Did I expect him to destroy them? Maybe, but Juventus are a well-oiled machine, and he's simply taking over Conte's work. Raging success? Now now, Danny...

Inter were even better oiled and Benitez took them south following Mourinho.

But, I'm sure you've got an excuse to cover that one too

I like how a few years ago it was that we should be competing because Juve's players are overrated/mediocre. Now, with essentially the same squad, it's an amazing team that Allegri can't fail with.

I've never claimed that the Juve team which won the first Scudetto was mediocre, but we had the better side and should have won. That's something you can't deny. Besides, that was their first good season. They only got better and stronger afterwards. Players like Pogba, Tevez and Moratta can get you places.

People dismiss Conte's work too easily. He made them great, at least in Serie A.

A Juve fan yesterday proclaimed to me that Tevez is good but not great.

That's a little harsh when said team made quite large changes.

10-11 Juve
Storari; Motta, Bonucci, Chiellini, Grosso; Marchisio, Melo, Aquilani; Pepe, Del Piero, Krasic

11-12 Juve
Buffon; Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini; Lichsteiner, Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio, De Ceglie; Vucinc, Matri

That's 3 of their starters that remained integral pieces. If you think the 11-12 Juve isnt that good a team, then seeing as it's mostly the same team as now, he's obviously doing well to be top, right?

You can also say that Allegri took the title from the best team in Europe. A team that made barely any changes. 09-10 Inter and 10-11 Inter were basically the same team.

Han and X have also gone very silent on Allegri's raging success at Juve.

Fact is the guy is a decent coach, and if Juve suddenly sell their best players and ship out half the squad, I'm sure he'll struggle there too.

Abate, Nesta, Silva, Mexes, Aquilani, Van Bommel, Seedorf, Nocerino, Boateng, Cassano, Ibrahimovic, Pato and Robinho were more than enough to win the Scudetto. Why can't you just accept the fact that Allegri simply failed that season and move on? We were top of the table until the last few weeks, then we lost to Barça and for some reason started giving points away left and right. That, my friend, means handling the title to your opponent on a silver platter.

I like how a few years ago it was that we should be competing because Juve's players are overrated/mediocre. Now, with essentially the same squad, it's an amazing team that Allegri can't fail with.

Juve have had the better squad for three and a half years and won the title for 3 years and soon to be four. It's quite logical. Nocerino, Emannuelson, Abate, Aquilani, Robinho, Ambrosini, Abbiati, El Shaarawy, Bonera and Antonini were regulars that season.

The only other players to play more than half the games were Ibra, Silva and van Bommel who I agree were very good. Three players doesn't make a team.

I hardly see that as the same team they have now. Pogba and Tevez are probably 2 of their most essential players today, not to mention other improvements throughout the squad. And even so, ours was still the much better squad. We had champions and match winners throughout the group. Yes the ghost goal did turn the league on it's head, but at the end of the day we should still have won that 2nd title with Allegri, also seeing how Juve basically fired blanks all season and drew half of their games

Inter lost Mourinho, that in itself was the biggest loss they could have had, not to mention they were burnt out not being a young team and having just won the treble. Your point just goes to show how important a coach truly is to a team, no matter what set of players you have. At some point you simply cannot rely on the individuals alone anymore, which is why Allegri failed so dismally, because that is what he did with us. The situations between us and the Juve that he took over from Conte are vastly different. With us, he took over a blank slate there was no real identity in how we played, he had to model Milan on his own ideas, with Juve he took over a team that was distinctly built to play with Conte's vision in mind.


I think you need to go back and see what me and x-off have BOTH always said about Allegri. And especially with regards to his current job. We both always said that if he keeps the core as is, he should have no issues humping the entire league. And I even scoffed at those who were hoping Roma would mount a challenge. I personally said all along that Juve would win this title by the turn of the new year, no matter who's coaching them, as long as Moratta doesn't sell their best players they're the sole option for that title in my eyes. Simply because their squad is just that much better than the rest of the others in the league. And so far they have not let me down in that respect.

I always maintain that the CL is where Allegri needs to excel. Conte only managed a quarter final appearance and a dismal showing last season when they went out at the groups. So far, Juve have struggled in that competition but did manage to scrape through their group. We'll see how they fair in Germany in a few weeks.

You too have rather ignored the Benitez Inter argument...

Inter without Mourinho were never the same Inter. Allegri took nothing away from them, they just fell over by themselves. The competition that season was scarce, we had Thiago and Ibra and an overall good team, and we simply took what we could without impressing in any way possible.

Inter were at the end of the line, Mourinho knew it and he left. Same story as with us in 2007, players reaching their limit and not being able to give more.

Inter lost Mourinho, that in itself was the biggest loss they could have had, not to mention they were burnt out not being a young team and having just won the treble.

Abate, Nesta, Silva, Mexes, Aquilani, Van Bommel, Seedorf, Nocerino, Boateng, Cassano, Ibrahimovic, Pato and Robinho were more than enough to win the Scudetto. Why can't you just accept the fact that Allegri simply failed that season and move on? We were top of the table until the last few weeks, then we lost to Barça and for some reason started giving points away left and right. That, my friend, means handling the title to your opponent on a silver platter.

The others were all mostly fringe and had to come in when others were injured. Allegri using Urby incessantly in the AM position? You really want to bring that up as a form of excuse when we had so many other options available?

Most of the players you mentioned didn't even play half the games. The players I listed are the only ones that did and only 3 of them are great players. The rest are too old/mediocre. You can't claim Nesta/Mexes/Boateng/Cassano, etc when they didn't even have an impact on half the season.

I can easily say why can't you accept the fact that the teams that were put out were not as good as Juve's. Clearly you are not remembering things properly. Backed up by your Barca comment. We played 7 games after losing to Barca, we won 5, drew 1 and lost 1.

I wonder how many coaches have won Serie A with multiple teams? Even the great Carlo had the best team in the league with both Milan and Juve and couldn't do it. Surely that would be the minimum requirement, right? Like it is with Allegri.

The anti-Allegri sentiment is hilarious, it just makes it even funnier that he's going to win another title.

Round and round in circles.

I wonder how many coaches have won Serie A with multiple teams? Even the great Carlo had the best team in the league with both Milan and Juve and couldn't do it. Surely that would be the minimum requirement, right? Like it is with Allegri.

The anti-Allegri sentiment is hilarious, it just makes it even funnier that he's going to win another title.

Round and round in circles.

Did you watch Serie A in the season(s) where Ancelotti took over at Juventus?

Hm...







No matter who Moratti brought, they were never going to repeat themselves, not even for the Scudetto. They were burnt out, simple as. Benitez was just one part of the problem.

EDIT: And when I say "part of the problem", I mean trusted Mourinho players not wanting him because of his rivalry with the latter. Remember those phone calls between the various Cambiasso, Zanetti etc. and Mourinho in Madrid, Chivu's outburst against Roma, players allegedly pushing Moratti to fire Benitez etc. It was a delicate situation, and not one comparable in any way with the Juventus-Allegri one.

Didn't buy your first explanation, nor this one. Just think you hate Allegri and that's it. You will basically use every argument in the book to back it up and ignore opposing ideas - none of which I can be bothered going into because it ain't worth it.

Although I'll concede that at least you admit Pippo's a billion times worse than Allegri could ever be.

Eh, to each their own. I think the points I and Han bring are very valid, you and Kurt have other opinions and ideas. This argument always goes in circles, we shouldn't really bother anymore with it.

Agreed. Pointless. I hereby declare Milanfan an Allegri-free zone, and hopefully soon an Inzaghi and Silvio free one too.

Yes. That Juventus side was obscenely talented, including having the best player in World football on their side. Absolutely no question he should've won Serie A and certainly won it at least 2/3 times with Milan.

But again, we'll never agree. Most of it is subjective. Though the facts are there to see, that require no subjectivity.

Wishful thinking there

But like it or not we always tend to go back to he who shall not be named because there are opinions on him that are as similar to each other as night and day

But it's not all facts, that's the point.

What the hell are you talking about Why are you so cryptic, this is not soviet Russia?

Yes, because giving Essien €2.5 million and Muntari €1.5 million is acceptable, but for a good coach anything over €2 million would be a crime.

Think a bit harder. A good coach would only come if we had a project and ambition. Ambition is possible with money. We don't have money, hence we can only rely on coaches who don't have a firm stance on transfer policy and club ambitions.

But we never tried to hire a good coach for a change. Last summer, you think if we had offered a job to Bielsa or whoever we were linked with by the media (I can't remember) and gave them a fat +€3 million check they wouldn't have accepted? Nah, I don't buy that. Ambition comes from the coach as well. Hiring Leonardo, then Allegri, then Seedorf, then Inzaghi shows we just don't care. At least Allegri had some sort of backbone, but the other three? They were experiments if nothing else.

I'm not so sure who would accept coaching Milan at this point. Maybe coaches without any recent successes and jobs. But then you also have Galliani who really likes coaches like Inzaghi or Allegri, the ones he can handle and are happy to be under him while at the same time Fester thinks he's invented the next Capello.

I'm just saying. For example, you have Rijkaard who's jobless and would accept Milan on the spot. Sure, he's not Mourinho and he hasn't had any success since Barça,

Lazio 4-0 Fiorentina

Sorry for the triple post, but I just briefly wanted to discuss this. Lazio are currently 3rd with 46 points, having won 14 games, tied 6 and lost 8. We are 10th with 35 points, having won 8 games, tied 11 and lost 7.

Their starting line-up tonight was: Marchetti; Basta, De Vrij, Mauricio, Radu; Cataldi, Biglia; Candreva, Mauri, Anderson; Klose. Compare that to our players. Do you honestly think that they have a better team?

I saw the first half tonight and they were brilliant. They knew what they were doing. So much movement, so many ideas, so much energy and desire to win. This is what is making the difference between us and the contenders for that 3rd spot. And if the coach is not responsible for it, then I don't know who it is.

Cursed the day we appointed Pippo as our coach!

A new study has shown that Serie A clubs are lagging behind in their development of top-class talent

As if the lack of progress in European competition, the dwindling audiences and the loss of star pulling power wasn’t enough, Italian football has also massively unperformed in its youth development, a new study has suggested.

When the CIES Football Observatory released its research into the big five leagues’ production of major talent this week, there was little surprise that Serie A failed to figure prominently.

But the width of the gap between the production lines in the biggest European leagues and the Italian top-flight comes as a stark warning to the peninsula’s major clubs that they are set to see their slide continue if they do not get their houses in order.

The CIES study shows that Serie A clubs are neither developing players for their own first team nor using their academies to their benefit in the transfer market, matching the growing malaise in the Italian game as a whole.

Inter rank only 19th in terms of the number of club-trained players now plying their trade in the top five domestic competitions across England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany, while Milan come in 34th. Worse still, Juventus don’t even feature in the top 50. It is a damning indictment on each of the big hitters in Italian football.
La Liga and Ligue 1 both boast more than twice as many club-trained players in their first-team squads, while clubs from those same two leagues and the English Premier League have each generated twice as much in transfer revenue from youngsters developed within their acadamies.

For too long, clubs across the bel paese have ignored the countless areas in which improvements need to be made and few are guiltier than the big three. The institutions with the greatest capacity for change have been too slow on the uptake.

That Juventus – the club with a phenomenal fan base all across Italy – cannot put the systems and structures in place to develop more young players into first-team hopefuls than 1860 Munich, Celta Vigo, Guingamp or Rayo Vallecano says much about calcio’s complacency.

Moreover, Milan have done nothing to help themselves at a time when they are losing money hand over fist and are struggling on the field under Filippo Inzaghi. The successful training of youth players capable of stepping into the first-team would alleviate many of their issues, but they cannot expect to catch up when Barcelona are producing more than three times as many young footballers.

With increasing regularity in recent years, star talents at Italy’s biggest clubs have reached the cusp of the first team and then seemingly hit a ceiling. The likes of Bryan Cristante, Luca Marrone and Lorenzo Crisetig have been talked up massively but have made no real impact, and that has happened partly due to the inability of coaches to take them up the final level and partly because of complacency.

Why can Southampton, Swansea and Real Sociedad develop footballers worth millions of euros but Juventus, Milan and Inter cannot? Forget Xavi and Lionel Messi, Italian clubs can’t even produce a Thiago Alcantara or Antonio Sanabria right now.

Antonio Conte was widely questioned when, during his spell as Juventus coach, he lambasted the lack of realism around Italian football and the shortage of urgency in finding avenues for progression.

“I can’t see an Italian team winning the Champions League in the coming years,” he said in April 2013.

“It makes me laugh when I hear that with just two or three new signings we can win the Champions League. Italian football has come to a standstill and that should be a concern for everyone.

“I think everyone has to pull together to try and change things in Italian football. When I say everyone, I mean the clubs, the supporters, the media and all the institutions.”

But, despite Conte’s warning, there remains a huge chasm between the bigger leagues and the rapidly failing Serie A.

Results on the continent are getting no better, with only one club making it to the last 16 of the Champions League for a second successive season. The bigger outfits continue to trail provincial clubs such as Udinese in their scouting structures, meaning they miss out on getting optimum value out of young talent.

And the latest figures show they are failing in their youth setups too, with the comparatively-richer production line at Atalanta - they unsurprisingly lead Italy with 22 club-trained youngsters now playing in the big five leagues - being proof that quality is there to be found if the likes of Juve, Milan and Inter look hard enough.

Juventus’ move to a new stadium, and Roma and Milan’s promises to follow suit, have breathed new optimism into Italian football as it looks to bridge the gap which has developed in the last 10 years. But that is only the start of the task at hand, and failing to provide talented youngsters with the platform from which to succeed could continue to hit them in the pocket and in their results for some time to come.

Roma have gone down the shitter.

Roma have gone down the shitter.

Marchisio out for 6-8 months. Tough luck for Juve.