven by leo.

dst, you already know the truth of the matter.

Ok Blue ...

Lets stick to rational here, you have stated several points which (I assume) bother you and probably a lot of others.

Okay, let it be noted that Silvio has gained from Milan over the years, but not as much financially as politically. Why not financially ? Because football in Italy is kinda like pouring water into a pierced bucket. Cash, to some extent, is not generated at the same rate as it used to. Football is a business and it is categorized under entertainment. But again, in Italy it is not as BIG an industry as say England or Spain, where their bottom line is significantly better. Milan, as a club is profitable. But it is not generating cash at the end of the year, hence Silvio comes in (most likely through Fininvest) and injects more cash to keep the club running. This cycle has been going on for sometime now in order to keep Milan as a European giant.

Why doesn't Silvio sell the club ? I have no idea other than his affection towards it. An Arab, Russian, Persian .. They are better off buying into an EPL club than an Italian. (In fact, I read this editorial once about Sheikh Mansour's acquisition of City, he was interested in Roma, but after doing a feasibility study they backed off). As things stand Milan really is his club, and there is very little you or I could do protesting against it. He did after all, take Milan through several cycles in which the trophy cabinet at Via Turati bears the fruits of his success as President.

Were some of Milan's purchases bad ? Yes, some of them were, over the span of 22 years. But most of them proved to be fruitful. It is not a matter of, Milan sell Sheva for 30MM, hence 30MM is going to be spent on a replacement. 30MM has to be filtered, and divided into expenses and dues .. Whatever is left over, is (in a simplified scenario) used to finance the purchase of player X. Hence, it is not as simple as a,b,c ... It incorporates a lot of elements, that we are not exposed to.

I feel your sorrow, I really do ... As a fan, you want to see Milan on top of the pile, as do every single one of us in here ... You say Paolo could have been sold 10-15 years ago !? 10-15 years ago my friend, Serie A was the top league in Europe. It was kinda like what the EPL is today, much more lucrative in all aspects. And Paolo was targeted by Madrid during those times, Milan didn't budge, on the contrary Milan where in a better position financially, as was the whole league at the time, but that was then.

Today, Milan has to sell Kaka' ... It is inevitable. The quoted 70MM pounds is a mind boggling number, which could be put towards funding the club in all its aspects. My reasoning for it that Kaka' is 27 now ... He roughly has two more years left in him - as his attributes depend on speed & agility - and from then on he wont be worth 70MM. So, considering this, the management has been shrewd in the timing of the sale. Considering Milan needs the money to build a competitive team.

As for Carlo, he is gone now. Fillipo's sig describes this scenario pretty well, 'We can't behave like crocodiles and cry over spilled milk and broken eggs'. I consider Carlo to be one of the best managers that have trained Milan, and I'm saddened by his departure as he brought the team a lot of success when he took the reins. And cheer up, Leo is a rookie coach, but so were Sacchi & Capello.

Why does it happen ?

An American would be a more appropriate example don't you think

Well, I was thinking of the Shah at the time

He owned a club or something?

AC Bushehr ?

LOL I really don't know!

I agree wholeheartedly.

I love his father .

Silvio, does not care for the club as he did before. The only thing that he is thinking now are money! I am sad that KaKa is leaving, but I am really mad that after we sell him, we will not buy anyone even half good as KaKa. I wish we buy Tevez and Ronnie gets to his shape when he played for Barca and with Pato, It'll be great!

"Milan cannot lose €70 million every year"

Not sure I understand this comment from Galiani. Is he saying that since we're making a huge loss every year, we need to sell Kaka'? If so, if we're continually making this loss, does that mean we'll have to sell another top player to counter this loss? Not good.

^^ because were surely going to recover by selling our stars, great way promote the club and generate more revenue.

I think it's bad translation. he meant Milan cannot resist mega offers in each transfer window i.e. we finally have to sell and cash in that money.

----



Ambro to be the next captain.

Super Ambro!

Does Silvio live in cloud cuckoo land or what?


Deja vu?

Do we have to go through all this every time this damned transfer window opens?

http://www.sportmediaset.it/mercato/artico...ml?refresh_cens

I'll try to translate...

Capelli, leader of Curva Sud, showed display of his phone, where is call that was 15 minutes ago and he said: "I spoke with Kaka for 5 minutes. He said me again that he not want to go away, but he is very sad because he is not "not for sale" anymore - club don't want him and ready to sell".



Damn....I hate Berlu and bold idiot Galliani....

This story also appeared on R&B and I think it's a load of crap. If Kaka wouldn't speak publicly about this whole mess before, no way he's going to suddenly spill his guts to some ultras member. And if he felt betrayed, he'd have told B&G to go to hell and jumped aboard the S.S. Madrid in the blink of an eye. It would be like staying at your job even though your boss has made it more than clear that he'd like you fired.

This "story" was reported on Mediaset, which probably means that Berlu wants to make Kaka the bad guy while making himself look like a martyr.

Everyone knows he wants to stay at Milan. how many times does he have to say that?

The club need the money so he has to accept this transfer. it surely won't be the end of the world in Madrid for him but staying at Milan is obviously his first priority.

Silvio's recent interview has given me a slight hope that he might remain. we'll see what happens on Monday but I think he's 80% Madrid's.

the man city thing was a joke and an exaggeration, but think of how that whole illusion of "100M for kaka" (it was actually 50M) turned into the catalyst to sell him to real madrid. Berlu has wanted to sell kaka during this summer since at least the january transfer window.

i hope milan sell seedorf and pirlo .. ( follow ancellotti ) ,.... and i hope pato stays ... i hope the new coach leonardo is gd for milan and especialy ronaldinho and i hope kaka stay ( it's too far because of money needed ... for the fuc**** president .... selling a young player and one of the best... and leaving old bitches like seedorf and pirlo ... heh .... and kalazde on the denfence ... do u (berluscuni) think that kaladze is a gd denfender ... that realy sucks ... and nesta is old and needs a lot get to his best... heh ... i hope milan play tiago silva ... and senderos ... and get denfenders... )

You have very good points my friend.

Most of it one cannot deny and are very true in our club's case, however:

***note: sorry for grammar and spelling mistakes


I just have a few comment to make. I don't understand how morratti can keep Inter at the top and continually support the club while Milan cannot do so. I thought Silvio was richer, smarter in the business sense and 10x the owner that Morratti is, however with his comments these days I really doubt this.


Bottom line R7 is that we have to face the music. Just like italian football has changed, Milan has changed. From the players to the owner. We used to be a top class club with a top class owner, top class management and top class players. Now we are about the same level as fiorentina, therefore things have to be changed in all sectors.

Eventhough, you feel that it is unfair to scrutinize Silvio like this because of all he has done, you have to understand that there comes a time like the coach, the owner has to go. If Kaka is sold and we do not sign player(s) to cover his calibre, I believe it will be silvio's last year. Fans and club supporters can no longer stand for the bs he has been spewing out for these last few years. Yes it is a business, but football also must be maintained in equal harmony. When we have Kaka, there is no need to go out and spend 21 million on Ronaldinho. He could have spent the money on purchasing a defender who could have been great by now.

Furthermore,

Yes it is his club, however, however this is not a mediaset or finnivest, its a football club. The Club income depends on ticket sales and product sales in which the footballing aspect must equal the business aspect in order for healthy revenue to occur. The customers right now feel the footballing aspect has declined over the years tremendously and with this sale another huge unfixable blow has occured.


I listed in my previous posts several mistakes the board and Silvio have done which i'm sure are the reason for the debt to have occured. The 60 million is from us not making the proper moves in the market to insure we keep CL football every season. If we couldn't do that, then we had to fire the coach and bring in change because it was clear we as a team could no longer compete with others for the championship. Right now he has made this choice, however its a little too late. We changed our coach. We will not invest as he feels the club is in a good position to compete. He has become dillusional and has lost his ways, that is why I call for change. Also there is an arab willing to buy this club, however Silvio is reluctant to sell.


What i'm trying to say R7 is this: People need to be held accountable for their mistakes. No one is bigger than this club and no one owns this club. Silvio runs this club, however he does not own the city of milan or its football team. We can force him out, there is no doubt about that. However, there are many like you who feel he can turn this around and that is why he is still in charge but that number is getting lower by the day. I enjoy your optimism, but just like us being linked to CR7, your optimism is nothing but fantasy. At the rate we are going, we will drop far from Juve and Inter and then changing club management may be a little too late.

Pics of Tiffosi protesting against sale of Kaka
click

God bless you.

OK now Kaka's sale would not be the end of the world but this... this is serious! He has to be kidding!!

Please someone defend him for this too, I beg you to do it!

Just found some interesting statistics regarding Kaka's true value to Milan:

This season Kaka' didn't play in 13 official matches for Milan (8 Serie A, 5 UEFA Cup). So these are the statistics from those matches:
- 4 wins (2 in Serie A, 2 in UEFA Cup)
- 3 draws (all in UEFA CUP, two against Werder!)
- 6 defeats (all in Serie A)

Now when we take a look at he table, with Kaka' in squad Milan played 30 games and won 20 matches, draw 8 times and lost only 2 matches; resulting with - 68 points.

Milan's final score in Serie A this season is: 38 matches played, 22 wins, 8 draws and 8 defeats(!) - which is equal to: 74 points.

Conclusion is that Milan has won only six points in eight games Kaka' didn't play in, and that talks how much he means to this team

No Kaka no Milan.

Wow. He really is the heart of Milan now Paolo has gone.



Well, there is no Emerson now...

Just joking, Silvio is in turmoil after commiting adultery with a teenager. What an ***.

it's simple silvio and fester lower our expectations regarding the transfer market so low that we scrounge and scrap and the slightest transfer move is hailed. he isnt dumb, how can we rely on an injured nesta and kalamity? then again he wasnt very astute in the first place in relying on them for the past season either (especially kakha). he just simply doesnt give a fck, he's priorities are to runt he country and make money, then again he wasnt always like that cuz he has been prime minister before and he dint allow that to effect the club that much. just this time around he doesnt really care that much about the club as he's allowed it to go in the shitter and just laughs and jokes about it.

Thank you for those numbers. They truly speak for themselves. If Kaka leaves, we'll be just about a Roma level club. Only without the youth and enthusiasm.

This was quoted in Sky Sports. I've learned not to put anything past Berlu in the absurdity department, but how do we know these quotes weren't simply made up?

And these stats are from his worst season ever!

Thanks a lot. I wanted to make a similar post but I was too lazy to go look for the stats.

He actually came out and said them in an interview.

kaladze ??? heh .... and nesta needs a lot to return to his best ... i hope milan will have a better denfence next season than this one ...

The old generation (of the midfield) consists of Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Ambrosini and Kaka. it can hardly be said we have cleared out the old generation by selling only Kaka, the youngest and arguably the best of them all. as of now, I don't think we're starting a new era at all. we're taking a step backwards. (unless a new midfielder that plays in the same position as Kaka comes).

Other than that, I personally agree that if we had to choose between selling Pato or Kaka, it'd better be Kaka.

Yea, no doubt in my mind that Pato would be the one that should stay. Interesting thoughts about Cassano, last season he was probably one of the best players in serie a, and he's obviously just hitting his peak. He doesn't seem as insane as he used to, but it would be up to Leonardo to decide wether or not he would be acceptable in the squad.

I am one of those who believe in Cassano's greatness as a footballer, but his attitude... can Leonardo deal with it? wouldn't it unsettle the locker room? (he may not be at his most insane anymore but he's still pretty insane!)

I love Economics!

There is only one R7....

@R7
Even though you do bring up some great points that I would agree with if circumstances were different, at some point you have to admit that our management have lately made some massive mistakes that should have not been done.

I agree with you about the money issue and the recession if this was just coming up these past 2 seasons, but Milan have been in dire need to get quality players for 4 years now, yet the management have been happy to rest on their laurels and do nothing but point to the trophy cabinet.

Our management was once the most ambitious, driven and cunning, now they've become complaicent, slow (when it comes to competing in the market of today), and just plain uninterested (Berlusconi). Milan has always been mainly a political tool for Berlu, he used it as a platform to jump start his political carreer, and has continued to use it when he needed a boost. Personally I had no problem with that, he made Milan great because of this. But now that he's gotten all that he can out of it, he's let Milan fend for itself, and now adays no football club can manage to do that. He only gets involved with Milan issues when there is a photo op up for grabs, that's when he shows his face and starts making all those self rightous statements...

Again if this sudden lack of ability to invest funds is just recession caused then how can you explain the fact that Milan have not made any worth while transfers since Nesta? That's a long time ago, we have not managed to remain competitve since 2004 mainly because of this. So don't tell me that the lack of investment in the club is because of this. It's just not a solid argument when you look at the entire picture and not just a small part of it.

Another point about our management. They have wasted money on transfers been forced to pay higher fees for players that are not worth those ammounts, made some horrible blunders (Yoann). And now they're turning Milan into a selling club, something they always swore they would never do.

You know they keep talking about how Milan is a family and all that, but I did not see Galliani speaking out against those Ultras who ruined Maldini's last home game, I also see them pushing Kaka out against his will for money.

At some point you just can't keep defending these people. Berlu and Galliani are who they are not because they're honest to God men. Berlu certainly isn't, and like I've said Berlusconi has always had something to gain out of Milan, so we can put him on that pedastal all we want but him spending all that cash to begin with didn't come just out of love for the club...

Agree with everything, perfect post.

Thank God.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I am not saying I don't believe he is going because of that either...

Wow, some dweeb actually had a Madrid shirt made up with his name? Reminds me of the schmuck who was pictured wearing a C. Ronaldo Man City jersey in the stands during a game over a month ago.

You definitely don't see that out here; it'd be like putting Tim Duncan on a Lakers jersey.