Anyone has an impression that Ligue 1 might just be too easy for Ibrahimovic?

You think?

It's obvious that he is, however, I don't feel that the team plays to his strengths. 1 thing Allegri understood is that you have to play for Ibra to get the best out of him, and Carlo is not doing that. If he did it would probably look like Ibra playing against Sunday league teams every week.

Ibra needs the team to revolve around him, he's still good without having that luxury, but if you want to see what he can really do then he has to be the central focus of the team.

And doing so would mean failing in the CL. Not that PSG will achieve something this year, yet if they remain unchanged for next year...the could do something.

We should just rename this the PSG thread for this year.



If Carlo praises a youngster, you know it's something special.

Definitively.

Ligue 1 is a curious division. A lot of top quality players ply their trade there, and historically some real powerhouses come from there; Monaco, PSG, Marseille, Bordeaux, Auxerre, Lille - and yet for the league's undeniable health, as soon as a good player emerges, they move onto Spain or England. For the riches in France, their football clubs cannot hold onto top players, and as a result from once upon a time being one of the most lauded leagues around it's no longer even in the second tier of European football. Barely even the third tbh. A truly world class player would either leave, or stroll the division.

imho the current state of hierarchy in Europe for leagues is:

1: England/Spain
3: Germany
4: Portugal
5: Italy
6: France.

Which is why FFP won't work all too well in my opinion.

England and Spain are the top leagues for 1 reason. Money. England has an entire worldwide appeal, La Liga maybe isn't as big in Asia, but it is in the Americas. The tv money these leagues generate make it near impossible for others to compete.

How can teams in Italy ever compete in FFP? They earn less money from merchandising, tv and ticket sales. How can they possibly make up for it?

Portugal above Italy? I don't know about that.

Wil be by the UEFA co-efficients by next season.

We've disagree on this before. Italy was easily above Portugal in years gone by, but these days Portugal is I believe 5.5 points above Italy in the coefficient table with the same number of qualifying clubs.

Plus Porto were above us in Pot 1 seeding, while Benfica were in pot 2 with no Italian side in it at all. Juve were in pot 3.

Portugal is a strong league these days, with Porto its marquee club.

We shouldn't take coefficients so seriously. I think the Portuguese league is very poor. Yes, they have a few strong teams in Porto, Benfica, Sporting and to an extent Braga, but Italy have Milan, Inter, Juventus, Roma, Napoli, Lazio and Udinese. Serie A is much more difficult and competitive than the Portuguese Liga, although the quality has decreased substantially compared to ten years ago.

Agreed. Never mind coefficients. Just look at the mid-table or lower clubs. Incomparable.

Well it depends what your agenda is.

If you wish to judge a league by its performances and co-efficients in the various European competitions, in the past 5 years Portugal have been just as strong if not more so than Italy.

If on the other hand you're more interested in historical strength in depth and perceived quality throughout the league then you'd give it to Italy.

Because neither league is particularly attractive to the top, top players these days so it's certainly not based on the allure to the best players of either league.

Just as an aside, if you're using the argument about the strength of the league's competition, then there's a very strong case to say Portugal's has gone up in the past decade while Italy's has gone down. My most generous concession here would be that a combination of the above 2 arguments would suggest a parity between the leagues.

One does better in Europe these days while the other has more strength in depth in its domestic competition.

What one matters more?

Excellent points, Danny. And while I'll always choose the Italian Serie A, based on on scentimental reasons, Portugal's football league is (and has been for some time now) on the way up.

The PSG machine finally starting to work, it seems. 4-0 to Bastia, twice Zlatan.

Ahh, you guys will never learn. Wasn't it obvious? Rough start, then turn one speed ahead, then get into the Christmas win streak then hold on and reach zenith. That's always Carlo's plan.

3 out of 6 is still bad. Likely be 6 points off top by the end of the weekend too.

You are talking like he won tons of league titles with some plan. Only 2 league titles in his career and yes, I know all the excuses.

Chelsea as well

Yup, that is always the case isn't it?

PSG have a very competitive squad, Carlo just adds more to it. More in the sense that they could very well tussle with Europe's best. People undervalue him, however, to his defense, Juventus was demoted to Serie B for match fixing, while Milan finished 2nd in two consecutive years due to that.

He is by far one of the most sought after coaches in Europe, regardless of his league title medals.

Well he also managed Juve while they were getting help and failed to win the league.

It's a 2 way street imo. I think Carlo was a genius with us in regards to mastering the arts of a 2-legged tie. As for league performance, you have to admit that it was just bad considering the squad he had

Not really ... There is an arab proverb 'If it stays with someone else, it wouldn't have come to you'.

Ohh,...not really. He managed Juve in a crisis period. Granted, he had Zizou and some great players at hand, but something didn't just work. Getting help? In what way?

Bad? How can it be bad? When he had a good squad he won twice and came second twice (second to a fixed Juve as winner)? How is that bad?

Juve had been getting help from the refs for years, even when Carlo was coach. That's what I meant by getting help. So if Carlo is going to be defended for not managing anything against Juve while at Milan because of the match fixing than it has to be said that he didn't manage to win anything with Juve while he was on the receiving end of that help.

We only won 1 Scudetto under Carlo. At that time we had arguably one of the best squads in Europe from 2002 to 2006 under Carlo. It's justified when someone says that he should have done better

Carlo is one of the top 3 coaches that have sat on our bench under Berlusconi's era.

There are fans that adore him, there are those who can't stand him and there are those who are indifferent. One thing is certain, Milan under Carlo Ancelotti was different (not in personnel) in its approach to the game. A trademark if you will.

Since he departed, it seems as though the reliance rested on individual brilliance than team cohesion etc ...

Yes, one scudetto, you're right on that.

But your reasoning is absurd! Ancelotti managed Juve from 1999 to 2001. Did Calciopoli happen at that period? Was Juve relegated for this period as well?

With the same reasoning you can denounce almost every Juve coach up to day because Juventus gets help from referees for decades. But Calciopoli was another level, it was a highly organized thing.

I counted the Chelsea title, it's the second league title of his career. One with us and one with them.

Somehow I was under the impression Milan had 2 scudetti. Sorry

Despite what many seem to think, I don't think he's tactically good at all. We drew too many games against lesser sides under him despite having one of the best squads in World football for his first 5 years here. He didn't know how to break down the bottom teams who were happy to sit back and take a point.

He was better in the CL because in the KO stages against other top European sides, they weren't going to defend. He could remain patient and his team would find more ways to exploit the opposition as they opened up more. He had the fire power in his teams to make the most of the chances, but this didn't happen in Serie A so much.

Watching PSG seems to be more of the same. If they can get breakthrough they're fine, but they also struggle to break teams down.

At Chelsea I think he was unfairly treated though, he shouldn't have lost his job.

So you really think that Moggi only influenced referees for those 2 seasons?

Not even the most gullible person around would believe that. Calciopoli was based on those 2 seasons because the evidence (the tapes) were from those 2 particular season. But no one could convince me that Moggi hadn't been fixing games for years before that.

Maybe he did, maybe not. 1999 is very far from 2006. I really don't know. Maybe Juve started playing well when Moggi did his work - in 2002 or 2003. But those are only assumptions.

Facts remain: Juventus fixed at least 2 seasons in which Milan or any other club could not have won. Ancelotti managed Juventus in an entirely different era.

Moggi's match fixing dates way back, at least since 1998/1999. Everyone knows that. Remember Juventus-Inter of 1998? One of the most scandalous games ever in regards to refereeing.

Paris losing 2-0 at home against Sain-Etienne. Ibra got red-carded.

Still the same old Ibra

Seems like this thread is only visited when PSG/Ancelotti looses, yet when he wins (like Marseille) no one cares.

Same with Barca/Madrid though. When they win, so they should with a much superior team. When they lose it's terrible though.

Yeah, but malice or schadenfreude against a ex-Interista or a club that robbed us last season I can understand, but against our very own legend..no.

Well, I guess because PSG losing at home against a low-table side and Ibra receiving a red card in the same game doesn't happen very often.

Let's face it, what's interesting about either league atm?

La Liga is only mildly exciting when the classico is on and the French league is just that. PSG will run away with it no matter what, I personally watch them from time to time because I'm a huge Thiago fan and I still like to watch Ibra play, plus there's that Varretti kid who I personally really like and think he'll become really great in the future. Aside from that it's really not all that exciting watching them play.

People don't come here just to celebrate the fact that PSG lost or when Barca or Real lose because they enjoy watching it, but because it only gets a bit interesting when that happens

Well, to be honest, Serie A these days isn't thrilling either. Bundesliga and EPL lead the way this year.

Just because the quality has dropped a bit does not mean it's not interesting. The fight for the title, for the CL spots, even for the EL spots is a lot more interesting than it is in Spain and especially the french league.

A bit? I'd say the quality in recent years is dropping more and more. But yes, more interesting then the French and Spanish league - at least for a while.

Actually the Bundesliga and the EPL have been ahead for a while now. Both leagues promote fan friendly atmosphere and a drumroll at the end of 'most' seasons where different teams claim the title, sometimes a Wolfsburg. This allows belief and commitment of fans to keep strong, unlike that in Serie A where it is October/November and Juve have pulled clear already (..we know how that usually ends ). Kill me already

How's Bundesliga more interesting? It's always Bayern and some other random team competing for the title, not much different from La Liga you see. At least in Italy you've got the big three and teams like Roma and Napoli who have always posed a challenge in the past few years. There's a lot more competition if you ask me.

Agreed completely

I think for sheer entertainment value the EPL is the obvious choice and ahead of the rest by a mile

Bundesliga winners:
11–12 Borussia Dortmund
10–11 Borussia Dortmund
09–10 FC Bayern Munich
08–09 VfL Wolfsburg
07–08 FC Bayern Munich
06–07 VfB Stuttgart

Serie A winners:
11-12 Juventus
10–11 Milan
09-10 merda
08-09 merda
07-08 merda
06-07 merda


What I meant to say was Juventus are likely to run away with the title this season again, same way merda ran away with it. It is always the big teams that finish 1st. Sure Bayern is the Juventus of the Bundesliga, but at least you have teams like Dortmund, Stuttgart and Wolfsburg coming up to claim a spotlight and make dreams of Stuttgart fans and Wolfsburg possible. Its different in Serie A, nowadays ...

Completely wrong. But R7 saved me the trouble.

Completely wrong? I think R7 pretty much confirmed what I said. Where are Wolfsburg nowadays? Where are Stuttgart? What about Bremen a few seasons back? How come Gladbach are struggling so badly after an amazing run last season? It's very typical for German clubs. Aside from Bayern, the rest are one-hit wonders that shine for one season and become mediocre the very next one. Not much different from Montpellier in France. Don't be surprised if Dortmund are struggling for an Europa League spot in a couple of years.

It's not about who wins it anyway. Liverpool haven't won the EPL, but they finished 2nd and made multiple CL Finals - are they really worse than a Montpellier or a Stuttgart?