Ronaldo is classed as 'metrosexual' - hence why he is often labelled gay by many.

He's basically obsessed with his appearance and grooms more acutely than most women do.

I don't think he'd notice if dst managed to steal Irina, since he's mostly in a relationship with himself, that has to get crowded

It's like a bunch of women. Put the claws away

Well he's the best player in the world along with Messi, but the man is an ego-maniac, no one can deny that

Notice how I worded the first bit, did that to avoid ruffling any feathers

I honestly don't think there's a best player in the world.

imo there's a group of 4 players who all give massive amounts to their respective clubs. 3 from Barca, and C Ron.

Outwith this 4 I honestly don't have a clue who the next best players would be.

Rooney? Aguero? Ibra? Sneijder?

Then clearly you didn't understand what I was saying. He's a prolific scorer in the best team in the league with comfortably the best midfield.. It wasn't a put down. He's just doing what Larsson did, albeit at a higher level. That's the only comparison I'm making, the goals.

Not really. If you go back, you'll see that it all started after I posted stats of both of them from since Ronaldo came to Spain, but a little remark about CL got blown out.

Not being funny but what are you on about?

I posted stats of CR at 10:10pm yesterday night, had a brief discussion with Han, then you then responded with other stats at 11:06pm...


---- Which was in response to Kurt saying about a CR HT (feel free to check if I'm apparently lying), it wasn't in response to a Messi post or anything. In fact there was no sign at all of any debate, let alone a CR/Messi one? Unless we are tracking back months ago or something.

----- Then you posted at 11:06pm...

So yeah, I actually went back and well... I guess I was right.

Did it ever occurred to you that the stats I posted has nothing to do with what you posted and it wasn't a response to anything and wasn't supposed to be provoking (and it wasn't). I was curious, checked it and posted it. Simple. Was it too close to stats you posted, should I have waited a day/week/month instead of an hour just because someone might take it the wrong way?

You responded to it (in a normal way), I responded back (in a normal way) in which you found a little dig about the CL, I explained it and I thought we were over it. It wasn't even an argument or something. And then Kurt posted the Larsson thing.

It must just be one gigantic coincidence then. NO one was talking about Messi, but he got bought into it then Han laughed and said something like 'another Messi v CR debate because someone posted something about Messi', when the main reason was because I gave Cristiano credit...

What? It wasn't that, that I responded to, you are a tad confusing. The last post was in response to you saying...

I think you are ignoring the little fact that Messi doesn't just score goals. he creates a lot of opportunities for his teammates as well. it's not just Xavi and Iniesta.

That's the thing, it wasn't because you gave Cristiano credit. I wasn't refering to it or responding to it. That thing was over. I just wanted to check the full two seasons stats because I was curious and though someone would find it interesting. I posted the full stats of both of them without interpretation or anything. The fact that you took it as relevant to your post from a hour earlier is your problem.









That's it, and then came the unrelated Kurt post of how he doesn't rate Messi.

@Zed: Because he plays in easily the best teams. That's my point. If the players around him weren't as good, he'd get nowhere near the amount of goals OR assists.

It''s not that I don't rate Messi. I just don't see how he's on the same level as the 3 I've prviously mentioned.

Funny how you quoted it simply from your post.

Your post came because you saw mine then made a comparison and talked about Messi. Han said the debate started because someone talked down of Messi. When in reality it started because I posted those stats, that's all I said, if you can't understand that, then that's your problem.

Wow. It's nice that you know better than me why my post came.

You posted:

talked with han about it and it was over.

After the end of Barca game, I wanted to chech the full stats (not only goals) because this stuff is interesting for me and might be for other. I checked it and posted it. I wasn't responding to you, I wasn't saying that one is better than the other or anything like that. I wasn't strating any debate and you post taht follow wasn't starting it either. That's it. Should have I waited a week aws it o.k then? People can see waht they want to see, I can't foresee that people will be looking for intent in every little thing.

Thing is in your original post you said


To me you saying 'Messi just also scored a HT' kind of meant that you read the posts above via Kurt - about Cristiano's HT and I'd imagine you saw my post underneath. Otherwise wouldn't you just say 'Messi just scored a HT' or along those lines? Then underneath you posted figures similar to mine but added Messi's to them. Therefore I took it as ok, you saw Kurt's post then mine, then responded with stats, though including Messi this time.

Then Han implies that the same old CR v Messi debate was to do with 'mentioning something bad about Messi' when in my mind the original source is me posting some fairly nice figures for Cristiano (obviously not as great as the glorious Lionel Messi's). For reasoning aforementioned above.

You responded a few posts back and I said it must just be a big coincidence (which from what you are saying, it is).

If we were going by Kurt's analogy then Seedorf would be a bulldozer in the Barca midfield, no?

Messi wwould be insane to leave Barca right now .. Maybe in a couple of years when the team is in a transition, he might opt for a new challenge. But not now, and I don't think there is much to prove n a new league anyways, whoever is lucky to land him will have brought in arguably one of the greatest players in the history of the sport.

CR on the other hand is a versatile player .. His class is not in question, I believe it is his attitude that provokes and attracts negative responses. That said, he is a fighter on the pitch, he takes to the initiative and delivers.


All that into consideration, Zinedine Zidane is better than both IMO

Agreed

I like the slant on the debate though, we're not debating Messi V CR, we're debating about who started the debate on Messi v CR

No, the response "Messi just also scored a hat-trick in a 5-0 win over Atletico" was a reference to the game I was watching that just ended (vs Atletico) and I found it funny how Messi wanted to score a hat-trick after CR just had one, hence the smily. The other half was just a different unrelated post. That's why I put -------- behind it, because I didn't want to write double posts one after another.

I saw your post, you talked about it with Kurt and Han and it was over. After the game I was curious about full stats not just one-liner with goals but also assists and goals scored from penalties. Took few minutes to find it and I though others might be also interested. I wasn't starting a debate, there were just simple numbers for both players without any commentary. if I wanted to respond to your post and start the whole thing, I would have quoted you. I thought you understood that with your initial response about how the league sucks and all.

Your argument is flawed because Messi is one of the biggest reasons why Barca are the best team along with a handful of others. he's the cause, not the effect of it. that could be said about Pedro or Bosquets. they're benefiting from playing in the best team, it's what makes them look better than they'd be if they played for us, for example. not Messi.

Pedro would be an average player in any other team.

I have to admit, I posted the popcorn thing about the debate because I might have wanted to provoke one

Now it's just turned out into a he said/he said debate instead, which is not very interesting, I have to say

I disagree.

You look at the front end of the Spanish team and then the Barca team. Spain are the best and all they've essentially done is replaced Messi with either Negredo/Mata/Silva/Navas depending on how they play. None of those players are as good as Messi right? yet they still dominate.

Though one thing I do agree with is that most of them play together for club and country, which is why I don't rate Xavi/Iniesta higher than Ronaldo. Ronaldo does it in a pretty poor International side and has done it in multiple leagues. None of the others have ever been outside of their comfort zone, well except for Messi in Argentina, and he has not acheived anything with them really. Even when Brazil took their reserves to the Copa they easily beat them.

I think Spain are much inferior to Barcelona. The fact they lack someone like Messi is a decisive factor in that. Not to mention that their game is 10x more boring.

Don't wanna go to this whole debate again for the 5456456 time, but just wanna comment about this point. Does what? Ronaldo's and Messi international stats are not that different. Messi - 17 goals, 20 assists in 60 games. Ronaldo - 29 goals, 5 assists in 83 games. They both never really excelled at international satge and since when Portugal is a poor international side?

Portugal have never been that great to me. They're not even at England/Holland level.

Even great players can't win stuff on their own. But Ronaldo has taken Portugal to only their 2nd World Cup SF and their 1st Euro Final. Let's face it, even with the likes of Rui Costa and Figo, Portugal were a pretty bad team at International level, they didn't even qualify that often. Now with Ronaldo they're overacheiving.

Argentina have always been good and have far better players than Portugal. Yet Messi really hasn't acheived much. Especially when you consider that South America isn't that strong a region and Brazil only take the Copa half seriously, you'd think he'd have done something great with them.

That's just my opinion on it.

They are about Holland/England level to me, but even if not, not far from that. I wouldn't call them "a pretty poor International side".

Ronaldo didn't really 'taken them to their 1st Euro Final'. In 2004 he was just another talented 19 y.o kid and was far from a dominant player he's today. That team wasn't dependant on him but on old guard of Portugal's golden age like Figo and the rest, and they made SF four yaers earlier. They really should have beaten Greece in their home Euro. In their fourth place finish you mentioned in 2006, Ronaldo was hardly on fire with one goal in the tournament, same in the last WC and same in the last Euro.

Yes, Argentina was always good and they have plenty of talented palyers upfront but in the last 20 years they also had plenty of problems like weak defense and most importantly they have a tendency to pick clown coaches (Maradona pick aws just sad). In a short tournaments, it's important to have someone decent. But yeah, Messi wasn't as good for them, to say the least, and no one denying that (though he'll have more chances, he's only 24 y.o), my point is that CR isn't that great for his either if you check closely his record and his showing vs big international sides.

I think the International talk generally only comes up with Messi as it's the only other way to judge him. Ronaldo has already proven he can be a beast elsewhere. People just want to see Messi do the same.

2 La Liga starts for Higuain and 4 goals. NOW do you get it Jose? How Benzena starts ahead of him mostly this season is just bizarre.

Jose likes his team gangsta yo. Benezema gots da hustle!

Benzema works harder for the team, and that matters more to Mou

There's an interesting article on Mourinho in FHM UK (November issue) - it's very scathing in places, but attempts to readdress the balance by quoting positive comments from ex players about him.

(as a random aside, if I had a scanner I'd upload pics of the hotties for the perverts (like myself) in the girls thread)

A real pervert would find a way ro scan and post them. You are a disgrace to the pervert community.

Anothet hat-trick by Higuain in a 4-1 win over Betis. Kaka scored too.

World class. At least Jose seems to get it now. One of the best pure finishers in the game, HAS TO start.

Barca beat Racing 3-0 (Messi-2, Xavi), Valencia drew 1-1 with Mallorca (Rami - Hemed) after a 90's minute PK.

Levante can catch Barca in the first place if they can beat Malaga.

Higuin 3 hat-tricks so far, one for Argentina and two for Madrid

Higuain + Ronaldo twice and Madrid are 3-0 up in half an hour against Malaga.

0-4. Ronaldo hat-trick, '38.

Oh dear...

The defending on that corner is Sunday league stuff. Is this really supposed to be the best league in the world as it is billed as? Don't make me laugh!

It used to be, now it's no better to the Scottish league. Aside of the top 2 obviously being respectively better.

Messi misses 95th minute penalty to cost Barca 2 points. Think it was justice, Iniesta was on the floor before any contact was made. Sevilla finished with 9 men.

Incredible finale! Sevilla's goalie really deserves a golden medal.

How many points are Barca clear now?

Apparently Cesc being racist towards Kanoute which got him pissed off and resulted in a red card. Cesc conveniantly had his mouth covered when he said something to make Kanoute react..

Villareal 0-3 Levante

Levante continue leading La Liga. But gosh, Villareal are looking absolutely horrible this season.

Don't be silly. Valencia, Levante, Villarreal, Sevilla, Atletico Madrid, Espanyol - all miles better than anything in the SPL.

I know you compare the 2 leagues religiously with this logic of yours, and while both effectively have 2 teams then the rest, it's crazy logic.

Unless I misunderstand wildly.

I'm not talking in terms of depth, you'd have to be pretty silly to even accuse me of that.

I'm talking the gap between the top 2 and the rest.

And the level of general interest - which is important. Once you could watch Deportivo-Real or Valencia-Barcelona (remember the golden days, when the Bats eliminated Barcelona from CL qualifications) as entertaining thrillers. Nowadays you get pretty much one sided matches with some poor defending and rudimentary tactics.

La Liga is a two horse race but unlike the SPL it's more than just 2 teams. there are Sevilla, Valencia, Atletico Madrid or Villarreal fans around the world as well. but I agree with Fillipo, watching anything from La Liga other than el classico not always but 'usually' turns out to be boring.