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CHU-LIP
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 12:34 AM) *
Exactly. Just compare the work rate of Zlatan tonight to that of Dinho. True, he missed two good opportunities, he might be a selfish b@stard, but he fought like a lion and deserves some recognition. Without him, we'd be reduced to a mediocre team. The guy makes the difference.

I wouldn't call him that selfish actually, he gave another great assist today this season FFS. Zlatan+Pato is gold, just a need for a tactical change to make it shine. And probably also a new AMC...
shevchenko_007
I wouldn't call today's an assist, it was a horrible cross.
He gives the ball away, doesn't move at the right moments and got caught offside way too much and when he did finally get through he was wasteful.
Yeh he ran around a bit, but it was mostly to cause a foul.
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Nov 3 2010, 11:38 PM) *
I wouldn't call him that selfish actually, he gave another great assist today this season FFS. Zlatan+Pato is gold, just a need for a tactical change to make it shine. And probably also a new AMC...

biggrin.gif Gave a great assist??? He f**** that simple cross up!! Pippo only got anywhere near it because Casillas completely messed it up. rolleyes.gif

I can't believe some of the bias on here. The way people close their eyes to most things one player does and a foot wrong by the other and he's cr@p, unwatchable and useless rolleyes.gif

Ibra works his @ss off sure, but he's not delivering when it comes to goal, that's what he's here for not to work hard and foul defenders. Had that chance fallen to anyone else in the first half, that would have been 1-0 to us, no question about it.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (shevchenko_007 @ Nov 4 2010, 12:42 AM) *
I wouldn't call today's an assist, it was a horrible cross.

Okay, my sight is not very clear at the moment, but his previous assists were awesome!

Zlatan needs to play a supporting role for Pato the CF/striker!


edit: I take that great assist thing back, soooooorrrrrrrrrryyyyyy, I am too frustrated to think clear all the time
shevchenko_007
I am definitely on ur side here han and agree with u 100%
X-Offender
QUOTE (Linkman @ Nov 3 2010, 11:37 PM) *
Through that reasoning, Gattuso was, has been, and will likely always be our best player.


Completely different players. That's Gattuso's playing style. If he's not able to do even the only thing he's capable of, then he should quit playing football.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 3 2010, 11:38 PM) *
Funny how you always seem to direct it back to Dinho rolleyes.gif Dinho actually won a couple of balls today... No he didn't play well but he actually made things happen when it mattered. Zlatan fluffled his chances, and I'm sorry but a striker of his calibre shouldn't be getting one on one chances on a weekly basis and continually missing them. He missed 2 easy ones against Napoli, against Juve as well and against Real.


The fact you have the ***** to defend, even the slightest, such a pathetic player as Ronaldinho after tonight's performance makes me sick to the stomach.
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 3 2010, 11:48 PM) *
Completely different players. That's Gattuso's playing style. If he's not able to do even the only he's capable of, then he should quit playing football.



The fact you have the balls to defend, even the slightest, such a pathetic player as Ronaldinho makes me sick to the stomach.

And you're funny as all hell laugh.gif

I actually said Dinho played like cr@p today. But who actually gave the 2 good chances we actually created? Please enlighten me!! And who the hell fluffed them up??? The man you're saying had a great game! The only thing Ibra did was get caught offside, foul defenders and pass backwards, sometimes even badly might I add. The fact you have the balls to completely criticise Dinho when it's a completely biased oppinion is what makes me sick!!

Anyways. I'm out, there is no point to this! Please bash to your heart's content rolleyes.gif
shevchenko_007
Ibra is useless... we will play better with pato and robinho up front... I think that's all that needs to be said.
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 3 2010, 11:52 PM) *
And you're funny as all hell laugh.gif

I actually said Dinho played like cr@p today. But who actually gave the 2 good chances we actually created? Please enlighten me!! And who the hell fluffed them up??? The man you're saying had a great game! The only thing Ibra did was get caught offside, foul defenders and pass backwards, sometimes even badly might I add. The fact you have the balls to completely criticise Dinho when it's a completely biased oppinion is what makes me sick!!

Anyways. I'm out, there is no point to this! Please bash to your heart's content rolleyes.gif


But you still try to defend him, that's plain obvious. And to me, that is nuts. Have sweet Dinho dreams. rolleyes.gif
X-Offender
QUOTE (shevchenko_007 @ Nov 3 2010, 11:55 PM) *
Ibra is useless... we will play better with pato and robinho up front... I think that's all that needs to be said.


Ibra useless? The guy who has scored most goals for us so far? How old are you? biggrin.gif
shevchenko_007
Put Pato in the right position with a good strike partner and I'm sure we will be scoring many more goals.
Fillipo Simone
This tragicomic situation depicts Milans problems very well. MF started to be a place were posters compete in (and partly I also contribute to that) finding a proof of one's uselessness or one's uniqueness. When so many combinations seem at the same time unacceptable and rational, it can only mean one thing - we're in deep crisis.
Fillipo Simone
Again the Ronaldinho thing... puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif puke.gif
X-Offender
The truth makes me want to puke as well.
acid911
vnata001
http://www.soccerclips.net/videos/ac-milan...-sky-highlights

i enjoy listening to Leo.
Linkman
Positives about this game...

  • Pippo showed his class and what he's made of! Great spirit, good goals, and of course the record. Maybe Allegri will remember now he's got one classy sub on his bench itching to go, always.
  • I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought Abate, for once, did great. He was pretty solid defensively, moved blazingly fast through his lane (something we don't really see Zambro do anymore), supplied Pato with quite good balls, and even had a couple of really good crosses. I never rated Abate as RB, but today he showed a good display, and when you've got Cristiano in front of you, that's two thumbs up for me.
  • I noticed the attitude of the team was completely different to the Madrid game. There was much better defending (in the first game we didn't lose 5-0 due to a miracle, in this one, the single goal on the first half was about fair.)
  • At least we didn't lose. The point isn't all that valuable (Madrid is pretty much certain to be first anyways), but if we assume Madrid will beat both Auxerre and Ajax, that means we only need to hold Ajax to a draw to make it through.
  • Ambro's back. This may be HUGE for us.


Negatives...

  • Pato's condition is worrying. Today he got plenty of clean balls, and never once won 1 on 1 (and considering most of the time he was up against Marcelo, who is defensively average... that's worrying.) No guts from him, and while it's true he got no service to make a direct finish, he was absolutely disappointing.
  • Allegri and his 4-3-3 is sickening. When Dinho drifted towards middle, we created our only chances in the first half. How he can't see the lack of link between midfield and attack is beyond me. I think he probably wanted to avoid the same mistake he made at Bernabéu, where Dinho was double marked in the trequartista position, but moving him to the left wing was hardly the way to fix it.
  • Ibra is for some reason missing easy chances. Needs to stop. Get your act together Ibra!
  • I thought Boateng was missing through much of the game. When Di María, Ozil, or whoever took the ball and led an attack against us, I'd see Rino and Pirlo trying to cover, and Boateng nowhere to be seen. He wasn't helpful in attack (short of that pass for the Ibra miss), and he was absent in defense as well.
  • Dinho was absent for most of the game as well. Between the midfield not getting balls towards him, him being stuck on the left wing, and a frankly nonexistent Zambro to support him in attack, he wasn't helpful.
  • All things considered, I don't think our future in this competition is by any means 'bright.'


I was all for giving Allegri time. But for the first time, I'll say it: SACK HIM!
vnata001
QUOTE (Linkman @ Nov 3 2010, 10:09 PM) *
Positives about this game...

  • Pippo showed his class and what he's made of! Great spirit, good goals, and of course the record. Maybe Allegri will remember now he's got one classy sub on his bench itching to go, always.
  • I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought Abate, for once, did great. He was pretty solid defensively, moved blazingly fast through his lane (something we don't really see Zambro do anymore), supplied Pato with quite good balls, and even had a couple of really good crosses. I never rated Abate as RB, but today he showed a good display, and when you've got Cristiano in front of you, that's two thumbs up for me.
  • I noticed the attitude of the team was completely different to the Madrid game. There was much better defending (in the first game we didn't lose 5-0 due to a miracle, in this one, the single goal on the first half was about fair.)
  • At least we didn't lose. The point isn't all that valuable (Madrid is pretty much certain to be first anyways), but if we assume Madrid will beat both Auxerre and Ajax, that means we only need to hold Ajax to a draw to make it through.
  • Ambro's back. This may be HUGE for us.


Negatives...

  • Pato's condition is worrying. Today he got plenty of clean balls, and never once won 1 on 1 (and considering most of the time he was up against Marcelo, who is defensively average... that's worrying.) No guts from him, and while it's true he got no service to make a direct finish, he was absolutely disappointing.
  • Allegri and his 4-3-3 is sickening. When Dinho drifted towards middle, we created our only chances in the first half. How he can't see the lack of link between midfield and attack is beyond me. I think he probably wanted to avoid the same mistake he made at Bernabéu, where Dinho was double marked in the trequartista position, but moving him to the left wing was hardly the way to fix it.
  • Ibra is for some reason missing easy chances. Needs to stop. Get your act together Ibra!
  • I thought Boateng was missing through much of the game. When Di María, Ozil, or whoever took the ball and led an attack against us, I'd see Rino and Pirlo trying to cover, and Boateng nowhere to be seen. He wasn't helpful in attack (short of that pass for the Ibra miss), and he was absent in defense as well.
  • Dinho was absent for most of the game as well. Between the midfield not getting balls towards him, him being stuck on the left wing, and a frankly nonexistent Zambro to support him in attack, he wasn't helpful.
  • All things considered, I don't think our future in this competition is by any means 'bright.'


I was all for giving Allegri time. But for the first time, I'll say it: SACK HIM!


bravo! we saw the same things.

bolded part: if he sucks on the left, and sucks in the middle, then what's the solution?
Linkman
Hmm see vnata, I won't make excuses: Ronaldinho was pretty darn awful on both games against Real. Yet I think we can see Ronaldinho kick serious **** as Trequartista.

The issue is distribution! How the ball gets to him, and what he can do with it. In the Bernabéu game, Ronaldinho was heavily marked. But before that: how many times did the midfield actually pass him the ball in the trequartista position? Like, how many times did Rino recover a ball and pass it to Dinho? Very few.

So Dinho has two options: he either backtracks, recovers the ball at midfield (sometimes even farther back), and then he has the entire pitch in front of him, and two red dots in the forms of Pato and Ibra at the distance, surrounded by 25 or 26 Madrid players of course. He then passes sideways (in hope of getting the ball passed back to him when he's farther up the pitch), or attempts a long ball, which are usually low on success rates if your attack is two guys against a 12-man defense. (If not, ask our own Unicorn on Ice Pirlo. I wonder how many assists a guy like him would have on, say, Ancelotti's Chelsea.)

The second option Dinho has is stay put, and hope to get a ball. This happened against real, I think... twice? And when he gets the ball, he controls, okay, he's got it. Then what? He's got two defenders on him. Turning around to pass to his strikers is a monumental task. He does his little tricks, some magic, shakes him off, raises his head aaaaand? Pato and Ibra swimming in a sea of white.

Okay, long story short, here's what I think is the solution: give the man some support! He can move and try to shake his mark so he receives the ball unmarked, but since he's the only man in that area, it'll be hard. Now, imagine Boateng running up aside him. Add in a full back, say Antonini, and one of the strikers goes a bit down, say Ibra.

Dinho receives. Now he's got only one marker, cause the other one's busy on Boateng. He can now pass to Boateng, shake his tag, and receive again, this time free. He raises his head, Pato's got a tail. But now Ibra is closer to him, so he can play off Ibra. He can try and pass to Antonini and make that diagonal towards the wing. Now Antonini can play him the long ball, or he can play him the short ball and have Dinho play him the long ball himself. Or Antonini can cross to Pato, etc.

Defenses have to adjust to all these possibilities, which opens up holes where we can strike, moreso with Dinho's pinpoint passes. But we need to support the trequartista, or teams will simply double mark him. A double-mark is a risky strategy because in theory it means you're letting a man free; but we don't take advantage of it by leaving Ronaldinho by himself. Even when he manages to get off the double mark, leaving the opposing defense two men short, there's no way to capitalize on it.

Anywho, my two cents. What I think could work.
han2503
QUOTE (Linkman @ Nov 4 2010, 06:41 AM) *

GREAT POST!

As for the double mark thing, the solution is pretty simple if you ask me, just let Gattuso do whatever the hell he wants, he's not a threat. And it's obvious that this is what every team is doing, it's why you usually see Rino with the ball the most, while Pirlo, Dinho, Ibra and Pato barely get a touch.

Our problem is in the midfield 3, play who you want, Robinho or Dinho, it won't matter at all, if they're not going to see the ball then they can't do Jack sh!t with it. Rino is a problem and imo, Boateng is just not ready for these games yet. He was someone that really disappointed me yesterday. I say an Ambro, Pirlo, Flamini for next game, and especially the one against Inter.

Also if we're going to play a 4-3-3 puke.gif then don't bother with Dinho. I don't understand Allegri, why he tried a 4-3-1-2 with Robs and now a 4-3-3 with Dinho? Just ridiculous. Yesterday we had such a big gap between midfield and attack I'm surprised we even got the ball to the attackers more then once. And the way Madrid were passing through our midfield was even more worrying. Rino for all his passion and drive just couldn't keep up. Boateng was a problem and Pirlo was left to try and do it all on his own once again
X-Offender
Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. rolleyes.gif
Dracoris
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 06:49 AM) *
Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. rolleyes.gif


With Ambro back I wouldn't count on seeing Flamini much. Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng is probably going to be the norm.
kurtsimonw
Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Just play the game FFS.
acid911
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 4 2010, 08:08 PM) *
Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Ditto. dry.gif Our club should be above such time wasting techniques. At most we should have just slowed the tempo down, got men behind to defend in numbers. Instead, the last 5 minutes were totally brainless from Milan. And as much as I hate to say this, but justice was served in the end:



The only thing that hurts more than the loss (I know it was a draw, but it felt like a loss), was the world talking about Mourinho's magic substitution, than Inzaghi's magic goals. sad.gif Gattuso's face of disbelief right after the 2-2 goal and the pindrop silence in the stadium was pretty bad too.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 4 2010, 10:21 AM) *
Our problem is in the midfield 3, play who you want, Robinho or Dinho, it won't matter at all, if they're not going to see the ball then they can't do Jack sh!t with it. Rino is a problem and imo, Boateng is just not ready for these games yet. He was someone that really disappointed me yesterday. I say an Ambro, Pirlo, Flamini for next game, and especially the one against Inter.

This post hurts my eyes! Gattuso who is one of our best players this season, plays and outstanding game versus Real Madrid, and then your reaction is ''Rino is a problem'? blink.gif And you're the one who says Ronaldinho is not a problem, but Gattuso is? Seriously, I cannot understand you in a million years when it comes to this. Gattuso is doing his DM stuff on world class level. Saying Flamini or any DM can do what Gattuso do also is being wrong and naive, but also is showing lack of appreciation/credit for Gattuso's awesome preformances - you underrate the defensive skills that a DM need and so you underrate Gattuso's preformances), killing many attacks including versus Real with players like Cristiano Ronaldo, and yet you want to bench him? dunnosmiley.gif

Gattuso is preforming very well for us, has an awesome work rate, both Ronaldinho lacks, and yet you treat Gattuso like this? Gattuso you can't wait for him to hit the bench, but Ronaldinho always needs to play? huh.gif

Without Gattuso we probably would have lost, without Ronaldinho we might have won. I know the flaws Gattuso got, but when it comes to his strengths, when it comes to the (huge) benefits of playing him, you seem to be blind for it. Gattuso runs more, works more, gets involved more, saves our butt over and over again, than Ronaldinho who fails to do what a trequarista should do. Playing Gattuso makes Milan stronger, playing Ronaldinho makes our team weaker.

QUOTE
I say an Ambro, Pirlo, Flamini for next game, and especially the one against Inter.

And start Ronaldinho, right? rolleyes.gif Benching Gattuso versus Inter is almost as stupid as playing Ronaldinho versus Inter.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Dracoris @ Nov 4 2010, 02:18 PM) *
With Ambro back I wouldn't count on seeing Flamini much. Ambro-Pirlo-Boateng is probably going to be the norm.


With Ambro back, I'm pretty sure Allegri will play Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambro. dry.gif

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 4 2010, 04:08 PM) *
Annoyed with the players more than anything after this one. There was no need to essentially cheat at 2-1 up. Every opportunity we got, we were just feigning injuries and trying to waste time. Not only is it not acceptable, but ultimately caused the winning goal due to added time.

Just play the game FFS.


Completely agree with you there.
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Nov 4 2010, 05:45 PM) *
This post hurts my eyes! Gattuso who is one of our best players this season, plays and outstanding game versus Real Madrid, and then your reaction is ''Rino is a problem'? blink.gif And you're the one who says Ronaldinho is not a problem, but Gattuso is? Seriously, I cannot understand you in a million years when it comes to this. Gattuso is doing his DM stuff on world class level. Saying Flamini or any DM can do what Gattuso do also is being wrong and naive, but also is showing lack of appreciation/credit for Gattuso's awesome preformances - you underrate the defensive skills that a DM need and so you underrate Gattuso's preformances), killing many attacks including versus Real with players like Cristiano Ronaldo, and yet you want to bench him? dunnosmiley.gif

Gattuso is preforming very well for us, has an awesome work rate, both Ronaldinho lacks, and yet you treat Gattuso like this? Gattuso you can't wait for him to hit the bench, but Ronaldinho always needs to play? huh.gif

Without Gattuso we probably would have lost, without Ronaldinho we might have won. I know the flaws Gattuso got, but when it comes to his strengths, when it comes to the (huge) benefits of playing him, you seem to be blind for it. Gattuso runs more, works more, gets involved more, saves our butt over and over again, than Ronaldinho who fails to do what a trequarista should do. Playing Gattuso makes Milan stronger, playing Ronaldinho makes our team weaker.


And start Ronaldinho, right? rolleyes.gif Benching Gattuso versus Inter is almost as stupid as playing Ronaldinho versus Inter.

Oh my oh my......

What does Dinho have to do with this???? The back 3 behind the attack is what will win you the game, and we can't do that if we're going to play Rino. This is just the same as you saying Honda is a great player, simply because he works and runs a lot! Just ridiculous! Maybe Rino is misleading you into thinking he's been "great" as you say rolleyes.gif because he's running a lot. But let me tell you something, he can run over a hundred miles in 90 minutes, if he's not doing his job and closing down the midfield spaces and letting Pirlo on the ball then he's useless as a DM.

Do you know how much it pains me to say I want Ambro over Rino??!! Ask kurt. But I can admit to things that are staring us in the face. You put the blame all on Dinho who was essentially playing as a left sided forward, but ignore the most crucial component of our game that failed. And that was the midfield. Imo we shouldn't have played just a 3 man mid. Dinho needed to be just infront of them, but Allegri stupidly reverted to the 4-3-3. Having said that it's still not justifiable how Khedira and Alonso practically strolled through our midfield

Rino absolutely must NOT play against Inter. Ronni or Robs? It doesn't matter which one of them plays, if the midfield 3 behind them is not right then we're as good as done for before the match starts. And the more Allegri keeps this sh!t up, with the 4-3-3 and Rino playing every 3 days the more terrible results we'll see.

You blame everything on Ronaldinho, yet I didn't hear a word out of your mouth when we imploded against Juve
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 11:49 AM) *
Considering it was Gattuso who lunched Ibra and Pippo in both goals, it's safe to argue he's playing in a position completely out of his capacity. I agree with han, Rino is one of our main problems. The guy played a great match yesterday in terms of quantity, but he should simply stick to his defensive duties. No need to try long balls or take part in the offensive manoeuvre, we have Pirlo and Boateng specifically for those tasks. He's not a box-to-box midfielder after all. And moreover, he's been playing in every single game so far. How's that rational? The guy is 32. We've got someone like Flamini who's being completely ignored by that rookie of Allegri. I remember the guy having a few offers last summer, but he stayed because Allegri told him he was part of the "project". So how come he's barely played at all? It's Yoann Gourcuff all over again. rolleyes.gif

Well like I said before the reason we're seeing Rino always on the ball is because opposing teams can offord to let him do whatever he wants and double mark Pirlo or Dinho/Robinho. It's pretty simple and even the dumbest coach around would know that this is the solution against Milan
CHU-LIP
Gattuso does more than just running, han, but that's all you can see and that's your problem and exactly my point.
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Nov 4 2010, 06:18 PM) *
Gattuso does more than just running, han, but that's all you can see and that's your problem and exactly my point.

Your problem is being obsessed with a player's work rate. When in reality they're not delivering what they should.

ie. if Rino is a DM then I don't care if he's running like a maniac, what I care about is him cutting out spaces, winning the ball and not letting Pirlo stranded. And he wasn't even doing one of those things. Did you see Khedira running like a dog all over the pitch in either game? No! But he got the job done a hundred times better then Rino did
vnata001
I agree with the last 6 posts (Kurt's, X-Offs, Han's, Linkmans, Acids). EDIT: upon further review, I did, until I saw a bunch more new posts had been posted. smile.gif To that ^^^ conversation I say this: People need to come to terms with Rino's mediocrity.

I'm probably beating a dead horse with this, but, my two cents is: with our forwards (Dinho, Ibra, Robinho, Pato) we can easily play a 4-3-3. I am currently of the opinion that we SHOULD, considering all of the forwards that we have.

- However, in such a formation, one midfielder has strict defensive duties. He should be fielded centrally, between the other two central mids, and slightly behind them in front of the defense. Moreover, he should NOT run around like a headless chicken. His job is simple, clog up the middle. Additionally, not only must he be a ball winner, he must also possess the small amount of technical quality it requires to pick out a possession ensuring pass. Sometimes, that means either 1) spraying a ball from one side of the field to the opposing wing's (attacking) full back allowing that full back to join defense to attack, or 2) when a team is pressuring high up the pitch, playing a quick one two (with either a CB or a midfielder) to create space for one of our CBs (both of whom are competent passers) or midfielder to play the ball forward.

Examples: Yaya Toure, Obi Mikel, Busquets, Khedira to name the best few.

- The other two midfielders must be box-to-box midfielders. They don't need to be the most ingeniously creative players like your Dinho's or Pirlo's. The qualities we need from them are high stamina, decent pace, the ability to play intelligent, not overly complicated passes into channels, make useful runs when in attack so as to support our wide forwards, be a threat to shoot from distance, and always track back relentlessly when possession is conceded.

Examples: Marchisio, Elano, Ramires, Essien, Gareth Barry, Stankovic

The dynamic of the two CMs would such that when 1) playing a team who drops 10 behind the ball forcing us into possession build up, the two create an inverted triangle with the DM. They slip into spaces outside the area where they force defenders (who must respect their shooting threat) to collapse towards the middle (creating fortuitous 2 v. 1 opportunities for our wide forwards and fullbacks), or 2) when playing in an open game, WE NEVER risk the counter attack. In midfield we would play a fluid 4-5-1, with one of the CMs and the DM ALWAYS back, while the other is given a little more freedom to attack with the front 3 and attacking fullbacks. Which of the two CMs goes forward is dictated by the run of play. This is why the defensive mid MUST have the quality to play sharp, possession ensuring passes. Our ability to play the ball forward (without a defender hoofing it to a forward hopefully) depends on our DM having these qualities.

Our wonderful AC Milan, is short of 3 players (another box to box, and 2 quality fullbacks) in order to make the 4-3-3 work. We play Boateng and Rino as our CMs, and Pirlo as our DM. puke.gif

Of the three, the ONLY player whose qualities match his position is Boateng.

-Pirlo is not a defensive blanket, does not think like a defensive midfielder. Therefore not only are his useful play-making qualities hidden, but his defensive short-comings become glaring. In the 4-3-3, he becomes a weak link in our team.

- Rino is a headless chicken. Defensively, his running is largely ineffectual - when in the past he was already sweeping the ball away cleanly, today he is now late to most challenges, being megged regularly, and committing tons of fouls. Moreover, he should NEVER be given duties in the attacking third. Even Rino of old was allowed no such duties.

With Pirlo rendered useless by the formation and Rino being useless in general, there's no f'ing wonder our 4-3-3 won't work. Even the 'tactically inept' Leo knew Rino couldn't play in a 4-3-3.

Proposed solution:

I must begin by saying that I truly still rate Pirlo as a play-maker. However, when taking into consideration the forwards that we have, and wanting for our team to play to their strengths without being an outrageously unbalanced side, we have no room for a deep-lying playmaker. Pirlo must be dropped in a 4-3-3. For Milan to rise to the top while employing a 4-3-3, Ambrosini and Flamini should rotate as that DM. Boateng should be a starting CM. A CM in the mold of the examples provided above must be signed.

Taking sentiment out of it, if we want to get the best from our 4 forwards, we need to 1) drop Pirlo, 2) never play Rino, 3) sign another Box-to-Box.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 07:09 PM) *
With Ambro back, I'm pretty sure Allegri will play Gattuso-Pirlo-Ambro. dry.gif

We should stick with Boateng, Pirlo and Gattuso.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 4 2010, 07:21 PM) *
Your problem is being obsessed with a player's work rate. When in reality they're not delivering what they should.

You underestimate the importance of work rate (hence you wanting Ronaldinho to play). Gattuso not delivering what he should? blink.gif What? If someone is delivering it's Gattuso. The opposite is true about Ronaldinho, yet you want the latter to play and Rino not. Don't you see how irony?
X-Offender
QUOTE (vnata001 @ Nov 4 2010, 06:24 PM) *


Or we could simply sign an AM and play 4-3-1-2.

Boateng - Pirlo - Flamini/Ambro
AM


I'm with han and vnata on Gattuso. Having a considerable work rate comes to nothing if you're not doing your job well. Rino is a DM, but he's being played as box-to-box. That hurts our game. His technical skills are ridiculous, and his positioning questionable. I praise him for all the will and determination he shows on field, but the guy can't be counted on anymore. Not if we want to challenge the big European sides.
vnata001
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 10:41 AM) *
Or we could simply sign an AM and play 4-3-1-2.

Boateng - Pirlo - Flamini/Ambro
AM


I'm with han and vnata on Gattuso. Having a considerable work rate comes to nothing if you're not doing your job well. Rino is a DM, but he's being played as box-to-box. That hurts our game. His technical skills are ridiculous, and his positioning questionable. I praise him for all the will and determination he shows on field, but the guy can't be counted on anymore. Not if we want to challenge the big European sides.


Definitely. I prefaced that with my point that we should play a 4-3-3. But in a 4-3-1-2, I wouldn't think twice about selling Dinho. In the post I just made in the Winter Transfers thread, you'll see I agree.
Fillipo Simone
When did Boateng become that popular? Last time I saw him play he was looking like an amateur in some occasions.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2010, 09:11 PM) *
When did Boateng become that popular? Last time I saw him play he was looking like an amateur in some occasions.

He's better than Seedorf, and also a better choice than having Pirlo between two DM's.
vnata001
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2010, 12:11 PM) *
When did Boateng become that popular? Last time I saw him play he was looking like an amateur in some occasions.


Well to answer your question about when he became popular, it was pretty much as soon as he debuted. By his second match, the San Siro already had a song for him.

And based on performance, a lot of our players look like amateurs in a lot of occassions. I think it starts with Allegri who (surprise, surprise) is an amateur.

But in the balance of good things and bad things, which of our midfielders has proven they deserve the playing time more than KPB? It's not so much his popularity at this point as it is, who else?
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 4 2010, 06:41 PM) *
I'm with han and vnata on Gattuso. Having a considerable work rate comes to nothing if you're not doing your job well. Rino is a DM, but he's being played as box-to-box. That hurts our game. His technical skills are ridiculous, and his positioning questionable. I praise him for all the will and determination he shows on field, but the guy can't be counted on anymore. Not if we want to challenge the big European sides.

I agree. But at this point in time and probably until next summer we'll have to make do with Dinho and Binho. I really believe that both systems could work if Allegri made the tactical changes required to use either player.

However, still the main problem is in the midfield 3, if that can't function you can bring in Messi/ Pastore, who ever the hell you want, it still won't workif the midfield cannot function properly
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE
But in the balance of good things and bad things, which of our midfielders has proven they deserve the playing time more than KPB? It's not so much his popularity at this point as it is, who else?

Yes, I agree, the present midfield needs Boateng. Still, I don't think he'll ever turn out into something special. Naturally, he benched Seedorf, which tbh. wasn't that hard this season. And yes, he's aggressive and modern, but...I don't see it in him.
acid911
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 5 2010, 12:21 AM) *
And yes, he's aggressive and modern, but...I don't see it in him.

True, he needs at least 3 years at this level to develop, maybe even 5 to become world class. unsure.gif Yesterday's match proved this, he was all over the park. A for effort, and C for efficiency. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's here, but I'm also sure the he needs time to become a benchmark midfielder.
ForzaMaldini
Just got back this morning from my first San Siro experience. What a match! Can't put it in words what goes trough when you see them play in front of you. I even liked Abate... And I think I'm in love with Pippo. biggrin.gif
The moment of the evening: he raised his finger and 83000 people around him got on their feet and screemed his name as hard as they could. Unbelievable.
ForzaMaldini
Some pics:





kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 4 2010, 07:11 PM) *
When did Boateng become that popular? Last time I saw him play he was looking like an amateur in some occasions.

Though I've only been able to see 5/6 Milan games this season, I have to agree. It's not unusual though, it's quite common for backups to become more popular without doing anything, just because the starter is playing badly.

He had a good World Cup and that's about it. His time in England was poor, and that's being nice.

Oh, great pics ForzaMaldini.
acid911
Absolutely great pics, ForzaMaldini! cool.gif Marvellous! The first three almost feel like home.
servbot
Awesome pics! Thanks for sharing!
William405
Oman,I hope one day I can travel to watch matches like this.I can't imagine what happened when Pippo scored the goals.
Zed.D
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Nov 4 2010, 02:43 AM) *
Pato should play CF, of course he sucks if he's not the one playing as CF. When he is getting his chances, he will score like a maniac! (unlike Zlatan)

Exactly.

I can't believe this. he's playing horribly on the right and Max just keeps playing him exactly there. it might be the biggest WTF about our season so far!
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