Since you asked....
(one post from the La Liga thread and one post from the transfer thread. The rest from this match thread)

nedved is out so unless we are unlucky 2-1 milan

nedved is out so unless we are unlucky 2-1 milan

I think most of what I have said in those posts are unbiased, balanced, and true (except the 6th one). but they've always said, 'truth hurts'. I should have known to be more careful...

Are you ready to discuss each of the quotes to see where it's unbalanced and full of venom? you accuse them to be, you have to tell why.

I don't think a single one of those posts is either unbalance, unbiased, or necessarily true. I disagree with most of your viewpoint -- which is my right. It's your right to have whatever view you wish, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily the only possible truth or that it's even correct. I happen to think you're dead wrong in a lot of what you say and I think there's also an overly negative and, yes, venomous and nasty bias. And it's my right to think that.

Lol . Tennie vs Zed.D












Imaooo , emoticons do speak..........

Fishdoll +1 cookie to 6Best. Bestest post in the thread.

Yes ! My first cookie !!!


Clever........

i didn't mean to start a war or anything

i'm just saying, it's one thing to criticize a team and it's another thing to say that this team will no longer be any good.

things will get better (they have gotten better)

Rookie.

I believe Chiellini handled the ball right before...

Didn't thoroughly read through the match thread, but aside from the team not performing to their best yesterday. Anyone else feels that we were wrongly done by the ref? (...On numerous occasions?)

I did not see that but it could not have been it, he must have said or done something nasty.


Apart from the awful decision to show red to Favalli (a decision I still cannot understand) and showing yellow to God ( ) I think the officiating was alright.

Only a couple of weeks ago we weren't even assured CL football, it is only due to the collapse of Juve that we have been able to get second place. I'll agree that we have done well in our previous seven games, but our form before Christmas wasn't all that inspiring.

On another note, are you happy with Arsenal's form? Do you just accept that without complaining?

TBH Zed, I can't see much wrong with what you've posted.

There's a difference between doing well and just doing better than before. The last few seasons have made this season look better than it actually is. A good season for a European giant is really competing in both Europe and in the league. Didn't enter the CL, but had a poor showing in the UEFA Cup. As for the league.. the closeness is misleading, even if we were to finish 1 point behind Inter, could you really say we challenged? No, we got close in the last few games as Inter dropped points, it's not like we were stride for stride with them all season. Competing is when you acheive on your own, not waiting for teams above you to fail, which is what I feel has happened with us this season.

We need a much, much better start next season!

No, but I have been through lows before. And I'm able to, rather than mull about the dark ages coming to us like a steam train, there's reasons to be optimistic. So could you, but it seems there's no hope for Milan anymore.
The club is fu*ked, end of story. No matter what happens during the summer. Because you guys already know what Galliani will or won't do.

Things aren't perfect at Milan ATM, but it could have beens so, so much worse.

+1 cookie to Locke. Much more eloquent than I could've put it.

Please, oh eloquent one, can tell me where either I or Zed or anyone else on here for that matter have said anything about the 'dark ages coming to us like a steam train' or 'there's no hope for Milan anymore' or even 'the club is fu*ked'? It seems to me that if anyone dares criticize on here they are deemed non supporters/fans. If I didn't care about Milan I would probably stay quiet and think management are doing a great job, but I do care and if I feel that management are not doing a good job then I will say so, whether others on here like it or not.

Oh and before you start all the 'I have been through all the lows before' I have with Milan as well, doesn't mean to say I have to agree with it though.

Very good post

Iross, the above-quoted post sure sounds all doom and gloom to me.


You and I generally are on opposite ends of the 'criticism level' spectrum - but while we may not agree a lot of the time, I hope there's at least general respect for one another's opinion.

And as I've stated many times before, I have NO PROBLEM with constructive criticism. Criticism for the sake of criticism and/or constant and unceasing predictions of doom....get awfully old and are just as distasteful as someone who is sunshine-and-lollipops all the time (and no, before you ask, I don't think I'm that way either).

+1

like i said, it's one thing to complain, it's another thing to think the sky is falling.

- we're in 2nd
- we've scored more goals than anyone else in serie a (and most assists)
- we've scored more goals than inter and have only allowed 3 more goals than inter
- we're actually winning games at home
- we have bright (young) talent

yea, we've dropped some vital points this season that we shouldn't have, but come on. it's not like this is the worst season milan has ever had.

do i think everything is perfect? no
do i think our mgmt has made some bad decisions? yes
do i think milan should move on from carlo? possibly
do i think we have a ways to go to catch up with the rest of europe? maybe...but i think a few holes will fix that pretty quick.

this doesn't mean that i think our run at being a european power is over...we all have disagreements with certain parts of the club...but don't say that we're finished.

,oh boy,...


Relative term. Only a few months back Barca was miles behind Real, now Real is miles behind Barca. Every seasons presents us a new "miles behind story", but I think you're a bit over the top with such a comment. I hate semantic discussions, but, just for the record.


Croatian commentary said Chiellini punched someone in the head. I didn't see anything.


Like almost every 2nd team does. It's simple logic. Milan getting second place means Juve doing bad.


I don't think Carletto did wrong yesterday. I found the game quite amusing and very good in all.


Wtf? Where does this come from? What has Locke done? I don't like this attitude in particular.

The part I bolded out is what I think got us into this 'mess' in the first place.

Getting the quick fixes instead of buying players that are adequate replacement for what we're losing.

We all knew at some point that a time when most of our starters would be at the end of their carreers, but all we did is buy the Favalli's the Ronaldo's, etc until we came to this point were the team needs a massive overhaul.

These 'quick fixes' is our biggest problem, now look at what we're facing this summer. Maldini retiring, with Nesta having the same strength as glass.

Favalli, Seedorf, Gattuso, Ambro, Pippo, Sheva, Janku, Zambro etc all eihter in their late 30s or approaching mid 30s.

I mean what are we going to do in the summer, reniew with all these players for another 5 years and say we're covered? And to top it off go around Serie A and buy a few 30+ player and then fly over to Brazil and bring in some kids that are never going to get a look in because ther're either really not good enough or Carlo doesn;t trust them?

Because this is what we've been doing, and to tell you the truth I'm pretty terrified of what this summer holds for us. Are we really saying here that our only think to look forward to (if you see it that way that is) is to wait for Beckham's return from the Galaxy far far away to make us some endorsment money?

I'm not going to judge and say we're going to be humiliated in the CL next season and all that, I'll wait until I see what happens in the summer and how the management will adress some of the serious issues that we are facing and then I will make a judgment. But as you can see from my post I am fairly worried of what the future holds, because something tells me that if we keep going the way we are, we might find ourselves in a worse situation then we were in this season.

Wo would you really keep from the current crop if it was actually up to you?

Personally I'm with zeddie on this one. I think few of our current squad players deserve the Milan shirt and are of the right standard to wear it.


I don't think Barca were ever miles behind Real, they always had the squad and the talent to beat Real anytime. It was the internal struggles with the coach and players that were the problem, their management acted on it quickly and but their losses, they removed the players that were problematic and changed coach and look where they are now.

I think they're a great example of how a management can be both pro-active and re-active. They immediately addressed their issues, not like our management who have been dilly-dallying around ours for years now. This isn't some new situation we're finding ourselves in, let's be realistic now, we have been here for 3 years and we are still paddling through the mud with no solution in sight.


If you want to just forget what we've been doing the entire season, then sure look at it from that pov. But looking at the entire picture, we certainly don't desrve second.


You know what I really found amusing yesterday?

A player playing so bad that he wouldn't even be picked for an ametour Sunday league, still stays on the pitch for nearly all of the 90 minutes. That was the most amusing thing. Carlo's decision to field Seedorf was a big mistake imo. And sure he scored but I would bet that had he not been on the pitch from the start we would have managed to score more then once. He was simply appaling yesterday, and personally I find it hurtful to see a player who doesn't give a cr@p still wearing the shirt and playing for Milan every week.

IMO the reason, why some members here are/were so depressed yesterday is, that they would have a reason to believe in us to win the scudetto. because if we had won it, we would have had a chance to get closer to inter.

and I think that we could have won this game, if carlo hadn't been too afraid of playing more offensive. he should have replaced seedorf (instead of pippo)with pato, because all pippo needed to score was another striker, who helped him up there. kaka didn't do enough. he played too much in midfield to be a help for him.

and the ref was just awful and biased....

but after all we're 2nd and I'm looking forward to see us playing CL next season..

Now I don't think it's doom and gloom, more like where we are now(without the BS). I admit it's premature to speculate on next seasons CL before seeing what happens in the summer - that said I don't particularly trust the management and if previous seasons are anything to go by then my expectations will be low.

To be honest you are usually pretty fair but I don't see the problem with what zed wrote.

Then we have an honest disagreement, iross. I think the statement was all doom and gloom, the team's f*cked, etcetcetc, and to be honest, I'm just really tired of what appears to me to be a constant stream of criticism without once noticing/mentioning that there actually are some positive things going on too (stuff like Pippo's goal explosion, Flamini's slotting in at RB, etc). Are there serious problems facing the club? Yep. But the constant (and sorry I really do think this is the appropriate word) venom just no longer seems accurate or appropriate.

Although I agree with the majority of your post I would change depressed to frustrated. It's been the same story season after season - we get a chance and we blow it through being negative. Although Juve played well we really should have beaten them, I realise that we didn't have much chance of Lo Scudetto but I wanted merda to suffer for a while longer

Like you say though, we are second and CL is almost done for next season so at least we have something to be happy about.

I never said that.



It's just an opinion, a debatable one. it's hardly BSing.

Oh shove off, those were Tennie's words.
It seems the examples you requested have already been provided by other members, and so I'll simply point to the fact that the "Apocalypse Now" faction here were still cursing Galliani and his Old Champions fetish, lamenting the impending arrival of Cannavaro, and this happened AFTER Cannavaro had been through medicals in Turin.
That attitude is, in so many words, EXACTLY what I'm fed up with.

This season is a failure?

Okay, one of the most decorated team in Europe might not have brought in silverware this season. Which is unacceptable, considering the status of the club and the ambitions of the board.

That said, there have been introductions to this team with the likes of Pato, Beckham and Flamini bolstering the midfield and attack. Additions of an attacker and a defender have already been made and they have yet to be played; Borriello and Thiago Silva. During the summer, I can see Milan further strengthening the squad, but not in the lines of “overhauling” as there is a solid foundation in midfield.


The club has always aspired to be on top and it has reached that status with history backing it up 100%.

I wont forget what one United fan was telling me the other day at work, while discussing the Champions League and United’s flight to success in that competition, he referred to the game at San Siro, that he was so confident in United beating this old team called Milan and only in the first five minutes of the game, he saw (and I quote) ‘the character of a team, not old and not young, but a champion team. ‘

Since then, Milan has gone through turbulent times, due mostly to Calciopoli, the recession in Italy during 2007 and early 2008, then a global credit crisis. Throughout all this, Milan stands today 2nd in Serie A, with only a mere 7 points separating it from 1st place. That, and considering where the team has come from both this season and last season, I’d say the future is bright.

Milan has always been protagonists -pre-calciopoli- both in Serie A and the Champions, and if it is safe to say the turbulent times had passed, then Milan should be challenging for top honors in the foreseeable future.


p.s. Enough of all this .. We are all here to cheer on one team. Not a few weeks ago everyone was ecstatic at overtaking Juve in 2nd. Enjoy this moment and then enjoy the summer, cuz that is all we can do

+1





Han the man took the words right out of my mouth. I accept that maybe I indulged in criticizing, I was so frustrated about the whole game and the result and shouldn't have made posts in the heat of the moment. but your posts sum up what I've been trying to say here. agree with every bit of it.

Agreed, we all say things in the heat of the moment after matches, but I do think that we need to let them be just that. I'm not criticising either you or Tennie, because I can see from where both of you are coming from. But we shouldn't make a meal of what is said in match threads after dissapointing matches. It only leads to arguments that keep going in circle. And I'm not sinling either of you out, because I have been guilty of doing this on more then one occasion.

@R7

I think it's high time we stopped using caciopoli as an excuse for everything, it's our faults we were involved in the entire mess and we have to deal with it. Same thing goes for the recession, it's not only Milan that went through it, it's every club out there.

Man U Milan in 07, is a game that brings goose bumps to my skin just thinking about it, but it's in the past, and that is the last time I saw Milan play like champions.

And sure we have history, but to simply just sit on our laurels and everytime we screw up we say we don't care, we have history, we're the most titled club in the world (not true anymore, but funny enough it's still being printed on the the damn shirts) and blah blah and not doing anything about the situation we've out ourselves in. This has been one of Milan's biggest problems, anytime things go wrong you here the usual thing, we're fine as we are, we're still the most titled club in the world, I'm sorry but that does not erase the fact that we were so bad in the league last season that we couldn't compete with Fiorentina for 4th. The reason for that being the squad that has been declining at a rapid pace, not being able to compete with Inter, Juve and Roma, it's all a vicous cycle, a lot of people here saw this coming 2 seasons ago, but the reply of most was, no we still have the best midfield in the world, we're a club rich in history, we don't need to change anything and so on. This attitude has really cost us in the end.

When it comes to tresults, nobody cares what the club has won in the past, sure it's a nice thing to have but the most important thing is maintianing the club's competitiveness, and Milan have not done that.

Second this season? A couple of weeks ago we had Genoa breathing down our necks and a niggling doubt in our minds if next season will be a repeat of this one. You can thank Pippo's sudden burst to form for saving our @sses.

I just think it's getting old to keep making excuses and using something like the club's history as an excuse, when it should be something to be proud of, not a safety net to fall on when we can't do any better then mediocre

Gonna disagree to an extent about your realpolitik view, han, but I really am tired of arguing the point. Seems pointless anyway and I've just had enough of the pervasive negativity.

Han

My view:

Wrong formation: Why always so afraid? Are Juventus so threatening we need 5 players in midfield? Pato should have started alongside Pippo.

Wrong faces: Seedorf and Beckham. The former I don't need to talk about, his displays are enough. The latter should not have played simply because with one player inside the box we would have never scored with a cross and he's really not all that good in defense. He's in poor form too.

Wrong substitutions: Why is Kaka untouchable? He was having a TERRIBLE game and was still not substituted. Seedorf should have come off too, he was hardly walking in the end.

Wrong attitude: Is this how a team "that can compete with anyone in Europe right now" (these are Carletto's words) should play? Really?

----

Where he had to make choices he only made mistakes. That was awful management, Guardiola's decisions against Chelsea look inspired compared to this.

Mostly ridiculous. I really hate does "deserve or deserve-not" label, because such discussions tend to bring nothing.

But the players designated - I mean, really. Pirlo, Ambrosini, Kaka, Pato and Flamini + some players not worth mentioning or just enough to invent a collective term like "few others". I don't know what to say? Is Kalac bad for 3rd choice? Is Dida bad for 2nd choice? Should I really go on, name after name? Such a disrespect is deeply connected with other perceptions, and I don't intend to re-open them, but just pointing out that I feel pretty much ashamed.

I must say, I don't agree. Everything I saw yesterday was fair and okay, no harsh error, no tacticall madness,...

I was away for a while so maybe I just forgot the hypercritic world of today and mf. Just need a few matches more and I'll be back on track.

I know that's why I bothered expanding on what I said. If you agreed I would be bored to do that...

Firstly, you don't have to feel pretty much ashamed for what I did say!!!

Secondly, I was talking about the starting XI and regular subs not the bench warmers!!!

Thirdly! disrespect is Seedorf playing like he doesn't give a hoot about anything anymore. that's more disrespectful to the whole club and most of its fans than what the venomous Milan Fan member (aka zeddie) naming some names which won't go further than a forum. disrespect

And finally, to each their own opinion. you don't like it, fine, ignore it.

- very nice explanation.

Okay:

1) Hmh, I know I shouldn't, still I do. That's how the world mostly goes.
2) Anyway, there's no need to make such selections and groups. The concept of Pirlo, Gattuso, Kaka, Pato and Ambro and Abbiati and "a few others" worsens the sense/logic of your statement.
3) Maybe, maybe not. But yes, this could be right. I'm not a normal fan anyway, so it would be very wrong to start with my opinion.
4) Don't give me multiple-opinion lectures, I'm well aware of what everyone can or cannot ignore

Dp. Sorry.

The rest of the world can burn for all I care. Tennie just said f*ck! All of y'all just got pwned!!

I'll just address the bolded points. Because the rest of it, is - while I don't agree with it- I can see your perspective.


1- Yes,every club goes through. How they handled it is a different matter. Man U regularly hits the 45-55 million mark every year on the transfer market. And I've shown you the Forbes club finance sheet to show you how they managed to do it. Having supported (still do actually) Newcastle and Valencia, I WILL NOT have my club take gambles mortgaging it's future to 'buy' trophies. Valuations 84% of the club's value as debt??!!!! Can you imagine something like that??

2. I do actually. Otherwise I would have been happy to support Chelsea and/or Manchester City. In fact we all ought to be supporting Chelsea/Man U in the EPL. Yet we don't. We cheer for Arsenal. I'm a nutcase- I cheer for Hull and Newcastle. If winning was a criterion for supporting a football club...it's weird. Ask Pana. He cheered for Milan after watching Juve demolish us 6-1. I watched Milan after seeing Maldini in the WC 1994. It's not about the cups, it's about the honour and prestige. It's why Inter will never be Milan, even if they win this scudetto and the next one. Because they can have the power of 10 Mourinhos and never replicate Milan-ManU: 3-0.

3. I don't get this point. In any league, the top 3-5 teams are always of relatively equal strength. You can never win a league without the others slipping up. Never. Manchester City led the Premier League some time back. Manchester United were 'breathing down the necks' of Hull City...in the EPL. Liverpool only got into the 'title chase' later because Man U f@cked up. Man U took the lead coz Chelsea f@cked up. And they kept it because Arsenal haven't gotten out of second gear this season. Hence by relation, I don't see this idea of 'challenging for the title' meaning you have to be neck and neck throughout the season (kurt's point). By that yardstick, you should say Capello's last Liga title, shouldn't count, since Madrid only came and stole it at the death. In a season, it's very rare for a team to play at a high quality throughout. There will be crests and troughs. You know this. You have to take advantage of the other teams's troughs and hope they don't/can't take advantage of yours. What's with this insufferable ego regarding Milan?? Just because this is the team we love the most, does not mean it's the greatest bestest footballing team ever by divine right and that anything less is a travesty- we would like it to be, but it can't. I love Keira, but does that mean I can blind myself to the fact that Scarlett's got a far more alluring bosom?? Or that Megan Fox still gets my heart fluttering (If she were British, Keira and I would have split!!)?

I can't help but wonder, if any other player besides Paolo had throttled Chiellini, would he have been sent off?

I think they would have been shown a straight red!

The ref was terrible, made so many errors and false decisions...just unacceptable IMO.

I don't think it deserved a red.