I know it's not CL talk, but I dunno where to put it.

Sevilla 2-1 Spurs currently

More trouble in the crowd, is this just coincidence that an English team is involved again?

Your English, I do ask you have you ever been to a European game away? If you have you will know the police presense anywhere in the world is 100 times greater than if it were a team from another country.

Everyone is far stricter on the English especially the respective countries police force. The Tottenham fans were angry because if you heard earlier some of their fans were treated way too harshly by the Spanish Police.

This happens week-in week-out in countries like Brazil and Italy, yet as soon as ENGLISH are mentioned the whole footballing world goes up in arms. That's because our domestic league is far more secure than any other league in the world, before in Italy you could smuggle in fireworks in England you can't smuggle a coke bottle top.

I can name about a hundred European ties I've watched this season. I can only think of trouble in 3 or 4. Two of them involve Man U, and todays game with Spurs, it's not just coincidence.

And yes. I've been to a European away game before

I've watched loads of the Premiership this season, not crowd trouble in one match.

I've watched a number of Italy games, the whole thing had to be called off one weekend.

In Italy they are called 'ultras' in England they are called 'hooligans'. I'm not saying we are not to be blamed, but I think we get picked up on an awful lot.

And... alcohol is cheaper too. (Outside UK)

English people were the only who had problems in the Euro 2004. All the others, german, dutch, spanish, italians... no problem - not even with alcohol. Can't say the same about Ingurlund.

Not even going to bother anymore, I guess I'll live with everyone being anti-England we will probably go to war with you in a few years anyway

If you've actually watched videos from the Roma game last night (not the ones on Sky Sports that solely incriminate the Roma police)

The Roma police were standing along the glass and United fans pushed them out the way to get to it, the police were trapped between 1000s of United fans and a big screen of glass. The police were a bit extreme, but still they didn't do anything wrong.

P.S. Watching the Spurs half-time. Spurs fans are causing trouble. NO Sevilla fans involved, they retreated as soon as the Spurs starting attacking police. I'm ashamed to be English sometimes..

The Police were so over the top in what they did. That was what caused all the fuss, not what the certain Man United fans were doing but the whole hit them and ask questions later policy of foreign police...

The Roma fans were throwing all sorts of objects into the United end, now whilst I don't condone the reaction from the United fans, were they meant to just sit there and potentially gain fatal injuries.

And who did the Police go to the Roma fans nope, the United ones.

They were already standing in the United end, that's why they went to them.

The reason they were standing there?

What's it easier to do, contain 4,000 United fans, or 64,000 Roma fans? They were doing the smart thing, they'd have been killed in the Roma ends, crushed, anything.


There's plenty of times I've been sitting right next to the home support at an away game, once they scored and starting giving us real abuse. Did we start a brawl? Nah, it's United fans, they think they're invincible, think they can do what they want. They'll think twice about messing with Italian plice next time.

Oh c'mon...

I'm not anti-England. I am English..

What?!! Manchester United fans aren't like that in the main, have you ever seen the Liverpool, West Ham or Millwall ones, they are far more like that!

Roma are no angels in fact they are shocking, last year a group of 'ultras' randomly stabbed 3 Middlesbrough fans, they also did it to a Leeds fan as well from memory, I mean come on. They can get away with stabbing people the moment the English fans throw a water bottle, bang the whole world goes mental at them.

It's the reputation of past years that haunts us. And the fact that UEFA and FIFA blame anything on the English...

Haha, it's something that completely winds me up though, 95% of our fans are the best, nicest ones you could come across in Europe then there's the 5% and we are all tarnished with the same brush..

I never said Man U fans are the worst. Even the ones at the game have admitted they were as bad as the Roma fans. And they are biased towards Man u. Just think of what REALLy happened

Roma were given a loss a few year ago, with an incident from the crowd. A huge fine and having to play behind closed doors followed. I bet that won't happen to Spurs today

The FA 'mother' their teams too much. What's happened with the Spurs - Chelsea incident, which is terribly, attacking a player! Nothing has, or will, come of it.

Remember the 5-year European ban? What did Juventus get? I bet we will get one again soon, if the minority of the fans don't shape up.

Liverpool fans did kill Juve fans..

UEFA generally do favour English team, though.
Liverpool win CL and finish 5th so England got 5 CL teams.
Madrid win CL and finish 4th, the 4th place team had to forfeit their place

No, the stadium was inadequate. The Juventus fans were rioting beforehand even running at the Liverpool fans from the other end of the pitch, even heard someone shot a pistol...

I guess most people forgot the year before, Roma V Liverpool, the one where Roma fans bought weapons with them in their cars and rushed to get them before the game ended, to stab, assault and attempt to murder the English fans. What did Roma and the Italian football league get for that?

Yeah, it wasn't the best stadium. But it was capable of staging such an event. But the Liverpool fans were the ones going into what they called 'the neutral zone' which was empty. This ended up in the wall collapsing. IF they stayed where they should have, nothing would have happened.

How could they though, looking back they should have but at the time if you were getting pelted with rocks, missiles anything the Juve fans were hurling at them your natural instinct is to get out... the outcome was in no way intended.

They ran towards Juve fans, not away from.

My dad bought the 'Hitory of Football' book from one of the newspapers a few years back. It's got an image of English supporters, the main focal point is a man my dad new, holding a steel pole. I hardly think he's trying to defend himself with that.

Granted, we were mainly to blame on that, however UEFA only imposed the ban on us. Was just trying to make a point, however it is a bad subject to go back over and on that note will just say we agree to disagree.

Agreed.

In Italy have been played recently

Roma - Lyon
Inter - Valencia
Milan - Bayern

so we have fans from Germany, Spain and France and nothing like that happened

manchester fans have already commited violence acts this year in the previous CL round when they played against Lille in the away match

Feyenoord have been eliminated from UEFA Cup because of what their fans did

One thing is sure
manchester fans are no angels

I've personally never been to a game with much trouble (away to Birmingham was as bad as it got) so anything kind of violence is real extreme to me, I can't see how/why anyone would do it, un-alcohol related =\

I think we shouldn't say it's the "English" or the "Italians" when it comes to clubs.
There are some clubs that never 'cause trouble. Eg: Celtic.

In Italy everybody knows in Milano, usually the Inter fans are more violent than the Milan fans... more trouble, etc. Same for Lazio in Rome.

It depends.

In England you are used to having no police into the stadium and going into an away game with lots of cops causes discomfort and aggravation but this is no reason to mess with the police... They should know that heading towards them (in order to talk back to Roma fans who were provoking them - stupid reason, it happens everywhere) they would have to be "pushed back". And Police won't convince anyone to go back WITH WORDS!

I think the problem of English supporters traveling outside of their countries is that they know they're NOT going to be banned as if they would, and that is the right thing to do of course, doing the slightest mistake in an English stadium. I think there is a feeling of oppression (you can't even curse, while in sometimes every single one of us HAS to curse) and when they find the space they blow up... this is human, NOT English, but/and it happens.

In Italy disgusting things happen in the stadiums because Italians are stupid enough not to ban people who cause them. The fact though that this happens in England does not mean that hooliganism has been rubbed out. You know very well that riots are taking place in England quite often only outside the stadiums.

As for the Anti-Englishism, that is more than obvious, I think (but I'm a bit anti-English too as I hate Liverfool ) it happens cause English fans tend to be very cocky and cover their faults up. I remember when Serie A was arguably the best league in Europe (beginning and mid 90's), Italians (the media) and people I met here in Greece were not making fun of the other league or their fans and were not trying to cover the fact that there were still some incidents between the fans.

Now, English, both in the media and those I run into in the net are like "why do you bother with Italian football, they are all cheaters" which is the least to say infuriating. At the same time EPL (which is in fact the best league right now) "is out of this world and cannot even be compared with the others". Believe it or not my opinion is, that United confronted the Romans with that exact attitude of arrogance and as we know they paid for it!

Italians should at least been given credit for the fact that they conducted an inquiry and even relegated an Italian symbol, Juventus. On the opposite, they're ALL called cheaters and the World Cup they won is constantly debased as feckless and lucky. Well the moment the Spanish make an investigation to answer the ever-existent calls about Real and Barcelona being favored in the league and the English stop exonerating their clubs from blame (as in the recent scandal and the one about Arsenal and a foreign club they're supposed to own), then they can talk about such issues. For now they should calmly shut up!

^^^^^^



For the first time in my chequered history as a milanfan member, and monster poster....dst has left me speechless. If I were samurai I'd have to go and chop off my little finger.

Good post mate, yeah I'm with you on the fact it seems we still stereotype. We still think the Italian league consists of 0-0's all the time, yet on most occasions there are more goals in the Serie A than there are in the EPL.

However the bits on Riots is completely unfounded, whenever there is a local derby or on most occasions just a general Premiership game the police presence is massive. I remember going to a Leeds game and someone was shouting there mouth off at the traveling fans coach for some reason that was enough to see him arrested.

I think the fact is now here in terms of football security we act before things happen where as other places act after something has happened. I'm not saying that's necessarily the best way but it certainly has smashed out the hooliganism from the English game that used to follow us everywhere.

Sup Ash??!!! You sound depressed about that, man!!! Itchin for a fight are we?? Just kidding bro....

Haha, no mate I'm frightened of the 3-man gang, yourself dst and Portugal!

That's us striking fear into the hearts of mods everywhere. Though dst and Porty mostly spend time sniffing lines and attending NSF meetings. I'm the guy who has to do the leg work.

R7 provides financial and philosophical backing. han is the getaway driver.

Together we are JACK'S SPARROWS


Now THAT Porty mon ami is what I call gay. Get it biaaatch!

Haha, it is, shall we say, entertaining some of the discussions that you have with each other!

*sigh*

Things have changed now. Porty's kung fu ain't so good anymore. He does this guerilla warfare thingie you know.

Drop in..."Zlatan rox and Gila is cr@p" and make a run for the hills of Iberia.

The old ways of the Samurai have ended. It is a new world that faces us, terrible yet magnificent!!!

why is that?


Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it happens to the same extent it happens in Italy. It's much worse in Italian football but there still are some certain gangs of hooligans such as Millwall's that start a riot week in week out!

Acting before something happens is certainly the best way and Italians should follow your example!

Stop sniffing Jack. Oh, and yes, Zlatan is da man.

I'm believe it or not, not trying to portray England's great the rest are s**t. I just find the whole hooliganism thing = English annoying, but you all know that by now

I know. You had the chance to do so numerous times and you didn't.

Just to put end an end on this: Hooliganism = Human and it happens everywhere!

No it doesn't, well if ur thinking about that Panathonicus (spell) and Olymiacus game, then uv probablly portraid ur own picture of hooliganism.

Violence isn't common in football, it is just that when u have a derby, semi-final, or a very delicate game on ur hands .. That is where u find violence.

eg. Arsenal vs West Ham is a derby, but no violence there, cuz there isn't much riding on the game. Meanwhile, Arsenal vs Tot'ham, a derby as well, but the security would be so tight u would feel so helpless just sitting in ur seat. Point of the matter is, violence has no relativity to the game of football, just to certain games between one fan group and the other.

Manchester United fans ?? They went to Roma and we all read and saw what happened at the Olympico ... While Scottish fans that came to watch the Celtic game, nothing close to violence came about. And there were Celtic fans sitting amongst Milan fans.

All in all, Violence comes at certain instances and also in a pattern like most Liverpool games have to have tight security. Man U and Liverpool, security is a must. etc etc .. It isn't about dissecting a population and saying that these are the hooligans, but about understand where violence can happen from previous games, as it occurs in a pattern.

Hooliganism happens in Italy, Spain, England, Germany, ... so I really don't know what you're talking about. It's certainly just a minority of the crowd that cause violence, I never said it's the main picture. And of course there are many people in those gangs that don't even support any team and only do it for the "fun"...

Do they ?! I doubt it though.

And yes it happens anywhere, but only certain matches will there be violence. Not any match, that is what I'm saying

I'm talking about those "fans" that start a riot every week... I never believed they really care about the team they're fighting for!


Not in any match for sure. I don't think I said so... if I did, I didn't mean to.

.

Good news for Los Che. Fernando Morientes has been cleared to play in the Valencia-Chelsea game.

So... who goes trough tonight?

* Man Utd x Roma (1-2)
* Valencia x Chelsea (1-1)

I'll go for:

-I think a miracle can happen in OT. Roma is always a hard team when playing on counter-attack. Mancini, Totti... but they'll miss Perrotta. United will miss Scholes. DRAW.

-On the other match, it's unpredictable. As Chelsea misses Robben... maybe Valencia goes trough. Mestalla is not an easy trip. But... you know when you've Drogba, Terry (set pieces), Lampard deflected shots, Shevchenko, Ballack's power in the midfield... anything can happen and, the most important thing: Mourinho, usually, is a lucky guy. Anyway, DRAW.

Hsm. I'm never very good at predicting results, but I'll have a go.

Man Utd - Roma -- Even though the game is at Old Trafford, I think I'm going to give the edge to Roma. Their attacking form is tremendous, and United's defense is missing some key people. Cristiano Ronaldo could spoil Roma's party though. I think this one will be very close.

Valencia - Chelsea -- Another close one that could easily go either way. I picked Valencia as my dark horse candidates to win the whole thing months ago and I don't think I'm going to change my mind now. They have Morientes back and they're playing at home. Valencia for the win, but barely.

I think...

Roma will win 2-1 again.
Chelski will draw again in Valencia (1-1) and go to overtime.

Man U 1-1 Roma

Man U have been very poor in recent weeks. They lost to Portsmouth on saturday (Who lost 4-2 to bottom of the league Watford yesterday) Scholes will be a huge miss as he is such a danger in and around the box. Man U never seem to make the home advantage tell during CL ties. Roma to go through will a hard fought draw.

Valencia 2-2 Chelsea

Mourinho is determined to win the Cl this year, will be hard to win in Valencia, but I think they'll get the high score draw, wheil will be enough to see them through.


Now I've said this it's obvious that Chelsea and Man U will go through

Come on you Romans!

Man U 3-0 Roma
Carrick
Smith
Rooney

What the hell is going on?

Slaughter

Poor Roma

I just saw Doni take a goal kick. I didn't realise he'd turned up yet.

The first goal was a shocker from his points, he was way off his line.