Well you brought up payers from the past who you said played top notch games not Abate, to me that is a comparison, I wouldn't know what else to call it if not that. Abate since he's returned from injury has started 3 games and came on early once in the CL. He played a great game against Juve, even the Italian commentators couldn't stop talking about it, and this coming from someone who can barely understand Italian and even I could grasp how much they were praising him for the work he did against Juve. Against Samp, it was another very good performance, and against Atletico, up to that mistake he was surely part of the best performers bunch again. And seriously, now we can't use the phrase "top notch" because top notch is something used for those guys only?

I mean this mentality that some of us have where we continuously live in the past still admiring the players we had then and not being able to at least appreciate what the current guys are doing is just sad, and completely unfair to these players we have now.

I never even brought up Cafu, I would never even dream of comparing Abate to him. That being said, Abate right now is undoubtedly one of the best FBs in this league. And we have him on our roster, yet I'm biased, etc ,etc for seeing this and praising him, instead of blindly criticising him because he doesn't measure up to the fantasy we have in our heads that Milan should have only Cafu level RBs


This


1 game shouldn't classify him as a "great FB" THAT is overrating and overcompensating for someone, not me praising Abate because he's been a great performer for us for 4 straight years now. A player who no one - namely me - had any hope for just 5 to 6 years ago has turned into what he is now.

Do you read the posts you quote? Man is said surely Costacurta wasn't a great fullback, yet you say I'm overrating and overcompensating, calling him a "great FB"? Really?? How does that make any sense?

Like I said earlier, this got out of hand, and it's my fault. Sorry for the bad example. I just wanted to clear up that my criteria when it comes to top notch performances is a bit higher then yours. I like Abate, I appreciate what he's doing good, but I don't have amnesia and clearly remember players doing much more and having much better displays.

Edit - on Costacurta: for the last time - he was a brilliant natural CB, and a last resort FB. He had one big match that made me remember his display as RB. And this particular match I'd say was a top notch performance. Cafu and Sergio had similar showings (more often).

The particular bit I quoted for that part is misleading as when I said great FB I was referring to your original post since you lumped Costacurta in with great FBs. And seriously one good game from him where he made an assist and put in some good work doesn't mean a top notch performance at RB either. If that's the case then it's clearly showing the bias you have as Abate had games where he provided an assist and put in great offensive and defensive work, yet for him it shouldn't be classified as top notch because his name is Abate not Costacurta.

And it's not about amnesia, it's about making pointless comparisons to players of the past that no one in world football today can even begin to compare to them. You really think any CB right now could compare to Nesta or Billy or even Paolo at his best? No way

Yes, my formulation was bad and the comparison probably poor as well. But now you accuse me of bias? Well, I have no problem with that, I think everyone is biased and unlike you, I discard this objectivity thing - especially in things like football.

On a lower note: this is my memory, it has nothing to do with bias. If the player was Kaka Kaladze and not Costacurta I'd still treasure that memory. For example I remember the heroic match Roque Junior played for us in the CL final, limping and still giving his best because we had no subs left. Is it because I loved Junior? No. But he managed to impress me that particular match. Same with Costacurta. Same with Jaap Stam. So I'm only comparing the feeling I've got from their display.

When I see Abate play - he's usually good, unless we play Inter. But there wasn't one match that made me think he's "that" special or top notch. Sorry, call it bias, a love affair with the past or any which way you like, but that's how I feel man.

Oh, and one last bit - I really would like to have some top notch performance from Abate. I like him, his work rate is uncommon, just like his passion and positional sense. But don't mention assists please. Because he produced a staggering total of 1 assist this season. That hardly qualifies for anything special.

How many games did he actually play this season?

And compare that to the rest of our FBs. I know for sure Urby has 1 as well, DS none. We're not a team that likes to play in the air and takes advantage of crosses. We really have no one who's really that good in the air aside from Pazzini and when Balo is fit Pazzo doesn't play.

Yes, you're right, our fullbacks don't deliver enough altogether. But look at this:

Name - GP - A - GS
Abate - 27 - 1 - 1
Emanuelson - 28 - 2 - 0
Constant - 15 - 0 - 0
De Sciglio - 20 - 0 - 0

So, once again, injury aside, I don't think you should mention Abate's assisting skills. Nothing special really, leaves much to be desired in fact.

Oh yes, one more thing - Abate played a total of 162 matches and provided a total of 7 assists (according to ESPN). For comparison, Jankulovski managed 6 assists in only two seasons, Cafu 4 in one. But let the past be the past - last season Lahm had 17 assists, Maggio managed 15 assists in the three most recent seasons, Jallet 8 in the last two, Fuchs (Schalke) managed 19 in two as well.

Maggio didn't play at RB last season, give me this seasons's stats for him.

And as I said, it's pointless to really talk about Abate's assists as it's clear that out team struggles in the air, we rarely score off of corners and set-pieces as well, can't say the same thing about the Milan that Janku and Cafu played in though.

We had/have Ibrahimović, Pippo, Ambrosini, Aquilani, Silva, Rami, Pazzo, Mexes - all strong in the air. Yes, we ain't Manchester, but I disagree with you assessment. I don't think the players are the problem, it's our fullbacks that don't make quality crosses that often - Abate included.

Maggio - yes, he had only 1 assist this season.

So as a proper right back Maggio delivers the same amount of assists as Abate...

And Ibra himself made a comment that the part of his game he'd like to improve is his heading, he's not someone known for scoring headed goals all that often, despite his height.

Aquilani good in the air? That's a new one for me.

Mexes, Rami, Ambro and Silva were/are all players who only come up for attacks on set-pieces, and last time I checked Abate didn't take set-pieces, so why bring them up in a discussion about assists coming from FBs when 95% of the tme the situation is that you mostly have strikers to aim at in the box not mids and defenders.

From that list you mentioned the only valid name is Pippo, as he was a very capable guy in the air mostly due to his positional sense rather than physicality and Pippo was barely a fixture on the bench by the time Abate really cemented his spot as RB

I agree that our FBs need to be more productive in terms of their end product, but it's not their fault, usually when they cross there's only one person to aim at in the box, the chances of that cross hitting that single target being surround by opposing players is slim to none. We're not the type of team who floods the box with runners while playing on the wing so joy from crosses, no matter how good they are is hard to come by

Yes, finally we agree.

So then why are they crossing it?

Good question.

Yeah we do tend to punt in an obscene amount of crosses that are basically aimed at no one. I guess it's their answer when they run out of ideas

dst and Nova will just LOOOOVE this bit of info

Clicky

OMG nooooooooo!!! Can I apply for a different passport?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25...pean-Union.html

Ha-ha! You guys!

Look on the bright side, at leat you will have Kurt at your corner.

On second thought, maybe not so bright

Januzaj to play for Belgium.

It should have been either Belgium or Albania. Playing for England, Serbia or Turkey would have made no sense. Obviously I would have preferred if he'd picked us, but he was born and raised in Belgium, so it's a decision I can't criticize.

I hate it when players pick a country they really don't really have much to do with. Like Diego Costa spent a few years in Spain, now he's going to play for them. So dumb.

Yeah, but it will be doubly funny should Brazil win the WC

Well, in the case of Thiago Motta, for example, he never had a chance of playing for Brazil, so I can kind of understand his decision (plus his grandparents were Italian). The same for Paletta. But yeah, Diego Costa's example makes no sense. He's the hot stuff nowadays, wouldn't have had any problems being called by Brazil.

I think he went where he thought he'd have the most likely chance of winning the WC

Yeah sometimes even though I don't agree with players not playing for their birth nation, if they aren't getting called up then it's not really a big deal.

It would be funny if Brazil won it. Diego Costa turning down the chance to win the World Cup for Brazil, in Brazil.

We don't need no Diego Costa. Dude's an *** anyways.

Yeah, noticed that both against us and against Chelsea, he's a dirty player no doubt

Chelsea fans were chanting we'll see you next year at Costa and he waved at them. What a clown.

What did they mean and why is he a clown for that?

Chelsea want to sign him.

Seems a bit disrespectful to your current employer.

Andros Townsend now out for the World Cup. Do we even have XI English players left?

Got to be the Ox, been impressed with him this year. Don't think Sterling will be anywhere near as effective in an England shirt.

I think it depends on the team. I think he'l rip Uruguay and Costa Rica to pieces, not so much Italy, unless he's up against Abate.

You're funny kurt...

The Italy England game will be a replica of the one played in the Euros, basically the English players running around after the ball while Italy pass it around them with their eyes close.

Sterling's kick and rush style of football might work in the EPL but it won't in the big leagues, and luckily for Italy Abate's just as fast

Either way, it'll be a cracker of a game. One of my most anticipated already in the tournament!

Who thinks England make a game eagerly anticipating honestly? We're a worse version of the Chelsea side under Hodgson, if I wasn't English it would be the games I'd probably not really be bothered watching in the tournament being completely honest.

Sorry but our media hypes our players to ridiculous levels, the fact is outside of England no one wants them. Unless they're 32+ and want a pay day in MLS.

I'm in it for the media hype alone. Even though I was supporting England like crazy against Germany in the last tournament, that disallowed stinking goal ruined it.

Oh, by the way, the Chelsea comparison is spot on, though I think over the years, the English team has been decent enough, if not spectacular. Objective opinion. Maybe the media talk gets into the minds of the players and management, and they just so underachieve in tournaments. But the English NT has had some good lads.

Italy vs England, for my money, will be fun to follow on the pitch and off of it, just for the clash of civilizations and gameplay philosophy alone. So glad they did not fudge it up.

Italy England will be huge over here, simply because of the divide in who people here in Malta tend to support. Every bar with a TV screen will be packed

As for the English team, undoubtedly they've had some good and even great players over the years, but they've rarely had any really world class players. At least not since I've been watching football and in the last few cycles of players.

Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Cole, Terry and many more names, all great players, and all of which have produced some top class stuff for their club sides but never did anything close to that for their NT. But England have never really had a player of Ronaldo's stature (you can consider both Ronaldos here), Dinho, Pirlo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Del Pireo, Totti, Baggio, Maldini, Henry, Zidane, and most of these players aren't even from the current crop. That has hurt them over the years, and what's worse, their press hypes them up so much, you'd think they were going with an XI made up of the players I just mentioned.

Then people moan about it endlessly and trash their players until the next tournament comes along and suddenly they're gods again

Well, the tabloids have got to eat, just like they had a field day with Jeremy Clarkson recently. So much so that he had to record in a formal video apology. These are the guys that hype up the English players, to the determinant of not just the fans but also the players themselves. Why? Because when they fail, they'll be all over them.

Nice to hear that the game will be huge over there, same is the case in these parts of the woods.

It doesn't help that people want thing both ways.

Before a tournament you get the moaners saying that we always "fail", that we're nowhere near good enough to win. That's fair enough, we aren't good enough to win. Are we a top 2 team? Nope. Are we a top 4 team? Nope. Are we a top 8 team? I think were around the top end of the top 8. So to me, surely a QF appearance is a decent return on a tournament? Especially when we it's mostly a shootout loss and not an actual defeat. But these same people who say we're not good enough are the same ones who complain when we don't win the competition or reach the SFs.

So what is it? Is a QF appearance for a team that you don't think are top 4 acceptable? Or is it a "failure" because we don't win, even though we're not expected to? Anything for a moan.

I don't get that top 8 logic one bit. I mean not the England of the present, but the England NT in the first decade of the 2000s was a very strong team.

And the whole point was it was a team that on paper was good enough to go very far, but it still failed to perform. That was the criticism.

I don't agree with the top 8 comment at all.

Let's say I'm in school and I'm actually a smart kid but lazy. So I'm always say the 15th rank holder in a class of 30. If we hold a test and I score the 15th highest mark does that mean it's okay since I'm performing exactly as expected. NO! Because the point is not the stats here. The point is that with my intelligence I should be scoring in the top 10 of the class, and not just plodding along scoring the grades I do which is why I'm ranked where I'am in class.

IN other words, England are ranked 8 because all they do is finish at the QFs. The ranking follows the performance and you're putting the logic the other way round. Whereas the critics are saying England are a team that needs to do much better and if they did much better their rankings would improve.

---

This England NT though is the weakest I've seen in some time. That actually might work to their advantage. But Roy Hodgson is a reliable coach, not a performer. He's the guy you give a job to when you don't want things to get worse. Nothing however gets better.

For the record I was talking about us being dull to watch and I wouldn't if I were a neutral, especially under the way Hodgson will play, this is nothing to do with expectations, high or low.

On the other point I do stick with our players as individuals not interesting anyone really outside of England compared to the Spanish, Italian's, Dutch, Brazilian's etc.

Well not quite. A lot of your superstars simply tend to jump within the league to a better team. Two reasons could be:

1. They're like Italian players and don't much like leaving the country.
2. They're already in the best league in the world, and moving to a top team within the league makes sense rather than switching countries altogether to a parallel or a slightly higher team.

The superstars at the top teams rarely need to move out coz there aren't many teams abroad that are as good or can give them comparative chances of success. Perhaps Real and Barca? And Real have often taken in a few English stars. Owen, Sherringham, Beckham and now Bale.

Now there are then a few superstars who also do not leave. Like Gerrard for reasons of attachement.

Well the next step up is top 4. And we're not top 4.

And England aren't ranked 8th, we're 11th. My opinion is that we fit in the 5th-8th bracket and I don't think that's me either underestimating or overestimating our team.


Yeah I agree with this.

I personally think QF is just right for the quality England have.

I think the disappointment and moaning about failure comes after the massive over-hyping that occurs before England go into the tournament.

As I said above, England for the last 2 decades or so have missed that real top class quality leader on the pitch. They don't have flair players that can change a game on their own, they never really had any colossal defenders that in these tournaments decide a team's fate.

I think they've performed relatively ok for the players they've had over the years


I don't think that's as much of the case here jack, sure England have players who never really produced on the NT stage as they have done for their club. But imo they never really had a team that was good enough to go to the semis or the finals, which is always what's hyped by their press, which in turn is what makes each time a huge failure as they can never amount to that sort of expectation.

And this isn't the CL where a team can be well coached and organised and through sheer will manage to win it or get very far, we've had many examples of that over the years. Case in point Atletico this season, they're not even the 5th best side on paper that took part in the CL this season, yet look at where they are. You can't do that in a WC. You have a team that rarely plays together, you have limited matches where most often mistakes are punished and you're out. A WC is won by teams who have the class and talent to back it up

How many average to decent sides have won the CL? And how many have won the WC?

Hodgson says United players have to perform for their England place and can't just expect to be in the squad. I'm hoping this is aimed mostly at Carrick and Cleverley who are both awful and add absolutely nothing to the team.