I had to do something, han! Fishdoll was out of popcorn and had to nip into the kitchen to make more!

You can look back over it as many times as you want, Gattuso was marking Gerrard. For the penalty he let Gerrard beat him, get into the box and then he went down. For the header, he just drifted away from him and Rino never followed.


I'm not saying people would hire me. However, If I had been a good player, then maybe they would. Carlo was bascially gifted ajob due to his playing career. If he was a naff player, there is no way he would ever have got any of the jobs he has.



Ambro played 13 times in the 2003 CL campaign. I wouldn't say he 'hardly got a look in'.

As a sub or starter?

I have no idea, I aint a stst book, I just have a book that says he made 13 appearances. Dunno whether it was sub/start, doesn't say.

I'm checking through the 2003 CL run and during the first group stage Ambro made 2 starts, one being against Bayern and the other against Lens which we lost because we were playing the second string, ie. Ambro starting Against Bayern Ambro started because Carlo went his usual cowardly defensive route and started with both Ambro and Rino in midfield, instad of the usual Seedorf, Pirlo, Rino starting midfield.

He made another 2 starts in the second group stage

Another 1 in the quarters against Ajax

He didn't start in either the final or the 2 semi legs against Inter

So if you count that's 5

Not as many as I'd have thought. But even still, it doesn't mean Rino is a better player. Like I said before, unless the coach that picking the team is 100% perfect, then you can't really say he's better just because he plays more.

I think the fact that we played great football and won it that year proves that Carlo was right in his choices.

He used Ambro mostly in the away ties where he would be more precautious and it worked back then.

So when he wanted to be more defensive, and solid, he used Ambro. That's hardly an insult to his defensive abilities then. We all know he's better going forward than Rino anyway.

he even said that he was considering leaving milan cuz of sitting on the bench too much under carlo the interview is posted on the ambrosini thread

not only is/was he a bench boy for milan he hardly gets called up for italy too surely you can't say that every italy manager got that wrong too

I'll just answer this by repeating what I said in a previous thread. Pato wasn't called up for the squad against Brazil, Fabiano was. Why didn't we sell Pato and sign Fabiano, surely he's a better player, since he's been called up and Pato hasn't.

Pato only wasn't called up for the next set of internationals, he was with Brazial for the Confederations Cup and the previous international matches.

And Brazil really don't count as they need a box player in attack not another free roaming supporting striker, so Fabiano is the better decision for the attack.

Kaka wasn't even with us in our '03 win. I'm assuming you meant '07.

I meant 07

oh sorry all of 20 minutes he played in that campaign.

i love how all you can dig out is that ambro scores more than gattuso, good for him 4-5 goals more a season obviously that makes him a far more effective because thats how we judge players.

It's no more stupid than basing a players ability on how many appearances a player makes.

why is that? obviously a player who's inferior to another would play less than the later over the course of, oh lets say a whole decade?!?! time is the great equaliser.

of course if ambro scored 10-15 goals EVERY despite other frailities i would rate him higher but he only has around 15 more goals in his career with milan than gattuso, ove the course of 15 years here! ambrosini scroing more than gattuso is hardly a factor when you look at the whole picture, it's because he's scored mroe in recent years and it's effected ur judgement.

Its not stupid, it means he's good enough to be a regular starter in the team he plays for, Ambro will only ever be that if he moves to a second rate club...

Maybe Villa can take him off our hands

Exactly, its only these past 2 seasons that Ambro has scored a lot, he got 7 last season and something like 4 the one before that.

When you look at all the seasons he's played he usually only scored 1-3 goals a season, 3 being on a rare season

You only have to look at Ole Solskjaer to see this isn't true. Alot of United strikers over the years started more/appearaed in more games than him, due to his injuries/being sub alot, yet his scoring record was better than most.

You're comparing a striker with a defensive midfielder, to me this is a total different thing as Ole had the killer instinct, he could score at any time on the pitch even if he's just on there for 5 minutes and SAF always knew this.

While Ambro is a different case. On most occasions the coach had either him or Rino to choose who to start in the DM position and Rino always got the nod, this is a decision based on who will help the team more, not just on putting the player on at the right time to grab a goal, like one would do with Pippo for example.

ya han you just reminded me of something, during carlos "magnus defensus" era when we always played with 1 striker and emerson would come on as an attacking sub, ambro was very often used as a cf forward late in games.

Liar!! That was just one game.

Fishdoll +1 cookie to Hab for the naming of the Magnus Defensus Era.

Ole Solskjaer can be compared to inzaghi not ambrosini ambrosini was always a sub until 2 years ago

i was gonna name difesa magnifica, but latin always sounds more scientific

Kurt, why do you bother, just give up you can't win. Your wasting your time

+ 1 to kurt for expressing his opinions and sticking to his guns well done mate theres alot of bottle down there

It's nothing to do with winning or losing really and wasting my time on what?

So has rino really been playing for us since 1999? What made us buy him for those of you who have been around that era. He must have been really young.

21sh i guess

Rino pulled up just before the end of training. Did something to his thigh muscle; there will be tests in coming days. (per acmilan.com)

good now maybe we'll see flamini play more.

Hope not. He's more of a red card magnet than Ambro.

sorry, stats say otherwise:

Don't care. I don't rate Flamini, simple as.

Well then thats a very fair and unbaised claim you made earlier then...

I don't see how Tennie is wrong. Flamini has the same amount of red cards as Ambro in LESS inutes played, so he is more of a red card magnet. His career at Milan ratio is bad too, 1 red card per 9 appearances, which I'm sure both Rino and Ambro don't even come close to.

do u have facts to back taht up?

You posted those stats yourself blue.

im talking about the ambro and gattuso thing. He said his carer at milan is 1 red card per 9 apperances???


Ambrosini has played 9 games this season too and he has 1 red card....

Given the numbers quoted above, I still don't see how I'm wrong, personal preferences aside.

your saying one is more potent to getting red cards when they all have a red card each... so your statement is clearly biased.

But Flamini played fewer minutes than Ambrosini, per the stats above, and has the same amount of yellows and reds. If he's on the pitch for the equivalent of a whole game less than Ambrosini and still gets the same number of cards, I'd say that he's more prone to them. So I think my analysis is fair.

not at all, I would agree for yellow cards but red cards are different. Players just don't pick them up every few games it happens once every few months. Your also judging by the minutes which isn't fair. If flamini had the same amount as ambro in terms of minutes than fine. But according your analogy i can say abate is more red card prone than ambro as well.

abate:

Year : 2009
Games : 7
Starting Line-up : 5
Substitutions : 2
Goals : 0
Penalties : 0
Yellow Cards : 2
Red Cards : 1
Minutes Played : 444


very red card prone this fellow here... He's more red card prone than flamini!!!

I think it's a perfectly fair means and standard to evaluate card accumulation. Minutes played per card accumulated. Using this method and the numbers quoted above, we can see that Ambro gets a card approximately every 138 minutes, Rino gets one roughly every 75 minutes, and Flamini gets one roughly every 119 minutes.

Don't like the logic? Not my problem. I'm perfectly happy with my analysis which I think is logical and fair.

EDIT: And that Abate gets one every 148 mins.

first of all its not a fair analogy because if you look at the games flamini has featured in vs ambro you can see we were on the losing end. Second your going by minutes played overall but your completely ignoring the sitaution of the players. When flamini has always played he has been expected to do the gattuso role while ambro was allowed to attack more. If we had a fair ref last night ambro's tally would have def increased.


Lastly the minutes to getting a red card ratio is absoloutly pointless because football doesn't work like that. There are no tactical red cards and there are no intended red card fouls. They are completely anonymous, therefore you cannot say someone is more prone because there is no such thing. The only thing you can base your analogy on is Ambro has recieved less red cards than flamini this season, which would make him thus, in your "theory" less prone to getting red cards but they have the same amount of yellow and red cards; so you cannot even say that.

Why don't we each stick with our respective logics? You clearly disagree with mine and I clearly disagree with yours.