I always thought the rule was "If a part of your body that can play the ball is in an offside position, you're offside". And since you can play the ball with your head..

It doesn't matter anyways. In my opinion the Argies foot in on the 6-yard line, while Pato's is over it. Meaning offside.

I'm with Zd and Gian on this one. The only goal that could have changed the outcome of the match, and they disallowed it. Argentina? It's got more to do with their loser mentality (much like the merda) than being losers themselves. They'd not produce guys like Messi, Zanetti, Ayala, and more if they were losers. But they can't changed their losers thinking, and arrogance when they win something.

You shouldn't defend the Argies, dst. They're not worth it. Quote me on this. I know you don't much like the Brazilian variety of football (and what they did today wasn't anything special), but the Argentinians can be worse. If you follow South American football that is. They play beautiful football sometimes, but that's just about it.

Offside or not. Handball or otherwise. Both Brazil and Italy are out and that's what matters. Unfortunately.

So, what do you think about Pato's goal? (I'm sure Aguero hit the ball with his hand. don't know whether or not the rules say that is handball...)


They've been losers for the past 15 years or so. from the time I started watching football as a kid they've been losing!! especially their World Cup failures are laughable for a team so full of talented footballers.

The only way they can win a World Cup again is if Messi pull a Maradona. we'll see in 2010...


You've stolen my words!

+1 and thank you.



Their first team are a bunch of losers. sorry if I use this words again and again, but that's what I honestly believe they are. their U23 or U18 teams though are good. that's why they only win these kinds of tournaments. last years in Canada and this years in China.

I don't know... it doesn't matter anymore. Brazil will come back in 2010 and Argentina will do what they do best in World Cups...

I just hope Dunga is kicked out asap. c'era una volta Scolari...

The fish doll offers poor, despondent zd a cookie.

The Argies had to win one eventually, I guess. Ahwell.

(Go Nigeria!)

The fish doll has been acting a little 'fishy' lately. I'm actually about as much despondent (if not more) over the Brazil loss as zd. Where's my cookie?

Just kidding.


Cheer up, young man. It was a kids game, after all with a couple of grown ups for company. The real Argentine side gets their backsides kicked by the Brazil-B team comprising of guys like Baptista and friends. It's all well.

The only good thing to come out of this match was me changing my signature. Right now, Dunga tops my shtick list, with Galliani in a distance second place. I can only hope they change the coach and soon.

I'm not that sad (I'd be happier if Pato could come back tomorrow though...) Pato can play in the next Olympic too. there's a good chance Brazil finally wins the gold medal with Pato.



Cool signature!


(zd thanks the fish doll for cookie by the way )

It was not offside? Are we looking at the same picture??
At least biased against Brazil? You must be kidding mate, you just have to be kidding...

My mistake there, I was thinking Argentina vs Germany but that was a QF not a SF.


Thank you! I was about to make a call to some doctor...


They are losers, yeah... I just can't see how a Brazil fan feels like bringing this up when Brazil have just lost 3-0 to them... sounds like difficulty to accept a humiliating defeat to me!
Arrogance? I think no team can top the Brazilians on that "sport"...

I did not do it because I should do it... I just felt they were being unfairly bashed...


Pato's goal? Man, you just posted a picture in which it's more than crystal clear that Pato's foot is closer to the goal than that of the Argie defender... (wait, are you one of the guys who could not see the white cross on Milan's away shirt? )
Aguero's goal is perfectly legal; his arm is attached to his body (edit: everyone's arm is attached to that one's body what I meant was that he has stuck it on his body) which by the rule means it's not a violation... just like Inzaghi's first goal in last year's CL final...

I'm not kidding. Brazil had many calls made against them... that were generally unfair and that goal was on-side. Yes we are looking at the same picture.



Arrogance is natural to Argentina. Take a competition that counts like the Copa America. 3-0 2nd string Brazil winning against a 1st string Argentina. I don't think this "olympic" competition really matters for anything.



No and No. Pato's goal was onside, and Aguero's goal was a hand ball (hmm argentina seems to be famous for that).

I won't reply, you are 100% biased.

Okay cool.

You too.

rules are rules, if the belgium defence was that bad that it made 4 clear fouls in the box (rossi rounded the keeper to tap it in and he CLEARLY tripped him from behind which would have been a red and and a penalty) then it's 4 penalties that should be given.

also some stupid ******* belgium player threw the ball in the Gker's face and got away with it so he apparently punched him LOL not like that was the right thing to do so he got red carded

Naughty word removed.

Yeah yeah whatever!

Their feet are exactly on the line. Pato's foot is not on the ground, that's why it looks like it's closer to goal. even it if was closer, how many centimeters is that? 2 or 3. when I was watching the game live I told to myself it was not offside. when they showed the reply my opinion just got stronger. I still think they could've allowed it.

Aguero's goal? he clearly hit the ball with his arm (not where the arm reaches the shoulder (Inzaghi's goal) - he scored with his arm!). I'm watching the goal over and over again and there's no doubt about that. but if the rules say you can score with your arm if it's stuck to your body, then it's alright with me.

Someday the same hand will punish them for so many years of cheating.



Maybe they didn't foul 4 times in the box? I watched that game from the 60th minute and I swear I never noticed the refereeing was 'controversial'. Italian media just sensationalize things when they get eliminated...

most of the media reports that i read admitted that there was bad reffing even the belgian fans said so!

especially the rossi call, he rounded the keeper then he was tripped.

Well I was happy to see Nigeria just destroyed Belgium... they got what they deserved.

That Rossi call must have happened before the 60th minute, right? I didn't see it.

Both of my favorite teams failed to reach the final. what a shame... I hope Brazil win the Bronze medal at least. it's better than nothing...

You know the women's tournament... Brazil reached the final.

Pato's leg is over the line but anyway... even if he was onside, it does not mean Brazil were cheated. If it takes us a dozen replays and a still image to agree on it, how do you expect the linesman to call it in a split second?
It does not matter if one's a nanometer or 5 meters offside, he is offside in both cases...
Could they have allowed it? Yes. Should they? No.

The rule says that if your arm is stuck on your body then if the ball hits your arm it's not a violation... so yeah you can score that way, Aguero's goal is legal.


No way, people don't do that! Oh wait, that's what you're doing now with Brazil...

OK, dst. I surrender your're right on every count.

Like I said, you ain't gonna seduce me with your emo's. Surely not with such simple ones...

goodness gracious, dst and zd. You two are flirting all over the board! Get a room or something!

Unfortunately, the same can be said of you with regards to the Brazil national team. I respect your opinion, dst, but that isn't the best way to end a conversation, now, is it? I still see you as the most understanding and considerate member of the forum. Having said that I'm just a wee bit surprised seeing you defending the Argies against the Brazilians. And I never quite found out how the thought of Brazilian NT being arrogant came to you. You want to see arrogance, friend? I'd suggest you set aside an hour or so and visit some Argentinean forum, and see for yourself. They really hate everything else, and consider themselves the best of the lot.

Case in point: World Cup 2006. You should recall what Argentina did after they lost to the host (Germany) after that Maxi Rodriguez goal. It was full on fighting and hitting other players, just because were arrogant enough to think that they should have won that match. And what did Brazil do after their loss to the French? Yeah. Nothing. The same happens time and time again. Remember our next door neighbors, the merda? Full of Argentinean shtick heads. They started hitting Valencia after they were knocked out in the last CL. That's arrogance for you, buddy. The same I saw in Riquelme today. Being a player of his stature, he was pulling shirts of kids half his age. Quarreling our taking the throw in, when he knew the ball touched him before going out of play. The referee had to interfere.

What Brazil does can be termed as confidence. Or over-confidence, if you want to stretch things a bit. Maybe their public is a bit spoiled when they want to win each and every match. Brazil has won five world cups, went to three consecutive finals (94, 98, 2002). They have earned the right to say they are the best. That's perfectly okay if you don't like this, it's your opinion, and we should all respect it. And Goodness Gracious, I do. But terming that confidence as arrogance isn't the smartest of ideas. You want to see arrogance in an International team, see England. How they think they are the best team to win, come every World Cup. See their players. Compare them with the likes of Leonardo, Kaka, Dida, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, and who not.

What did Dida say when he lifted Milan to the top of Europe in 2003? The press termed him as being better than Buffon, the best keeper in Europe. And he replied that he thought of himself as just another average keeper. If not how'd he improve? Ditto for Ronaldinho, when he was called the best in the world a couple of years back. He said in an interview that he didn't even consider himself being the best in Barca. Cafu at one time was the best RB in the world, did he say he was. Humbleness and humility. Same for Ronaldo (the Brazilian one, thank you ). There was a time when he could have said that he was the best striker of all time, and people would have agreed. Did he? No. Sample this with C. Ronaldo, and his weekly speeches of being the best in the world. And SAF agreeing with it. That's arrogance, my friend. It's completely another thing that you take notice or not. Sometimes we are blinded by our bias, so much so that we can't see the real picture. This goes for me to. Unfortunately.

Don't take any of this as personal of course, I didn't mean it as such. I still like you and your opinions/posts the same way I did before. I just find it wired that you termed Brazil NT as arrogant and the Argentinians not so. Quote me on this, they are very sour losers. They think of the drugged one (Maradonna) as the best thing since sliced bread. Darn good role model for kids that. And it's a pity a couple of my Argentinian friends are so arrogant and obsessed with themselves that they fail to hear any other opinion. Go to any popular website or forum, and look under Argentinian news and comments. You'll get what I mean. Foul language and arrogance spilled all over the place. Some even have guts to say that they being the smaller nation (60 million) has produced better players than Brazil (with a population of over 150 million). Giancarlo is right when he terms them as arrogant. And they are. Now, I'm not saying you to change your thinking. Oh heaven, no. Just give Brazil NT a chance and see them in a different light. Even if they are a tad over-confident, they have every right to be so, because of their success at International level. But labeling them as arrogant is taking things a bit too far.

Yes, I may be wrong. And no, you don't have to agree with me.

umm the germans ar no angels, you obviously dint see borowski's gesture after he scored.

True. No one is. Plus, gestures don't mean much, do they. You should have seen the darn Argentinean coach's reaction after Riquelme scored the third goal via penalty today. It's like he won back-to-back World Cups. Twice.

That's the story of football of today, unfortunately. Gotta live with it.

ok but theres a difference between being overly jubilant (obviously the Argentine coach overreacted) and purously trying to provoke your opponent.

There is. Yes.

bte your sig is still loading... ;)

Ha! As long as people keep clicking on the link in my signature, and keep getting logged out of the forum, I'm fine with it.

^^ The sig is all Pola's idea, isn't it?

I believe I'm not biased against Brazil.
I'm not defending the Argies against anyone... I'm just trying to show you that you dislike them so badly that you turn even the slightest thing into bad. Like this:

Haven't you seen Inzaghi celebrate? Every time he scores a goal (sometimes even in friendly games) he goes crazy and you'd think he's playing in a final or that he's having multiple orgasms...
Have you ever thought of that as bad? I doubt it. But the guy celebrates the goal that seals the victory which takes his team to the final and you make it sound like he's done something wrong...


If that is arrogance then the Brazilians getting 2 red cards at the end of the game is the same...
You have got it all wrong though, I never said the Argies are not arrogant, I just said that the Brazilians are arrogant too.
That's how they are... they just like to fight, they enjoy tension and cursing and a punch in the face. Have you seen any Apertura/Clausura games? They fight like dogs, the tackles fly around and they will go for a sliding tackle even when the ball is definitely out of reach... cause that's the way they like to play. And they don't expect anything less from their opponents.
On the contrary Brazilians play hard but whenever you touch them they turn to the ref with a crying face and protest for a yellow card. Take Anderson or Silva or Leiva or Bruno. They kicked the Argentines with every chance but whenever the Argentines touched them they would ***** about it for the next couple of minutes. I can't even imagine how would one of them behave if he has taken as many kicks at Messi did.
That's why I think the Brazilians are arrogant, it's not what they say, it's their behavior on the pitch. It's the "you can't touch me" attitude, it's the way they look at their opponents with a grim on their face it's the way they play football; they like to dribble without actually doing anything productive in the game just to humiliate their opponents...


You don't earn the right to be arrogant... if you are good and you think you're God then you're arrogant, if you're not good and you think you're God then you're just stupid. If the Brazilians were not good then I would not care about their attitude I would just laugh at it...
But it is when you're at the top that you are tested... that's when you have to show humility, that's where you show if you can handle your success. Because you will not always be at the top. The Brazilians are not at the top right now yet they still think they are the best...

By the same logic, why does CR's behavior annoy you? He really is the best right now so he has earned the right to be arrogant hasn't he? Well... no!
Aren't you being biased here? The Brazilians have earned the right but CR not? The Brazilians are over-confident and he's arrogant? Come one... And you might say that the Brazilians stayed at the top for more but what if CR stayed at the top for another 2 years, would you excuse him then? No you wouldn't.


Ronaldinho is not arrogant? I repeat, it's not what you say, it's what you do... when Ronadlinho reached the top and started skipping training sessions, what was that?
Isn't it arrogance to think that you can maintain your level by going to practice whenever you feel like it? And what does that show to your teammates?


When it comes to being bad losers the Argentines are at the top... they have a billion faults among which arrogance. But it annoys me when a Brazil fan does not see that in his team and accuses other of being arrogant. It's like me being selfish and accusing some other guy of selfishness...


If I expected I'd have the same opinion as everyone else I would not still be here...

Yup. He was getting bored seeing Galliani's face day in and day out. Devised this plan right before heading out for the North Pole (not the real one guys, we have an electricity pole north of our house). Enjoying his vacations, while members here get 'accidentally' logged out by clicking on the link.

I'm sorry to spoil your fun but when I click at the link, I don't logged out...

before the last world cup they were already making and selling a jersey witht 6 stars

I'd rather not reply in detail, as it will stretch too long without much benefit for any of the parties involved. Some random thoughts:

- Ronaldinho is just about the nicest guy you'll meet. His skipping training is called unprofessionalism.
- I'm more into the Kaka or Ronaldo celebration than Inzaghi's, seeing as Pippo's may offend the fans of other teams.
- There is a fine line between arrogance and over-confidence.
- Same goes between pride and gratification.
- The younger generation of Brazil NT is different than the one I lived through (R99, Cafu, Kaka, Leo).
- Arrogance is a relative word.
- What did Brazil do when won the last Copa America defeating Argentina? Nothing.
- If they'd have won it, you should have seen the reactions.
- What did the canary guys do when they lost to France twice in World Cups? Yeah. Nothing.
- They accepted defeat, unlike their neighbors.
- I'm not Brazil's biggest fan, thank you. I'm a fan of good football.
- Obviously you dislike them enough to see the bad points.
- Same goes for me, I guess, when it comes to other teams.

No sense in beating the bush. You obviously have your own opinion of them, and I do too. So let's bury the hatchet, and here's a pitcher of ice-cold beer to get things straight. Or two pitchers.

Oh dear, have to send for Pola to recheck the code. I'm not that good with this stuff.


Is that supposed to be a bad thing? It was the fans/public who did it. And I'm sure fans of other nations do the same, though less severe. I even had a Ukrainian friend proclaiming that they'd win the 2006 World Cup because they had a God playing for them. *cough* Sheva *cough*. Fans and press do the silliest of things. It's when the players jump in that's when it gets ugly, because ultimately it's the players who've got to do the dirty work on the field.

ok dst i surrender





It was...


Oh, you definitely are.



You clearly are biased against them. CLEARLY. nothing wrong with it, just don't say you are not, because you are.


I suggest you to take a look in your dictionary for 'arrogance' because you clearly have a wrong definition of it in your mind.

What the hell has skipping trainings got to do with arrogance? you can call that over-confidence, unprofessionalism, even laziness, but not arrogance. please be fair a little... you don't even seem to know Ronaldinho. have you ever seen him outside the pitch? his relations with other people, the fans, his family, etc. I bet you haven't otherwise you wouldn't have called him arrogant, for skipping training sessions.


Any reliable links to back up that statement??


+1. plus that he's always been humble even when he was the absolute #1 (unlike some people who are #1 now and it's alright for them to be arrogant).


And what did Argies do in 2004 Copa America final when they started celebrating before the final whistle just to provoke Brazilians, but Adriano scored right at death and Argies miserably lost the game in the end?? I'm sure according to some people that was not arrogance at all (unless Brazilians were doing it )

Now y'all don't need a room like 10ie suggested, you need an octagon.

I support Brazil, since there seem to be more women from Brazil on the Hot Chicas Thread. I suppose that is as logical as reason as any...

I don't actually pay that much attention to any sport to see who's arrogant or not. Brazilians usually are, but they usually also have a reason to be that way.

I watched the Brazil-Argentina match and I think it was a classic Argentine play. Typical for them - they sleep 1/3 of the match through (but not for defensive issues), they play in all about 15 minutes of offensive football, score once or twice in that period (if it's a good day) and then pull the breaks and play with their head. I've seen them play that way countless times since 2000. It backfires mostly, but when they're "in", than they can make it through the final.

Brazil needed a better defense. They were just to green and that no-goal record made them over-confident. But this Breno guy...is he any good other then getting sent off? I mean, did you see the Oli Kahn farewell friendly match?

Breno foul

I love you, zd. Having said that, I don't necessarily think dst's wrong either. Maybe he sees somethings which we don't. Like Fillipo said, maybe they are. Maybe some of the players in the team are.

They did. Though it wasn't the official Brazil football federation, just fans and general public.


Exactly. At the very most his later night parties, ways and antics border unprofessionalism. Which is never the best of things, but arrogance it was not. According to Paolo, Maradonna was worse in his days. He's train for 5 minutes at most. If you want to call that training.


Glad you brought that up. No one is a saint, I of all people should know that. Particularly teams such as Brazil, Argentina, England, Germany, and any such successful one.

So the bronze medal match has just started. And...Jo is in attack. Pato is on the bench.

I yearn for the day Dunga is not on the bench. In fact, no where near a 100 miles of the Brazil NT. He's fallen a lot in my eyes for the stubbornness he's displayed in the past two years.

Anyone manage to find a stream for this game?

Not sure if it's a help, Mook, but MSNBC is showing it live in the US. I'll be able to watch the first half before going to work.

It's scoreless in the 23rd. Belgium have parked the bus in front of goal.

EDIT: Ronaldinho given a yellow for diving in the 26th. It didn't look like a dive to me. The Belgian player kicked him.

And Diego goal in the 27th. Brazil 1 - 0 Belgium.

Belgium are playing like Belgium. Full-time defense. At least Brazil scored a goal, and are in the lead. Fingers crossed they can build on it. And what on holy earth was Ronaldinho thinking? Hehehe.

Here you go! This one has been working fine for me, though the audio at times is a bit screechy:

Brazil vs Belgium

Goal Jo. Brazil 2 - 0 Belgium.

Goal courtesy of a nice through pass by Ronaldinho.