I don't think that you're a racist in any way, shape or form, but I do think that you let the Brazilian Samba vs Intelligent Italian football get too far into the issue. I've read comments you've made regarding this issue on many occasions, that's why I don't like how you constantly use Kaka and Pato as examples of players that are above criticism in people's eyes when you do the same thing with certain players.

As for Kaka to me being above criticism, I personally don't think that, I criticise him myself when he plays badly, case in point the Reggina game were I though he played awful. However I do also think that no matter the way he plays we need him on the pitch, we're dependant on him being there to play well.

As for Brazilian's in Milan's squad I don't think there's a lot I think we have the right amount, atm, only 3 Brazilians are starters with Dida being a long serving squad member that was here before Silvio and Galliani got a Brazilian fetish, Kaka who also was brought in as a youngster that Milan groomed. Yes we brought 2 more kids in (Mattioni and Silva) but I don't think having these players clouds the fact that we're an Italian team that has a solid core of Italian players as the backbone of the team

As for the racism accusations, you've hinted at it (and then apologized, credit where it's due). Others - and they know who they are - have flat out called me a racist. While they may not specifically be against the rules, to me such comments are completely unacceptable and in honesty I tend not to read anything else (no matter how long) these people write. If I do, I'm not likely to be favorably disposed toward it.

How very odd. I remember you saying specifically that Kaka shouldn't be criticized because of his contribution to the team (while, conversely, criticizing in BIG POSTS all the many errors of Pippo Inzaghi while ignoring HIS contributions to the team). I don't think it's a particularly balanced view. Granted, we all have players we like and players we don't (and given your many and detailed posts on the subject, it's pretty clear you don't like Pippo), but even I have commented that - for example - Beckham has done well when I was outspoken in opposition to his transfer.

I don't think Silva and Mattioni should have been bought. I think Milan should have brought in young Italian players instead. There ARE players of equivalent ability currently in Italy.

As for Milan's Italian core, that's eroding and those Italians who do regularly start are just as regularly eviscerated on this board. They're held to a very different standard - Maldini being the exception as I think there's mostly general agreement that he's above criticism - than others. To use an example, if Pato doesn't score in a game, I read that he's young, didn't get the ball from the midfield, etc etc etc. But if Pippo doesn't score, he's useless and should retire no matter how many balls he got from the midfield.

I personally don't feel it's a race issue at all for you, atleast that's the vibe I get from you, I think you wouldn't care if they come from Timbaktu and had purple skin, from the posts I've read, I get the general idea that you don't like how people percieve those 2 brands of football, which I think you are justified for thinking the way you do because there is the general oppinion (which I personally hate because I'm an Azzurri fan) that Italians are cheats and Brazilians are better and win with style. Which Imo is a close minded idea that only people who don't understand football have. But I don't let it effect the way I feel about the players that play for us when they wear the Milan shirt. I don't like mixing international football between club football because imo they are miles apart, in terms of how they are percieved both by the players themselves and people, some are more passionate about the NT while others more about their club. For example Totti (bringing him up because he plays for the team I personally support) I found it totally disrespectful the way he acted once Donadoni was appointed and then to come out and say that you may concider coming back to the Nazionale once Lippi took over again

Yes I defend Kaka when I see people that jump at the slightest mistake he makes, it's like they're waiting for him to screw up. I also am a believer that given how he's carried the team by himself ever since Sheva left we shouldn't expect him to be at 100% all the time, he's human just like you and me. But I also think that if he plays bady, he should be criticised, I do it myself when it's deserved. To me Maldini is the only player that no matter what happens I won't say an ounze against.

Silva and Mattioni... Don't know what to say to that since I agree with you, but at the end of the day these decisions are in the hands of our management who atm think it's cool to buy youngsters from South America

The fact that the Italian core in the team is eroding is another issue that lies in the management's hands. Carlo also takes responsability on this part because if the management do bring him in the talented Italian youngsters he has to be the one that utilises those players and start to groom them. As for Pippo, I think I've explained myself regarding Pippo a million times, I don't dislike him, I'm a fan and I appreciate all he's done for Milan, but I do think that his time has come to call it a day. He's 35 and he's not even a defender so his age shows more then it would on a defender like Favalli for example who most of the time plays better then players half his age. When it comes to Pippo my expectations are high and when I see him play like he did today were even the simple things he usually does flawlessly weren't even coming off I get disappointed and think that I would rather remember the Pippo of 2-3 years ago come 5 years then this other player that's currently wearing our #9 shirt

..yet again...

So, Rivaldo, I'm waiting to see match-photos! I hope someone got the "Baresi 6" banner!!!

OKAY!!!!!!-----------------

***NOTE****: Sorry everyone for grammatical mistakes or spelling errors that you may and probably will find in this post.

Its been a while since i've posted a serious and analytical post on these forums, but people generally put me in the same band as han and co.

okay lets begin :

Regarding today's game, as a fan I could not hate carlo more for putting seedorf on so long or even his inconsistent subbing methods and also his tactical output in regards to games like this where we get the lead and take off our entire attack, HOWEVER being a coach I can appreciate why he does the things he does.

Some of you say viudez should play or at least gotten sometime and seedorf should have been subbed; as a fan I agree, but as a coach I disagree. Viudez right now has not played a single serie A minute like jack pointed out. Viudez is a Uruguayan attacking midfielder (NOT A STRIKER) who would be completely lost trying to produce the kind of system of play carlo desires. He is 18 years old and putting him on in a game like this when he hasn't had serie A time is nothing more than a confidence crasher. He was on the bench in case of emergency. Seedorf, being slow and lazy, knows carlo system of play like the back of his hand and if motivated can play like a world class mid. But seedorf is seedorf and right now we dont have many options so we should be happy that we have someone like him at all in our squad.

We can point the finger at carlo all we want and say he does this and that but realistically could you think of a better system of play than the current milan plays? It may be slow in attacking and give us few oppurtunities but it is the reason why we dont get scored on 5-6 goals a game. As long as we have the likes of bonera, senderos, kaladze and some days even maldini; we cannot afford to give up possession. Look at all our games, when the opoposition touches the ball, they almost score. So right now this boring pathetic football is the best were going to get till we can get someone in the centre who can handle having pressure sent at him. Someone other than nesta.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO HAN:

TO TENNIE:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

final note: As a fan I despise carlo for his stubbornness and retarded decision making skills in regards to Serie A football. As a coach I respect the fact that he himself personally has stuck by through all the BS the management has thrown him all these years and still continues to make milan look like a world class team.

kudos the carlo the legend


PS: <3 jack

You're such a sweetheart. Muuaahh!!

You've pretty much got everything I wanted to say. I would just disagree with you on the Italian thing. I think an Italian club should have a core of Italian players. Of course an injury ravaged side is a different matter. But I mean Arsenal for instance is an English club, and last weekend I think they played 11 foreigners. They've not even acquired British citizenship.

Similarly for Inter, Santon is their only Italian right now. I think it's a little wierd. What defines a club then? Is Inter an Italian club for that matter? And if so..on what basis? On where they're registered?

But otherwise yeah..you've pretty much hit the nail on the head vis a vis Carlo and my seemingly blind devotion.

For a top class coach to do so much with so less is amazing, and I don't think the fans here or at the stadium give him the respect he deserves. Which is why in a twisted way, I'd like him to leave. You never know what you got till it's gone.

We have less than Fiorentina and Genoa who are right behind our *** in the standings..? even Juve?!

Excuse my language, but that's bullshit. there's nothing amazing about what Carlo has done in the past 2 seasons.

See this is what I mean. You've made up your mind, that we're shite just for the sake of it.I like it. I like how people still think things haven't changed.
Here's the breakdown of Serie A spendings for 2008 in Euros:

Inter: 76 MM
Genoa: 57MM
Juventus: 48.5 MM
Fiorentina: 48 MM
Roma: 44 MM
Milan: 43.5 MM

Btw...Fiorentina recuperated 4.8 MM from sales. While Milan recuperated a nice healthy 38.5MM, by getting rid of a lot of depth. Yup..this one's on Carlo too coz he didn't go on strike and give a press conference on bad omelettes...which is what a real coach would have done. That's the way to stand up for yourself, tell your existing squad that they're all bad eggs.

Btw a Milan which would have held onto Gilardino, Simic, Kuffkuff...on the off chance they might be needed (kinda like Inter with Crespo)...on hindsight with our injury list would have done really better...I think. But then it's all woulda..coulda..shoulda...

Here are the top transfers for the summer as well...
1. Amauri from Palermo to Juventus €22.8m
2. Ronaldinho from Barcelona to AC Milan €22.5m
3. Alberto Gilardino from AC Milan to Fiorentina €15m
4. Julio Baptista from Real Madrid to AS Roma €12m
5. Juan Vargas from Catania to Fiorentina €12m



Look..I really am not talking out of my hat. When I say it's not Carlo's fault, it's not some blind devotion or 'cut him some slack' thingie just for the heck of it. It's coz I honestly believe we're just sticking it to him for no reason.

More than any other coach, he's been put in the position where he has to be safe than sorry. More than any other coach in the top 3 clubs of the top 3 leagues (with the exception perhaps of Rafa and Wenger, but then those two are almost inviolate and will never be 'booed' ), he's had to skimp. But all we hear is how he should leave.

I don't get it... what's your points, should we have finished 5th and we're overachieving?

Are you sure Genoa spent that much?

My point is what Carlo is doing is precisely par for the course. Considering the existing talent in the club and the injuries we've had. He's done nothing extraordinarily good or bad.

Probably..I got it off a website I think 4-4-2.com and had stored it on my comp somewhere. . Almost all of their purchases were undisclosed deals...but their purchases for this season were as follows (checkin my database). I also don't know about the winter market...

Abdelkader Ghezzal (undisclosed, Crotone), Davide Di Gennaro (part of Marco Borriello deal, AC Milan), Francesco Modesto (Reggina), Andrea Gasbarroni (undisclosed, Parma), Salvatore Bocchetti (co-ownership, Frosinone), Giuseppe Biava (undisclosed, Palermo), Steve Pinau (undisclosed, Monaco), Sokratis Papastathopoloulos (€4m, AEK Athens), Diego Milito (undisclosed, Real Zaragoza), Davide Brivio (loan, Vicenza)


Fiorentina were:

Alberto Gilardino (€13 million, AC Milan), Stevan Jovetic (€8 million, Partizan Belgrade), Felipe Melo (€13m, Almeria), Gianluca Comotto (undisclosed, Torino), Juan Manuel Vargas ((€12m Catania), Jefferson (free, Parana), Luciano Zauri (loan, Lazio), Sergio Almiron (loan, Juventus)

I'm not even going to ask what you're source for those spendings is, because I didn't say we had spent less than those teams, but we didn't have less [quality/quantity] than them, which is more than obvious, in response to your "what Carlo is doing with so less is amazing". so less!? for god's sake. it's ridiculous to even compare Milan's squad (even with all the injuries included) to those of Fiorentina, Genoa and even Roma and Juve!! and you list their spendings for me...

I can't make any other thing out of all this except that we're used to how bad we are! we went from top of the table to 11 points behind the leaders in the space of a few months, how amazing is that. what happened to Carlo's 'master plan'... his 'assualt on the title'...?

EDIT: at some point, Juve had half of their stars out and yet they are in a better position than we are. have been for most of the season. how about that? why you think only Milan is punished by injuries? why! in my eyes, that's yet another alibi for a bad season.

Is that price for real? Wow, we really got owned in the R80 and Zambrotta deals. Strange as to why we paid that much really, considering the form they were both in as well.

The unique part about yesterday's match? It marked the first time since a match against Piacenza in May 2003 that we did not play any Brazilians.

Wondered if anyone else was going to notice that one, Miz.

Fishdoll awards 1 brownie.

Thanks!

Hopefully this continues till the end of the season! Minus Dida who should feature in UEFA Cup.

Unbelievable...

Unbelievable is nothing. I hope the management stops buying Brazilians, sell the ones they have to the highest bidder, and invest in Chinese talents. Or Mongolians, for that matter. 75% or more Italians and the remaining from some other place, besides Brazil, of course.

That will keep everyone happy, and we may as well win something for a change!

I wouldn't call having a team that is probably one of the best in Europe in all areas, from the keeper to having one of the top 3 strikers/attacking midfieldrs in the game as having so little. It's only in these last 2 seasons that we haven't had the quality we had in the past under Carlo. He is the coach that had headaches like Sheva and Pippo/Tomasson/Crespo Rui Costa/Kaka/Rivaldo or Stam/Cafu on the right or playing Stam and Nesta in the middle but still having Paolo Maldini that could either play there or on the left, I wouldn't call that so little with any stretch of the imagination. For me with all the resources he had he should have won a lot more then he actually did, let's not forget the blunders in the CL both in 04 and 05, those seasons where we should have run away with the CL and the league.

Yes these last few seasons he had to deal with an ageing squad that is more injury prone, but he still had a lot of quality in the team and does not excuse the 2 terrible seasons we've had and what looks like is going to be another repeat this season. So you think that Fiorentina have a better squad then us? Is it justified that they beet us to 4th last season, is it even justified that we've been fighting for 4th in the league these last 2 seasons? Even when Juve were not even in the league. Do you think he did well with the squad he had at his disposal? Because imo Carlo has underachieved big time at Milan, there are coaches out there who would do more with far less riches then Carlo has had at Milan

Excellent post, Han. Saved me a lot of typing!

See, I think this is just a matter of perspective, when all is said and done. Members on the other side of the argument probably see it as quite the opposite. Whatever his faults are, I, me and others here wouldn't be complaining that much if we didn't drop all those useless points, and were actually winning regularly. I won't have said a word if we were 3rd by now, had we gave it our best shot, with our best players. How he handles the young talent, his stubbornness, his insistence on playing Christmas tree, and everything else would have mattered a lot less if the results were there. Which they aren't because even though we have a talented squad, we find it hard to unlock small teams because of the way we play and our mentality, as well as lack of motivation from certain players.

I think it is safe to say that Milan is not as solid as it was in the early millennium. I believe somone on the forum said that a while ago and I agree with him/her 100%. During that time, and under Carlo's guidance, Milan dominated in every aspect of the game. It was a really strong squad with the potential to play CL and Serie A and go for top honors in both, simultaneously.

Today, Milan are an old side considering the age of the players on hand. But that doesn't mean Milan are not able to compete, in fact Milan is the most technical team in Italy at the moment. Milan has so many players in its roster that can decide and finish off a match if given the chance. Problem why Milan is not achieving is that injuries have pulled the team down a bit.

As a fan, I cheer for Milan and the reason I watch matches is because of the fondness and attachment that I have with the colors of Milan. In the bad times and the good times, of course nothing is constant or else la merda would still be fighting for 3rd place season in - season out. Hence, there comes a time when the team is not running on all twelve cylinders - just like this season.

But make no mistake, that this is a heavy weight club and will get back to winning silverware. I had this belief that this would be the season Milan would resurrect itself and win the Scudetto, but all that has some what faded away. Still, I believe this team is capable of doing more than it had done and most likely win those matches that it had lost, had Nesta been around - someone Milan has missed deeply.

All things taken into account, this club is a proud club and the turning of the tide will happen soon.

Careful, R7. You'll be tarred and feathered for daring to write something positive about the club.

That's always a given, if the good times didn't last, the bad times won't either. What matters is how soon? And with what amount of damage? Clubs run in cycles, true. The good ones and the bad.

But give me one good reason why we don't learn from our mistakes in the 80s and late 90s? Why wasn't the next generation groomed to take over from this one? Why not Darmian? Why not Paloschi? Why not other younger players? Why must we fall into the same trap, and try and get out wasting precious time and money? We can't find a tall, strong, 25 and above half decent striker from Milan? Or Italy for that matter? That means there is something wrong, because if we can't compete with other clubs and leagues in signing expensive talent, then we should grow our own.

But not for one instance do I blame you, R7, for hoping that the tide will turn. I'm with you on this, because I know it will.

It has turned once for me, hence from experience I know it will turn again.

The club learn from their mistakes ? What mistakes, you are talking about one of the most successful clubs in world football, if you have missed the bigger portion of 20+ years 'success in the making' and only tuned into these past 4 years, then obviously you'll be disappointed. But take a look at the big picture and you will know, deep down inside that this is a proud club and will bounce back again as it did before.

p.s. not directed at you acid just in general

What are we talking about, exactly?!


Towards the end of the 90s, is what I'm talking about. We did everything from missing the CL spots, to finishing 6th and 11th (was it?), losing our key players one by one, changing coaches twice a season. It was only after Carlo signed up, and we invested in our Golden Generation that things started to change. Then there was also the mistakes that resulted in the crowd booing the team under who, Sacchi, I suppose. They were disappointed enough with proceedings that they started throwing things at Paolo and Billy.

Irrespective of that, if we didn't want to learn from our mistakes, we should have learned from other clubs. We should have learned from Bayern. All I want is some semblance of sanity from the management, at least in looking forward to the future and grooming young players.


Why, of course not! Kidding. I know, I know. LOL.

@han---


I can't agree with you on several parts man. Yes when we did have the squad we did carlo should have done better but how many years did he have this squad? 4 years. These last 3 years he hasn't had the chance to get the players he wanted. When sheva left, instead of a proper sub he got oli, which was useless. The season after he got an 18 year old. Personally i would have quit right there because that is just pure BS, when your in a club like AC milan and your president is one of the richest men in the world. Secondly he has wanted an intelligent and play making midfielder and what he got instead were emerson/ a 20 year old useless cardaccio/ flamini, who is a defensive mid/ and beckham who is 33 and can last tops 60 minutes.

Look at our defence, after stam/cafu/sergio were gone who did we have left. Instead of getting a solid centre back like united did with acquiring vidic or liverpool with skrtel; We buy bonera and oddo. We lose world class players and sub them with average players. This season when we should have bought several proper defensive players, we bought zambrotta (31) who is just a quick fix; and senderos who is a arsesnal reject.

Finally, looking at our goalkeeper situation, when dida became useless, instead of buying a proper sub in the window in january we decided to field kalac! This season, who did we get to replace dida and kalac? abbiati who to be fair is playing well but when we could bought a much better goal keeper like boruc, says a lot where our team is going to go this season.

When you replace AAA quality with AA quality your going to get AA results. Hence the fact that were in uefa cup and sitting in 2nd/3rd and possibly maybe 4th.

The only player that carlo ever got in the last 3 years that what was a world class player was ronaldinho. 1 player in 3 windows; truly truly...sad.

Blaming carlo is understandable and i'm in the same boat as you as a fan but you have to admit with what we got this season, he has been doing a great job.

But we wont know until he is gone and we can truly appreciate what we lost.


I truly feel your frustration man and maybe if we had sold Kaka we would have had a better squad next season with a different coach and a new perspective on how our game is played, but we got what we got. Getting upset is not going to change a thing.

But i'm letting you know that i feel the exact same as you in regards to almost all issues you comment on. I think most of milan's fan base feels this way as well.

LOLL, Never noticed. Good eyes miz.


Imo we should try that line up again next week. I think we'll come to truly appreciate how much having a brazillian influence does on our team.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLSSSSSSSSSS

What's wrong with the goal?

My point exactly. I think we should do alright without them, besides it's only the three that matter (Kaka, Ronaldinho and Pato). Dida, fortunately for some, and unfortunately for others only plays in Europe. So I'd be all for not playing the Brazilians against Sampdoria.

Then again, who knows, it might work better, the team may respond better.

lol acid you are a legend haha. Are you being sarcastic or serious, i can no longer tell hahahahhaha

Yeah?! It seemed perfectly alright, a clean strike, and a clean goal.

In life nothing is certain acid .. I think its more like Bayern should look at Milan and learn

Look, we all want the same thing. Its just that you need to see things more rationally. Sure its easy sitting here I could draw up a brilliant plan for Milan for the next ten years, I could even argue that with my plan Milan is guaranteed at least a trophy every season. But that is not taking into account injuries to key players and I could drive Milan far into the minus that it would need financing to maintain its short term liabilities, and that is just taking things lightly. But who cares, my plan 'IMO' is destined for success because it is based on buying the best young players and having the best coach in the world winning things for my team.

Then again, you have a conservative management who have been on top of the pyramid for so many years and have seen it all. They have been through so many scenarios in managing this club than any management currently in office. And though the current years have shown Milan underachieve, it goes by the premise that in life nothing is certain.

A bit of both!

Oddly, I'd use a very different term. But that discussion has already happened more times than I care to remember and I no longer have interest in arguing the point.

perfect. I agree 100% Its just what maybe you dont see right now R7 is that for those fans who have been so used to staying on top of the chain for so many years and now have to see even inter do better than us; i can understand why the outrageous actions like whisteling at seedorf, bullets sent to hq and empty seats happen.

Personally I'm one of those frustrated fans but i can understand that things don't take 1-2 years to fix. We'll be probably be in this hole next season but we will eventually get out.

I know that you can see both sides of the arguement as well which is why you post very little negativity in response to what has happened.


Question: you must feel frustration or us losing does not have an effect on you? just wondering there is no strings attached.

Agree as a whole, but my point was not success, not a trophy a season type of thing. It was going out and putting up a solid, confident showing. I've always maintained that I won't mind 5th place again this season if we FOUGHT FOR IT. What we're doing now is not fighting, it's something else entirely. We have a scared management/coach that's afraid to try and change things, because they fear something might go wrong. Well news flash: What's gone wrong already did. This is the time to change things for the better. Part of it is because of Carlo. He's not been the same coach after Istanbul 2005 - and should have called it quits then. Because his fears have started affecting the team as a whole. Other than that, I agree with what you're trying to say.

My $0.15 cents.

Just curious. If you could swap 5 players on our team for any players in the world, which 5 would you swap. forget value etc and contracts. What would be your ideal combo.


for me i would swap

kaladze-> vidic
abbiati-> casillas
pato-> ibra
seedorf-> gerrard
janku-> daniel alves

starting line up: casillas, alves, nesta, vidic, zambro, beckham, pirlo, gerrard, kaka, dinho, ibra


Everyone feel to respond to this as well. I would like to know what kind team everyone on this forum would field and what play style they are interested in.

Of course I feel frustrated .. But the amount of negativity on this forum cancels it out in a matter of seconds. You just go through the match threads Blue, and count the number of negative posts. Not one player is spared, the coach has been painted as the main culprit and if those two arguments get old, the negativity is directed to those in the administration. That's the main reason why I don't post negative posts, its because I know Milan are better than the way posters on here paint them to be.

We are all frustrated, me Tennie, LaPalma, Jack, Kurt, dst, Max, acid, you, ... We all have our own ideas of how the team should play and how the management should act. And this is a forum, where each can say whatever he/she wants and can defend his or her opinion freely.

It's just that it has gotten to the point that there is basically no rational in posting negative posts. The coach is considered clueless, the players are too old and the management apparently is satisfied with the team underachieving

+1.

That is more than 15 cents acid, that is more like the treasure chest that Jack has been looking for watch out



Carlo is not afraid, Carlo resurrected Istanbul in Athena. He gave Benitez the tactical game that he had played on him two years prior. An afraid coach would have left after Istanbul.

90% of the matches Milan have played so far, Milan have dominated in terms of possession and outplayed the opposition. You yourself stated that had Milan won those games that it had drawn and lost, you wouldn't be pointing the finger .. So in reality, its not the coach, its the makeshift defense that Milan has atm.

Oh i see. Yeah i used to do that as well with negative match game comments but i guess i feel the same as you. But what can you do, the voices on these forums are no different than most of the voices in milan and most of the voices of our club's fan base.

i think most people think this way: We are tired of under achieving and we want it fixed right now! Through whatever means necessary.

Piranha might have to consider letting you out of the tank, R7.

I don't think the majority feel that way. Not in those terms at least. The entire world isn't an instant gratification society.

I was just talking in terms of our fan base. The whisteling at seedorf this weekend, the constant boos and arguements with carlo show that most fans are frustrated and have had enough.

Most? How do you know that? Did you count how many of the season ticket holders whistled? Did you conduct a poll? Do you have any proof? Constant arguments with Ancelotti? Who? Where?

It seems clear that it's what you yourself think but there's no actual evidence that the vast majority of Milan fans agree with you.

But of course they will make it clear that they are not satisfied with being 3rd place in the league. Of course they are not satisfied with UEFA cup football after lifting the CL 7 times. But does it happen every game ? No, hence polarizing two or three incidents really doesn't serve the purpose of the argument, because for the majority of the season they have been very very supportive.

Yeah, that's why I put the 'Unsure' smiley up there. I hate that Pirate!

Take a look at all the milan forums out there. Red black, milanmania, milanfan and others aswell. Take a look at our game attendance. Take a look at the whistels and boos that are in our home games. Take a look at the bullets sent to milan hq and the riots in streets.


Most is an undefined number that is over 50%. You can be literal and demand actual numbers but that does not take away from the fact that milan fans are not happy. Theres a reason why theres butchering of carlo and the squad week in and week out.