I make it political because in Italy families and politics decide and rule. Do old families still matter in France or Germany? Perhaps, but by a considerably lower margin. In Italy business and politics are still run by the old industrial elites.

You compared were the one who compared Milan and Juventus. I only told you that Juventus have and always shall have a much stronger background, which gives them the financial infrastructure to be a powerhouse and overcome much bigger obstacles the we can. When football was semi-professional, still in the very early and naive phase, up until the 60's and 70's, it wasn't a big deal. But take a look around you now. Money and financial background are the basics of footballing clubs succeeding or failing. I'm just saying you should take this into consideration when you compare Milan and Juventus.

But how does that even translate in the context of football? That they have more money? Of course they do, but so does Berlusconi. There was a time when Silvio spent millions on the likes of Shevchenko, Rui Costa, Inzaghi, Nesta etc. whereas Juve had to sell Zidane to finance their moves. It's not like Juventus reside on a mountain of dollars after all.

Yet, 1) unwillingness to spend by Silvio and 2) mismanagement by Galliani have created this situation for us, whereas an apt business plan coupled with their financial resources managed to pull Juve back up in no time. See what I'm trying to say? We had the means to remain big, but we squandered every opportunity by relying on a bunch of senile fools to run this club. Whereas Juve used their means to their best potential, and they returned to being great again.

I believe Juve has more revenue than Milan these days, but the bigger issue is how effectively the money is used. And it's not just bad player decisions (of which there have been many). Go back and read about the last stockholder meeting, scary how a lot of our money is spent. Hopefully the sale will go through, and the new management will clean up the mess (in general, I trust Chinese business people). Not that it is all great, I read that we may become a "farm" for Chinese teams, but it is much better than the status quo. (I hope.)

Again, wrong. All I'm trying to tell you is we do not have the same means, but you keep hitting this button. Well, have it your way then. Sure. It's easy peasy. Mismanagement, senile fools who all of a sudden turned from gold into shite, whereas Juve just becomes shrewder and shrewder every year like a true vintage.

What makes you trust Chinese business people? Creating a "farm" would be humiliating for Milan. Not that this status quo you're referring to isn't, don't get me wrong...

The debate about which family is the strongest can go on and on, but fact is, Juve have been run properly while we haven't. And that's the reason for the huge gap between the 2 clubs today. The Agnelli's for all their power and money have never spent the amounts of money that Silvio has, but I guess that's also part of the problem. While we had a sugar daddy plugging the holes and throwing money at problems they have been run like a proper business and the owners weren't just there to clean up debts at the end of the year or pump cash to buy this player or that player as a gift to the fans to improve their popularity at the polling booth

I don't get how you won't acknowledge the main difference. Juventus has a fall back system, prepared to act as a fail-safe in almost every dire situation. It's bigger then just one man pulling the strings. Yes, Juventus got managed properly, surely.

Juventus has been run properly because they got organized and tied in with all other Agnelli business activities for decades. Milan never was that kind of a story; we were a one-man-show, bound to explode one day. The thing with us is that we did not have or could not have the same fail-safe strategy and the same anchor.

In the end, I'm glad that I was and am a Milan fan. I'd change all the shrewdness in the world from the Agnelli's for what Berlusconi achieved with us. Even with this fall, with this mismanagement case, I'm still proud of what Milan become. We had a brand of football, we inspired people all over the world to join us and take part in our history. Milan played for most of the part better football, we proved to be winners on all stages, whereas Juventus only did that in Italy while remained a looser in Europe. Now it's very painful to watch the gap growing, sure. But no regrets anyway.

I agree, I think we're just lamenting different things tbh.

I think Milan's problem though is that Silvio used it as a political tool as well, and we suffered for it

That being said, I do agree with you that I have no regrets in being a Milan fan and all the emotional experiances that brought with it.

Hopefully this month we'll got through another major moment for the club which will be a fresh start and new beginning

Tell me why we went from dominating European football to absolute shite in less than ten years.

Experience plus what little I know about who may be taking over

China has high ambitions for elevating their status in the soccer world, which is why you are starting to see crazy money for players plus investments in teams. If this makes us more competitive in Serie A and at European level (which it should), it will be far less "humiliating" than the present situation. And, realistically speaking, I do not see us getting out of the present situation in any other way.

Very, very good assessment of the situation, and I agree with you on being proud for what was achieved.

I think Fillipo explained it quite well. Different management philosophy, Juve was set up to run as a proper business, Milan was more like Berlu's "hobby", which he also used to support his political ambitions and financial dealings. Worked well for us while Berlu could throw money at the team, but things changed with the financial crisis, Berlu's political problems, and the fact that buying quality players has become much more expensive in relative terms. In this new world, teams that are run as a business have the advantage.

Because of multiple reasons. Errors in judgement, mismanagement cases, even situations that were completely outside of the footballing domain. As I said earlier, we did not have the same structural organization Juventus had. Maybe it's boring and too extensive to go deep into history, but by doing so you'll find the big difference.

Once the economic crisis kicked in, once Berlusconi started loosing grasp of political power and stability within his own party, once he lost control over the state his party and his country are, we lost the upper hand. Finivest pulled the plug, Berlusconi wasn't there to cover up. Galliani didn't operate like that (at all) and found himself in a completely new situation, which he managed poorly.

We started from one error to another, which in the end lead us right where we are. Does that qualify as a good answer?

According to most outlets, even the serious ones like ANSA and Reuters, the sale has been postponed to next week, but will definitely happen by the end of this month.

Supposedly, the delays have been because they couldn't come top an agreement regarding the last 20% of the shares and how they will be paid and when, so now they're moving to a 100% sale immediately (Which would be awesome news if true).

As for the transfer market, atm everything is at a standstill. Galliani had a meeting with Silvio to try to get him to release funds, but he wouldn't comply (for obvious reasons, why would you put money into a house you're about to sell?). So atm we're stuck waiting for the preliminary to be signed or for Bacca and some others to be sold before anything can be done.

Musacchio and Zielinski seem to be on standby atm, but tbh I don't know how long they will wait, especially Zielinski who's had various other clubs after him (mainly Liverpool and Napoli)

If they're going to fire Galliani and Barbara and all, their first priority will be finding replacements. Where then is the time for hiring a transfer guru. And then for having him scout for targets, then begin negotiations and close deals. We have one month left.

Yeah, this is going to be one of those seasons. But hurry we're sold!

I don't think they'll fire Galliani right away. This is probably going to be a transition period with Galliani and Gancikoff. Afterwards, perhaps...

He already said himself that he doesn't know what will happen and that he's staying until October and then he doesn't know.

I personally don't think that the new owners will want to keep Galliani, they'll want to put their own people in the important positions.

Also, Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal, etc are stating that Sonny Wu who's the co-founder of GSR Capital is leading the consortium. I honestly don't know anything about them or how they work

@TheMilanBible Sonny Wu and Steven Zhang will buy Milan with other Chinese investors. Robin Li to hold a small stake. [Repubblica]

‏@TheMilanBible: The preliminary agreement will be signed in the middle of next week.

@TheMilanBible Once the preliminary agreement is signed, Galliani and Barbara will be stepping down. [Repubblica]

@TheMilanBible Galliani will only remain for the initial stages, as a market consultant. Gancikoff will then take his role.

I honestly do hope that the CEO role will be a solely administrative one, and the transfers will be delegated to a proper Director of Sport

And I hope people like Paolo Maldini or Sandro Nesta will be involved.

We'll see.

Having those guys would be a huge boost. Having someone of that stature at the club will help us attract players to come on board. Like back in the day we had Leo who really helped us, especially with getting Brazilians.

@TheMilanBible The Chinese will put €15M for the market. However, exactly €9.6M will go to Berlusconi for signing Lapadula. Milan could gain €30M for the mercato by selling Bacca. [Sky]

Honestly, if this is correct that's another season down the drain. But if Galliani is out by the end of the summer, I'd say this is the best transfer campaign we've had in years!

But this just doesn't make much sense, why would Galliani even be trying to sign Musacchio and Zielinski when he has no money to work with? And why spend 10m of that on a Serie B player? Just doesn't add up tbh.

Also, we should be really trying to push for loans with obligation to buy and offer a slightly inflated sum to compensate. We've done it before in big moves like with Zlatan so don't get what the problem is now. Kovacic could be available on loan (Real want it to be a dry loan, supposedly, we should push for an option to buy clause). Barca reportedly want to offload Turan, I think he'd be great in Serie A and that's our midfield problems 75% solved.

I'd try to get those 2 on loan with obligation to buy and close the Musacchio deal and be done for now with the market. Maybe it won't turn us into contenders but it would make us more competitive and definitely a shoe in for the EU spots without breaking the bank just now

Also, what is this obsession the media have with selling Bacca? there are MANY others on our team who need to be sold and we could get some cash from.

Menez, Poli, Honda, Kucka, Diego Lopez, Bertolacci, Ely and Matri are all players that should or could be sold to free up space and a bit of cash.

I know Bacca is obvious because he's the only player on this team worth a damn but we could get 5 to 10m for each of the players mentioned above, so I don't understand why Galliani isn't working his @ss off to shop them around and informing their agents to find other clubs for them as they're no longer part of the Milan plans.

Menez could fetch us around 8m and I think League 1 clubs would be interested in him. Poli could get us around 4 to 5m, I'm sure mid-tier Serie A clubs would be interested. Kucka is wanted by Toro, we could easily fetch another 6m off him.

Honda was wanted by a couple EPL clubs, his marketing potential is huge (he was our biggest shirt seller last season), but it's just not worth it, especially if we're desperate to free up funds this summer. I think we could get around 8m or so for him if we shop him around a bit to the English sides.

Lopez is wanted by Chelsea but apparently we're willing to give him up for free (!!) (we're apparently desperate to get his wages off the books so Galliani sees just the act of removing him from the squad as a win, forget the fact that he would be worth actual money on the market ()

Ely, Berto and Matri all have their appeal to mid-level clubs in Italy, we should try to get something from their sales

We can't sell Honda. I like this season's jerseys and I want a Honda and a Bonaventura.

Reports are that his and Suso's agent was at Milanello speaking to Galliani yesterday and he'll most likely leave.

Get a Romagnoli shirt instead. It will be much more worth it.

Also, most papers saying that 3 of the names which are part of the consortium are Sonny Wu, Steven Zheng and Kweichow Moutai. The last one are a state owned Liquor company so that's the probable link to the Chinese government

Agreed


I have stopped trying to make sense out of what Galliani does.

According to Gazzetta world we are close to an agreement with Arbeloa pending approval from our Chinese buyers
http://www.gazzettaworld.com/news/transfer...adrid-defender/

This story has been repeated and repeated a lot. Arbeloa seems to have been offered to Milan and we are considering it but not too seriously I think.

Of course his agent will propose him to us. After all we've become the garbage bin of Europe.

What's going on with the Chinese takeover? Wasn't it finalized? Why do we have to drag things so long? Look at Inter, they closed it in a matter of days.

This says the Arbeola move was blocked by Gancikoff, too old and would be hard to get rid of him if he does not work out. If this is true, I am starting to like the new management, plus it is an indication that Galliani may be on his way out (also good).

As for the takeover, it keeps getting delayed (which means this market window is shot). OTOH, if Gancikoff is really making decisions it would seem it is progressing.

Inter? Really. Look at them. No real activity, shady takeover, a messy squad and a coach under big question marks.

We're in a bad situation, but I trust Berlusconi in the way that he found the right owner for Milan and that he'll ensure a more prosperous future with big investments. If another summer is what it takes, I'm in. Inter is really a bad example.

I agree, Inter seems like a mess right now. And as much as I may be unhappy about our current situation and blame Berlu for much of what's going on, I believe he honestly cares about the team and (to a large extent) is trying to do what's right for Milan. Also, I am ready to take one more season of disappointments if I can see a path that takes us back to success. (And, right now, I see no better path.)

We won the first match of the International Champions Cup beating Bayern Munich . We looked pretty good for a team that's just started preparations a couple of weeks ago.

The midfield again looks suspect. Niang looking good though.

Postponed for another 2 weeks. All due to Chinese bureaucracy due to the deal being so big, also due to the terms of the deal having changed from 80% to a 100% immediately.

So atm everything is at a complete stand still.

Galliani has his hands completely tied, and I think he's been muzzled as well by both Fininvest and the Chinese. We haven't heard a peep out of him since Montella's press conference. This is usually his preening season so I'm assuming that he's being kept on a very tight leash atm

Also, a lot of reports saying that there has been a power struggle between him and Gancikoff.

I personally don't think he'll last past December.

Also read that Gancikoff won't be the new CEO but the COO. So Hopefully a proper CEO will be appointed and a proper Director of Sport will also be brought in once this thing is finalised


What's new? Haven't seen it, it was at 3 in the morning here. but Bayern were playing their B team mixed in with the C team as well. I wouldn't read too much into friendlies. Unless we change up at least 2 players from that midfield and bring in a proper CB to partner Romagnoli this will be another season down the drain

A couple of updates:

@TheMilanBible BREAKING: Agreement reached between #Milan and Bordeaux for #Menez. Expected to take his medical on Monday. [Sky]

@TheMilanBible #Menez is expected to join Bordeaux on a free transfer and is ready to sign a 3-year contract. [@fantagazzetta]

@TheMilanBible Milan could close the deal for Zaza soon, with an important meeting scheduled for next week. [TMW]

I honestly do not understand the logic behind this Menez thing. So we're desperate to bring in cash from transfers but we give Menez away for free?? Honestly, it's just dumbfounding how this club is being run. You wouldn't hear something like this anywhere else. We could have easily asked for 5 - 6m for him and at least gotten something out of it. Same thing with how we're trying to get rid of Lopez. Who imo is still worth money as he's a good keeper. all we care about is getting them off the wage bill. Just terrible business once again.

And no comment on the Zaza thing. It's the Matri story all over again

I watched the game against Bayern last night. The team looked quite solid I don't really read into friendlies too much but I would say we looked more organized and the type of game we played was different than what it has been.

Suso looked a bit out of his depth, but the system suits Niang and the type of player he is. I think Montella is the best tactical coach we have had in the past few years, and I think his system will have us playing better but we obviously need an injection of quality to compete in Serie A. I really thought this would be the summer where we clean house and have an injection of cash but it seems like this window will also be sacrificed.

I have read some rumors about Napoli are looking at Bacca as a replacement for Higuain. I would do a deal for money and Jorghino or Gabbiadini, I think either one of those guys would be able to slot in and provide a slight upgrade at the respective positions. Our midfield definitely needs an upgrade, and we could also use another cb to pair with Romagnoli. Should have made a deal for Benatia when we had a chance, but that is the type of deal you have an easier time making when you are playing in the cl.

With Menez, I believe salary may be the reason behind the move (we need to reduce our overall salary bill, so this helps even if it is a free transfer). As for Zaza, I have to hope that sanity will prevail (and I am encouraged by the fact that Galliani will not be able to make this decision w/o approvals).

I think Zaza is much better then Matri tbh and also, how can this be the Matri story again when he'll be probably loaned out to us first?

Just keep it calm. Menez was/is a finished player, we did right so to offload him. I think that collecting money from rejects leads us nowhere, no matter how much broke we are. From what I can see it's either:

A) we get sold to a good investor who gives us substancial funds
Berlusconi pulls the plug if he finds out the investors are gonna do a "Inter/Tohir" story to us - and if this happens, I honestly don't care any more about who we sell and who we bring. It's gonna be old Matri out new Matri in. Sadly, this day you have to have much money to find the right players, a good scouting network and a little bit of luck.

When your transfer budget is ~ €0 than I think it's important to get decent deals out of the players we have.

Other clubs sell their players. We first give them high wages and then they don't want to leave or the clubs who want to buy them can't match what they're currently earning with us so the players would rather stay and earn the cash. So we end up trying to compensate for that by giving them up for nothing

As for Zaza, it's just rumours in terms of the condition of the deal. And honestly, I don't understand why we're even looking at any striker to begin with.

I think your scrutiny won't work here. If you have a budget of 0 you get 0. It rarely happens differently.

Dude, they just got acquired. You can't expect sh*t to turn into gold and roses overnight. Give it time.

And shady takeover? How so? I don't know who bought them cos I don't follow the news closely anymore, but at least they got it done quickly instead of prolonging things to no end.

If there is a club who's a real mess right now, that's us, not Inter.

Man, you gotta shake up a bit. How can Inter be a positive example when they already had a Tohir happen before and now they got sold quickly like you wished and what? No real transfer rumors as well, a mess with the coach and players? Icardi probably leaving? What's positive in their situation other then the quick sell?

Yes, sure. We're in a mess. But if Berlusconi finds the Chinese worthy of selling (to say so), we're back on. Whereas Inter took the path of quick and numerous transitions without any true judgement. If they're lucky they'll be okay, if not, they're in the same mess.

You're being negative just for the sake of it. Let me retort.

Firstly, quick way out doesn't necessarily mean bad. Do you know who the new owners are? Do you know what their plans are? Do you even know for how long they might have been negotiating behind the scenes? Like I said, the purchase just happened a few weeks ago, a lot of things have to be settled. Give it time.

Secondly, Inter had a very good signing campaign last summer. Miranda, Murillo, Kondogbia, Perisic, Jovetic, Ljajic. Compared to ours, it was far better. So, you can't say Thoir was a lost cause for them.

Finally, there's no real issues with the players, just Mancini. And that's his problem. According to Mediaset, Arsenal have offered 60 million for Icardi, Napoli are willing to offer 70 million, but Inter don't want to sell him because they have a project they want to carry through (which I don't agree with cos I don't think Icardi is worth that much, but that's another issue).

If Inter are a mess right now it's because they're in a transition phase, which is completely logical. On the other hand, we have no clue what the f*ck we're doing.

Yeah man, give it time! You were the one who first labeled it as a great development for Inter. I merely said that the transition they're going through isn't as smooth as one would think reading your comment.

What?? I didn't label it as a "great development for Inter". I merely stated that they closed their negotiations in a matter of days, whereas we've been dragging this crap for over a year now. It was simply a comparison, but then you started throwing all sorts of negativie remarks towards Inter, which I don't really agree with and which most importantly have nothing to do with my initial point.

Perhaps you're right. Anyway, speed doesn't mean anything. I'd rather we do it carefully and benefit from the transition as soon as possible then rush things and enter a cycle Inter entered. Because you can praise them as much as you want, in the end they're still poorly managed, make mostly bad signings/poor choices and have pretty questionable future goals.

I still believe that they (Inter) are in a better position than we are. The players they brought in last summer have for the most part increased in value, and they seem to have a project. Sure this summer has been slow, but their summer has still been so much better than ours. They have brought in Banega, who will improve their midfield considerably, and I also saw today on Gazzetta that Candreva is headed there. He would improve their forward line. Their defense was quite good last year mainly due to Miranda and Handanovic, and they are both still there.

We on the other hand don't have one good quality midfielder, and all we seem concerned with is bringing in more forwards. The defense needs work, the midfield needs work, and even our forwards aren't good enough if we sell Bacca. The only saving grace we have is Donnaruma and Romagnoli who are young players destined for a bright future. Our management is a mess and this takeover gets pushed back every time things seem to get close. This year we will be lucky to make the EL while they will be competing with Rome and Napoli for the silver medal and a CL berth.

This is a big year to make the jump back into the CL. No one can touch Juve but Rome and Napoli are both weakened by the loss of stars. If we spent the money and made big moves this summer we could be right there competing but if anything our squad on paper looks worse than last year. With one month left there is still time but with the state of things right now and our inability to strike a deal with the Chinese things don't look good.

Yes, they benefit from last year's investment. However, they still are a bit of a mess. FWIW, the rumor is that Chinese buyers had approached Moratti, but Moratti refused to sell to them. So Thonir stepped in to make it happen (knowing he would eventually sell to the Chinise). If true, this could explain how the sale was closed so quickly (these negotiation normally take time), and why it happened after Moratti sold his remaining shares.

So (assuming the sale happens) we need to be patient one more year (we can start building in the Winter). If, OTOH, it does not happen, then we have problems.

I know we have to be patient, but I feel as though we all have been patient for a long time. Why couldn't they get this deal hashed out before the two months when we could have made moves to really solidify the team. It doesn't make sense to me that they pushed this deal back to August when we have been hearing it would get done by June, then July.

AFAIAC Inter is in a stronger position than we are. Last year the top dogs in the league were Juve, Napoli, Rome, Inter, and Fiorentina. The Viola haven't made any groundbreaking moves to move up the table, Napoli and Rome each sold their best players to Juve, making both of them significantly weaker. If there was a time to jump back into the conversation it was this year. I'm not saying we drop the ridiculous money that is being thrown out, just put the team back on the right track. Our midfield is abysmal, not one quality player our defense has a gaping hole in the center. I think Montella's tactics will suit the players better than his predecessors but the lack of quality is apparent.

On top of this, every promising name we are linked to amounts to nothing. I understand that the money isn't there to splash, but man we aren't doing anything. The team is playing in the US now but it seems that the players that were left home are the ones we are looking to offload. Menez, Bacca, and DS among them. I think DS can still come out good, he played very well at the Euros, he just needs a bit of confidence but we seem intent on getting rid of him which baffles the mind. Instead of getting stronger we seem to be falling even further into mediocrity. Every year we burn before a takeover will be more time on the other end when the money comes in. At least if we sell players put the money into young players, building blocks for the future and success. Niang and Menez are perfect examples of this. We got both for peanuts, Menez we are sending away for nothing, while Niang's stock has only risen.

With the way the transfer market is now and the astronomical prices that players are going for, the best way to become successful is by buying young players when their value is low and selling them and turning a profit or using them as cornerstones to a successful team. Juve is the perfect example, as much as I dislike them, their model is fantastic. They have found sustained success despite giving away a guy like Verratti. They built most of the team from the ground up and now as they push for CL success they can afford to drop silly money on Higuain. Now they are completely out of reach for the rest of Serie A.

Juve has been managed very well, we have been managed very poorly. Even when we have thrown money at the transfer market, the results have been inadequate. Our situation will not change short of an acquisition leading to a change in management. As for Inter, yes, they are in a better situation than us in that they have gotten decent players and money to spend. However, they have their problems as well.

Just cos I'm bored, what do you guys think would be the best starting line-up with the players we currently have?

I think that anything other than 4-4-2 would be stupid. 4-3-1-2 is outdated and we don't have the trequartista for it, just like we don't have the appropriate players for 4-3-3. Hence, I'd play:

Donnarumma; Abate, Zapata, Romagnoli, De Sciglio; Suso, Montolivo, Bertolacci, Bonaventura; Niang, Bacca.

By the way, are we playing the Supercoppa this year by any chance?