I don't see how they aren't comparable.

First, they both make gestures. Neither are any better or any worse. Mourinho is mocking Messi in a way, Messi is mocking the fans.

Secondly, they both 'attack' someone while they aren't looking.

They're the same, but obviously Jose's will be looked at worse.

Yes, because Jose does this sh*t on a constant basis. I don't remember Messi being provocative apart from this episode.

Because it is much worse. He out of the blue decided to put his finger in someone's eye, a colleague of his who didn't provoke him in any way. That shove is the least anyone would do. Other person in Villanova's place would beat the **** out of him. So no, it's not comparable.

Talking about things people don't mention - how about Mou and Madrid players left the field right away before medals were handed out. I guess he's tired of seeing Barca lifting cup after cup, even thouh Barca players did no such thing when Madrid won Copa Del Ray. No wonder that even Madrid newspapers are now terning against the "special' one.

Kurt, come on, you've been watching football for a while. Do you think Messis "attack" would be regarded as a red-card foul by any normal FIFA referee? While at the same time, should Mourinho be red careded? What do you think?

You can't threat them the same, I told you this already, it leads you to grave mistakes.

Exactly! This tells more than a thousand words.

I think he's great. He's a breath of fresh air and has been for a long time.

I'm not exactly a Jose fan boy but I prefer him to a lot of managers out there.

He also happens to be one of the best.

I think he's turning into a pungent stench these days

Had he gone down holding his face, it's certainly possible. But then he's a Madrid player, so he remained standing up. Had it Barca involved he would've been rolling around holding his face, no question.

Jose's doing an awesome job still. He's showing they can pretty much match Barca now. What's that, 2 Barca wins, a Madrid win and 3 draws in the last 6? So it's pretty laughable the way people are trying to be-little his managerial ability at times.

Red card? Absoloutely, I think there should've been a tonne more red cards, Jose included.

That's why I like him, he gets people talking. Love or hate him, he adds colour to a game which can sometimes lack personality.

he adds color? he's making a mockery of the game and RM... I honestly wish him the worse, not just in his managerial career, in his personal life too. I think he's an awful, mean, spiteful, arrogant and disrespectful person that does not belong anywhere... I seriously hate him.

But he is the Special One

For gawd's sake DST man, don't mess around. Tell us what you REALLY think!

And to think I respected you an awful lot.

I wouldn't really condone wishing ill on a footballer/manager's personal life tbh. I hate Neil Lennon but I don't want harm to come to him.

Why would it be a shame to admit you can't stand someone? I must say, I myself despise Mourinho and all for what he stands for. I'm not moralist usually, but the way he acts and adds "color" to the game, I'd rather have a black-and-white moment. Why should someone respect him, or pretend to like him? It's not a question of hatred, more it's a question of what you feel and how sensitive you are.


But, after pages and pages, we should end this.

I just hate him. He's the worst thing that has happened to football since I've been watching and he's turning me away from it. I don't want him dead or ill or anything, I just want him to realize what a pathetic being he is and hate himself like I hate him and move away, that would be just great.

We all remember Messi since 2005 - he might have acted like a typical Argentine once in a while (scoring with his hand, diving, etc.) but he was never like this. until Mou went to Madrid and saw no matter how much they spent $$ to buy success they were no match for Barca, so he started playing it the dirty way. especially when it came to handling Messi (funny how he gets better and better every time while Madrid lose more and more games).

To cut it short, it's Mourinho's fault that Messi is no longer a saint!

If one person is putting you off football, then your interest wasn't that strong in the first place.



Unfortunately, I didn't really understand much of what you just said. I was with you up till black and white moment then I must say I lost the flow of it all.



I agree.

So who's better, Messi or Rona...

I seem to remember Messi rolling around against Chelsea, then look out the corner of his eye to the ref to get Del Horno sent off, Mourinho was the manager then, so I guess we can blame him for that too...

yeah whatever

Wait, Messi was a saint?! I mean they way he kicked and took out Maicon's teeth in the CL semi? And a whole bunch of other sneaky stuff. If he is, then boy, he's one clever saint, if ever there was one. I mean I can agree that Silva is one, Maldini was another, Ronaldo, Baggio, Casillas, countless others I am sure.

But Messi, for the length of time I have been watching him, is a swift, smooth criminal. Always has been.

We all admire and love him, but Sila isn't yet in the same category as Ronaldo, Baggio or Iker, needless to say Maldini.

You're coming across really badly in this thread.

Totally agreed, and I personally thinks that he isn't there 1/10th of the way, still a long road. I was just talking about the sainthood, as in conducting yourself on the pitch. Now, Silva rarely does move in with a malicious tackle, or with the intent to injure other guys. Same goes for Maicon, and Cafu before him, and the chaps I mentioned above.

They are just examples, yes, but all these players are in the same mold. I would add Kaka' too, but the last year the guy was so frustrated with constant injuries and his transfer saga that he did make more than one stupid and offensive challenge. I consider any move that carries the possibility of injuring another player (whether it's because of malice or recklessness), out of bounds. And then there is behavior with the crowd, plus how a player behaved during fights.

Heck, I didn't even put Nesta in the list, because a lot of his tackles have been careless - watch any compilation video and compare him to Paolo Maldini. Effective, but careless, and a couple of them (at least two that I saw live) even resulted in penalty kicks. But our eternal #3 was from another planet it seems, get the job done without injuring yourself or the opposing player.

Same goes for Ronaldo, the real one, with his thighs he could break legs if he wanted too. But nope, nope, nope!

Exactly
-
Btw, didn't Mourinho once insult Ronaldo as "uneducated" or something when they were both in England? I bet if by some miracle he were to become Barca's next manager he'd forget all about his history with Messi and suddenly champion him as the best in the world like he does with all his players. at Chelsea it was Drogba, at Inter Eto'o and now Ronaldo. such a hypocrite.


Like I said in my post, he's an Argentine footballer and while I hate to generalize, most of them -especially forwards- share some characteristics like diving, cheating, etc. Messi was no exception (though not as bad as, say, Maradona or Zarate). but that's different from the recent gesture he made to Mourinho. he never was like this. if anything he was quite humble despite being probably the best forward in the world. but over the past season something in him changed, obviously since those games with Madrid. when Madrid stopped playing fair football and turned it into a thuggish thing to be exact.

This I can agree with. And yes, a bit of a generalization, but this is exactly what I'd do too. Argentinian players have a history (legacy, if you ask me, LOL) of violence on the pitch, they like their game rough, at least in the opposing half.

I can't do anything about it, I mean, I know it does not sound very nice to say I wish the worst to him but I seriously hate the guy and I think he's really really awful and a menace for football. it's just how I genuinely feel.

and then you come up with that, I don't even know what you're trying to say.

How do you work that one out? the 5-0 was part of 5 straight wins for Barca. Since then they've played 6 times. Barca 2 wins, Madrid 1 win and 3 draws. Fail to see how that's Madrid losing more and more.



On here everything is Mourinho's fault.

Yes, as is global warming

Barça won La Liga, Champions and the Supercup. Madrid only won Copa del Rey. See?

Yes, because that had anything to do with what he said. Maybe you should read Zed's post again.


I think you'll find, as I said, they aren't losing more than they used to.

Perhaps he meant losing more and more to Barça in general. It doesn't have to be games. For example, the second tie in La Liga last season was a pointless game since Barça was far ahead of Madrid. They could have easily lost it and it wouldn't have changed a thing. What really matters are the trophies. And Barça has been dominating in that department.

In regards to the title it was pointless. I think Barca wanted it badly though to tie Madrids record of 6 straight Classico wins.

I admit I wasn't thinking in numbers when I wrote that. though the 5-0 happened under Mourinho and it counts IMO (making it 3 to 1), I see your point.

You got a problem with dst? You got a problem with MilanFan.

Can someone translate this?

It's a pretty obvious statement,though it is pointless.

It's a joke, lighten up. What am I going to do to anyone over the internet? Talk cyber-smack?

The things the Persian can do

Yes were dangerous

Pretty obvious: dst=MilanFan. just like Maldini=Milan.

You doubt it?


What would they be? I'm curious!

^^

We didn't mean a Persian. We meant the Persian. And no Zed.D you don't wanna know. He does nasty stuff, painful stuff, anal stuff. dst likes it though.

AC Milan's Silvio Berlusconi: 50 per cent of Barcelona's success is down to luck

goal.com

And the other 50 percent down to pocketing the referees. Their road to the last three Champions League titles is littered with controversies and dubious calls - Milan, Chelsea, Arsenal and a whole bunch of other smaller ones. They are a force in La Liga, but that's more down to the weak league too.

I'm not taking everything away, but I had more fun watching Milan of the 90s and the 2000s. Much more fun.

How is the league week, because Barcelona and RM are vastly superior? Barcelona even made United look weak I guess the EPL is a weak second tier league then...

I didn't mean it in that way. The league being weak means two teams have had the biggest benefit, namely Barcelona and Madrid. They swoop on the best players, while growing their fan base and wallet in the process (title wins, money from sponsorship, merchandise sales and whatnot).

If instead of a bipolar league, there were 4-6 top teams then the ground would have been far more even. Heck, Barcelona may not even have qualified for CL a season or two (just like we missed out in 2008). It's just a continuous cycle, and the top two teams are making the most of it. Can't blame them there, but still, a fact is a fact.

Of course, Madrid's problems are simple - they have the worst defense this side of well, anything. Pathetically pathetic (this is a phrase I use very rarely) are the keywords here. The last few coaches they had were all tactically astute, they splash the money where needed, and are almost as arrogant and dirty as Barcelona. However their fan base isn't particularly crazy like the Catalans - they don't take everything personal and political (history, wars, etc). Heck, Catalan have an unofficial National Team (not recognized by FIFA), and that tells you about it, doesn't it.

And oh, finally that United IMO was a team with a very weak center. Mellow. And it all unraveled after the hour mark.

The league has no where near the strength in depth of the EPL or even the Serie A to be honest. The top-10 are ok, but underneath that it becomes quite laughable, I mean how many 6-0/7-0's were there last year?

You think RM and Barcelona would not achieve those kind of scores against the bottom third of the EPL and Serie A? I think they would.

On a consistent basis? Nah.