i thought Diavolino was in my camp

Gonna respectfully disagree,

He's stressed out and so is everyone in the squad. So perhaps this break will do him some good. Its not like he decided to get up and go to brazil, I'm sure Galliani agreed/recommended to it.


IMO everyone in this squad needs some time to refocus and put their faith behind the coach. All we've had so far is lack of effort and discipline from the squad.

i really don't mind signing this dude

i'd love him or Eden Hazard/Pjanic/Guiherme/marquinhos/dougals costa there a hanful of players, like pato who will promise us, so long as we don't betray them, 10+ years of quality.

Diavolino accepts.

Your camp?

I agree with you...plus we don't know the whole story. He could have left Tassotti in charge.

He's done it twice, ro. Once is perhaps understandable. Twice in a month is neither understandable nor acceptable. I dont' buy the 'he's stressed and needs a break' argument either. if a month of the regular season has him jetting off to brazil then i hate to see what condition he'll be in by Christmas if he's not in the hospital.

I'm stunned that so many people are willing to shift as much blame as possible away from Leonardo. Is he in no way responsible for his own actions?

+1.

What irks me, is that it's only now that the management is being accused of not supporting the coach.

In any case, I don't think this team is as bad as our position claims. We've had a run of easy fixtures and we've sucked. It's only going to get harder from here on in.

For Leo to keep his job, it's gonna require something magical from R80. I'm still hopeful. I don't want to see Leo fired. I think it would be really sad.

I dont think having Leo at the training ground really makes that much of a difference. Like I said earlier in another post, I highly doubt he makes all the decisions; I don't think he even makes 50% of the decisions.

Galli and Tassotti alongside him form a trident coaching partnership with Leo being the figurehead. That is why I don't really blame him. He doesn't make that much of a difference to deserve the blame. Alot of his decisions come from either Tassotti during games or Galli during training. There is no f*cking I will believe that Leo actually runs all the training sessions with his ideology. If that were the case we def wouldn't see 4-3-1-2 on the field.

If I was going to blame someone I'd blame the management and the other coaches in Milan who are deemed so much to be worldclass. I guess that label was incorrect as Carlo was the only one worldclass.

he's a hard worker head coach, head scout.....
i'll give him benefit of doubt and assume he's tryna sign his own players

Just an fyi for folks who aren't watching stuff closely -- Galli isn't doing anything with the first team. He's in charge of the youth squads.

And I see no evidence of Tassotti giving input on either training or during games. I think Leo's in charge and that if there is advice offered, it probably isn't being taken.

I disagree, I think Tassotti is making alot of the decisions and Galli is advising/setting up alot of the things that are occuring.

I don't believe that Leo actually has made an impact at all on the squad as we play, look, feel the same way as carlo's milan and that is tassotti and Galli at work; not leo.

In games also you can see Tassotti and Leo talking before every sub, every decision. Its evident he's not making any decisions on his own.

Gali is the primavera coach, he advises on the development of his squad. Tassotti knows the side all to well, and should carry part of the blame if the team is not doing as it is told. But on the most part Leonardo is to blame, as he has yet to get a convincing result. Against Marsielle, probably the only positive game we played. But the rest, it is clear where the problem is. Not withstanding the loss of Kaka, we just don't have any personality anymore. We go on the field and dont do enough while still conceding ridiculous goals.

I was one who really wanted a change from Carlo and his stagnated midfield. But truth be told, under Carlo we really had a personality when taking the pitch. And I think that has a lot to do with the quality of the coach that you have, if for instance we take Rijkaard, just for the sake of example, a man who has won the champions league both as a coach and player, he would automatically win over the confidence of the players as they know he is a winning coach. Hence, that would in most cases, even when the going gets tough, the team would react positively as they know they are spearheaded by a winning coach.

But having Leonardo, I mean many wanted him here. Claiming he would bring a much needed change and that he would bring youth etc etc. But what about credentials? He is a very good scout, but so far he has one of the worst records of any coach just starting out. Forget about his results against Inter/Juve/Roma, what of his results against teams like Zurich and the likes?

In closing, sure Tassotti shares a portion of the blame, but the major defect if you will is without a doubt from the rookie.

In case people have trouble with reading comprehension, I'll repeat: Galli is having nothing whatsoever to do with the first team this year. Nothing at all. He's in charge of the entire youth setup. So how he'd be telling the coach of the first team what to do when he's not even present at the training or on the bench during games is quite beyond me. (link to first team staff list) (link to club org list that has Galli as in charge of the youth team).

As for Tassotti's influence - all we know for sure is that we've seen Leonardo talking to him during games. Nobody knows for sure what has been said and what actions have been taken as a result of what's been said.

The one demonstrable change to the way things are done so far has been the training regimen. There was a lot of fuss made about this at the beginning of preseason because there was a lot of work immediately with the ball - and this new change in training was attributed at the time to Leonardo.

Now, given that fitness (ie, being in shape) is looking to be an issue of concern to the squad in general and given that fitness is something that's improved with good training, I think it's not unreasonable to conclude that these new training methods (and the lack of trainign when the coach goes on holiday) are not as effective as the ones that were used under the previous regime (and which Tassotti would be very familiar with).

So therefore I think it's only fair for me to think that Leo is responsible for some of the problems.

Galli is an advisor to the program. When Leo got hired, there were mentions that he and Tassotti alongside Leo would develop a long term program for the team. The team info means nothing because that is his job during the day, but the coach doesn't go home at 5. They stay after practice, watch videos of the team train and discuss issues, which Galli is a part of. Secondly, he is the director of youth, that means hes not coaching any specific team. He is watching over the program as a whole. Therefore, he doesn't have to be at the youth facility every minute of everyday so he has time to go to first team practices if he wishes.

In our team Galli has his UEFA Pro license and Tassotti and Togna and Leo have their UEFA A liscence, which means that Galli is the main adviser for the team and the most senior coach in this scenario. Last season when Carlo was here, Galli did not presume this job and was head of youth but this season the team's advisor is Galli alongside Tassotti and Leo.

Now with the training methods, they are obvious. Every coach likes to do different things and I'm sure because of Carlo's failure in the past they wanted to change the training style of the squad in order to achieve more success, hense the ball work because our squad is unbelievable slow on the ball.

The fitness thing I agree with and it was an amateurish mistake on all counts of the squad but I blame Togna because hes the responsible figure in this section. But these guys are well educated enough to know if Leo is making a mistake on the fitness thing and should have corrected him.


I also don't think that the coach going on holidays would make any difference with this squad. Its not training, its motivation and discpline that are the problem. We cannot train Ronaldinho or seedorf to become better, its the mental aspect that needs work. Therefore, no amount of hours spent on the training ground will do the team any good. Players who have recieved benefit from the training ground are the likes of Abate and the younger guys, which then again isn't exactly covered by Leo because hes not out there putting cones and running drills.

Also I don't doubt Leo is part of the problem, he is. He can't motivate a squad and can't handle the man management and pressure that a team like milan demands. But he cannot take the majority of the blame as the idiots surrounding him are as clueless as him right now.

Blue, you've got no proof that, aside from one announcement, Galli has anything at all to do with the first squad. Perhaps, just perhaps, things changed after that announcement. And can you please find proof (with links) that Galli is part of tactical discussions and that his presence at training is guaranteed? Because I've seen no evidence of it so for now I'm calling bull**** on those statements.

Absolving LEonardo of a lot of the fault is also being far too generous to the guy. He he shouldn't be jetting off on holiday once a month (can you name a coach in any top european league who does that?). He's the one who's setting the training - and if he's in charge maybe he's not listening to what TOgnaccini and Tassotti are telling him. Clearly the buck should stop with him, if he's a person who takes responsibility for his actions.

Personally, I am beginning to wonder if there's a degree of passive resistance going on among some of the squad and possibly some of the coaching staff. Despite public statements to the press, I don't think there's a lot of real support or confidence in Leonardo by many of the players and I'm not at all sure that there's much confidence in him by the rest of the coaching staff ---- nor do I think he's earned any. He's been unprofessional and amateurish and should have known better than to take the job. The passive resistance, imho, may be showing up in the players and assistants doing exactly what Leonardo asks of them even if they're fully aware that it's not going to work.

I'll try to find it, there were several articles on the subject of the three forming a trident when Leo first got hired back in may/june.


Don't agree with any of the bolded parts as coaching cannot be categorized with the regular definition of employment. I also don't believe that the organization has been put in Leo's hands to do whatever he wants with it. Secondly, its ironic how you can tell him to take blame for his actions when everyone else can clearly see that working with this squad is impossible. When your best player is Ronaldinho, you've got problems. He hasn't been given a fair chance to coach so I don't see how he is responsible for any of carlo's mess. If he was given the 3-5 players he asked for then fair enough, then you can call him an amatuer and a person who should have done better with the resources he had.

But he was given nothing. He asked for Fabiano, a versatile striker, he was given a box striker Huntelaar. He asked for a fullback, he was given a washed up oddo who was expected to do things. He asked for a centre back he was given Onyewu. Furthermore, he was given Roma when he asked for a proper GK and was given Di Gennaro when he asked for a Treq.

How you blame someone when they receive a squad like this is beyond me. I cannot understand your reasoning.

Well, they're not in shape. That's on Leo (which you agreed with two days ago). The tactics employed don't play to the strengths of the players at Leo's disposal (that's also on the coach). The substitutions have been questionable at times (also the coach). The coach has gone on transcontinental vacations twice in the space of 6 weeks (definitely on the coach).

Dont' forget that Ancelotti also never got the players he asked for - or got them 4 or so years after he asked for them. He was able to cobble together a squad that was at least respectable.

Yeah ofcourse fitness is on Leo but the fact that no one around him said anything is just stupid. Those around him have to advise him properly and they haven't been doing that.

The subs yes are his fault, but last time I checked carlo wasn't perfect at them either.

Vacation means nothing; so what he took a few days to brazil to relax. Its a stress full job, you would do the same if the team you were coaching is in 12th and everyone is blaming you.

Ancelotti is different


I'm sure carlo would be in the same position if he was thrown into this team with no exp and expected miracles to come true.

Actually if the team I was coaching were in 12th place and fitness was a serious concern I'd consider extra conditioning training and would probably want to lead by example by doing extra stuff.

Allright, I think i'm done aruging with you. Lets just agree to disagree on this issue.

Well, it'd be less likely to make Fishdoll twitch than if we agreed twice in the same week.

Would Fishdoll take part in any of this

Yes. Fishdoll would bite anyone who wasn't applying themselves in training. He'd do Really Bad things to people who were late to training. And then he'd go stake out a table at Hollywood, the popular Milan nightclub, to make sure nobody stayed up too late.

i thought my avatar (creepy dude to your left) hmmmmmmm
i need to come up with a new name for him...i'll be taking names if you guys have any great ideas...
i just don't think Hudič (diavolino in slovenian) is the safest way to go ...

I thought that was Diavolino's job ;D lol

Ohhhh...um...hmm...Diavolino is a little scared of the creepy dude tbh.

says the person with pee-wee herman in a bunny suit as a pic

Well, Ro's Diavolino is Chief Biter of Lazy Players. But Fishdoll would help too if it were needed!

I'm starting to think give Leo a bit more time, let him sign more players, it's still more or less Carlo's team. He hasn't been given the backing to stamp his identity on the club yet. I don't think anyone would be succesful with the (lack of) backing he's got so far.

It's Carlo's team, it's Carlo's tactics..kurtiepoo...a rather poor replica of Carlo's tactics. Carlo's tactics which even a complete novice like Bluey knows, doesn't work without the sudden pace change that Kaka used to provide. Common sense dictates that then you'd at least 'try' Pato in the Kaka position, to see if there would be a difference no?

Oh..for the record...Carlo can be argued to be still using Mourinho's team...

*baiting han*

funny, too bad I'm not a noob pirate! So go suck a fat one at the bottom of the ocean hoZer

What's a hozer?? Or did you mean dozer?

nahh, I meant HOOEEEEEEEEEZERRR

First it's not pee-wee herman, it's Fabri Fibra, and second it's not a bunny suit, it's a dog suit.

Diavolino would be happy to share the biting duties with Fishdoll. I was only teasing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBm0Bn_Tcg

Funny stuff lol

Fishdoll is not a fan of Leonardo.

While it is true that when the 4-2-1-3 mostly works - like v Cagliari - it is entertaining. Thing is the entertainment comes at the cost of sacrificing the other seven guys on the pitch (chief among them pirlo who cannot do the pretty passing any more because he is too busy being a defensive mid). it is also rigid - the team no longer seems capable of playing any other formation - and really easy to stop if you are a smart coach (ie see dechamps and the OM game. it was really effing cold at that game too.)

the other bit of fallout is that leo's one method of play comes at the cost of alienating some of the very senior guys on the squad I bet it's been a while since pippo was told to warm up, did so for 15 mins, and then got told to sit back down, for example.

Rino gave a very interesting interview yesterday afternoon - the english version should be coming out by now -and he is one very unhappy camper. pls, someone find the stuff and post in english; i am at cdg on the way home from italy and don't have time.

Fishdoll is just not sure the brief glimpses of pretty football are worth the cost.

interesting isn't it. I mean this is certainly something we are not used to... seeing the senior players benched.

Its scary yet rewarding at the same time. I think Leo is trying to get this message across:

"If you don't perform your on the bench, it doesn't matter who you are"

You can't blame Leonardo, he almost lost his job early on in the season. He's been having good results lately, and if he has to alienate some of the senior players, he will not refrain from doing so.

the formation really works for us, i believe once the defence gets better we're only gonna score and concede less.

i love the senior players but it isn't leo's fault if gattuso can't make a decent pass to save his own life+ he isn't doing so well defensively these days, he seems to only do well with a partner in DM, unfortunately the new formation needs two rigid CMs who can pass the ball well... that's why ambro keeps getting the nod ahead of him, pirlo already is one of the best passers of the ball but leo'll rather have him make more tackles(leaving him panting like he'll drop dead any minute).... the senior fellas should simply IMO professionally work towards fitting into the new set-up and meet the new manager's on-field demands rather than queue up scheduling meetings with galliani

Never have I agreed with someone more.

I don't agree entirely. I admit that as long as you're in the team you be professional and play as per requirements, but there's no point playing in a position that is not your strength.

Hence why I'd come up with the suggestion that if need be, we should sell people who can't fit into the system perfectly like Pirlo or Rino. I know they're stalwarts, but if they're not happy (can't speak for the former...coz well...he doesn't speak), we should perhaps give them what they want. Not to mention, we can find good players on the cheap who save us on the wage bill, while still helping us make profit on the transfer market with these sales.

As long as Pirlo performs the way he has for the NT, then he'll always bring in a 15million+ price tag. 20+ in these inflated times. We can get at least 12 for Rino. Now that's enough probably to get one genuine tackler CM who Leo wants.

Will management listen to what Leo wants is the question at hand though.

sell pirlo, are you out of your mind? I thought you were in love with pirlo?


Imo pirlo should not move anywhere, he give us so many options with his play that he is like the engineer of this team. Take Xavi out of barca and they'll flop, same with us.


On rino, I personally hope he doesn't get sold. He's still a solid DMF with huge loads of experience. These players like Ambro, gattuso etc need to retire with us and become part of our coaching staff.

You don't just let a player whose played with your club for almost a decade go without a fight. Especially given that he's italian too; you know he's going to stick around.

Thing is, with this new style of play, Pirlo can't make the pretty passes because he's too busy tackling and doing the typical DM stuff. His play suffers because of this play style and that's one of the things I don't like about it. I'm not convinced at all that Leo's is the right way to go, or the only possible way. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but at this point I am going to respectfully disagree with folks who are such big fans of the system. I'm just not sold yet, especially since I don't like the cost it's extracting.

Funny... I agree with you.



I personally am behind Leo because of various reasons but I am also in doubt over this system. In theory it works because we create so many oppurtunites and we can score off them. However, this system depends too much on

1) The fitness
2) Motviation
3) Performance

of the players.


If Dinho has a bad game, we have a bad game. Same with Pato. Marseille was a good example of what happens when players don't perform; we get ripped apart.


In order for this system to work successfuly, we have to score every chance we get because the other team is going to counter us hard.


We don't have a world class goalie that can save our @SS like Madrid does. We don't have a solid back line that can protect the net flawlessly like chelsea does. We don't even have a midfield that can control the game for hours like barcelona does.


Our formation and style of play works simply on tape and glue. Very dangerous and requries too many variables in order to be successful, which you ultimately want to limit.


If we don't get players in January, god help us.

Fishdoll. o O (Surely it's a sign of the Apocalypse if my person and Blue are agreeing).

I think there are other ways the fragility of the formation can be shown in addition to what's been mentioned above -- namely, if you stick a guy on Pirlo and stick another one on Seedorf, the team's passing ability is more or less nullified. That's what OM did and, well, that was just not a fun game to watch.