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acid911
QUOTE (Darunia @ Oct 15 2008, 01:18 AM) *
Consider him gone. I don't get what the point of a buyout clause was anyways. Should've been at least 20 mil euros.

Or 50 million, just to scare other teams off. sad.gif Good show, baldie, you seem to have outdone yourself. But I don't want to blame Galliani so early after the good work he's done in getting us some much needed players. The blame should go to other parties, this time.
dst
QUOTE (Habitant @ Oct 14 2008, 11:06 PM) *
"But Gourcuff must understand that if he comes back to Milan he will have the competition of at least three or four midfielders."

What the **** is this, "Gourcuff must understand..."? Are we trying to make him not want to come back or what?

QUOTE (acid911 @ Oct 15 2008, 12:25 AM) *
But I don't want to blame Galliani so early after the good work he's done in getting us some much needed players. The blame should go to other parties, this time.

That makes absolutely no sense... I mean yeah and if your girlfriend brings you some much needed sex don't blame her if after that she gives a good **** to some other guy...
Habitant
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 14 2008, 11:13 PM) *
What the **** is this, "Gourcuff must understand..."? Are we trying to make him not want to come back or what?


That makes absolutely no sense... I mean yeah and if your girlfriend brings you some much needed sex don't blame her if after that she gives a good **** to some other guy...

again country club mentality. the new guys or people that arent part of the "click" or arent "cool" get shite. no one wonder we've had trouble attracting top players in recent years.

even at that galliani dint pull any coupes here. we signed unwanted players (besides flamini). zambrotta wanted out, and wanted to come to italy (juve dint want him, neither did inter). the only reason we got R10 was because he insisted on us.

Habitant
QUOTE (Darunia @ Oct 14 2008, 09:18 PM) *
Consider him gone. I don't get what the point of a buyout clause was anyways. Should've been at least 20 mil euros.

this mean Bordeaux probably wouldnt have accepted the long without the option. but again this just a case of us folding our negotiation demands.
gal_kenny
guys u gat the news about the buy out clause from goal.com...According to AC MILAN OFFICIAL WEBSITE, it said that Gourcuff will surely return...Gourcuff's been really inspirational...His move to Bordeaux has helped him a lot..He played again today for 81mins against Tunisia and he set up two goals for Henry, the first one being a screamer from Henry...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5UID8Yvaik
acid911
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 15 2008, 03:13 AM) *
That makes absolutely no sense... I mean yeah and if your girlfriend brings you some much needed sex don't blame her if after that she gives a good **** to some other guy...

It was more Carlo's fault for not grooming the player. wink.gif Fester got the kid, now it was up to the coach to nourish him, bring out his talent and polish his skills by playing him (at least regularly). Which we all know how it went. And then Carlo came up and told Galliani that Gourcuff doesn't feature in my plans and needs more experience, so let's loan him out. What's a guy like Galliani do in this sort of a situation.

Though I still believe a simple loan deal would have been more than enough! dry.gif Gila is back in his stride, Gorcuff is shining, and we still have a shot bullet like Emerson in the squad, wasting both our and his time.
dst
I'm talking about the buy-out clause... why should there be one?
acid911
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 15 2008, 05:16 AM) *
I'm talking about the buy-out clause... why should there be one?

That was my point, exactly. Why? dry.gif Somehow I never understood the shtick behind buyout clauses for loaning out talented players such as Gourcuff, and stupid co-ownership deals that results in unnecessary losses for the club, such as Borriello. We could have saved and used his millions and invested on another defender.

Plain and simple loan deals, please. Particularly if you're a big club loaning someone to a smaller one. mad.gif Unlike Sanderos who was/could have been loaned on a buyout-clause-basis, just because of the fact that two reputable, equal in stature, and big clubs were dealing together. This way both are talking eye-to-eye, much unlike the case of Gourcuff who we could (hopefully not) end up losing.
Jack Sparrow
What if Bordeaux refused anything but a loan with option? And if the only clubs who would accept him were clubs lower down the scale from Bordeaux?

As for Galliani's comment, I just think he means that Gourcuff shouldn't take a starting place for granted is all. He's up against Seedorf, Flamini, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Pirlo, Rino and Ambro at least.
Zed.D
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 15 2008, 03:46 AM) *
I'm talking about the buy-out clause... why should there be one?


Isn't there a buyout clause in every player's contract? unsure.gif
Jack Sparrow
I think it's an agent's prerogative. Kind of like a Get out of Jail card...if a good player due to whatever reason has to play for a 'relatively' smaller club then it becomes very effective.
Zed.D
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 15 2008, 11:24 AM) *
As for Galliani's comment, I just think he means that Gourcuff shouldn't take a starting place for granted is all. He's up against Seedorf, Flamini, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Pirlo, Rino and Ambro at least.


Oh don't exaggerate! you named too many... I think Pirlo+DMs have got nothing to do with Yoann as they play different roles. it's Ronaldinho and Seedorf [who in general play in the left side of the midfield and opponent's one/third] and that's it IMO.

As for Galliani's comment, everyone knows Gourcuff is never guaranteed a starting spot! as long as they're fit enough to play, Kaka, Seedorf, Pirlo, Ambro and Gattuso have a fixed starting spot in Carlo's book. Galliani is just talking bullshit IMO...
dst
QUOTE (zdrossoneri @ Oct 15 2008, 02:48 PM) *
Isn't there a buyout clause in every player's contract? unsure.gif

That's only in Spain.
Zed.D
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 15 2008, 03:47 PM) *
That's only in Spain.

You mean Yoann doesn't have a buyout clause in his Milan contract right now?
acid911
QUOTE (zdrossoneri @ Oct 15 2008, 07:39 PM) *
You mean Yoann doesn't have a buyout clause in his Milan contract right now?

It means he could have if both parties wanted to, but it's not absolutely necessary as it is in Spain. wink.gif Kapeesh?
Habitant
QUOTE (zdrossoneri @ Oct 15 2008, 02:39 PM) *
You mean Yoann doesn't have a buyout clause in his Milan contract right now?

i dont think anyone has one, at least that i know of. or else you'd be hering about it in the transfer rumors.
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (zdrossoneri @ Oct 15 2008, 06:40 PM) *
Oh don't exaggerate! you named too many... I think Pirlo+DMs have got nothing to do with Yoann as they play different roles. it's Ronaldinho and Seedorf [who in general play in the left side of the midfield and opponent's one/third] and that's it IMO.

As for Galliani's comment, everyone knows Gourcuff is never guaranteed a starting spot! as long as they're fit enough to play, Kaka, Seedorf, Pirlo, Ambro and Gattuso have a fixed starting spot in Carlo's book. Galliani is just talking bullshit IMO...


I think what Galliani means is that Yoann has to be so good, that it warrants a change in tactics. We saw it with Kaka, with Pirlo and even with Seedorf.

And it's not impossible either. Borriello is virtually a starter. And even less was expected of him than Yoann.

And I stand by the statement. Yoann will have to bench one of the 6 CMs I mentioned. Either his attacking play and ball possession is so good that we can discard the 2nd DM entirely (which I wasn't convinced about in his first stint. He overcomplicates things). Or he's a upgrade to Seedorf's lethargy while not compromising on the unparalleled brilliance when Zee is on form.

I want the kid to do well. But I'm not for saying, we should let the kid play, just coz he's a nice good looking guy. That luxury I only give to Favalli.
vnata001
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 16 2008, 01:49 AM) *
I want the kid to do well. But I'm not for saying, we should let the kid play, just coz he's a nice good looking guy. That luxury I only give to Favalli.


Hahaha laugh.gif
Jack Sparrow
What? I think Favster is a sexy frickin beast. And I hear he's really adept at reading the game with a great brain too. He might be future coach material, though me thinks he's gonna go Lazio.




Wouldya look at that. He look like Don Fookin Juan. Like Casa frickin-somebody-stop-me Nova.

I hope that is faux leather/hide though. I would hate for our club to be that irresponsibly fashionista. sleep.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Oct 16 2008, 08:49 AM) *
I think what Galliani means is that Yoann has to be so good, that it warrants a change in tactics. We saw it with Kaka, with Pirlo and even with Seedorf.

And it's not impossible either. Borriello is virtually a starter. And even less was expected of him than Yoann.

And I stand by the statement. Yoann will have to bench one of the 6 CMs I mentioned. Either his attacking play and ball possession is so good that we can discard the 2nd DM entirely (which I wasn't convinced about in his first stint. He overcomplicates things). Or he's a upgrade to Seedorf's lethargy while not compromising on the unparalleled brilliance when Zee is on form.

I want the kid to do well. But I'm not for saying, we should let the kid play, just coz he's a nice good looking guy. That luxury I only give to Favalli.

So you would rather have Ambro in their losing the ball constantly instead of winning it instead of someone like Yoann who is able to keep the ball and spread the play? Imo that 2nd DM is more of a liability for us then cover for the defence. Ambro also tends to complicate things, he holds the ball too long when he can't even run with it and lose it, Yoann did have a tendency to over complicate things a bit but that's because he was trying so hard to impress and he came to Milan without the experiance, these things he will learn as he moves along in his career.

Personally I don't see Yoann as a threat to either Kaka or Ronaldinho, but a threat to Seedorf and one of the defensive mids. But it will only depend on whether or not Carlo can step out of his comfort zone or get over whatever the hell he has against Yoann and actually play him.
mkenya

With Seedorf and Kaka injured, Ancelotti preferred Brocchi to Gorcuff...I've never been so disappointed...

Gorcuff is Seedorf's replacement and this should be done sooner!

The problem with Ancelotti is that he has a fixed mentality which is bad for the growth of the team (By the way, i dont think the team has made any significant growth in the past 8 years!! same players only that they are more tired now..) We ended up overplaying Seedorf and Kaka yet Gorcuff was on the bench throughout...

I'm also seeing flamini being wasted at Milan just like Gorcuff and if he is a bright dude, he should move come next season. I mean he is better than Gattuso and Ambrosini, but the two have to start!! is it an italian thing?? Gattuso i can understand coz he gives something extra..the psychological push to never give up..but Ambro?????????
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 16 2008, 09:25 PM) *
So you would rather have Ambro in their losing the ball constantly instead of winning it instead of someone like Yoann who is able to keep the ball and spread the play? Imo that 2nd DM is more of a liability for us then cover for the defence. Ambro also tends to complicate things, he holds the ball too long when he can't even run with it and lose it, Yoann did have a tendency to over complicate things a bit but that's because he was trying so hard to impress and he came to Milan without the experiance, these things he will learn as he moves along in his career.

Personally I don't see Yoann as a threat to either Kaka or Ronaldinho, but a threat to Seedorf and one of the defensive mids. But it will only depend on whether or not Carlo can step out of his comfort zone or get over whatever the hell he has against Yoann and actually play him.


This is where I disagree with you. I think Ambro's faults are too magnified, while Yoann's are glossed over.

I always thought, when Ambro was tasked specifically with being a DM, he's been great. Maybe even better than Rino, since he reads the game better, and Rino cannot do anything other than being a mid-field bouncer for Pirlo's and Seedorf's party. It's when Carletto has asked Ambro to do something else, like go forward, or play as LW or play as striker or play as third CB, that he's been put under burden of excessive duty.

And Yoann able to keep the ball and spread play?? I've seen him flop at that task quite often too, so it's not like he's a player who's done everything right, and was just scrwed. He does overcomplicate things and hence loses the ball or his team mates. I'm not accusing him of a lack of application, but unless he can fit into the team (He's no Kaka to make the team fit to him), he's useless.

That said, if his time at Bordeaux enables him to developed a complete gameplay style of his own (and this doesn't have to be like Seedorf or Flamini or Pirlo), then I'm sure Carlo would accomodate him.

The thing is Carlo is not going to give just any player on the team, the kind of position and style of play the player wants. He's given it to a very few people, who over time have proved their reliability. Kaka for one. Pippo for another (he'll never be asked to do a Gila task of being a poacher and yet having to hold the ball). Sheva once upon a time. And for some wierd reason Kaladze too, which is the only gripe I have.
Zed.D
Just days after Carlo saying Yoann will definitely return as it's just a loan...

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=916780

sad.gif
Jack Sparrow
..Well here's a quote from Flamini, it's tribal, but since it's a quote it's probably less BS. In any case tribal has cleaned up it's act quite a bit.

QUOTE
AC Milan midfielder Mathieu Flamini believes the Italian game doesn't suit fellow Frenchman Yoann Gourcuff.

Gourcuff is wowing them on-loan at Bordeaux this season and Flamini says: "The Italian league is much more difficult, defences are tighter and the tactical aspect is more important here.

"The opposition leaves far less space. For an attacking player like Gourcuff it's more difficult, but Yoann is a good player."



Pretty much the point R7 and myself and I think once upon a time Tennie was making (before the other two abandoned ship). When I see Yoann's technique, I think wow...but it's the rest of it that frustrates me. The thought process behind his play is just lacking.

At present he's suited to a gameplay that makes his sole focus to attack, and leaves him free, instead of having to be a cog in the wheel. I think even in Bordeaux he plays like that.


The sad thing is all my previous posts make it sound like I'm anti-Yoann. I like the kid, but just wish he'd be put through some hard training, coz I think he could be bigger than.....are you ready for it.... Andrea Pirlo. cry.gif I can't say anything more now can I? cry.gif I'm sorry Andy..I'll always love you though. wub.gif


Zed.D
Flamini's quote is on the official website as well...

QUOTE
These days there's been a lot of talk about how well Gourcuff has been doing abroad. Is the Italian league that different from the Italian one?

"Yes, the Italian league is more difficult, the defences are more closed, the tactics are more important, and the opposition gives away very little space. For an offensive player like Gourcuff it's more difficult, but Yoann is still a good player."


Jack, your analyze cannot be very accurate because you never mention the fact that Yoann wasn't really given many minutes last season. you talk as if he started 30 games last season and still looked confused and out of place. sometimes talents need a little time and patience from others to adapt themselves with their new team [which is filled with supertars] and you cannot argue that Yoann was never shown that much trust.

Now here's Yoann's last season's appearances (from acmilan.com) - I don't want you to reply me. just judge for yourself if Yoann could have made an impact with these inappropriate opportunities Carlo handed him - no wonder now that he's playing consistently for both Bordeaux and France NT, he's shining again...


day1 (Genoa) -> played 8 minutes

day2 (Fiorentina) -> played 0 minutes

day3 (Siena) -> played 90 minutes

day4 (Parma) -> played 0 minutes

day5 (Palermo) -> played 0 minutes

day6 (Catania) -> played 0 minutes


day7 (Lazio) -> played 6 minutes

day8 (Empoli) -> played 25 minutes

day9 (Roma) -> played 0 minutes

day10 (Sampdoria) -> played 23 minutes

day11 (Torino) -> played 11 minutes

day12 (Atalanta) -> played 7 minutes


day13 (Cagliari) -> played 0 minutes

day14 (Juventus) -> played 0 minutes


day15 (Reggina) -> played 7 minutes

day16 (Livorno) -> played 90 minutes

day17 (Inter) -> wasn't called up

day18 (Napoli) -> played 10 minutes

day19 (Udinese) -> played 0 minutes

day20 (Genoa) -> played 0 minutes

day21 (Fiorentina) -> played 0 minutes

day22 (Siena) -> played 0 minutes


day23 (Parma) -> wasn't called up

day24 (Palermo) -> played 44 minutes

day25 (Catania) -> played 0 minutes

day26 (Lazio) -> played 90 minutes

day27 (Empoli) -> played 46 minutes [started]

day28 (Roma) -> wasn't called up

day29 (Sampdoria) -> wasn't called up

day30 (Torino) -> wasn't called up

day31 (Atalanta) -> wasn't called up

day32 (Cagliari) -> played 15 minutes

day33 (Juventus) -> played 0 minutes

day34 (Reggina) -> played 10 minutes

day35 (Livorno) -> played 0 minutes

day36 (Inter) -> wasn't called up

day37 (Napoli) -> wasn't called up

day38 (Udinese) -> wasn't called up



Starts: 4 rolleyes.gif (out of 29 possible)

Minutes played: 480 (out of 2600 possible)
han2503
Great post zd

@ Jack, I know it would have been too much to ask of Carlo to implement a system that would specifically suite him like say a Kaka, or Sheva back in the day. But at least give the kid a chance to try and adapt in the team, he played amazingly well in that old Seedorf position in the midfield 3 on his debut, had he been given more time I would have no doubt that by now he'd be a starter.

And you're telling me that it's not ok to have someone like Yoann who might over complicate things a bit but it's ok to have someone like Ambro in there, who personally I still feel is a liability for this team, no matter what loyalities we have towards him I still thinks he's not good enough to be a starter. Personally I get more frustrated seeing Ambro trip over the ball constantly then seeing Yoann over complicate things a bit but in the end we all know that he is a talented player that given enough time he will be a star in the future.

Personally I believe that had we had another coach like for example Rijkaard who has no problem giving young players a chance, Yoann would be a first team starter today rather then away on loan with us risking to lose him for a stupidly small amount of money.

And for the first time I can't really blame this on Galliani, because he was the one that brought him in, but what can he do when his coach doesn't want him in his team?
gal_kenny
Guys on espn and certain other websites, Bordeaux claim they have the final say if he'll return back to milan...Tis very intriguing and funny because they think the own him...The fact is we do...Tis all speculations...Don't worry guys, Gourcuff will return to milan because ITS JUST A LOAN DEAL...Just like how Chelsea loaned Crespo to us..He had to go bak...so that ain't no problem with Gourcuff's case...
dst
QUOTE (zdrossoneri @ Oct 17 2008, 05:16 PM) *
Jack, your analyze cannot be very accurate because you never mention the fact that Yoann wasn't really given many minutes last season. you talk as if he started 30 games last season and still looked confused and out of place. sometimes talents need a little time and patience from others to adapt themselves with their new team [which is filled with supertars] and you cannot argue that Yoann was never shown that much trust.

EXACTLY! This is the truth, 100%.
Darunia
QUOTE (gal_kenny @ Oct 17 2008, 10:11 AM) *
Guys on espn and certain other websites, Bordeaux claim they have the final say if he'll return back to milan...Tis very intriguing and funny because they think the own him...The fact is we do...Tis all speculations...Don't worry guys, Gourcuff will return to milan because ITS JUST A LOAN DEAL...Just like how Chelsea loaned Crespo to us..He had to go bak...so that ain't no problem with Gourcuff's case...


It's not just a loan deal, you should realize that Gourcuff has a 15 million euro clause and Bourdeaux can choose to exercise that before April 15 or whatever.

QUOTE
"There is a clause in Gourcuff's contract which we negotiated a long time about this summer," said Galliani. "I hope he comes back to Milan and plays in our shirt.

"Still, he needs to know that if he does come back, he will have competition from Pirlo, Gattuso, Flamini, and maybe Emerson, but if we didn't have this competition we would not have won everything we managed to win."

Galliani said earlier that the player's buy-out clause is worth 15 million euros, which is certainly not a small amount for a club like Bordeaux. Still, it remains to be seen whether the player himself chooses to face the stiff competition at Milan or to stay in France and be assured of a starting place every week.
Zed.D
I think we've lost him already. Gourcuff has a bright future and Bordeaux know this. they will break the bank for him...
gal_kenny
He scored again today against toulouse
Zed.D
^^

rolleyes.gif
Darunia
I'm kind of wishing Gourcuff doesn't do as well and he comes back to Milan.. then starts playing well again sleep.gif

but it won't happen.
gal_kenny
What an awesome goal by Gourcuff....Absolutely World class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_dAWya6uiw
KillerMax
Thanks very much for the link Kenny!

This was so predictable for me, it bothers me a little. Carletto is one of the top coaches of Europe, no doubt. But he simply does not have the skill set to develop a young player. And also Galliani is not the worst transfer guru around, but throwing Gourcuff away for 15 million Euros, when his actual value right now is on par with Benzema, is a very very poor move.

Also it hurts me in particular because I was a big fan of the kid and could not believe that Milan actually signed him when they did... And now having probably lost him in this way, at the age of 22, just seems like a cruel tease from our management.

I truly hope our management do WHATEVER it takes to bring the kid back and this time actually give him some support and let him replace Seedorf like Kaka did with Rui Costa.
Zed.D
QUOTE (KillerMax @ Oct 19 2008, 12:37 AM) *
Thanks very much for the link Kenny!

This was so predictable for me, it bothers me a little. Carletto is one of the top coaches of Europe, no doubt. But he simply does not have the skill set to develop a young player. And also Galliani is not the worst transfer guru around, but throwing Gourcuff away for 15 million Euros, when his actual value right now is on par with Benzema, is a very very poor move.

Also it hurts me in particular because I was a big fan of the kid and could not believe that Milan actually signed him when they did... And now having probably lost him in this way, at the age of 22, just seems like a cruel tease from our management.

I truly hope our management do WHATEVER it takes to bring the kid back and this time actually give him some support and let him replace Seedorf like Kaka did with Rui Costa.


World class post! 100% agreed.
Zed.D
I'm very very depressed. why did we lose him so easily?? sad.gif sad.gif first of all Bordeaux will do everything to secure his signature as he's so valuable for them already. secondly, even if they can't afford to, I doubt Yoann himself will ever dare to come back. he knows no matter what, as soon as he returns he will be a bench player again. that stupid Galliani is just making it worse by warning him about the competition of fat arses like Emerson..
dst
It's sad... so disappointing! sleep.gif It's all Carlo's fault... had he been given half the chances Gilardino got he would be a vital member of the team now... he has to agree with Bordeaux to stay with them but I think he'll choose to stay there cause in Milan the XI are not chosen based on meritocracy... rolleyes.gif
han2503
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 19 2008, 02:31 AM) *
It's sad... so disappointing! sleep.gif It's all Carlo's fault... had he been given half the chances Gilardino got he would be a vital member of the team now... he has to agree with Bordeaux to stay with them but I think he'll choose to stay there cause in Milan the XI are not chosen based on meritocracy... rolleyes.gif

Totally agree with you

As for the bolded part, had he even been given the chances that Brocchi and Emerson had it would have been enough time for him, plus in all the games were Seedorf was playing way below par. But I forgot it's ok for Seedorf to walk around on the pitch and do nothing useful but as soon as Yoann used to misplace a single pass Carlo would drag his @ss out of there immediately.

But like you said yourself, our first 11 is not chosen on any type of merit a player gains but what Carlo feels comfortable with, which is an 11 that he has had fixed for the last 6 years.

Hopefully come next season Carlo will be out of the way and Galliani will do whatever he can to bring Yoann back. But I can't see this happening since he's already warning Yoann of the "stiff" competition he has from players like Puma and Ambro rolleyes.gif Which just p!sses me off to no end since Emerson should have been the one out on his @ss with Brocchi this summer instead of Yoann
morgoth
As predicted Yohann is showing his real value now that he's playing!

Carlo, throw away Gilardino and gourcuff, the next one will probably be Pato!

Oh, and Bordeaux will buy him!
Zed.D
QUOTE (morgoth @ Oct 19 2008, 09:13 PM) *
As predicted Yohann is showing his real value now that he's playing!

Carlo, throw away Gilardino and gourcuff, the next one will probably be Pato!

Oh, and Bordeaux will buy him!

Though I personally don't think the same will happen to Pato, at least a big team will buy him if he fails at Milan! that's for sure. I just want Pato to succeed as a footballer. it better be at Milan, but if he's destined to be Carlo's second victim, then I don't care if I see him on the top of football with another team, like Madrid.
Bluesummers
easy everybody. Gourcuff has till april to decide and who says carlo is here next season. I think whether he wins scudetto or not hes out. Milan are on the verge of signing gullit which only means one thing. Either van basten or rijkaard is our headcoach next season. Furthemore zenit aswell as cameroon/nigeria and italy are all tracking carlo which to me sounds like something is going on behind the scenes. This is his last season and if he leaves winning the scudetto, well that is only better for him. It is clear silvio wants him gone and he has said it even in public and to the press.

Gourcuff/pato/cardaccio/viudez, these players will rot at milan unless we have someone else at the helm. Emerson ambro/gattuso are good but should be given less time. The only coach on earth who would rather use old talent instead of young is carlo and it has been succcessful but i think we need rijkaard.
drucurl
Keep in mind that Gourcuff's exploits have been in the ultra defensive French league and vs footballing powerhouses in the national team dry.gif

I am a big Ancelotti fan and I won't hide it. I also am yearning to see Yohan in red and black once more but to castigate Carlo so much for his departure may be a bit unfair. To be fair to Ancelotti yohan DID play a lot of crap here despite his obvious talent....but then again I suppose to be fair to Yohan, he couldn't have done any worse than Brocchi or Emerson. Here's to hoping he returns and it all works out cool.gif
Panama Devil
QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 13 2008, 11:41 AM) *
How long do you think Seedorf has left in him Jack? He's 32 now, by the time Yoann returns next season he'll hit 33. You can't expect him to be anything more then a rotation player by then.

@ Panama Devil, we play tons of games in one season, healthy competition in the squad will keep players performing to their best, unlike what's been happening these last 2 years when there was only, Pirlo, Rino, Ambro and Seedorf, while always having their place on the team assured. Players should be rotated, but unforunetly Carlo doesn't really understand that simple concept. He's stubborn and has been sticking to his same 4 midfielders since his first season with Milan. Unfortunately for him, those players have either become too lazy to even try or too tired to play in every single matcj because age is cathing up to them.

Seedorf doesn't want the bench? Would you rather have an enthusiastic young player like Yoann in the midfield that is ready to give his all, or a Seedorf who jogs around without giving a cr@p about what happens in the match? Ambro, is not good enough compared to the other defensive mids we hape, he doesn't have Rino's drive and passion, or Flamini's energy and smarts. The only think he has going for him is the fact that he can score the odd header here and there.

And our midfield looks crowded because we have way too many defensive mids then any team would ever need. We need another creative central mid. We only have Pirlo and Seedorf. And if one of them goes down we have to play with the 2 defensive mids and that just brings up a whole bunch of other issues. Plus if Seedorf for some reason gets injured before Pirlo returns we would be screwed, Carlo might start ****** off at the idea of playing multiple games with Ambro, Flamini, Rno, but we would be royally screwed if that happened

@gal_kenny, in theory that's a brilliant plan of how to handle you squad, but we all know Carlo doesn't like to play with anyone other then his usual first team line-up that's why we've been struggling ever since these players have hit a snag, becuase we're not continuing to build, and Carlo is still stuck in 04


True, true and true.

I didn't meant, in any way, that we shouldn't have him. He is the best replacement we can get right now for Seedorf. As a matter of fact, if you look at my posts during this last 15 months, you'll see that I never wanted Gourcuff to leave and I kept saying that he's brilliant.

The problem here is that Ancelotti has been managing a team with no rotation. Remember a guy called "Rivaldo"?

What I mean is that I'd rather have a team that fights than a team full of unhappy golden ball winners or soon to be winners.

I'd really like to know if besides of the time they're injured, Gattuso, Pirlo and Seedorf are willing to sit to give space to Flamini and Gourcuff. We all know Ambrosini doesn't complain (but he will become the team captain next season). Plus, we don't know if Flamini or Gourcuff begin feeling unhappy about sharing all that time.

This is the issue ... not that I don't want these guys here.

In a certain way Ancelotti has been lucky so far because he has been able to play Seedorf, Ambrosini and Flamini because Pirlo and Gattuso have been injured.

I'd like to see what is he gonna do when they are all back??????

I don't care for "Puma", I think he already understood his role.

I have another question in my head: I have no doubt about Pirlo's skill but I keep asking myself if he will break the chemistry the team is achieving so far ??? I really hope not.

Little by little we are becoming a team with a faster pace on the field!!!

Gourcuff would only make it even BETTER!!!!!!!
Panama Devil
Another thing:

I'd really like to see true Ronaldo "R9" in the rossonero shirt ONE MORE TIME.

If he ever regains his fitness it would really be great to see him back in our squad. Just imagine that we have R80, R99, K22 and P7 on the pitch at the same time.

My near future dream:

....................Abbiati

Zambrotta...Nesta...Senderos...Janku

............Pirlo........Gourcuff

...Kaká..............................Dinho

..............Pato.....Ronaldo

At least for a couple of games!!!!!!!

R9 loves Ancelotti as a coach and I think he'll be willing to come back. RoKaPaRo ATTACK!!!!!
KingKaka
i think our real problam of our defence maldini's last year not much left in nesta we need to look at this department before our midfield or attack we need a top class defender next summer that should be first
dst
QUOTE (drucurl @ Oct 20 2008, 12:11 AM) *
Keep in mind that Gourcuff's exploits have been in the ultra defensive French league and vs footballing powerhouses in the national team dry.gif

I am a big Ancelotti fan and I won't hide it. I also am yearning to see Yohan in red and black once more but to castigate Carlo so much for his departure may be a bit unfair. To be fair to Ancelotti yohan DID play a lot of crap here despite his obvious talent....but then again I suppose to be fair to Yohan, he couldn't have done any worse than Brocchi or Emerson. Here's to hoping he returns and it all works out cool.gif

That's the point exactly. Nobody says Gourcuff would rock Serie A if he was here now but he was judged unfairly. He was nervous cause he knew that if he did not have a good game (and sometimes even if he did) he would still be benched. He was thrown on in games when we were trailing and Brocchi/Emerson were picked ahead of him (in a semi-attacking role) when it's obvious that they do not even deserve a place in Milan's squad...

As soon as we knew Carlo would stay, Yoann had to go cause he simply would not play under Ancelotti. But if we lose him for 15m I'm going to laugh very hard at Galliani when Bordeaux cash in on him!

QUOTE (Panama Devil @ Oct 20 2008, 05:51 AM) *
I'd really like to see true Ronaldo "R9" in the rossonero shirt ONE MORE TIME.

As much as I like the guy I think he's exactly what we do not need.
Ry4n
Guys calm down lol its not even January and we are talking about losing a player, im sure he will come back he didnt leave on bad terms it was just the issue of game time if we negotiate a good number of games he has to start in over a period of the season im sure he'll come back imo this could well be Seedorfs last season and what better way of changing the guard with Gourcuff.
KillerMax
I don't think this is Seedorf's last season at all... He will be here for a while. Unless maybe we get a new coach next season...
Zed.D
QUOTE (rhy_A4 @ Oct 20 2008, 08:38 PM) *
Guys calm down lol its not even January and we are talking about losing a player, im sure he will come back he didnt leave on bad terms it was just the issue of game time if we negotiate a good number of games he has to start in over a period of the season im sure he'll come back imo


I hope so. 100% agreed.

QUOTE
this could well be Seedorfs last season


0% agreed sad.gif how can you even think of this being Seedorf's last season? biggrin.gif he will be here at least for 3 more seasons if you ask me!!
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