It's been pretty much confirmed Pep's leaving. I do not want him at Milan as I simply don't rate him.

I knew changes were happening this summer, and this proves it.

We'd be lucky if we got Guardiola, but I don't see it happening.

Why would we be lucky? Why do people rate him so highly?

Because he's won 13 trophies in the last four years, and Barcelona wouldn't have become the best team in the world without him. Why else?

Have we forgotten the Ibra factor?

It would be an either/or situation, and at this point this team is just not good enough without Ibra. Unless Pep is given a blank cheque to work with I'd rather go for someone else

Rijkaard and Ronaldinho are responsible for it. Guardiola just took a winning formula and let his top players express themselves.

I don't know why so many attribute Barca's success to Pep. Or are you equally saying he's responsible for their slide this season?

The two sentences above are the very definition of truism. Barcelona hadn't won the league in 6 years before these two came on, let alone a respectable showing in the CL, forget winning it. Whatever Barcelona is now is built upon the the foundations of Rijkaard and Ronaldinho. Both have passed on from there, but their impact will live on.

The newer generation owes an awful lot to these two, for putting the Catalans on the road to success. Sure, they have brilliant players now in most departments, but as with all big things, they did not happen overnight. Take a look at this Ronaldinho episode of a beautifully produced football documentary series, Football's Greatest:

Footballs Greatest Ronaldinho

Rijkaard and Ronaldinho? The former has done nothing since he left Barcelona and the latter has nothing to do with the current team and wasn't even Barcelona's best player when he was playing for them, Deco was.


Come on now, how unfair can that be? He's won so many trophies, it cannot possibly be that simple!

Quite simply that is pure rot. You're saying the player widely regarded as the world's best at the time, Ronaldinho, in actual fact wasn't even the best at Barca?



Lyon won everything under the sun under several different managers - Santini, Le Guen, Houllier. Or were each of them just incredibly special?

I don't. Like you said, he just had great players. This season he made some decisions that make zero sense and have cost them everything.

I'll wait to see how he does elsewhere before I call him a top coach. Most top coaches have done amazing things at lesser clubs to earn their reputation, he has not yet.

Messi is widely regarded as the best in the world together with Cristiano, you think he's the 2nd best (maybe 3rd, I cannot recall how you rate Iniesta?) player in Barcelona... we all have different opinions.


I'm not saying Guardiola is incredibly special. I don't think he is. But I believe reducing his achievements with Barcelona to merely what you said above is unfair.

And no, not everybody that wins is great but that does not mean that every coach that wins with a great team is not great either.

LOL. owned. (no offense Danny )

- Depends. Is Messi the best as Barca or the tip of the spear which is actually driven by Xavi, Busquets, Alves and Iniesta?

- Wow! You lost me? You're comparing the perennial league winners Lyon to the Barca of Guardiola? A Barca that competed in the modern era against other genuine big money clubs in Europe? Ever heard of clubs talking of parking the bus against Lyon because to do anything else is suicide??

There's a reason it is Pep's Barca that is being talked about as perhaps the greatest club side of the modern era. And don't forget exactly where Barca were when Rijkaard left. They were on the downswing. And hadn't won anything for 2 consecutive seasons.

In fact Rijkaard hasn't won anything since the 2006 CL win against a 10 man Arsenal.

Sure Pep has had the benefit of having a great set of players...but that doesn't mean he's a shite coach.

Do I want him in Milan? No. He has a different philosophy which wouldn't work here...but he is a good coach, and a rather able tactician. I would definitely rate him over Rijkaard.

I see it's official now, I thought it was just talk. Well, it's disappointing, I wanted Pep to stay and continue his duel with Mou. But it'll be interesting to see how Barcelona will do under a different coach.

and Pep says he could not bare the pressure anymore... could that be the real reason? if the pressure at that level is indeed so exhausting, it makes SAF's longevity seem even more astounding.

I don't remember who they lost 3-2 to, but Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc were on the bench for that game and Messi didn't score. Yeah, he's great, but he needs them like they need him.

How can he have owned me when he just contradicted himself by initially saying Ronaldinho wasn't the best at Barca then saying it's all about opinions?

So, no offence taken at all!

You both owned each other then!


Cool

I used to consider Iniesta the best in the world but he's not sparkled much this season. And nowadays I'd say it's an even fight between Ron and Messi. As you say, it's all about opinions but you're the first person I've ever seen who believes Ronaldinho wasn't even the best at Barca, never mind the world.



I'm not saying he did nothing, I just don't think he's anything that special at all.



So what's Pep then

Everyone owns everyone on this forum. Except Jack.

tbh I don't think Messi would be what he is at club level without them. His inability to translate it to his country suggests so. But I am not saying he's a rubbish player either.



No, I am saying it's entirely possible for a great team to be great because it is great, and not because its coach is responsible for it. Lyon were sensational for years under different coaches. They beat Real Madrid a couple of years ago with no effort, home and away.



Bit like Barca now eh?
So does that prove my point or yours?



Never said he was. I said he was over rated and not as great as some seem to think.



His tactics are limited to plan A. He seems to have no plan B as you've seen debated on here. If he was a great tactician, he'd be able to alter his methods to overcome obstacles.

Well to be fair to him, no one talks of him now as that brilliant a coach. His importance will be realised only later when the same bunch of players don't win as much under the new manager.

When Capello/Sacchi was there, it was the Milan of the Dutch or the Milan of Baresi, Maldini etc etc...

As for Plan B...to be fair he tried something of that sort with Ibrahimovic, but it didn't work out in the end due to different reasons. He has had his share of troubles this year with injuries and fatigue too. Barca in the end have only a pool of around 20 players to play in 3 competitions (more if you include the CWC) this year.



It proves mine, coz this is nothing like the Barca Rijkaard left. Barca won the double last season. And 'even' if it's not that important, they still have a chance to win the Copa del Rey this season, so they wouldn't remain title-less at all. So that's a potential 14 titles in 5 years. Stupendous!

The longer it is, the easier it gets. I can imagine SAF's first few years being tough, but once he passed the standard coach shelf-life of 5 years, he only cemented his legend. A bit like Arsene Wenger, he hasn't won anything of note since before the release of first iPhone, but his adventure continues.

Regardless of that I do agree, Alex Ferguson has acquired legendary status. Unmatched legendary status.

Define Jack. We have at least two of them, Baur and the plundering pirate.

Obviously Jack Bauer.

Hell hath no fury like a pirate scorned.

The thing is SAF has always won things, not every season granted but most, it's pretty incredible especially when at times they didn't have the best team in the league/Europe, and don't either to this day.

But one thing most people forget is it took him 7 years before he even won the league at Old Trafford. I remember it well, back when I was a kid, it was Liverpool who were in control in England in the late 80s. Man Utd were a work in progress.

Managers would never be given nearly a decade now.

Weren't United being suggested as relegation candidates when Fergie took over, then he got them to mid-table? Then finished 2nd the following year, had a real disappointing year after that (which is possibly when he could get fired these days). Managers would get time if they turned the clubs fortunes, even without silverware (look at Moyes). Football was completely different back then in terms of parity (Liverpool aside) and yes I agree to a point managers get no where near enough time, certainly at the higher level.

Moyes has actually been a very interesting case. He's flirted with relegation on many an occasion in his tenure. One season he's got Everton doing brilliantly - they even ended up in the Q3 for CL a number of years ago, the next they're in a dogfight with Wigan or suchlike.

Madrid currently 3-0 up, Ronaldo now has 42 on the season.

Can he make it to the 50 goals mark, that is the question!

I doubt it, 8 in 3 more games he would need. I suppose it's do-able as he generally does better the 2nd half of a season. He scored 7 in his last 3 last season too.

Agreed, not entirely impossible, but it would be great if he did. Oh, the miss against Barca! He'd be at 43.

I watched a bit this morning. One question, how on earth is having your foot in a dangerous position resulting in an indirect free-kick in the box, surely it's either a foul & a penalty or nothing at all. Unless I've missed some update in the rules.

I'm not entirely sure on these kinds of rules. I think because it's not actually a foul, they can't punish with a 'chance to score', so outside the box it would be an indirect free-kick, same inside the box.

Personally I think the use of indrect free kicks inside the box should be used more, for things like accidental handballs. That way you are still being punished for doing something 'illegal', but it's too harsh to give a penalty for something that was completely not your fault.

+1

Especially on handballs on crosses... I mean, come on, how many crosses result to a goal really? It's totally unfair to award a penalty in those cases unless of course it's a breakaway situation with the man set to receive the ball being undefended.

Alonso's put on a bit of weight.

Just over half an hour.

Ah, brilliant! Marcello looks like a 10-year-old in the GIF, not that he acts any more maturely during matches.

Barca 4-0 Espanyol... Messi 4 goals (2 penalties). the ref gives them penalties like candies.

50 league goals (10 penalties) so far. I don't know how he will find motivation to play the rest of his club career in that silly league. surely it'll get boring someday? though it's unlikely that things will remain as rosy as their are now. both for him/Barca and Ronaldo/Madrid.

That's what, 5 penalties in the last 3 games?

10 penalties in the league this season, Ronaldo with 12.

Anyway, the european record was 47 goals in a league by some Romanian player, nobody had 50 till now. Ronaldo with 45 will need a crazy game next week to tie it.

Like him or hate him, a 72 goal season (2 games to go) is pretty crazy. Even in FM I don't remember ever doing it with any player.

Agreed. Even if you're playing in the best team in the world, with some of the best players in the world, in a rather defensively weak league, 72 goals is still beyond logic. Well done to him, really.

Yeah I read somewhere he beat Muller's all-time high European record.

El Economista: "Kaka', worst Galáctico ever. Absolute rubbish".

Link

If he'd scored that penalty we wouldn't hear this. but that wouldn't have made this statement any less true. he was overall a flop.

If we bring him back I'll throw myself out of my window.

Drenthe says Mr. Messi would repeatedly call him 'negro' during their encounters. What a wonderful person.

His and Sheva's examples are quite incredible. From world class, Ballon d'Or winners at Milan and idols of the fans, to complete rubbish players nobody cares about at Chelsea and Madrid. Huh.