agree with u max... gourcuff should have been given more chances to play to help him develop into a better player.. what a waste of talent if he goes...

No, I think that Gourcuff did not last in a high pressure environment like Milan. I think Pato will succeed in Milan like Kaka did. It's not about not playing Gourcuff. He flopped at Milan... his passes were just poor and everything else. We have plenty of new talent in the squad that can handle the pressure.

Gourcuff is like Gilardino. He did have his chances but he could not wear the Milan shirt and produce solid performances with it.

He was FANTASTIC in his first 6 games or so when he was given some serious playing time. And then Ancelotti just dropped him because he didn't wanna rotate or bench any of his starting 11 players. Sometimes Gourcuff didn't play for a whole month... That's not developing a player... That's not buckling under pressure... That's just bad coaching. Of course he started playing bad after that.

agreed. there were COUNTLESS times when we were absolutely impotent up in attack and Carlo would sub Brocchi on leaving Gourcuff warming up. Almost everyone in the forum would curse Carlo in the match threads for doing so. We all saw the mismanaging of Gourcuff before our eyes, and discussed it every time it happened. When he would get subbed on finally, it was usually in one of those matches we showed no signs of winning..and he would come on in the 80+ minute, with no continuity or confidence (because Carlo never showed him any real faith) and he wouldn't really add anything MORE to the team that was already playing poorly. Plus, when he did come on, he rarely was passed the ball. That is not Gourcuff's fault, nor should it be considered him FLOPPING.

A player that needs development should be integrated into the team during games that we are winning where he can come into the game when the team is playing well, therefore he'll feel confident, and the team will actually give him the ball. And then, as he finds consistency, sub him on in more important matches..and if he continues the good play, then start using him as a weapon..There were lots of times that Yoann came in while we were playing well and played well himself! See Us vs. Sampdoria (5-0), and i remember another game we were winning by a lot he came on and provided a nice assist for a headed goal.

Look at how nicely, (SAD TO SAY) Mario Balotelli was introduced to Inter's line up...or how Wenger developed Fabregas for a few seasons..he showed faith in him even when he didn't turn in game winning performances..

If we don't get him back, it will be a sad day, and something we can definitely place on a list of Carlo's blemishes, alongside his misplaced faith in Brocchi..

hE had plenty of chances, just like Gilardino. In fact I would say he had too many chances. This isn't bad coaching. It's simply a player not performing up to par. I wondered why Gilardino was fielded as many times as he was. I can't agree with you here. Gourcuff was given more than enough chances!

Sure.

It's not about the number of chances. it's about giving that certain player a chance in the right place and at the right time! I do remember some very stupid substitutions by Carlo, like the Celtic one... he simply smashed Gourcuff up that night by his wrong decision to play him in such atmosphere. Yoann tried to stop the ball from crossing the line and in the end made sure the ball would go in safely, later filled the offside very badly for Celtic players to score the 2nd goal... after that night Gourcuff never played well again. let's remember Gourcuff was no Kaka, he couldn't have made his way to the starting XI like Ricky, benching one great player or two on the way. Gourcuff needed help and attention from the coach and Carlo just kept giving him bad opportunities where we were either losing or the players simply didn't care to play football.

Very true, zd. You bring up a guy and ask him to turn the match around when 10 minutes are left on the clock? Start an army of DMs when all your creative players are out injured? Yeah, that's the truth. This current Milan is not the place for youngsters.

Guys, don't forget that after that bright run, Yoann broke a rib and was out about a month. I know a lot of you like him - and he did apparently do well in the France game, for which I am glad - but an injury like that could have done something to his confidence. So I don't think it's necessarily ALL Ancelotti's fault.

He was great the other night! Unexpectedly good!

Considering how fragile his confidence always was, I wouldn't rule that out; an injury shouldn't do anything to a players confidence [but his physical fitness] but with Yoann you can never tell... but Yoann was with us for two seasons. that injury happened pretty much in his first months with us. I can't work that out...

Welcome back

if not else, he must get another chance...

are you serious Gourcuff barely got any chances

He had plenty of chances. And then a few months after being with us, he injured himself and his confidence took a nosedive. His games after that were just poor.

Games? It was personal vendetta after that, between him and Carlo. Just like the one the coach had with Simic. Ancelotti may be a very good coach, but he sure has an elitist attitude going. If someone falls from his eyes, good luck with climbing back up. He never got the deserved chance, attitude problems aside. We'll see how he fares in the French league, which to be honest he's started well.

If it can include anyone and everyone including Pato, Gorcuff was a nobody compared to the Brazilian.

I can't find all the stats for how many minutes Gourcuff played. But I do think starts is a good way to indicate how many chances you have, coming off the bench is hardly a chance!

In two seasons in Milan, Gourcuff started 9 games. That's 9 out of 76 games! He made 23 substitute appearances, but even including the substitute appearances he hasn't even played close to 50% of the games.

Why do people think Pato is being excluded? He didn't start against Bologna but...?

^^ Gosh, Kurt. That's interesting. Then I saw 2 of those 9 games because he started both games I attended at the San Siro in 2006-7.

76, and these are not including Europe, Copa, and friendly matches. The Frenchman must have ticked Carlo off bad.


It's not that. There was a bit of a patch last season when he was deliberately benched. Ask zd about that. Sure Inzaghi was in fine form then, but this still doesn't mean that Pato had to be relegated to the seat when we had all those problems in attack. Not scoring goals, but still no sign of him.

And oh, just for the record I just took an example of Pato, seeing as he's a youngster like Gorcuff. Not always a bad thing, but Carlo would happily bench anyone this side of Kaladze, Seedorf, and Brocchi. That's just how he likes to do things. Maybe Gorcuff brought his own shares of troubles, but it still felt really weird at that time not seeing him when goals were not coming by and we were losing matches here and there.

I still remember tons of forum posts (here at Milanfan and other forums) hoping that Gorcuff would get a chance, so there you have it Giancarlo. At least, Gila was consistently started and given a run or two.

Gosh. I must be the only one not having a problem with Pippo having started those games at the end of the season. I think the most in form players should be played and Pippo was definitely in form at the time.

Why not start both Tennie? Considering we didn't do all that well in some of those matches (even though Pippo was on a goalscoring spree), we could have used all the help we could find. Pato doesn't have a birthright to start every match, yes, but once we had him back from injury, why waste a talent on the bench for a stretch of matches, when he could be better used on the pitch?

Pato is not the point here, of course. Point is Carlo and his benching of talent. Or in simpler words, his stubbornness. Which takes away his gloss somewhat, what with him being one of the best tactical minds around.

Its not always about those that are in form..Everybody has to play..I understand why Inzaghi had to play all those games at the end of the season but everybody has to play in order to be in form..I think that this team should be really rotated well..Every single person should play a minimum of 14-15 games this season but that's Carlo's problem..Back to Gourcuff..I'm pretty sure seedorf would soon leave or put on the bench..Gourcuff should come back quick cuz he's a faster and a more motivated version of seedorf

Carlo can be wrong about benching youngsters sometimes. I will always remember how he benched Pato for no reason (except for Pippo's good run - but we could have played with TWO on form strikers instead of one...) towards the end of the season, but on the last matchday it was Pato, ironically, who came off the bench on 45th minute, scored 2 minutes later, made as assist for Inzaghi, hit the crossbar once, and did some other good things in just 45 minutes to help stop a huge embarrassment. Udinese were leading 0-1 at the half time and Pippo was a starter. regardless of what Fiorentina was doing in the other game, we should've won our last home game and NOTHING in the 1st half indicated that we were doing so.

Of course no one mentions these things... people just say how overrated Pato is.

Gourcuff is not faster than Seedorf. Gourcuff is more similar to Zidane. Skillful and great vision. Seedorf is more powerfull, can hold onto the ball like no other and has a great shot.

Haven't heard that one a lot. But I agree 100% on that Carletto is playing with Pato's confidence. He is such an irritating coach when it comes to these matters.

I've heard more than enough.

Stop blaming Carlo for Pato's problems. Pato even played well in the last game of the season.

The guy who screwed with his confidence was none other than Dunga. Seriously. Stop blaming Carlo. He's played him still nonetheless.

Dunga just dropped him completely and attacked the kid's confidence.

Pato should have never went to the Olympics.

He's way over-rated. We should have gave him to Arsenal + £15m for Adebayor.

I do think Carlo made some bad decisions regarding Pato last season. In the last 6 games of the season, he only appeared in 4. He only played 126 minutes in these 4 games yet scored 2 goals and made an assist, I just don't get why Carlo dropped him. People will argue Inzaghi did well, but Pippo only got his chances because Pato was unnecessarily dropped.

Remember when Pato hurt his leg and was out for some games? Yes that doesn't explain some of his absences... but he was often used as a second half substitute as well.

Who are you referring to? I don't blame Carlo because I personally think Pato had a great 1st season... as for Dunga I completely agree, that stinking piece of horsesh1t.



Yeah, tell me Kurt, how many goals do you predict he will score this season

To play Pippo was the right decision as he was on form and I don't deny that. to drop Pato in favor of Pippo was wrong IMO. Carlo needs to be more brave and abandon the Christmas tree formation, which only results in CL, for a more attacking formation in the league, with two strikers up front. how many times should we fail before he understands that



That was at the beginning of the new year! these droppings happened at the last matchdays, when he was reportedly suffering from a mysterious injury...

Jep. That was the time. And we all know how mysterious these mysterious injuries can be. Just ask Dida, ha!

@ kurt, Pato was dropped because Pippo was going through his good batch of form, and because of Carlo's stubborn streak he kept with the 1 striker system instead of going back to the 4-3-1-2 to accomodate both players. We all know that had Pato been playing he would still have scored the ammoun Pippo scored because the service Kaka was providing the striker no matter who it was was going to score, no one could miss the chances that Kaka made for the strikers during the last few months.

But we all know Carlo will always go with the older player and will never choose a younger one over him.

As for the Gourcuff situation, personally I'm still a firm believer that there was peronsal problems involved and that Carlo never really liked him. There has to be a reason why Brocchi and Puma got the nod ahead of him when we were in desperite for a goal in games and he still refused to play Yoann.

I think he'll get about 12 league goals, anymore than that will surprise me. He won't be top scorer though.

As for Gourcuff.. I don't think he'll ever make it at Milan, partly to do with him seeming to have confidence issues, partly because he just won't get his chances under Carlo.

Pippo was scoring 2 goals a game toward the end of the season. I see no reason why HE should've been dropped.

Ah, but the reason Pippo was even getting a chance was because an in form Pato was dropped. I'm all for Pippo playing if he's doing well.. but Pato was also doing well, so it's very unfair to drop him. Maybe we're expecting too much from Carlo. Maybe he thinks Milan need 3 DMs and only 1 striker against inferior teams.

Carlo and Milan will part ways at the end of the season (I hope) and Gourcy will become confident if he keeps getting called up and playing well for Les Blues.

Maybe? I thought we were over this by now. Carlo loves his DMs and defensive formations to death. FACT.

Which is why we will not win another league title until he is gone.

Mancini's Inter never played attacking football but anyway...
So you have given up on the league? This is a startling point... I mean... why don't you have some faith? I'm not asking you to believe in Milan dominating but it's not that we're miles behind in quality so why be negative?

No they didn't play attacking football. But that's not the problem, the problem is that we only play defensive football.

I just can't see us doing anything, I thought with all the strikers and attacking players we had Carlo would change back to the 4-3-1-2 or something, but that's asking too much from him. We're going to continually struggle to break teams down at home, and our defense is far from good enough right now, so we're going to struggle to do all too well at the back.

Forgive me for being negative, but I'm not seen Milan care about doing anything in Serie A for over 2 years, we just have no ambition and play like we don't care, it's all very depressing.

But did we not play with an all-attacking formation against Bologna?

If anything, I think the players are the ones that do not seem to care too much.

I'm not sure we can point fingers at the players just yet. The full squad hasn't all been in the same place at the same time for long stretches and with all the new additions, there's a simple lack of familiarity - they're not used to playing together. Give it another couple of games before we start demanding heads.

True. His tactics work in Europe because there is a change of style and skill in the opposition, plus they come out and play attacking and try to score. Very much unlike Serie A teams, who ask Milan to come forward so they can counter.

Carlo is a good Europe and knockout games coach, but an average league one.

I think we will win another league with Ancelotti and I think there is way too much bashing going on here. I think Carlo will do fine and will win us the domestic title. He's done it before.

Abbiati; Zambrotta, Maldini, Kaladze, Jankulovski; Flamini, Pirlo, Ambrosini; Seedorf, Ronaldinho; Inzaghi.

That's very defensive. A team needs to have at least 4/5 attacking players, or players with the ability to really attack. We have about 2 and a half in that lineup.

I think the reason it was as defensive as it was is because the defense ...well, has Kaladze in it. If our cb pairing were more solid, then there'd probably only be a need for one DM.

For what it's worth, Zambrotta got forward rather a lot in the Bologna game and provided some very nice crosses. So he could be considered attacking after a fashion.

I don't think that's defensive. It's not attacking either. Anyway, in the second half with the changes we were more attacking... if only the guy in your sig had not forgotten how to score a goal...

Not defensive? Come on. Most of football today is 4-4-2 or the new 4-2-3-1/4-1-2-3 kinda formation. Most teams play with at least 2 or 3 out and out attacking players, backed up with an attack midfielder or 2. So that's 4 or 5 very attack minded players. Unless you mean it's not defensive for Carlo..

Come on, that was a good save, had that been Pato, Pippo, Ronnie or Kaka' that's what everyone would be saying.

Carlo is a defensive-minded coach IMO. 4-3-2-1, his favorite formation, is as defensive as you can get. especially when you think last season one of those '2' was Seedorf who is not an attacker, but a midfielder, and two of those '3' were defensive midfielders. I think it's something like this:




red = attackers
orange = midfielders who can attack - but not as efficient as an attacker
brown = players who have little influence in attack, if any
black = players who don't have any influence in attack at all




Not to mention our full backs couldn't contribute much to attack last season. Janku was usually out injured [when Maldini played in the left he did good IMO] and Oddo couldn't really make many decent crosses.

So, it's only two out and out attackers while like Kurt said many teams have at least three, some even four, and at the same time they don't field more than one defensive midfielder.

I personally think as long as Carlo insists on using this mainly useless formation (yes, useless!! except for some CL games) we won't succeed. simple as that!! how he and Galliani always nagged about being unable to "unlock the small teams' defenses who come to San Siro and close themselves up" is beyond me. they should've first took a look at their own team's lineup and formation...