Based on tonight, I really can't see past Barca for that trophy.
Juve are the obvious weakest link in the semis
But the defending that both Real and Bayern have displayed in these 2 games has been truly terrible.
Full Version: [CL] Champions League 2014-15
Messi was soooo good tonight.
First 30 he was incredible, then he went quiet till the goals. And that second goal was art.
I've always been a Ronaldo man, but I'm wavering a tad right now. Both of them are miraculous but Messi has added defender-beating dribbling to his game which he didn't have to that extent before, and the second goal...well...one of the best ever, really.
Although I did think the first goal was down to Bayern losing concentration, waiting for Rizzoli to take action against Neymar and it looked like their backline just went to sleep waiting for something. It looked like he'd dived and it would have been a second yellow, which Rizzoli waved away.
Still, Neuer is the world's best goalkeeper, and it took magic to beat him. And magic it was.
I've always been a Ronaldo man, but I'm wavering a tad right now. Both of them are miraculous but Messi has added defender-beating dribbling to his game which he didn't have to that extent before, and the second goal...well...one of the best ever, really.
Although I did think the first goal was down to Bayern losing concentration, waiting for Rizzoli to take action against Neymar and it looked like their backline just went to sleep waiting for something. It looked like he'd dived and it would have been a second yellow, which Rizzoli waved away.
Still, Neuer is the world's best goalkeeper, and it took magic to beat him. And magic it was.
Yep, Messi transcended tonight, did what Ronaldo couldn't yesterday.
I'm going to go ahead and predict a Juve-Barca final. With Barca steamrolling Juve in Berlin
I'm going to go ahead and predict a Juve-Barca final. With Barca steamrolling Juve in Berlin
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 6 2015, 10:52 PM) 
Yep, Messi transcended tonight, did what Ronaldo couldn't yesterday.
I'm going to go ahead and predict a Juve-Barca final. With Barca steamrolling Juve in Berlin
I'm going to go ahead and predict a Juve-Barca final. With Barca steamrolling Juve in Berlin
Would love to see Juve in the final (if nothing else, it would help with our rankings). However, I think RM will prevail.
QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ May 6 2015, 09:58 PM)
Would love to see Juve in the final (if nothing else, it would help with our rankings). However, I think RM will prevail.
It all depends with how Juve defend, there were moments yesterday when Real got in behind them too easily and they were a bit lucky especially when Real hit the post. Thought for sure that was going in
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 6 2015, 10:15 PM)
It all depends with how Juve defend, there were moments yesterday when Real got in behind them too easily and they were a bit lucky especially when Real hit the post. Thought for sure that was going in
It's Real, han, not Cesena. It's only natural they would suffer their attacks. Even if Juve defend well, Madrid can still hurt them. They have too much potential up front.
QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 6 2015, 10:55 PM)
It's Real, han, not Cesena. It's only natural they would suffer their attacks. Even if Juve defend well, Madrid can still hurt them. They have too much potential up front.
Sure, but I think Juve are the only team left in the semis who can play an all out defensive game. It's a dangerous strategy but I can't see them keeping a clean sheet in Madrid if they don't
Well, this is a big chance for them. Allegri is know for squandering his opportunities in the second leg, now is the time to see if he learned.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 7 2015, 09:11 AM)
Sure, but I think Juve are the only team left in the semis who can play an all out defensive game. It's a dangerous strategy but I can't see them keeping a clean sheet in Madrid if they don't
Of course they should play it safe. They don't have the capacity to play an attacking game at Bernabeu when they're already going there with a lead. It's dangerous, but it's the best approach. Obviously that doesn't imply parking the bus and let Madrid do whatever they want.
I hear Pogba could be available for the second leg. That would be a huge boost for Juve.
Wrong thread.
Congrats to Juve. Totally deserved.
Kudos tio Juve, and yes, also to Allegri. Although there were some serious nail biting moments, they did what they needed to do to advance
To kurt and Danny, yes, Allegri surpassed my personal expectation of what he would achieve at Juve. But personally for me, it still does not change that he was a sh!tty coach throughout his time at Milan. His work at Juve won't change my reflection on those years
Maybe he did learn from his mistakes, and I already said that he was very smart to build on Conte's work rather than tear it down to build Juve on his own image (whatever that is). But maybe it also has to do with chemistry. For me it was never there with us. Not even when we won the title. With Juve he seems to have found a more ideal place.
To kurt and Danny, yes, Allegri surpassed my personal expectation of what he would achieve at Juve. But personally for me, it still does not change that he was a sh!tty coach throughout his time at Milan. His work at Juve won't change my reflection on those years
Maybe he did learn from his mistakes, and I already said that he was very smart to build on Conte's work rather than tear it down to build Juve on his own image (whatever that is). But maybe it also has to do with chemistry. For me it was never there with us. Not even when we won the title. With Juve he seems to have found a more ideal place.
Also, I have to say, that even though I was rooting for Juve on the surface, as I am a fan of Serie A as well and this is good for the league, on the inside I was totally green with envy and nostalgic.
The CL was once our natural stomping ground. Now, we can't even get back into it, let alone play a final or semi final. It's just so sad how far we've fallen
The CL was once our natural stomping ground. Now, we can't even get back into it, let alone play a final or semi final. It's just so sad how far we've fallen
I reluctantly congratulate Juve, they fully deserved it.
But Real are the epitome of capitalism in football failing miserably. They were absolutely awful.
Carlo has been terrible there, underachieving as he did with us.
You cannot spend what he has (around a billion I believe) and not win basically everything. And it now seems they'll win nothing.
Rotten.
As for Juve, defensively they're just so strong, they're modern catenaccio, and as a unit they're willing to die for each other and Allegri. Wouldn't be at all shocked if they win this now - while Messi, Neymar and Suarez are far better than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo, Barca struggle against defensive teams.
But Real are the epitome of capitalism in football failing miserably. They were absolutely awful.
Carlo has been terrible there, underachieving as he did with us.
You cannot spend what he has (around a billion I believe) and not win basically everything. And it now seems they'll win nothing.
Rotten.
As for Juve, defensively they're just so strong, they're modern catenaccio, and as a unit they're willing to die for each other and Allegri. Wouldn't be at all shocked if they win this now - while Messi, Neymar and Suarez are far better than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo, Barca struggle against defensive teams.
PS while Bayern gave Messi every chance to excel, nevertheless in the battle of the world's best two, Messi trounced Ronaldo.
I have to concede, right now, it's no contest. Messi's the best.
I have to concede, right now, it's no contest. Messi's the best.
Carlo terrible? Be serious.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 13 2015, 10:12 PM)
I reluctantly congratulate Juve, they fully deserved it.
But Real are the epitome of capitalism in football failing miserably. They were absolutely awful.
Carlo has been terrible there, underachieving as he did with us.
You cannot spend what he has (around a billion I believe) and not win basically everything. And it now seems they'll win nothing.
Rotten.
As for Juve, defensively they're just so strong, they're modern catenaccio, and as a unit they're willing to die for each other and Allegri. Wouldn't be at all shocked if they win this now - while Messi, Neymar and Suarez are far better than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo, Barca struggle against defensive teams.
But Real are the epitome of capitalism in football failing miserably. They were absolutely awful.
Carlo has been terrible there, underachieving as he did with us.
You cannot spend what he has (around a billion I believe) and not win basically everything. And it now seems they'll win nothing.
Rotten.
As for Juve, defensively they're just so strong, they're modern catenaccio, and as a unit they're willing to die for each other and Allegri. Wouldn't be at all shocked if they win this now - while Messi, Neymar and Suarez are far better than Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo, Barca struggle against defensive teams.
Really? You blame Carlo?
I personally blame Perez. His signings simply unbalanced the team, last season Real were much better and this was before they bought Kroos and James needlessly
Alienating and selling Di Maria was the worst mistake they've made in quite some time.
Yes, it's still not a good excuse for Carlo to be coming out of a season empty handed with that team, but the CL was a far fetched dream imo, no one will ever be able to retain that trophy. I personally just think that this is simply not his fault, I'm sure if it were up to him, he'd have much rather had kept last seasons team with only a couple of additions that were mostly peripheral. It all comes down to Real and their way of doing things. Always wanting the newest big name on the market to add to the collection of the Gollacticos. And this is not the first time that Perez ruined a perfectly well rounded side in order to add bigger and flashier names.
As for the final and Juve, I personally cannot see past Barca, I actually predicted that Juve would go through tonight based on the first leg, when I said I saw a Juve-Barca final with Barca steam rolling Juve in that one. That's what I predicted last week and what I still predict today.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 13 2015, 10:16 PM)
PS while Bayern gave Messi every chance to excel, nevertheless in the battle of the world's best two, Messi trounced Ronaldo.
I have to concede, right now, it's no contest. Messi's the best.
I have to concede, right now, it's no contest. Messi's the best.
For me this is another one of your moments where you immediately jump to a certain conclusion off of very little.
Ronaldo was simply amazing last year, having an off game here and there does not change that. Messi has been better this year, but one can arguably say that Ronaldo was better last year. This is not something that is set in stone, it depends on a lot of things. For me they're both the best two players of this generation, can't it be as simple as that?
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 13 2015, 10:28 PM)
Really? You blame Carlo?
I personally blame Perez. His signings simply unbalanced the team, last season Real were much better and this was before they bought Kroos and James needlessly
Alienating and selling Di Maria was the worst mistake they've made in quite some time.
Yes, it's still not a good excuse for Carlo to be coming out of a season empty handed with that team, but the CL was a far fetched dream imo, no one will ever be able to retain that trophy. I personally just think that this is simply not his fault, I'm sure if it were up to him, he'd have much rather had kept last seasons team with only a couple of additions that were mostly peripheral. It all comes down to Real and their way of doing things. Always wanting the newest big name on the market to add to the collection of the Gollacticos. And this is not the first time that Perez ruined a perfectly well rounded side in order to add bigger and flashier names.
I personally blame Perez. His signings simply unbalanced the team, last season Real were much better and this was before they bought Kroos and James needlessly
Alienating and selling Di Maria was the worst mistake they've made in quite some time.
Yes, it's still not a good excuse for Carlo to be coming out of a season empty handed with that team, but the CL was a far fetched dream imo, no one will ever be able to retain that trophy. I personally just think that this is simply not his fault, I'm sure if it were up to him, he'd have much rather had kept last seasons team with only a couple of additions that were mostly peripheral. It all comes down to Real and their way of doing things. Always wanting the newest big name on the market to add to the collection of the Gollacticos. And this is not the first time that Perez ruined a perfectly well rounded side in order to add bigger and flashier names.
Agreed, totally. Selling Di Maria was an asinine thing to do. Last year they found a perfect balance with Alonso, Modric and Di Maria, but Perez had to ruin everything with his egotistical decision-making. Kroos is nowhere near as good as Alonso in front of the defense, and James' signing was completely pointless. It was simply a response to Barça getting Suarez, like Bale was for Neymar last season.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 13 2015, 10:28 PM)
As for the final and Juve, I personally cannot see past Barca, I actually predicted that Juve would go through tonight based on the first leg, when I said I saw a Juve-Barca final with Barca steam rolling Juve in that one. That's what I predicted last week and what I still predict today.
Let's not jump to conclusions. It's a one-leg tie, anything can happen. In fact, if there's one team that can beat Barcelona, that's Juventus, due to their defensive solidity. A catenaccio-style approach is the best weapon to use against this Barça side, and Juve are really good at it.
QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 13 2015, 11:12 PM)
Agreed, totally. Selling Di Maria was an asinine thing to do. Last year they found a perfect balance with Alonso, Modric and Di Maria, but Perez had to ruin everything with his egotistical decision-making. Kroos is nowhere near as good as Alonso in front of the defense, and James' signing was completely pointless. It was simply a response to Barça getting Suarez, like Bale was for Neymar last season.
Let's not jump to conclusions. It's a one-leg tie, anything can happen. In fact, if there's one team that can beat Barcelona, that's Juventus, due to their defensive solidity. A catenaccio-style approach is the best weapon to use against this Barça side, and Juve are really good at it.
Let's not jump to conclusions. It's a one-leg tie, anything can happen. In fact, if there's one team that can beat Barcelona, that's Juventus, due to their defensive solidity. A catenaccio-style approach is the best weapon to use against this Barça side, and Juve are really good at it.
Agreed. Their transfer strategy is completely ridiculous. I whine about us not spending money, but even if we had bucket loads to throw around, Madrid's style is definitely not one I'd want us following
It's not about jumping to conclusions, it's simply a prediction. Of course I could be totally wrong, and I totally agree that Juve do have the capability of locking down the defence and sitting back. I personally can't see Allegri doing anything OTHER than that. That's the way he always played it with us against Barca, sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. It's all about how strong willed and focused the players are. For example, the 2-0 in the San Siro, they barely had any shots there.
Still going by these 4 games, I still say Barca will win. Unlike Real, I can see them getting in behind Juve's defence a lot more, Real looked a bit lost for ideas today, all they were doing is throwing in crosses, I get that this was mostly down to Juve sitting so deep, still Barca have a lot more players who can play intricate passes, and that's not something that I think Juve will be comfortable defending against, unlike Real's, gung ho crossing game, which was simply too easy to defend against and aside for maybe 2 or 3 times, when Real had big chances, Juve were mostly comfortable defending. Although they needed to use the ball better to get the pressure off them. They were losing it too quickly when they got it.
Also, thought Pirlo was awful
I do think Barca will win, they'll have too much for Juve.
Juve just need to stay disciplined and press. Bayern's pressing was Serie C level and gave Barca's midfield 3 and Messi way too much time on the ball.
Juve just need to stay disciplined and press. Bayern's pressing was Serie C level and gave Barca's midfield 3 and Messi way too much time on the ball.
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 13 2015, 09:28 PM)
Really? You blame Carlo?
I personally blame Perez. His signings simply unbalanced the team, last season Real were much better and this was before they bought Kroos and James needlessly
Alienating and selling Di Maria was the worst mistake they've made in quite some time.
Yes, it's still not a good excuse for Carlo to be coming out of a season empty handed with that team, but the CL was a far fetched dream imo, no one will ever be able to retain that trophy. I personally just think that this is simply not his fault, I'm sure if it were up to him, he'd have much rather had kept last seasons team with only a couple of additions that were mostly peripheral. It all comes down to Real and their way of doing things. Always wanting the newest big name on the market to add to the collection of the Gollacticos. And this is not the first time that Perez ruined a perfectly well rounded side in order to add bigger and flashier names.
As for the final and Juve, I personally cannot see past Barca, I actually predicted that Juve would go through tonight based on the first leg, when I said I saw a Juve-Barca final with Barca steam rolling Juve in that one. That's what I predicted last week and what I still predict today.
For me this is another one of your moments where you immediately jump to a certain conclusion off of very little.
Ronaldo was simply amazing last year, having an off game here and there does not change that. Messi has been better this year, but one can arguably say that Ronaldo was better last year. This is not something that is set in stone, it depends on a lot of things. For me they're both the best two players of this generation, can't it be as simple as that?
I personally blame Perez. His signings simply unbalanced the team, last season Real were much better and this was before they bought Kroos and James needlessly
Alienating and selling Di Maria was the worst mistake they've made in quite some time.
Yes, it's still not a good excuse for Carlo to be coming out of a season empty handed with that team, but the CL was a far fetched dream imo, no one will ever be able to retain that trophy. I personally just think that this is simply not his fault, I'm sure if it were up to him, he'd have much rather had kept last seasons team with only a couple of additions that were mostly peripheral. It all comes down to Real and their way of doing things. Always wanting the newest big name on the market to add to the collection of the Gollacticos. And this is not the first time that Perez ruined a perfectly well rounded side in order to add bigger and flashier names.
As for the final and Juve, I personally cannot see past Barca, I actually predicted that Juve would go through tonight based on the first leg, when I said I saw a Juve-Barca final with Barca steam rolling Juve in that one. That's what I predicted last week and what I still predict today.
For me this is another one of your moments where you immediately jump to a certain conclusion off of very little.
Ronaldo was simply amazing last year, having an off game here and there does not change that. Messi has been better this year, but one can arguably say that Ronaldo was better last year. This is not something that is set in stone, it depends on a lot of things. For me they're both the best two players of this generation, can't it be as simple as that?
I said Messi was the best right now. Which f*cking part of that do you bloody disagree with!?
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 13 2015, 09:25 PM)
Carlo terrible? Be serious.
I know this forum by and large has a w*nk fest over him, but he's been a management career underachiever with every club he's been at.
He gets a blank chequebook but at no club has he ever convincingly dominated the league or even UCL.
And with the money he's spent at every club, he should have.
QUOTE (Danny @ May 14 2015, 03:01 AM)
I know this forum by and large has a w*nk fest over him, but he's been a management career underachiever with every club he's been at.
He gets a blank chequebook but at no club has he ever convincingly dominated the league or even UCL.
And with the money he's spent at every club, he should have.
He gets a blank chequebook but at no club has he ever convincingly dominated the league or even UCL.
And with the money he's spent at every club, he should have.
He's a Milan legend. That's all I'm gonna say, because everything else regarding him I've already said countless times.
So yes, "this forum", like any forum with Red and Black, should appreciate him.
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 14 2015, 01:25 AM)
Carlo terrible? Be serious.
Memory of a goldfish
Kadus to Allegri, he fully deserves all the success he is getting this season.
He won them the CL last season, after 12 years. And then you have to take into consideration that he's competing against Barcelona for the league, not just some random team. So yeah, "terrible" is an overstretch.
Isn't it funny that the people who are so bitter towards Carlo also defend Allegri's time at Milan with their dying breaths?
Maybe we are all polarized by our bias, but to say that Carlo is terrible? Come on now. One of the best coaches in our history along with Capello and Sacchi. He went on and achieved other great things with other clubs while Milan stalled and plummeted after he left.
I always said that I believe he should have done a lot more domestically with the team he had, then again, he was competing against a Juve side with a squad that was just as great as ours with the refs in their pockets.
And to say he never dominated in the CL with any side... Really Danny? What other coach out there right now has 3 CL titles to his name? And to say he didn't dominate Europe while at Milan is also a huge oversight imo. We were the number one side based on co-efficient for a number of years under Carlo, we were the regular flag flyers for Serie A in the CL under Carlo while the others faltered
Maybe we are all polarized by our bias, but to say that Carlo is terrible? Come on now. One of the best coaches in our history along with Capello and Sacchi. He went on and achieved other great things with other clubs while Milan stalled and plummeted after he left.
I always said that I believe he should have done a lot more domestically with the team he had, then again, he was competing against a Juve side with a squad that was just as great as ours with the refs in their pockets.
And to say he never dominated in the CL with any side... Really Danny? What other coach out there right now has 3 CL titles to his name? And to say he didn't dominate Europe while at Milan is also a huge oversight imo. We were the number one side based on co-efficient for a number of years under Carlo, we were the regular flag flyers for Serie A in the CL under Carlo while the others faltered
Yep. Not to mention the amazing football we played under his coaching for the first 4-5 years. We were always fighting for the title and CL, every season. The only season when we didn't reach an objective was 05/06. In 04/05 we reached the CL final, so it can't be considered a failure. Then after 2007 the team had started degrading, players were unmotivated, our signings were poor, and the results were obvious on the pitch.
Really do think Juventus can win the Champions League..
It will be interesting to see what Allegri can do, Barca are the best at the moment, their forward line is in top form.
I think Juve have done enough for coefficients just by reaching the final, But I'd trust them to give it a go and try to fight.
I think Juve have done enough for coefficients just by reaching the final, But I'd trust them to give it a go and try to fight.
I think the first 45 will see what Juve can do if they don't concede by half time then they can snatch a 1-0 but i think they're going to score anyway from a set play ala Pirlo cross Barca's defence is woeful in set plays they hence they play with such a high line and no men on the line we all know that.
QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 14 2015, 09:59 PM)
Yep. Not to mention the amazing football we played under his coaching for the first 4-5 years. We were always fighting for the title and CL, every season. The only season when we didn't reach an objective was 05/06. In 04/05 we reached the CL final, so it can't be considered a failure. Then after 2007 the team had started degrading, players were unmotivated, our signings were poor, and the results were obvious on the pitch.
Don't think they were unmotivated just stopped buying players up to scratch.
QUOTE (Ry4n @ May 18 2015, 11:48 AM)
I think the first 45 will see what Juve can do if they don't concede by half time then they can snatch a 1-0 but i think they're going to score anyway from a set play ala Pirlo cross Barca's defence is woeful in set plays they hence they play with such a high line and no men on the line we all know that.
I think it all depends.
Juve have to be able to get set pieces before they can even start thinking about scoring from them
Also, Pirlo needs to wake up, was pretty bad in the 2nd leg vs Real. If they have any hope of keeping the ball for more than a few seconds at a time, which they couldn't do against Real - who aren't nearly as good at Barca at possession, then Pirlo needs to do better.
Anyway, the game starts at 50-50 for either side, it's a 1 legged tie so Juve have a bit more of a shot. But personally, as I already said, I can't see past Barca for this. Juve's run to the final really reminds me of Italy's to the Euros in 2012. But I think Barca will be one step too far for them, just like Spain were
Agreed. We've got the same picture in our heads; the Euro 2012 final.
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 18 2015, 02:04 PM)
Agreed. We've got the same picture in our heads; the Euro 2012 final.
Man, what a major let down that was after the performances against England and Germany. But in the end, Spain deserved it, and they were the better team
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 18 2015, 07:09 PM)
Man, what a major let down that was after the performances against England and Germany. But in the end, Spain deserved it, and they were the better team
Yes, and the difference was painfully evident. That's what I fear will happen once again. Juventus being trashed.
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 18 2015, 06:21 PM)
Yes, and the difference was painfully evident. That's what I fear will happen once again. Juventus being trashed.
Prandelli's tactical decisions and subs certainly didn't help, but yeah, there was clear gulf in quality
Ever since their come back to Serie A, I stated on this forum that Serie A needed a strong Juventus.
Further ...
After Juve vs Madrid (1st leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were at a total of 70.01 vs German 79.129 vs Spain 98.142
Post Madrid vs Juve (2nd leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were a total of 70.510 vs Germany 79.415 vs Spain 99.427
Further ...
QUOTE
Barcelona have faced nothing like Juventus - Lippi
Juventus' 1996 Champions League-winning coach Marcello Lippi believes the Bianconeri will present Barcelona with their toughest tactical proposition in some time when the two sides meet in the 2015 final in Berlin on Saturday.
Lippi, who also led Italy to World Cup glory in 2006, has told Goal that the Serie A champions have qualities that Barca have yet to face under Luis Enrique, making them something of an unknown quantity to the Catalans.
"These are the best two teams in Europe this season, but when a team gets to this point in a continental competition there are no certainties," explained Lippi. "In my opinion, Luis Enrique and his side have not faced a team so compact, sturdy and so willing to defend as Juventus.
"But the Bianconeri also know how to counter-attack with speed when they regain possession, and this could be a factor in how the game turns out. Barcelona are favourites, of course, but I don't think it will be as easy for them as many seem to think.
"The Catalans have Martians in their attack in Lionel Messi, Neymar and Luis Suarez, and that will make life very complicated for Allegri. But Juve are organised and tough, and we mustn't forget that Buffon is one of the best goalkeepers in the world. I expect a more balanced game than most seem to think it will be."
The 67-year-old added that he sees something in this Juve side that he has seen somewhere before.
"This Juve is growing similarly to my side back in the 1990s, first in Italy and then in Europe. Perhaps before long they will find themselves winning the Club World Cup just as we won the Intercontinental Cup in 1996. I would be delighted if Allegri were to win the trophy. I am not envious as they are all feelings I experienced and they are intoxicating."
And Lippi agrees that Juve have shown a flexibility in their Champions League campaign which bodes well ahead of the final.
"I have no doubt about it, just look at the things we've seen from this side. In Dortmund, for example, Juventus really took the initiative, showing superiority and a real awareness of their potential. Then against Madrid they got on top in the home leg, and while they were forced to suffer a little in the return that is normal for any side at the Bernabeu. They could even have won that game when you consider some of the chances they created.
"After three league titles, Allegri has come in and really added something. He has removed any anxieties from the squad and they have grown tactically. They now play in two different shapes without any transitional issues. This I how huge teams function.
"Luis Enrique has had a similar impact at Barcelona, and has got the best out of Suarez, Neymar and Messi while at the same time they recognise that he is the leader. We all know how the Blaugrana play, the way they use the ball so well and are hard to break down, but they have never faced a team like Juventus, who are so willing to defend so Messi and company will find it difficult
"Juve, though, must believe in themselves and take advantage of Barca's weaknesses. They must not be in awe of the opposition, and remember that all of the pressure is on Barcelona. I expect Juve to be tactically astute, and in 90 minutes anything can happen."
The former Napoli and Inter boss, who had two separate spells in charge of both Juve and the Italian national side, insists there is no set way to prepare for a final.
"Everyone has their own way to prepare for such an event. The important thing is to be focused on the goal, on the field. In a final you have to expect that there will be slight deviations to the general rules, but the only important thing is the result."
Goal.com
Juventus' 1996 Champions League-winning coach Marcello Lippi believes the Bianconeri will present Barcelona with their toughest tactical proposition in some time when the two sides meet in the 2015 final in Berlin on Saturday.
Lippi, who also led Italy to World Cup glory in 2006, has told Goal that the Serie A champions have qualities that Barca have yet to face under Luis Enrique, making them something of an unknown quantity to the Catalans.
"These are the best two teams in Europe this season, but when a team gets to this point in a continental competition there are no certainties," explained Lippi. "In my opinion, Luis Enrique and his side have not faced a team so compact, sturdy and so willing to defend as Juventus.
"But the Bianconeri also know how to counter-attack with speed when they regain possession, and this could be a factor in how the game turns out. Barcelona are favourites, of course, but I don't think it will be as easy for them as many seem to think.
"The Catalans have Martians in their attack in Lionel Messi, Neymar and Luis Suarez, and that will make life very complicated for Allegri. But Juve are organised and tough, and we mustn't forget that Buffon is one of the best goalkeepers in the world. I expect a more balanced game than most seem to think it will be."
The 67-year-old added that he sees something in this Juve side that he has seen somewhere before.
"This Juve is growing similarly to my side back in the 1990s, first in Italy and then in Europe. Perhaps before long they will find themselves winning the Club World Cup just as we won the Intercontinental Cup in 1996. I would be delighted if Allegri were to win the trophy. I am not envious as they are all feelings I experienced and they are intoxicating."
And Lippi agrees that Juve have shown a flexibility in their Champions League campaign which bodes well ahead of the final.
"I have no doubt about it, just look at the things we've seen from this side. In Dortmund, for example, Juventus really took the initiative, showing superiority and a real awareness of their potential. Then against Madrid they got on top in the home leg, and while they were forced to suffer a little in the return that is normal for any side at the Bernabeu. They could even have won that game when you consider some of the chances they created.
"After three league titles, Allegri has come in and really added something. He has removed any anxieties from the squad and they have grown tactically. They now play in two different shapes without any transitional issues. This I how huge teams function.
"Luis Enrique has had a similar impact at Barcelona, and has got the best out of Suarez, Neymar and Messi while at the same time they recognise that he is the leader. We all know how the Blaugrana play, the way they use the ball so well and are hard to break down, but they have never faced a team like Juventus, who are so willing to defend so Messi and company will find it difficult
"Juve, though, must believe in themselves and take advantage of Barca's weaknesses. They must not be in awe of the opposition, and remember that all of the pressure is on Barcelona. I expect Juve to be tactically astute, and in 90 minutes anything can happen."
The former Napoli and Inter boss, who had two separate spells in charge of both Juve and the Italian national side, insists there is no set way to prepare for a final.
"Everyone has their own way to prepare for such an event. The important thing is to be focused on the goal, on the field. In a final you have to expect that there will be slight deviations to the general rules, but the only important thing is the result."
Goal.com
After Juve vs Madrid (1st leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were at a total of 70.01 vs German 79.129 vs Spain 98.142
Post Madrid vs Juve (2nd leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were a total of 70.510 vs Germany 79.415 vs Spain 99.427
What Serie A needs is a strong Juve, Inter and Milan. Juve alone being strong while the rest of Serie A is light years behind is not a good thing imo.
Yes the co-efficient has improved this season, that's also down to Napoli and Fiorentina going into the semi's of the EL.
But for Serie A to be strong again we need those big 3 clubs to all be strong and challenge each other. Juve might have made it to the final this season, but they could just as easily not make it out of their group next year. Nothing is guaranteed as they're not a strong force like Barca, Bayern or Madrid, they need someone to actually give them some sort of a challenge on the domestic front if they want to remain competitive in Europe as well.
Also, Serie A needs it's second tier sides to improve as well
Think back to the early 00s, when you had an all Italian final and an all Italian UEFA Cup final within a short amount of years. Not to mention Serie A Clubs being regulars in the last stages of the CL.
1 fluke season is not enough
Yes the co-efficient has improved this season, that's also down to Napoli and Fiorentina going into the semi's of the EL.
But for Serie A to be strong again we need those big 3 clubs to all be strong and challenge each other. Juve might have made it to the final this season, but they could just as easily not make it out of their group next year. Nothing is guaranteed as they're not a strong force like Barca, Bayern or Madrid, they need someone to actually give them some sort of a challenge on the domestic front if they want to remain competitive in Europe as well.
Also, Serie A needs it's second tier sides to improve as well
Think back to the early 00s, when you had an all Italian final and an all Italian UEFA Cup final within a short amount of years. Not to mention Serie A Clubs being regulars in the last stages of the CL.
1 fluke season is not enough
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jun 5 2015, 02:26 PM)
After Juve vs Madrid (1st leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were at a total of 70.01 vs German 79.129 vs Spain 98.142
Post Madrid vs Juve (2nd leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were a total of 70.510 vs Germany 79.415 vs Spain 99.427
Post Madrid vs Juve (2nd leg) - Italy's European Coefficient points were a total of 70.510 vs Germany 79.415 vs Spain 99.427
I imagine Serie A might be even catching the EPL? English clubs have been awful in Europe for 2/3 years now.
Chiellini missing is huge, but the Juventus fans I know seem to think Barzagli is their best overall defender and Boucci is important to their back 4, so if Barzagli is fit and plays with Bonucci it's not the end of the World I suppose.
Imagine if Ogbonna has to play though?
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 6 2015, 12:19 PM)
I imagine Serie A might be even catching the EPL? English clubs have been awful in Europe for 2/3 years now.
Chiellini missing is huge, but the Juventus fans I know seem to think Barzagli is their best overall defender and Boucci is important to their back 4, so if Barzagli is fit and plays with Bonucci it's not the end of the World I suppose.
Imagine if Ogbonna has to play though?
Chiellini missing is huge, but the Juventus fans I know seem to think Barzagli is their best overall defender and Boucci is important to their back 4, so if Barzagli is fit and plays with Bonucci it's not the end of the World I suppose.
Imagine if Ogbonna has to play though?
They're missing Chiellini??
Didn't know that.
I think Bonucci needs a proper leader next to him as he tends to be a bit of a hit and miss at times. Also, has Barzagli been playing much this season?
As for the point, I don't think Italy is anywhere close to England at this point. The gap between England + Spain and the others was already a bit distant. 2 bad seasons isn't enough to do much damage, especially since there was already that gap. Also, I think English sides will be much stronger next year anyway. What interests me is if we've closed much of a gap on Germany atm
I don't think the gap between Italian and English clubs is actually that big. At least now.
The thing with Italian clubs is that they have no longterm strategy and spend (or used to spend) unwise. Take Bologna for example. I was absolutely stunned the other day I learn how much they've spent around 2010. Now compare that with a German club like M'Gladbach. Steadily aiming at the CL, signing smart deals, getting extra cash for big players like Kruse or Reus. That's what Italy needs. More clubs like that.
Honestly, English clubs are the prime example of unwise spending. Take Tottenham, Liverpool, even Arsenal and United. I've never seen clubs that spend shitloads of money on every turn like they do. Someone somewhere had a decent season somehow. Boom! 30 million like it's biscuits. With the amount of money that circulates in the Premier League, English should be dominating European football.
Yes, but the main difference is - they can afford to spend. Or at least most of them. Whereas clubs like Bologna cannot but still manage to do it.
What Italian clubs spend doesn't even compare to what English clubs do. And Bologna? How much did they spend they got you all obsessed with them all of a sudden?
Obsessed? Well, I'm more stunned and surprised. Sure it's incomparable; but then what's the point of bringing in English clubs into the discussion?
Anyway, from 2008-2012 they've spent about 75M. €, with very bad deals and high payrolls.
Anyway, from 2008-2012 they've spent about 75M. €, with very bad deals and high payrolls.
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 6 2015, 05:23 PM)
Obsessed? Well, I'm more stunned and surprised. Sure it's incomparable; but then what's the point of bringing in English clubs into the discussion?
Anyway, from 2008-2012 they've spent about 75M. €, with very bad deals and high payrolls.
Anyway, from 2008-2012 they've spent about 75M. €, with very bad deals and high payrolls.
Is that a net spend?
People often bring up Spurs in regards to big spending, when in reality is they made £200m in recent years just from the sales of Bale, Modric, Crouch Pavlyuchenko and van der Vaart. Their net spend is not very much at all.
I think EPL sides can also command huge numbers for their players as well so that's a big factor, no team would pay over a 100m on a Bale that was playing in Serie A. Simple as that.
Also, it's not like Spanish clubs spend wisely either.
Also, it's not like Spanish clubs spend wisely either.
Yawn. Another match fix. Boring. UEFA needs a clean out like FIFA.
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