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han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Feb 16 2011, 03:47 PM) *
Well I don't get your opinion either. Flamini played more then 60 matches for Milan, and I can count you on my fingers how many of them were actually something good. All our DM make more superb or great matches pro season.

He's younger (although soon to be 27), granted. He's been left out, granted. But I don't see the spark in this guy. He's actually doing nothing. Rino runs like a madman, and that costed us yesterday, but it saved our butt more then once. Ambro can do defending and can score, he's up there fighting and he's a real footballer. What has Flamini done to desreve your infinitive patience and trust han? Was he so good 4 years ago that he still has credit?

You speak as if he played such a big role this season before his injury. Well yes, he was great in a few occasions, but that's about it. Yes, he was better then Rino or Ambro, but hey, the injured and washed-out senators are hardly competition.

It's not that I expect him to make tons of assists and play like a allrounder or something; tell me is he in his own department really that good? Is he a real destructive DM?

Why don't you just say that you don't like him and never really wanted him at Miln and sav ourselves the time it would take for me to try to point out reasons of why I believe he's good, andyou countering it with why you believe he's bad, when the real crux of the matter is that you just never were really a fan or even tolerated him
dst
He was disliked because Wenger used him at LB and he was always going to be useless there with the limited skills he has. They sure loved him in his last season there.

I think his style is more suited to the EPL, he does not seem to have adapted to the tactical approach of Serie A. He was amazing that night at San Siro against us though and that's probably what convinced the management to get him.
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Feb 16 2011, 04:02 PM) *
Seems like I'm the only one here but I think Flamini played OK last night (aside from that horrendous challenge and some unnecessary fouls).

Let's just say he wasn't part of the group that contained out bad performers. Flamini is someone who really get criticized a lot
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (han2503 @ Feb 16 2011, 04:03 PM) *
Why don't you just say that you don't like him and never really wanted him at Miln and sav ourselves the time it would take for me to try to point out reasons of why I believe he's good, andyou countering it with why you believe he's bad, when the real crux of the matter is that you just never were really a fan or even tolerated him


Why? Because it would be a lie! I liked Flamini very much and never had a predetermined judgment on him. Why play so personal now? I really don't think you're able to say what you did in your last sentence!

I only dislike when people put too much hype around someone. That's why I was very cautious with him, after I saw Domenech, Ancelotti, Leonardo and finally Blanc and Allegri passed by him.

I'd be as much happy as if Pippo would come back and score tons of goals if Flamini would finally return into his Arsenal form. But hey, 4 years passed, and I think if he was that kind of a big talent, he would have shown his skill, even against all other odds (injuries, coaches,...).

Sorry if I wasted your time once more.
Milan Are Brilliant
QUOTE (dst @ Feb 16 2011, 03:04 PM) *
He was disliked because Wenger used him at LB and he was always going to be useless there with the limited skills he has. They sure loved him in his last season there.

Only when they had that mad spell of injuries, think that was his first season. Think he even played right-back at one point in that season!

His problem was Wenger didn't use him regularly, he was always one of those players who'd sit on the bench and come on at like the 70th minute. He excelled in his final season when he got the nod and got regular football.

Unfortunately he doesn't get that at Milan and I think he's a player who thrives on the pressure of being a first-teamer as oppose to one putting up a major challenge for the first-team spot, at least that's what happened at Arsenal.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Feb 16 2011, 04:13 PM) *
Why? Because it would be a lie! I liked Flamini very much and never had a predetermined judgment on him. Why play so personal now? I really don't think you're able to say what you did in your last sentence!

I only dislike when people put too much hype around someone. That's why I was very cautious with him, after I saw Domenech, Ancelotti, Leonardo and finally Blanc and Allegri passed by him.

I'd be as much happy as if Pippo would come back and score tons of goals if Flamini would finally return into his Arsenal form. But hey, 4 years passed, and I think if he was that kind of a big talent, he would have shown his skill, even against all other odds (injuries, coaches,...).

Sorry if I wasted your time once more.

Sorry if you got offended by that but I just had to say it because I know how this will go, we'll go back and forth when we both know that (I won't say like) I trust the player, while you don't trust him over others.

Alo mentioning Carlo and Domenech in that sentence is a flawed argument, Domenech had an agenda against players who played in Italy, it's why Mexes rarely got a call under him as well. Carlo loved the old gaurd of Rino and Ambro and would have never benched either of them for the new comer. Leo usually used 1 DM and last season Ambro was not someone he would have benched because he was in probably the best form of his career. When he needed another DM on Flamini was the one on. Allegri has played Flamini when he's fit most of the time, I wouldn't say that he's passed him by.

Again sorry if I offended you, I usually get the same stick when I don't kiss Ambo's @ss, because I never really liked him as a player or rated him so it seems like my argument isn't even valid, and when you talk about Flamini it just seems that way as well
anano1214
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 16 2011, 01:40 AM) *
Oh, so someone makes a harsh tackle and is suddenly the black sheep? Flamini's performance was on par with the others. Just because he made some foul doesn't mean he's a disgrace . This is football, rough interventions are part of it.


+1

QUOTE (arivanjj @ Feb 16 2011, 01:56 AM) *
i think flamini might've been fired up for the tackle cause just seconds eariler ibra was brought down n foul was not given.



+1
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (han2503 @ Feb 16 2011, 06:06 PM) *
Sorry if you got offended by that but I just had to say it because I know how this will go, we'll go back and forth when we both know that (I won't say like) I trust the player, while you don't trust him over others.

Alo mentioning Carlo and Domenech in that sentence is a flawed argument, Domenech had an agenda against players who played in Italy, it's why Mexes rarely got a call under him as well. Carlo loved the old gaurd of Rino and Ambro and would have never benched either of them for the new comer. Leo usually used 1 DM and last season Ambro was not someone he would have benched because he was in probably the best form of his career. When he needed another DM on Flamini was the one on. Allegri has played Flamini when he's fit most of the time, I wouldn't say that he's passed him by.

Again sorry if I offended you, I usually get the same stick when I don't kiss Ambo's @ss, because I never really liked him as a player or rated him so it seems like my argument isn't even valid, and when you talk about Flamini it just seems that way as well

Yes, I get it. Thing is, I get irritated by him, because IMO he's simply doing to much and ends up either invisible or yellow carded. I agree with most of the things @Milan is brilliant said, but I hope it still can change. Just that I belive this year is his last chances. Ambro and Rino's careers slightly fade and he's made better performances this season, but overall, if we want to establish a winning team and if Flamini doesn't show up consistently, we should get a proper italian DM, Serie A has plenty of them who are quality.

No harm done, everything okay smile.gif
X-Offender
I've seen Fillippo criticize players like Flamini, Boateng and Robinho this season, and at the same time praise corpses like Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini. Sorry man, I have nothing against you, but I think most of the time it's just your feelings talking.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 16 2011, 10:21 PM) *
I've seen Fillippo criticize players like Flamini, Boateng and Robinho this season, and at the same time praise corpses like Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini. Sorry man, I have nothing against you, but I think most of the time it's just your feelings talking.

Well, football is mostly feelings. Sorry, don't tell me it's a science or I'll... puke.gif instantly.
I think you all get me wrong, my criticism is mostly because I want to put some light on the other side of the medail. And there's always one. According to some here, Ambro, Rino or Oddo are obsolete and old and therefore useless, while Boateng, Flamini or Abate should be put on a pedestal and celebrated because of their youth. Well, I don't think it's that simple.
X-Offender
Well, that's mostly because Abate, Flamini and Boateng are in fact better than Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini nowadays. I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure most of us will concur about that.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 16 2011, 11:13 PM) *
Well, that's mostly because Abate, Flamini and Boateng are in fact better than Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini nowadays. I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure most of us will concur about that.

Let's have it your way...
dst
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 17 2011, 12:13 AM) *
Well, that's mostly because Abate, Flamini and Boateng are in fact better than Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini nowadays. I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure most of us will concur about that.

Abate is so mediocre it's laughable that he plays for Milan. He's an athlete, he can run very fast, but as a footballer he's just bad.

I'd pick Oddo ahead of him and I don't rate Oddo.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 16 2011, 11:13 PM) *
Well, that's mostly because Abate, Flamini and Boateng are in fact better than Oddo, Gattuso and Ambrosini nowadays. I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure most of us will concur about that.

Or let's not. Look, maybe they are momentarily. But I don't forget what they are or were capable to do. And within these parameters Oddo is and always will be better then Abate, Ambrosini the Flamini and Gattuso then Boateng. It's stupid to compare them. You cannot compare giants with work-in-progress beings. And yes, I prefer them over the mentioned ones. And I still rate them, unlike some here. I perfer Marco van Basten over Ibrahimovic anyday too.

But did I ever state anywhere this season Ambrosini or Gattuso should be indesputable starters? I just play down the hype around Flamini and Boateng, because in my eyes and with my experience they are far from being fix starters.
While Thiago for example has done amazing good stuff and surely is a fix starter, like Pato should be (when in form) played logicaly before Pippo.
X-Offender
Like han mentioned, Flamini was one of our better players this season before he got injured. Boateng had an outstanding two months after a difficult start. They've done much better than Gattuso and Ambrosini, and thus they should be starters. Plain, simple logic. We're talking about the present, not the past. Then, if you fail to see the good in any of them, well, that's your problem.
Fillipo Simone
Read my posts better. The last sentence was not neccesary, but you had to make it clever, didn't you?

For the last time - yes, so far they've done good in some periods. And yes, both should be put infront Rino and Ambro. But does that solve our midfield problem? I don't think so.
X-Offender
Yes, it does. biggrin.gif
han2503
Only Pirlo will solve our problem. Flamini, Rino, Ambro and Boateng are all the backup to Pirlo's simphony, without them it won't be good but without Pirlo it just does not work at all. Until we get him back we'll continue to have trouble. But imo Flamini and Boateng are the ideal duo to be backing him up at this point in time. Ambro has had a terrible last couple of months, while Rino is always up and down as of late. Flamini and Boateng provide the ideal energy to play next to Pirlo
kurtsimonw
I agree han, which is why we need to get rid of Pirlo too. We're too one dimensional with him in our squad. He's quite a unique player and you pretty much have to build a team around him, it makes it awkward to have a Plan B.
Fillipo Simone
I know you guys like Flamini, and he did a solid defensive job tonight...but hey! He connected the game in our counter strikes terribly! Gattuso compared to him is a creator if you look at the match tonight. I really expect more of him, not just destruction.
KillerMax
He is a disappointing player to watch in the modern game. He was smiling like an idiot after coming on not realizing he is actually doing badly. One good tackle doesn't justify his total lack of tactical and technical abilities. I'm just wondering what he was thinking in a couple of those plays? Boatang is very solid defensively and is an absolute threat when attacking. In comparison, Flamini's tactical awarness and technical ability when going forward is inexplicable.
acid911
Can't say I disagree. sad.gif I still like him, but the guy has major performance gaps to cover up, or else Flamini can be out sooner than the time it takes him to write Mathieu. Let's see at the end of this season.
X-Offender
Suffered a muscular injury, will be out for 15 days and thus miss the derby.

Link
Fillipo Simone
When will we play the Bayern game?
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 24 2011, 09:51 PM) *
When will we play the Bayern game?

July 26
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 24 2011, 06:33 PM) *
Suffered a muscular injury, will be out for 15 days and thus miss the derby.

Link

That means Gattuso starting on the right dry.gif
KillerMax
I'd rather see Gattuso on the field than him.
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jul 24 2011, 09:24 PM) *
July 26

Thanks smile.gif

QUOTE
I'd rather see Gattuso on the field than him.

Finally. +1
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 24 2011, 09:28 PM) *
That means Gattuso starting on the right dry.gif


I think Gattuso would have started either way.

QUOTE (KillerMax @ Jul 24 2011, 09:29 PM) *
I'd rather see Gattuso on the field than him.


han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 24 2011, 09:37 PM) *
I think Gattuso would have started either way.



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Wanting Gattuso on the field over anyone is just crazy talk. tongue.gif

Flamini at this point is simply put the better player.
il_diavolo_mtl
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 24 2011, 05:03 PM) *
Flamini at this point is simply put the better player.

+1 000 000 000

i can't think of a single argument i've most had to recycle, re-justify and re-analyse.
X-Offender
Flamini out for 5 months.

Link

unsure.gif
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 26 2011, 04:54 PM) *
Flamini out for 5 months.

Link

unsure.gif

Maybe this will push them into buying a CM
KillerMax
He was playing pretty nicely in the pre-season. It's a shame this happened. Rather it was Gattuso(I know, Flamini changed my opinion), but it's strange to wish injury on anyone. Anyways, we have too many oldies as DM's. Van Bommel, Rino, Ambro... Even though Van Bommel is still great, I don't see these players withstanding a fast team like United. And we don't have an anchor anymore either so we can't really dictate the play that well either... I wish we would buy a quality midfielder.
Fillipo Simone
Yes, another mediocre player like Parolo rolleyes.gif

I know you don't rate Ambro or Gattuso, but there's not really much difference in having to faded world class DM's or two limited mediocre DM's.
X-Offender
Don't remind me of our old midfield. We have four players over 33! Man, how annoying is that!!
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 27 2011, 01:51 AM) *
Don't remind me of our old midfield. We have four players over 33! Man, how annoying is that!!

Well, never then less...it's how it is.
han2503
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 26 2011, 11:55 PM) *
Well, never then less...it's how it is.

Yes, we should give them all another extension to keep it that way devil.gif
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 27 2011, 02:21 AM) *
Yes, we should give them all another extension to keep it that way devil.gif


Absolutely! Long live the "has-been's"!
CHU-LIP
Really a shame he gets an injury like that, because I expected him to be obvious better than both Ambrosini and Gattuso this season. And I would be pleased with a new midfielder even it's a so called mediocre one. We simply lack midfielders now in my opinion. Ideally we sign one who has the potential to become a future starter.
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Aug 27 2011, 01:16 PM) *
Really a shame he gets an injury like that, because I expected him to be obvious better than both Ambrosini and Gattuso this season. And I would be pleased with a new midfielder even it's a so called mediocre one. We simply lack midfielders now in my opinion. Ideally we sign one who has the potential to become a future starter.

I don't see a lot of those types lieing around...
acid911
QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 27 2011, 06:18 PM) *
I don't see a lot of those types lieing around...

Oh, I'm sure they lie once in a while, being human and all. laugh.gif They are not lying around, sure, agreed.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 27 2011, 03:18 PM) *
I don't see a lot of those types lieing around...

I read a rumour about Leroy Fer yesterday. He's 21 year old midfielder from Feyenoord, and I rate his potential highly. For now he would be nothing more than a backup, like Strasser would have been if he stayed, but since Strasser got loaned out, Flamini got long term injured, Calvano also injured now, and Merkel also not here (though no defensive midfielder, yet a midfielder too), I would like Milan signing Fer. Feyenoord don't wanna sell him - he's very important to them - but they have to when offered just a few millions (which is little for Fer, but much for Feyenoord).
X-Offender
I don't think we need a new DM to cover Flamini's absence. We simply sign Kaka' and retreat Boateng to that position. It's the most ideal solution.
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Aug 27 2011, 02:22 PM) *
I read a rumour about Leroy Fer yesterday. He's 21 year old midfielder from Feyenoord, and I rate his potential highly. For now he would be nothing more than a backup, like Strasser would have been if he stayed, but since Strasser got loaned out, Flamini got long term injured, Calvano also injured now, and Merkel also not here (though no defensive midfielder, yet a midfielder too), I would like Milan signing Fer. Feyenoord don't wanna sell him - he's very important to them - but they have to when offered just a few millions (which is little for Fer, but much for Feyenoord).

Yeah read that as well, but I don't think our management are that creative, he's not the type of player we usually go after.

That's why I have my hopes on Monto coming now or in January.

We'll see, but atm, I don't get how Galliani and Allegri can say that our transfer market is closed. What happened to those Honda rumours? I know you rate him highly, I personally think he'd be a good squad player at this point since we're so short in midfield and the Kaka thing is looking like media talk more then anything else
han2503
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 27 2011, 02:25 PM) *
I don't think we need a new DM to cover Flamini's absence. We simply sign Kaka' and retreat Boateng to that position. It's the most ideal solution.

Agreed on that, however, I do believe that we're one CM shot from really doing some damage in Europe. We have a lot of what ifs in our midfield. And Kaka is not the most reliable player around with his injury troubles
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 27 2011, 03:28 PM) *
Yeah read that as well, but I don't think our management are that creative, he's not the type of player we usually go after.

That's why I have my hopes on Monto coming now or in January.

We'll see, but atm, I don't get how Galliani and Allegri can say that our transfer market is closed. What happened to those Honda rumours? I know you rate him highly, I personally think he'd be a good squad player at this point since we're so short in midfield and the Kaka thing is looking like media talk more then anything else

I would welcome a CM instead of a DM too. We need to add a midfielder, and I believe Honda would be a very good addiction since he can cover both AM and LCM, and will increase creativity in our squad. If we don't sign Kaká, I hope Milan goes for Honda, but I think he would be expensive to sign this Summer. CSKA rather sell him in January, I figure. And shame is, we need a new midfielder now, January is too late in my book. I read a rumour we have a verbal agreement with Montolivo to join next Summer. Which is nice, because now we already have a free replacement for Seedorf then, yet I would liked him now already, or now someone else instead eh...
han2503
QUOTE (CHU-LIP @ Aug 27 2011, 02:33 PM) *
I would welcome a CM instead of a DM too. We need to add a midfielder, and I believe Honda would be a very good addiction since he can cover both AM and LCM, and will increase creativity in our squad. If we don't sign Kaká, I hope Milan goes for Honda, but I think he would be expensive to sign this Summer. CSKA rather sell him in January, I figure. And shame is, we need a new midfielder now, January is too late in my book. I read a rumour we have a verbal agreement with Montolivo to join next Summer. Which is nice, because now we already have a free replacement for Seedorf then, yet I would liked him now already, or now someone else instead eh...

But won't he be cup-tied?

Well I just read on MN that we're waiting for the last minute on Monto, Fiorentina will get desperate when no one offers them a good fee. That's when Galliani will supposedly swoop in...

Who knows at this point, but at this moment, I'm really not confident going into our season with the midfield as is.
CHU-LIP
QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 27 2011, 03:57 PM) *
But won't he be cup-tied?

yes sad.gif

If we sign another midfielder, which we should, it should be now and not in January.
Fillipo Simone
Honda? That rumor died a long time ago, why even consider it?

With all due respect, I don't think we need a Feyenoord kid right now either; we could have kept Strasser if this was the case. What we need is a quality DM, maybe not this season or until January, but in near future yes. Ambro and Gattuso ain't getting any better, and I see us parting ways with Flamini next summer.

One CM away form damage in Europe? Hmh, not sure. We still lack both creativity and defensive coverage in midfield. One person cannot give us the needed push IMO, cause we need a creator (a real one, a maestro) and a new Gattuso. Also, I don't think our fullbacks are good enough, I know many will disagree, but Taiwo and Abate are still not defensively tuned, while Zambro isn't getting any younger.

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