For those who care: Italy has surpassed Germany in the UEFA coefficient rankings.

Association club coefficients


Country Clubs Pts
1
Spain 7/7 92.712

2
England 7/7 66.034

3
Italy 6/6 64.082

4
Germany 6/7 63.998

Huh, I thought Germany was above England.

They were until this year -- the rolling average changed and the year where Bayern and Dortmund played in the CL final has rolled off.

Huh, so just when UEFA give it to us by default, Italy manage to claw the spot back

Indeed.

I admit Serie A's strength has massively grown the past 18 months. It is justifiably ahead now of Germany and is scraping its way back to being one of Europe's absolute best.

I guess the difference with the old days is back then the Milan clubs and Juve dominated the world through Catenaccio and everyone was scared to play them. Serie A was feared.

It isn't now - Barcelona, PSG and Real are the only teams now feared and even then, all of them can be vulnerable now and then.

And also Serie A's top teams as of right now are Juve, Napoli, Roma and Inter - none of whom play in the old school style.

And none of them are exactly feared by anyone.

Roma and Napoli have been bad in the CL every time they've been given the chance to play in the competition. Juve have gotten to 2 finals and completely folded, while Inter have been in as bad a slump as we have in the last few years. A decent start to the season for them doesn't say much as they then tend to press the self-destruct button at some point during the season

To be frank, Juve have been unlucky in those finals as they've faced Barça and Madrid both in their best moments.

Well that's the point of getting to the final, you're facing the best

Real or Barca have been present in the final of the CL for the last few years without fail. So they're the teams you have to beat to win it and Juve have shown to be big time chokers each time

We got Liverpool in 2007.

I think that until 2012 football wasn't as monopolized by the Spanish teams as it has become in these last few years. Which has coincided with Juve's rise as well. They're unlucky in that way, but they lost 2 finals by big margins when they should have done better than they did. They've always struggled in Europe, especially in the crucial moments. And this is not just a recent thing, but a historical fact

I was speaking about those two finals only since you brought them up. I think any team would have lost them, not just Juve.

Maybe you're right, we'll never know. That being said, Juve absolutely crumbled both times and they were better than that each time but simply caved under the pressure

No offense guys, but this is a pretty stupid argument.

Football in the 00's and early 10's was, like Han said, different and not monopolized by Real and Barcelona. Nowadays to win the CL you gotta win against one of the two teams (or both), it's that simple. Just think of it: Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid - that's all we've seen in the last couple of years. No one stood a real chance, Atletico was the only team that got near to it.

Would any team loose to Madrid last season? Who knows. That's very counterfactual. But what I do know is that Juventus could have done more, in terms of formation, tactics, preparation, etc.

But it doesn't change the fact that in our last three CL finals we faced Juventus and twice Liverpool. Obviously it was more difficult for Juve with Barça and Madrid, regardless of how much football has changed since then.

Hmh? I really don't get your point. We faced Liverpool, Liverpool faced us. Milan in 2007 wasn't even considered a top contender. But back then 10 or even more clubs could have been in the final and it would be no surprise. Nowadays and club other then Barcelona, Real and Bayern winning the CL (let alone playing the final) is a major upset.

But seriously, I don't get what you're trying to say by this comparison? That we had an easier job back then in 2007, 2005 and 2003 then Juventus in their last finals?

Of course. Are you perhaps claiming otherwise?

Juve - Madrid ; speechless.

Sheet class from Zidane’s team

Ronaldo’s goal though...

It's so depressing when you see that Milan needs to be at their best perfomance only to get trashed 3-1 by Juventus, the same team that is world's apart from Real who trashed them at home. This is why I'm losing faith and interest in football rapidly. Some teams are simply too strong.

Honestly, Juve were dominating Real till they scored their second. Real were just out of it, they couldn't get out of their own half. Then Ronaldo happened, Juve got demoralized, Dybala got a red card, and the game turned itself. That's football for you.

Naah, Ronaldo happened when it already went down 0-1 (at home). The difference in class is obvious.

Meh, that's Ronaldo's team not Zidane's. I really wonder whether he even does any coaching with this team or just picks 11 players each game and just tells them to go out there and do what they do. His league form is a testament to this.


Meh. We were unlucky against Juve, but that's just the way it is against them in the league, they always have the bounce of the ball going their way and it's been so since Buffon clawed out Muntari's shot from behind the line. But once they're in the CL and they're at the tail end, they tend to bottle it and it's been this way since around 1996. So...

Football is all about money, and Real have built practically 2 top class teams because they have plenty of it. The result against Juve could have easily been very different. The early goal was strange and it seemed like Juve were half asleep still. But they dominated the majority of the game against a team who has some of the best players in the world playing for them.


And who scored that goal? He's a difference maker, just like Messi is. Juve imo have one of the best teams in the World. They might be a step behind Real and Barca, but they're definitely on par with Bayern, City, PSG, etc. All of which are teams with endless resources their disposal

And, bar Bayern, without international success...

Are you equating an early goal to superiority on the pitch?

Roma pass against Barca! Miracles still exist!!

Holy sh*t Roma! What a game! Kudos.

when i saw live score in the morning i thought there was some error.. Hope Roma does not get madrid in next round

Watching that game against Roma I was actually as nervous as I am when watching big Milan games. Was so routing for them to go through. They deserved it

Juve currently 2-0 up against Real as well

And they complete the comeback! 3-0

Honestly. I'm happy about this. To see our league being validated like this against the 2 best teams in the world is so satisfying

How Real are helped by the refs each year is really disgusting. Shameful. Had it been the other way around at the time during the game, it would have never been given.

It's not just money ruining football, it's bodies like Fifa and Uefa.

Come on man, it was a penalty. I'm sorry about Juve as well, but Benatia committed foul.

And how do FIFA and UEFA ruin football if it had been the referee's mistake?

Agreed, some things never change Agnelli spoke out offering to train UEFA refs and further asserted VAR as THE solution. Benatia touched the ball, there was a dive, then a penalty. So sad to see Buffon go off like that. Especially after a performance like tonight.

It was a very soft one. And I can 100% guarantee you that had it been on the other side of the pitch, he would have never in a million years whistled for it.

Do you remember the game against Bayern last year for them? Blatant "Errors" from the refs then as well.



Look I don't really feel sorry for Juve, this is a taste of their own medicine. As they're always getting such favourable calls in the league. But what angers me is these teams like Real and Barca always getting a helping hand from the refs, even after already having such a huge upper hand over the rest of the clubs because of the players they have and can afford to get.

Don't tell me you don't believe that these governing bodies don't mess around with sh!t to get the more commercially advantageous outcomes for themselves

Nah, I don't believe for a second that the ref whistled for the penalty because UEFA had advised him to favor Madrid. He saw a foul inside the area and made a decision.

Now that I've re-watched the moment a few times, I still think Benatia committed foul. HOWEVER, I do believe that it wasn't so blatant and the referee could have easily let the game go to extra time. In other words, there was a foul and the ref made the right call, but if he hadn't given the penalty then the game would have gone on and nobody would have talked about it ever again. Just like nobody talked about the obvious foul on Cuadrado in the first leg.

Real's luck in this competition for these last 3 years has been astounding

Well, luck, paid referees, money, Zidane, talent - call it whatever you like. But they've made the CL very boring.

Think its up to Mo Salah to end this Madrid run in the CL. Currently in Rome gonna go to the stafium to watch the semi-final tonight

Nevertheless, Zidane has done history, both as a player and now as a coach. Hats off to the man.

Zidane? Really? I don't think he has much of an input. Certainly not in a tactical sense. Bayern wiped the floor with them in both legs yet they still managed to somehow win, and it wasn't because of some master plan. The money has also helped, their squad is stacked and it doesn't really matter who he picks as they're all at a certain level and will provide quality performances


Hmm, I'm not counting Roma out yet. And btw, I'm supremely jealous that you're going to be there at the Olimpico. I'm sure it will be an amazing night. Hopefully Roma can pull off another miracle

Sure, Zidane will be remembered for achieving a historic feat but he would tank at any other club because I don't think he's really that good a coach, his league form illustrates this perfectly

Well, Zidane achieved what no one did so far with Real Madrid. I get what you're saying Han but I really cannot downplay Zidane's role in this Madrid-domination. No one achieved this so far, I really think Zizou has to get some credit for it.

Roma got robbed...

What a game! I was a neutral, as my friends were cheering on Liverpool, while I slightly wanted the Italians through but enjoyed watching Momo salah . In the end it was a beautiful game, the ref made questionable calls. However the atmosphere was amazing, so amazing I missed Milan. Not this Milan, but the one between 2002 and 2007. A feeling like your sick in your stomatch. Especially when the CL music started.

Romans were gutted, they believe the correct final should have been Bayern v Roma. Oh well, what a night

On Zidane, I believe he would be successful at any 'top' club he goes to. Only time will tell if he is any good at another club. However, based on the games I've watched him coach; he has shown tactical prowess and intelligence. I believe he will be successful at any 'top' club.

Inter and Napoli got some hellish groups. Juve got a tough one, too. But many interesting match-ups in the group stage. I like it.

By the way, any thoughts on Ronaldo not winning the best player award? I find it ridiculous. Modric was great, and had a phenomenal WC. But in the CL it was Ronaldo who won it for them.

Modric might not have been as in your face important as Ronaldo, but he was just as crucial for Real. Plus, it's getting old to always see Ronaldo or Messi winning it. Modric is a refreshing choice imo, and I hope it's the same thing with the Ballon D'or, he deserves it

I completely disagree.

Ronaldo
Games - 12
Goals - 15
Assists - 3
Player of the week - 4

Modric
Games - 11
Goals - 1
Assists - 1
Player of the week - 0

Come on, it's plain obvious. Without Ronaldo, Madrid would have never won the CL.

A debate old as time, or football at least. I have to say that I agree with Han. Look everyone knows that Ronaldo has killer stats. But like Han said, the Ronaldo-Messi thing really became boring as hell, especially with CR7 dominating in every possible way. I mean it’s giving the award to someone who’s actually playing amazing on a different style and level/way then the mentioned two. Think of Pirlo and Kaka. Milan never would have won the CL without Kaka and his goals/assists. But wasn’t Pirlo as important neverthenless?

Pirlo never was as important as Kaka', that goes without saying. It was Kaka' who stepped up during that season and won games single-handedly for us.

It's the same argument here. Just because Ronaldo and Messi have been winning it for the past 10 years doesn't mean that a fantastic CL run by Ronaldo should be overshadowed by Modric's great season, which mostly culminated in the WC rather than in the CL.

It's a theft, a disgrace, and a shameful thing to do, giving it to Modric.

PS: Don't get me wrong, I think Modric is a fantastic player, and probably the best midfielder in the world right now. But we have to look at things objectively. His season in the CL compared to Ronaldo's don't compare.

So, Atalanta start by losing 4-0 to Dinamo. Shows you how weak Serie A actually is.

Well, Napoli did beat the champions of Europe, and Juve almost won vs Atletico last night in Madrid. So, I don't think that's a right assessment to make.

Rather, it's the given outcome of what happens when mid-table clubs like Atalanta pretend to be part of the big boys. They just can't handle it. We would have never lost 4-0, even at our current state.

I still think it's both. Loosing 4-0 to Dinamo Zagreb is a shocking result for a 4th placed Serie A team, mid-table club or not. Ten years ago a mid-table club in Italy would most probably win 2-0 or 3-0 against Dinamo...