Agreed. The only player who didn't get worse with age from Carlo's team.

Don't totally agree there. He struggled in the last few years here, and didn't produce half as many great displays as he used to.

One fine tie he excelled in latterly was the Bayern CL (last 16?) match, forget which year. He was collosal.

Last season here, Nou Camp; made Messi look like a kid on the playground.

Nesta mostly had injury issues, that's why he wasn't able to really play regularly (but that has been true for most of his career), but when he played, he was still as cool, calm and gifted as he ever was, and he's also the reason why Thiago Silva flourished so much imo

Agreed. He was a world class player until the very end. Can't say the same thing about Gattuso, Seedorf, Kaká, Shevchenko, Inzaghi and the rest of the Carlo gang.

This I agree with. And well, you're not including Maldini in the Carlo gang, which he was not. But while I've always placed Nesta a notch below Paolo, he really is the second best defender of all time in my books. That's when he was not injured and all that. Because, boy, did he get injured like there was no tomorrow.

But despite that, the guy had it all. He may not have been at his peak in his final years, but he was still good.

Didn't get worse...

It's completely natural that players deteriorate, with only few to none exemptions. The problem with Milan, and I always stressed this matter, is that we never managed to find a balance between senators and younglings and that we had a whole generation of players who started deteriorate approximately at the same moment. Nesta was no worse or better then Costacurta or Maldini in his last days, in terms of "getting worse" or deterioration.

But the problem with Nesta always were his injuries. This was decisive in many aspects of his career.

Nope, Nesta ended it with a bang because he knew when to retire and didn't overstretch his stay, unlike Maldini and Costacurta.

Overstretch? It was because of Maldini we won the 2007 CL, where he ended up as the defender of the tournament. Seedorf snapped up the midfield award, and Kaka the attacker. Nesta, sadly, got injured at just the wrong time, but luckily made it back in time for the business end. Played remarkably well in the final.

Costacurta, I can understand in some aspects, but Maldini was still at top when he hung up his boots. Could match it up with strikers half his age. Did he make the odd error? Sure, everyone did it, including Nest and Silva at their prime. A lot of them also had to do with our squad that was showing cracks.

Recall how Manchester United scored goals from his side at home in the first leg of the semifinal when Maldini was substituted? In 2007. Or in 2009 against Arsenal in London? He was universally praised in the match, which essentially was his second last in the Champions League. It was his natural athleticism that saw him through.

Could he have retired a year or two earlier? Maybe. You can probably say that for most players this side of Nesta, who I thought still had it in him to play one season, two even. Which he did technically. But he should have stayed here and ended his career at Milan. Don't fault him for leaving, though, but he had it in him till the end.

Unlike most other players that you mentioned. Only Ambrosini came up in the list of two that I was okay with staying. As a sub. Others like Seedorf, Gattuso and Inzaghi were down and out by their last couple of seasons. Then again, none of these were defenders, as the ones in the back have a longer shelf life.

The key point there being that Nesta was a defender who mostly relied on positioning and awareness while the others were either hard working players or players who relied a lot on their speed/physicality.

Inzaghi for me can't be put into the same page, he was still just as capable of scoring in his last few years as he was during his heyday as he was never really an athlete.

Re: Maldini and Costacurta. I don't think Paolo overstretched. He was still a very good defender when he retired. Costacurta on the other hand had deteriorated a lot during his last few years

Sorry, but I thought Paolo was very poor in his last two years with us. Sure, he did have good performances, like Acid mentioned against Arsenal, but overall he was poor by Maldini standards. And that's because he was frigging 38-39 at that point. Unlike Zanetti and Totti, Paolo became very weak physically during the last quarter of his career. He was always getting injured, and his body couldn't take playing at high levels at such an old age. He should have retired in 2007, or at least in 2008 after winning the Club World Cup. He would have retired as a winner. The last year was completely unnecessary.

Too true, but then again, you're talking Maldini standards here. He was alrighty till his last match, though obviously not the guy that he was at his peak, or you know, the good years. Was I glad that he played that extra year or two? Oh yeah, you bet. Nesta doing so would have delighted me too.

Once in a lifetime players, maybe once in eternity, in terms of talent, mentality and dedication!

He was pretty lousy by the time he retired in all truth. 2007 was the end of Paolo at his best and for the next two seasons he was making a lot of fouls, being caught out of position, and generally was nowhere near up to scratch. Plenty of calls for him to be dropped.

Not surprising given he was 87 by this point.

87? Yeah, after so many years, he really should have retired

I'll answer you guys my perspective in a few hours, when I'll find the necessary time.

*whole of MF stops what it's doing and sits waiting eagerly for Pippo's verdict*

I disagree with most of the opinions here. I don't regard deterioration and bad seasons as the same thing. I don't think Maldini had a poor last couple of seasons. Yes, his body gave up, but he still had his talent and vision, his character. He deteriorated, he wasn't a match-winning gem, but he still was a integral part and had a overall more positive impact on our game and play.

Should he have retired earlier? Who's me to say? It's his decision and I'm glad he stayed as long as possible. Because what was the alternative? More Bonera, more Kaladze, more Marzoratti?

Old Firm tomorrow. Wish me luck!

Only been waiting 3 years for this. Biggest Old Firm match of my lifetime.

Good luck!

Indeed. I can imagine the excitement for you after all these years, Dan.

Thanks you two. If we win this...given how bad we are, and how much Celtic have to lose...monumental it would be.

Fingers crossed for a good result.

Would loved to have watched but same time as Arsenal-Villa unfortunately. Maybe I'll watch the last 80 minutes when we're already 3-0 down.

We were predictably horrendous. I'm actually pleased it was only a 2-0 loss.

Sorry about Villa Kurt.

Don't be. I've lost interest in football. Haven't even been to a game yet.

Football in general?

When the two teams you support suck @ss for years I'm not surprised.

Yeah. The money being thrown around these past 6/7 years was killing it, FFP has buried it. It's not even a Villa/Milan thing, it's just the general way football has gone.

Have to agree here. This is the sentiment I also feel is getting me.

Why watch then?

COUGH RANGERS and COUGH MILAN!

I'm still supporting! More out of sadomasochism than anything else mind you. I need help.

I'm still supporting too, even though I don't really care anymore.

I don't follow exactly.

But let me be frank, you're just pretending to be all macho about it the real Eastwood.
Someone who doesn't care usually also doesn't need to say it out loud. I think we all care, but we've lost perspective and hope.

I agree with Pippo on this.

But that hope will return if we just get a fucking manager!

Pippo's the worst manager since pre-Berlu.

He's a total disaster.

Man, you haven't seen Tabarez and Giorgio Morini

Honestly, I don't. Last night every time we scored, and even when Parma scored I felt zero emotion. I didn't really care whether we won or lost. The only reason I keep watching, reading news and discussing on this forum is because I've been supporting this club for 16 years now, and I'm not going to stop now, even though this management is trying their hardest to do so.

They managed 36.36%.

If we discount Sacchi's terrible second spell (29.17%) trying to fix the remnants of that previous diabolical regime (impossible), Pippo is the worst manager since...Radice. 1982. 26.09% win rate.

There's no contest here. He has a stronger squad than most of the the pre-Berlu age from late 60s onwards (AKA our first CL title) but you're looking at guys like Marchioro, Viani (even this one is unfair as it's in 58 and similar to Sacchi's failed return - he already had the Scudetto the previous season). Way down the annals of Milan history. Pippo ranks among the worst managers in our history, he is that bad.

I know your comment was tongue in cheek but the numbers Pippo's achieving are frightening, and they're with a much stronger squad than we mostly had pre-Berlu.

Should have kept Clarence.

Should have fired Galliani.

Hmh, the table you send looks funny. I don't trust the numbers. Firstly, Morini is missing, along with Cesare and Terim. Secondly, the numbers on Leonardo and some others seem awfully strange.

It wasn't comprehensive. Look at this page which is.

The picture I posted is Serie A only, the url list above includes cup. Thankfully, for Pippo as his cup results shift his win rate up from 31 to 34.

Do we really need comparisons to tell that Pippo's record thus far has been absolutely appalling? In any other club he'd have been a goner, but not here. He's Galliani and Silvio's pawn, their 'Yes-man'. Like Galliani said, only if a biblical catastrophe happens he'll be sacked. We're stuck with him till the end of the season...

A Biblical catastrophe did happen. We Lost to the City of Atalantis.


I'm here all week.

Might as well close this topic for good now.

Argentinian league? Brazilian? Who knows. No need for closure.

OK, fair enough.

Something I don't understand. Maybe it's because I've not been watching football so much these years anymore, but with the department of Ronaldo, why is Bale still playing on the right side? As originally Bale was Spurs MVP as left sided forward/winger.

Did he get used/adjusted well to the right side, that it sincerely has become his better side now? Like Arjen Robben style?