Yeah it is. It's: FACT...

Henry is overrated anyway no seriously, I prefer Trezeguet. always have.

Not sure anyone has noted it in this thread (sorry, been up since 3am my time for the inaugual stuff) but Sinisa Mihailovic has a touchline ban for the Bologna game so he'll be watching it from the stands.

Ha-ha! He's gone crazy, we made it Zed!

Form and fitness. Players who would help us win. Also rotation, my friend. There's also the small matter of looking towards the future, but that's for another day. It's one thing giving a guy like Flamini a chance when our regular DMs are injured, and completely another not playing him months once the usual suspects return. Give Ambro and Gattuso a rest once in a while (so they don't get injured), and also substitute at least one of them after 60 minutes flat each match, depending on the game scenario.

What Carlo doesn't seem to understand is that there will come a day when Ambrosini and Gattuso will retire within an year or two of each other. We just have to have someone prepared for that day. Adjusted to our playing style. Still, I won't comment on Flamini's situation, there is still lots of time. It's not like he's going anywhere. Neither is Carlo, nor our regular players. There are also those Uruguayan fellas we signed, to warm the bench. Fingers crossed, we get some sorts of rotation going.

I think acid's post here answers you better then I could have on what bases I would pick players to start.

No one can know what happened back then at Juve between Carlo and the player, that being said, him forcing a young player out or not giving him the chance to establish himself. Both aren't really things you should praise Carlo on...

And you tell me which player other then Kaka has Carlo ever given the chance to shine in his teams when they were at a young age and were unknowns.


Sorry man but I hate Trezeguet

Top of my head- Crespo(21-22 yrs), Pirlo(22-23 yrs) and Pato (19 yrs)

O.K you can scratch Pato off the list if you want.

Crespo wasn't 21-22. Besides, all these were known or hyped players. They had a history.

The point Han and I are trying to get across is unknowns that Carlo blossoms into superstars. On his own. So much so they can be called Carlo's players. The Gourcuffs are another matter, I'm talking about Darmians, Paloschis, Cardacios, Viudezes, the Girmis, the unknowns who he saw talent in, and then nourished that. Oh, he likes his established players alright. He likes to keep the Brocchis and Emersons happy. Which isn't necesserily a bad thing, guys like them are here to play. But at the expense of first team players (when they are out inured or are resting). Not the youth.

It's okay, he can't be Arsene Wegner, and you may even argue that finding and coaching youth isn't in his job description, but at the bare minimum give them their just chances. Tell one established player to take a month or two off, completely, so he can be fresh for the tougher matches. Tell Seedorf that. Tell Pirlo that. inter did it with Ibra? Why wait for them to get overworked and injured, then rest them? Why not before? I dare him to play any of these youngsters as either starters/or last 30-minutes appearances over a period of six months in ALL matches. No, let me say that again: ALL MATCHES. Tell one lad that he'll play the whole six months, give him confidence and space to shine. Only then can you judge a youngster; only then can we not complain about Carlo's approach in this regard.

Carlo is a darn fine tactician. One of the very best. But he's also a darn bad man-manager. FACT. I'm out.

No honestly. Pirlo was a flop, we purchased from Inter. It would be like getting that Lloria from Roma, and suddenly having him make a name for himself.

Crespo was an unknown too. An unproven talent, and without the kind of media spread in those days, you could say he was an unknown in Europe.

Well I'm cool with having youngsters play for all matches, but then you shouldn't tell Carlo 'CL/Scudetto or it's your @ss!'. Arsene Wenger has that luxury. So does SAF (granted he's earned it!). In that they have unwavering faith of their fans and board to do whatever the F they like.

We already know that for our board Carlo is just another employee on par with the other team players. His word has value within financial limits. So Emerson means Brocchi. Ribery at his peak means a work-in-progress R80. And a Sheva replacement means Oliveira.

As for fighting for his needs, I don't think it would make a difference in Italy. Mourinho's already have two spats with Moratti, and really it's his reputation that's keeping him in his job. If he doesn't deliver anything he'll be gone by next December.

Well okay .. You don't need me to convince you otherwise, but when Carlo brought Zambrotta in from Bari, he applied the same meathod, he made a left fullback play on the right. And Zambrotta was just reaching recognition at the time, and today can play equally well both at right back and left back.

I can see the same meathod being applied to Antonini ... Is it ridiculous ? I don't think so, cuz there might be something behind the curtains, Antonini could very well turn out to be a great option both for the left back slot and right back.

As of now, the player has been doing better on the left, but with time you never know

Here is Gazzetta's projected lineup:

Abbiati
Antonini Favalli Maldini Zambrotta
Beckham Pirlo Ambrosini
Kakà Seedorf
Pato

Pirlo and Bonera are both 1 yellow away from suspension. Given that the return leg of the derby is 3 matches away, wouldn't mind one of them (especially Pirlo) picking up the yellow now so there aren't any worries about them playing against the cugini.

You know, you may actually have a point here. Good post.

Crespo was at Parma, when you're at that kind of club you really can't pick and choose. And Crespo was already pretty established at the time even though he was young.

Pirlo was only a flop at Inter he had already beun playing the DM role at Brescia when there was Baggio. He was a very highly regarded young Italian player that went to Inter, where they always have 2 big players for each position, so it would be obvious he would fail there playing in attacking mid position, the same thing happened to Seedorf there and he was already a big player that won 2 CL. Sure Carlo gave him another chance playing in the position he's most comfortable in. But at that time Milan was being rebuilt, Carlo's Milan was being built, Nesta, Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui, Pippo, all these players were either brought in the season Carlo came or the season before that so all were relatively new faces.

And Pato is a different thing all together, Milan paid big money (for a 19 year old who had only played a handful of time in Brazil) for him, Carlo couldn't not play him. We also were bare in the striking department, Gila was shooting blanks, Pippo and Ronaldo were both always injured. Had the situations been different like for example Sheva was still there scoring goals, and Gila also, Pato wouldn't have gotten a look in. He barely got a look in last season when Pippo was fit.


Antoni has a really weak right foot, every cross he makes is either over hit or under hit, he makes defensive mistakes that he doesn't do on the left when he's playing on the right. Zambrotta, really established himself as a left fullback under Lippi. And I think he's equally good on both sides, it's not Zambro that bothers me playing on his weak side, it's Antonini, he's 50% less effective on that side.

There is no justifying this decision, you have a fullback that is good on both sides, but one is not on his weak side, so why play him there???

I know sometimes it's more of a forced choice on Carlo because of the brilliant idea we had to loan Oddo, but when both Zambro and Antonini are playing there is no reason why Carlo should play them in their weaker positions.

Antonini is a second string player anyway. He's mediocre on the left and he will never be more than that on the right.

Dude you've got to stop comparing every LB in existence to Paolo and Carlos ok?

True, but why give that player an even harder time playing him in a position where he is clearly uncomfortable playing?

I think that players like jankulovski mustn't play in a team like milan, he is defensivly like crap (vucinic played with him and many more, Juventus match, same story ecc ecc), he is good in his offensive dutys but deffensively he is a crap and he can't play in the likes which want's to become the best team in the world. Favalli, same story (exepting the offensive part). So we have a defensive problem, and i think we must tray to put bonera, antonini and mattioni in fire, so we can have best players in the future, becouse they can't be worst than jankulovski, favalli and so on. So my team for this mach would be:
Abiati
Mattioni(antonini) Bonnera Maldini Zambrotta

Flamini (ambrosini)

Beckham Pirlo

Kaka Ronaldinho

Pato

Welcome?!

thx m8!

Today's practice has taken place.

Most of the players who took part in yesterday's friendly did work in the gym. The others had an intense workout with drills and attack v defense exercises. There was special attention paid to crosses and shots on goal.

Borriello took part in part of the training with the team (not sure if it was workout or the attack v defense). Kaladze did some running.

Alessandro Nesta returned to Milanello, was welcomed home by his teammates, and did a series of tests.

Beckham playing obviously has to do with matters other than his fitness and abilities. He does bring motivation to the team though and we desperately need that.

We practice shooting? Then how come we never shoot in games?

Has Kaka ever had captain's armband throughout his career at Milan?


I Think it would be allright to give him an armband only once for this game, to somehow thank him

To thank him? Oy.

No, he's not worn the armband.

The order of precedence is (off the top of my head)
Maldini
Ambrosini
Gattuso
Kaladze
(Shevchenko, if you dont count the 2 years at Chelsea)
Pirlo
Inzaghi
Nesta
Kaka

kaladze

That's why I think seniority should not the only factor.

Ah. Clearly I didn't see that game. when's it from?

I don't have an issue with him being captain if the same criteria are applied to him that have been applied to others. Maldini, for example, was captain of the Azzurri for years before he was captain of Milan. He had to wait too.

Portsmouth. even though he wore it only for a few minutes!

(In that game, he was given the armband ahead of Pippo IIRC - after he was substituted, Pippo got the armband)



I agree. only I think likes of Abbiati and Kaladze should not be ahead of him even if they've been here for a longer time.

Sheva has lost the right to wear the armband as you can see Gattuso wears it ahead of him, while before Sheva left Milan it was the other way around.

Fishdoll's scared. We're agreeing again, zeddie.

It's Ambro then Gatto and then Ricky for me. I believe Kaka would make a better captain than the two ahead of him but they are more than capable to bear it themselves, they are Italians and... well, they are ahead of him.
Kaladze does not deserve it, it does not seem to me like he's a player that gives his all every time.
Pirlo and Inzaghi are not truly the leader type.
Seedorf is ahead of Kaka too but a captain is one that drives his team forward not one that requires a whole team to push him to move forward.
Sheva... I'd be disgusted to see him wear the armband, I do not even consider him for that role.

My personal choice for next captain would be Nesta. If he can stay fit and if he wishes to be (seeing as he is Lazio's former captain) that is. But before my personal choice comes hierarchy, Ambro must be Milan's next captain.

Not to mention his [sometimes] cheeky behavior.

Before Sheva left, he was vice captain along with Costacurta... Right now he is not even a vice player...

I believe after Maldini, Ambrosini will become captain and Gattuso and Kaka vice captains.

I'm sorry to disrupt your captain's armand debate, but I have to respond on this one:

1.)



When Ancelotti took over at Parma it was Crespo's first season. He was established just like every other Argie, who came up with a pretty good goal-score record from River/Boca. Nothing special in other words.
Parma had, as strikers - Chiesa, Crespo, Zola and Stanic, so the selection wasn't bad either.
And finally, yes, Crespo was 21-22. We are talking of season 1996-97, Crespo was born in 1975.

2.)

You're mixing up things. Pirlo played for Brescia till 1998. Baggio was still at Bologna. Then Pirlo moved to Inter where he fail cause as you said Winter and Simeone bocked him. After that he made a good season as AM at Reggina, came back once more to Inter where Winter and Simeone were already gone, so the DM wasn't covered enough, but failed again. Afterwards he went on loan to Brescia, were he played with Baggio. His career at that moment seemed to fade. I think Pirlo's rise has a lot more to do with Carletto then you'll admit.
Fatih Terim and Washington Tabarz were also coaches who had to rebuild, and look now...

3.)
Jack gave you Crespo and Pirlo, because you said Kaka's the only one.
I'll add a few:
Lillian Thuram - made debut for Parma while Ancelotti was coach with 24 years
Gigi Buffon - it was his first season as No.1

In fact, Carlo Mazzone's line up for Parma in 1995 was:
----------------Bucci (Buffon)----------------------
Benarrivo---Apolloni------Cannavaro------Mussi

Ancelotti's line up was:
---------------------------------Buffon (Bucci)-----------------------
Benarrivo (Ze Maria)---------Cannavaro---Mussi---------Thuram


So he basically gave Buffon and Thuram a chance right from their start. So most of the comments made on Ancelotti were based on false assumptions.

Like I said, about Carlo's Parma days, you can't really compare them with being Milan coach.

You may think I have some sort of anti Carlo agenda, but that's not really what this is at all.

I was talking mainly about Pirlo at Brescia when he played the DM role there, Carlo and Pirlo have both talked how they discussed his position when he was brought over to Milan, I credit Carlo to turning Pirlo into the final product we see today, which is imo the best deep lying playmaker around (when on his day) but it wasn't Carlo that invented that position for him.

And I was never talking about the old Carlo at Parma, the guy who lead a club like Parma to 2nd in Serie A (even though back then he had a wealth of young future stars playing for him) I'm talking about the Carlo that has managed the big clubs like Juve and Milan. At Parma you have much more liberty with giving young players the chance, at Milan and Juve its different, that's why I say Carlo is afraid to give these young players a chance. To my recollection Kaka has been the only young player to come out of nowhere at a young age and break into Carlo's teams at the big clubs, and not only that, take the place of a player like Rui Costa, a big player and a record signing for the club.

I credit Carlo with reviving Seedorf's carreer when it was going nowhere at Inter, Pirlo's also, giving Kaka the chance to shine. I credit Carlo with a brilliant couple of seasons as Milan coach mainly the CL win in 03 and the scudetto in 04. Those were 2 brilliant seasons where we played arguably the best football in Europe.

Having said that I think Carlos time with Milan is up, has been for a while and imo, should have left after the 07 CL win on a high and be remembered for being one of the best coaches in this club's history not for a coach that has over stayed his welcome.

As for you comments on Crespo he had already had a great reputation during the time Carlo had him at Parma, he was a hyped up South American that Carlo gave the chance to, and he scored goals, just like he always does. Like I said, it's easier to give the chance to strikers as opposed to midfielders and defenders, a striker you can see the results immediately if he's scoring goals, where as a defender or midifleder you have to assess performances on longer periods of time

Right...that's what I mean han. It's different in Italy at the big clubs. Imo...none of the big clubs in Italy really give youth a complete chance. I mean I consider Giovinco to be a far bigger prospect than Gourcuff, but how much has he played for Juve this season?

Mourinho despite his un-Italianness hasn't played a lot of youth (forget Balotelli and his foolishness leading him to be dropped).

In fact the only exceptions- Roma and Fiorentina (not really a BIG club, but still...) are both clubs whose resources don't permit them to buy top players.

I already mentioned the points about Wenger and SAF who enjoy almost complete autonomy in their clubs. Barca have admittedly got the best youth system, and I will agree that is something we need to look at imbibing. But it's not easy to walk a thin line between youth training and constant victory.

P.S: Anyone know when the press conference is for this match?

Brilliantly put.

*cough*De Ceglie - Marchisio*cough*

(not to mention Chiellini (he didn't start his Juve career as the best CB in the world. he became that while playing for Juve though) - Sissoko)

And Giovinco has done well every time he's got a chance.

See I don't particularly care about who coaches Milan right now. I just pipe up, when everything is blamed on Carlo. There are quite a few negatives I find in him as a coach, but that's later.

Why Carlo should stay now, is because there isn't anyone else, who can prove remotely good. I have my reservations about Rijkaard, Spalletti and Prandelli being viable. Donadoni? I think everyone will be aghast. MvB...has balls, but not till he does something in Europe.

What I fear the most is Carlo if he's fired/leaves, could just stroll to Chelsea/Man City who'll happily get rid of their current coaches and hand him the reins. And this time, it'll be different. It will be HIS team. This means if he asks for person X, he won't get person X two years later or even a 'replacement' for person X who is second rate.

I'm talking of Brocchi (for Emerson), Oliveira (for Eto'o) and R80 (for Ribery...so far the best transfer).

And more importantly Carletto gives teams with money (only?) the kind of credibility they need. Man City with Mark Hughes in charge and Man City with Carlo Ancelotti in charge is a different monster altogether. Same with Chelsea. With Scolari their appeal is limited to perhaps Portugal and Brazil, but with Carlo?

To fire Carlo, without a proper alternative in place is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

DISCLAIMER: All of the above IMO

+1 (but I don't think it was even neccessary...)

This game, according to the Bologna website, is sold out.

Tagliavento will be the referee for the game.

There will be one training session today. The pregame press conference should be tomorrow.

So.. still Carlo is the only man on planet Earth that can coach Milan

acmilan.com says it's sold out as well, and asked all fans to come in early. Tomorrow huh? Wokay.

A joke or exaggeration?

I can attest that. Han rather liked Carlo when I first joined/started visiting Milanfan. It's evident from his earlier posts. Only recently, after our disappointing string of performances, has he revised his opinion. Still, let it be clear there is no anti-Carlo agenda, at least from us. It would be terribly unfair of us to disregard all that we've won with Ancelotti, all the moments we've shared, all what we've accomplished.


Hey, I said that. This-strikers-getting-results-immediately-by-scoring-goals thingy!

A bit of both, I reckon. I don't like the guy or his antics one bit, but if you ever give Mourinho this Milan side, I'd be pretty surprised if we lost more than a handful of matches. Thing is, the Portuguese can motivate players, which I'm not quite sure Carlo can at the moment.

You're referring to the 'You're all sh!t!' episode I presume. I can just imagine Mourinho going into the locker room with players like Maldini, Kaka and Seedorf and tell them 'You're all sh!t!'.

Nah..skip it...like I said, I don't like Mourinho for a lot of 'subjective' reasons which will be countered with his stats. So we'll just forget it.

The impression (LOL) I get when I read you and Jack's posts. when [according to you guys, not me] some of Europe's best coaches like Rijkaard, Spalletti, Mourinho, etc. are not able to replace Carlo and coach the team any better than him, who else in the world can?

As a coach? Yes. By all means! He's their teacher, he's their master. When he's coaching he can say all these things, when he's not then not. It seems awkward for us fans saying this, but don't tell me your teacher never told you you were really bad in a test. Even though he/she knew you were one of the very best students in the class.

There always should be a line between the coaches and the players. Otherwise you end up like Seedorf.


I don't like him much either, and besides I was only using him as an example. There could always be more coaches that I could have compared with. Personal opinions withstanding, Mourinho is a darn good tactician. So is Carlo.

Why are we having a go at Carletto in a match thread?