QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 8 2015, 07:03 PM)
So? That has to be the flimsiest argument ever. You're praising them for letting a youth player go for free then buying him back for millions?
That's good business?!
Christ, I know you want to perpetuate your Juve being fair argument with Bayern, Real and Barca being the baddies, but this case is truly feeble!
I actually said that wrong. Berardi was the one on a co-ownership not Zaza, which is what I meant, however, Juve paid 12m for Zaza (with the deal involving the second half of Berardi going to Sassuolo). They had previously sold him to Sassuolo for 7.5m. That deal is cheaper than most co-own resolutions are. So yes, Juve let him go and bought him back, but they still had a strong hold on him, thanks to the other deal with regards to Berardi. Everyone knows both players were always Juve bound, just a matter of when not if. Also, they included a buy back option for Berardi as well, so when they want him, they'll bring him back.
Most importantly, these players were always Juve's and they made it so that they can bring them back when they want them, sure for a little cash, but 12m for a club that's doing so well is a good deal to have these players out and getting quality play time in the league that they wouldn't have gotten had they kept them or just loaned them.
Point is, Juve made smart investments, for players when they were young and still not really established. This is not like Barca buying Turan, or Real buying Isco. They bought a prospect from a Serie A and Serie B side. It was an investment which could have gone either way
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 8 2015, 07:18 PM)
Nah, Han you're completely off about all of this.
1)
On BayernGötze played this season almost regularly; it's Guardiolas rotation system that needs such players, even if Ribery and Robben are fit. Lewandowski came in and Madžukić out, I don't see how they signed Lewa just for the sake of it? But in the big picture, Bayern always mixed plenty of homegrown talent (from Kohler to Badstuber and Lahm, Jeremies to Kroos, etc.) with buys like Lucio or Ballack. But they never raided the league just for the sake of having these players - all key buys like Lucio, Ballack, Ze Roberto, Kovač, etc. had crucial roles.
But the main thing you miss, probably because you're not into the Bundesliga; there's a key difference: Juventus-Milan, Milan-Juventus, etc. transfers are more rare because of the rivalry. Only out of commodity did the Inter-Milan and vice versa transfers start to become more regular. But to leave Milan for say Juventus was and still is a bit odd, especially for key players.
That's different in Germany. The traditional clubs like München 1860, Eintracht, Nürenberg and HSV all play minor roles in the last decade(s). The newly established stronger clubs like Wolfsburg, Leverkusen, etc. have no particular tradition of rivalry, so it+s more natural for Bayern to sing their players, even star players. Now Dortmund is an exemption. Bayern did not shop with Dortmund right until Götze and now Lewa. And like I said, with Guardiola things started to change. The Bayern prior to that was different, you need to have more insight to know this.
2)
On MilanI'd like nothing more then find another bad aspect of our recent affairs but, in all honesty, let's revise your statement.
You say this like Darmian is a good example, but in all honesty it's a fluke. One good out of many bad. Look at the various players like Verdi, Grimi, Marzorati, etc. etc. Darmian, who Tennie called from day one as I recall a big potential, never impressed me with his various ventures, for example at Palermo. Only recently he's been rediscovered and I'm still not sure if it's just a good season or two or if he's really reached the highest level. But you cannot base your theory on one player, and that's what you have here. Maybe one and a half with Paloschi considered
1) No I'm no expert on the Bundesliga, but this has nothing to do with rivalries or what not. You think if Juve came in with a mega offer for one of our or Inter's players we wouldn't jump on it? Because that's what Bayern do. My point does not go into that technicality, just that Bayern simply buys the best talents out of its own league which usually leaves them the only option for that title. Barca and Real both do this as well. Simple as that really.
Goetze was just an example, I really don't think they needed him all that much. And Mandzukic was sold because they saw an opportunity to get Lewandowski. Juve's best players and backbone are players that came from teams in other leagues
Vidal, Barzagli, Pogba, Tevez, Morata, Chiellini and Marchisio coming through their own system. Others who are very important and they bought from teams within the league are Buffon, Bonucci and Licthsteiner, and none came from a direct rival for the title
2) Yes, Darmian is just one example. How about Boriello then? Sent him out on loan after loan after loan, and co-owned him here and there, only to pay 10m for just half of his contract after that co-own. How is that smart? Has Boriello ever been worth 20m FFS?
I get why certain things happen, sometimes the patience to wait out a player isn't there, but at least if he shows any sign of being potentially decent enough to be a starter for any Serie A side (from a bottom to a top side), handle him smartly. Look at Abate for example. We sent him here and there many times, but we brought him back because we still owned him and he was doing well at Toro.
Granted and just to be fair, the co-ownership system did tie the hands of the big clubs in this respect and I'm glad it's been abolished