I think third was possible. If we'd stuck with a stable defence and hadn't used so many wasters in rotation elsewhere the team might have actually won a fair few games.

It showed in glimpses the quality of the top teams, but the inability to settle with the same back four for more than one match on top of rotating near enough every other position as well as some of the most dismal substitutions I've ever seen meant the squad underperformed to frankly ludicrous degrees.

This was a certain fifth finisher with the right management, and an outside bet for that CL spot, but Pippo just made mistakes so frequently only Menez' 3422 penalties bailed him out in 30% of the occasions. The other 70 we either lost or drew.

Nobody can ever convince me that we weren't/aren't

Roma? Have been p!ss poor throughout the new calendar year

Napoli? So inconsistent that the only way they're going to finish third is by default being the best of an inconsistent lot.

As for match winner, think of him as you like, Menez is that type of player, and he's won us a lot of matches.

At worst we're a EL side at best we should have finished 3rd.

Problem is, not only did we not play to our best abilities and sometimes even beyond them - which is what is needed when you don't have a particularly great side - but we underperformed so badly that even teams who barely even have half of the luxuries that our team has, performed better than us. And I'm not even talking about Roma, Napoli and Inter here. I'm talking about teams like Fiorentina, Samp and Genoa. Who have been a lot better than us and they don't have the talent that we do or a deep squad like we do. Add to that Fiorentina had to play in the EL as well

But I don't get your argument here Han. You disqualify Roma as piss poor this year and Napoli as inconsistent. So what? Milan has been, in Dannys favorite words, abysmal, diabolical... I don't get it.

To me, the key is that we could have taken advantage of other teams being inconsistent. Let me explain ...

We have 43 points, right? Roma 64, Lazio 63, and Napoli 59. So, to be a CL contender we should be at 63-64 points.

Looking back, we should have gotten 3 points at home against Genoa, Atalanta, Sassuolo, Palermo (losses) as well as Samp, Verona, Empoli, Genoa, Inter, Fiorentina (ties). Add to that 1 point away against Udinese, Palermo, Fiorentina. So, leaving results from direct matches against the top four teams unchanged, (if my math is right) that's 27 extra points, which would put us a clear second at 70. Leave room for a few mishaps, and we would still be in range. Does not sound like much of a stretch, really (and arguably there are some away games that we should have won).

So, yeah, this year in Serie A we could have been third.

Because had we played even to half of our potential, we'd have done better this season. Had we done that we'd be in the EL spots. Had we played at a 100% throughout the season we'd have gotten 3rd

That's my argument, I don't understand what's difficult to get really. With the rest of our direct competitors being so unstable had we played to our potential we've had gotten there

But not only did we not play at even 50%, we cruised the season at barely 20%. In terms of effort, passion, tactical and fitness preparedness we were an utter mess. That's what I mean when I say we played at barely 20% of our best potential.

Thank you for putting my thoughts in clear math.

Not only that, you have to factor in that we had zero other commitments this season aside from Serie A. We even half @ssed it in the Coppa. A competition Pippo was giving huge importance to as it could have been a gateway to Europe should we fail in the league

Aha, now I get. So you think we played only 20% of our potential, whereas Roma or Napoli or Fiorentina played more percentage with less potential?

Nah, I cannot agree with this wholeheartedly. Sure, like Forza said, we did have many chances with the opposition being inconsistent. But I still don't think we have a team that can be 3rd. Not with a much better coach then Inzaghi. Simply put, backbone players like Montolivo, Mexes, de Jong - all of them are IMO burnt out. This team was a problem long before Inzaghi came in. Yes, much change happened, but the backbone players remained, and none of the showed for the last 3 years enough passion, intelligence and leadership quality.

All in all, the problem with Milan, beyond the obvious managerial one, is that we have a team that is neither blessed by enough individual quality (yes, Menez can be decisive, but his selfishness, his overdoing things is almost nullifying this effect) nor is it a working unit with a strong mentality.

And think about it: we had mentality problems with Seedorf and Allegri as well. It's been what, 3 years since we had a relatively stable squad.

I don't think a experienced coach has a magic wand. And sometimes it's simply best to eliminate certain disruptive or incompatible elements, even if they, on paper, present a potentially good thing.

About mentality problems and burn-out, I could argue that the same could be said about Juve pre-Conte. Amazing what can be done with a coach that knows how to motivate players .

I think the problem with Seedorf is that he rubbed some players wrong (particularly some of the ones you list as burn-outs), they complained to management, and Galliani used that to re-assert himself (if you remember, he was supposed to be on his way out). I think Seedorf backed by a supportive management structure could have done much better for us (get rid of the whiners, and rebuild around the rest). Don't get me wrong, I don't think Seedorf was good enough to take us far, but I believe he could have gotten us at least to EL if he had been given half a chance for one full season. (And yes, we should be aiming higher than an EL spot, but given where we are right now even that would have been preferable.)

What hurts is not the fact that we are losing to Juve, Roma, Lazio, or Napoli. Rather, it's losing to the likes of Atalanta and Sassuolo. We are tied to Palermo FFS, surely even with *this* team we can do better than that ...

What hurts is that we have gone from bad (early part of the season) to horrible.

What hurts is that even with reduced revenue (no CL or EL, empty stadium) we are still one of the top Serie A teams in revenue, yet we are crap on the field.

How dare you put de Jong in the same bracket as Montolivo and the rest! In his three seasons with us the guy has been nothing short of outstanding, by far our best performer and a true professional. Burnt out my @ss!

And I thoroughly agree with everyone else. This team has been underperforming for two years now, and it largely falls on who's been managing us. Allegri, Seedorf, Inzaghi, either too sh*t or too green or just too clueless. We've never had a proper manager since 2009 for crying out loud. That's six years! And even Carlo was past his due date since a while.

I want us to get someone good, experienced, with ideas and vision, and who knows what he's doing, not another experiment that will most likely lead to nowhere but the middle of the frigging table again.

Agreed.

However, I would like to add:
- We need to get someone ASAP (like right away after the season is over, if not sooner), and they need to have a strong influence in this summer's transfers (assuming we even get a budget for that). If this summer turns into yet another soap opera and we do not get moving until August, then we will have problems.
- We need someone with the right experience and background. Some managers will do wonders when they have a decent team to work with. We don't have that. All we have is a bunch of misfits cobbled up together with no clear plan or commonality (other than we could get them on loan or at "parametro zero"). So we need someone who can build and motivate. Reason is, we are unlikely to be able to replace the entire team, so we need someone that can work with what's there.
- The new manager needs to have full support of the ownership as well as management. Anyone we get that is any good will try to impose their own way, and (most likely) that will cause friction with some of our "key players". If the club backs the players rather than the manager (which is what happened to Seedorf), then the manager will fail, no matter how good he is

By his own collosal standards, this has been far and away De Jong's worst season with us.

I dare. It's surely not the same bracket, but de Jong is vital on paper, just like Mexes and Monto. And he's been considerably better, but he still isn't right for us. He's a old fashioned limited DM who could be a gem in tournaments like the WC or in superstar squads like Madrid or United where everyone else can and will do what he can't.

But all in all, I'm not so enchanted by de Jong. Work rate? That's about the only thing he managed to do consistently. Again, it's a big thing, don't get me wrong. But was he able to make more influence on the game? Even rile up the team like Rino and Ambro did? No.

As for the manager argument: so Inzaghi is the sole person to blame for you guys here? Well, we agree to disagree then. Gee I'd give anything to stay as we are and try the next season with Spalletti. I'm 100% positive 3rd wouldn't be our position.

It's not what I think, imo it's a fact that the players were barely strolling it for most of the games, especially these last few months. 20% for me is generous. You really think they went out there and gave it their all in pretty much any game during this season? Even just 50%? Because for me that's a no. There is a reason why we're so sick and tired of watching the team and why most of us can barely stand to watch the games these days. Had there been even an inkling from the players that they want to be out there and are fighting tooth and nail for their shirts then imo most people wouldn't be so indifferent to the games. At least if you know they're trying out there you don't feel like you've just wasted 2 hours of your life after watching a game.

And no, I already agreed that a new coach isn't a magic wand, not unless he's someone like Conte. A new good coach would have made the difference had he come in after Allegri, before things spiralled so badly. Now it will take a lot more than that, but having someone competent and prepared will still make a huge difference compared to having someone who has zero experience managing a pro side.

And yes, I do think Fiorentina, Samp, Genoa, etc played well within their potential, or even above it. They've certainly done much better then us with an inferior squad. Didn't say that about Napoli and Roma. I said they have been very inconsistent actually which is what should have allowed us to fight for that third spot. Roma imo are simply better than us at this point, Napoli and Inter for me are in the same boat as us. Nothing spectacular but good enough for Serie A. The fact that Napoli couldn't even qualify for the CL says it all. Like Forza said, had we won the games that we very realistically SHOULD have won we'd be in 3rd now at worst 4th. Still EL is acceptable for this squad. I don't mean to say that we're a sure thing for 3rd. But had we been more prepared; mentally, physically, tactically we would have done a lot better

Oh and as for the players.

No doubt Monto was a huge flop this season, the handful of games he played were bad barring just one of them, not to mention the entire time being out injured

De Jong? really? One of our best players this season still, he's been below par these last few months but who can blame him? The season was finished for us a while ago, not to mention he won't be here next season so why should he be giving a cr@p when the others clearly don't?

As for Mexes? I feel bad for this guy. Clearly our best defender this season and clearly shows more dedication on the pitch than most, and yet he still gets the brunt of it from people while others who are more deserving of the ire simply slide on through. So once in a while he loses his head in a game, at least it shows that he gives a f@ck that the team is playing bad. For me, I don't think Mexes is a bad apple in the locker room, not once have we ever heard something against him or that he did something that would be considered a bad influence on others. The only thing bad about him is that he's a loose canon on the field when things start to get tense. But again, at least I can usually expect the best out of him, unlike many others.

De Jong. But overall, did he leave a good impression? Best in what way? He tried more in comparison to the players you say didn't play even half of their potential?

My god, Fillipo. De Jong is a pure DM, an anchor, someone who helps the defense, pressures, recovers the balls and makes the simple pass. He's not Pirlo. And in that regard, he's done his job in the best possible way. There's not a single negative remark I can make about him. What more did you expect from him? To carry the team by himself and win games single-handeldly?

Even this season (when everyone and everything's been rubbish) he's been really good. It just goes to show you how much of a professional he is, and how much dedication and effort he puts in his performances, and how good he actually is, performing well when the rest are massively underperforming.

Leave de Jong alone!

Well, I remember times I criticized de Jong for not doing more then his limited and you used to agree. It's only now that somehow de Jong got untouchable here.

But honestly, is there really nothing between de Jong and Pirlo? You can call upon God how much you like and want, but I think de Jong is a relict of old times. Can there be a similar player found in top teams? This is not the 80s, DM's nowadays do more then just pressing and destruction. Look at the good playing teams, all of them try at least to make their DM's as versatile as they can get.

But well, we disagree here as well, so...

Then you're criticizing the type of player he is, not his performances per se.

Yes, imo De Jong always gives his 100% in each game. Only these last few months his performances have faltered from being so consistently good at the start of the season. But that's only to be expected when the season is over and he won't be here beyond this season.

And what do you mean by a good impression? You mean during his time here at Milan? Or this season?

Oh and I think x-off is right here. You're criticising the type of player he is rather than his performances

Now don't get me wrong. I completely agree that no big side should be playing with a. more than 1 DM - which we did very often this season, sometimes even with 3 and b. that a DM in today's football should be more versatile. Every top side uses that type of DM now.

It's why I spent nearly 3/4 of the season harping on about why Pippo shouldn't be playing Muntari or Essien next to De Jong, or even at times all 3 together (Allegri did it as well).

Still I think De Jong, even in today's football could still be a huge asset for any team as long as there are other good creative forces around him his limited style would be an asset rather than a hindrance. Problem is we don't have those creative players next to him, we have other limited players, which is why our midfield has been an abomination since we lost Pirlo imo

Just checked livescorwle, apparently, we're winning

Yes, same. I completely forgot about the game.

The match I showed the least interest in for a long time and we went and bloody won.

Against admittedly an absolutely horrible Roma side who, if they'd started the season like that, would be where we are.

Did you watch it?

Yep forgot about it too. Was at a restaurant..and I look at the screen..it's Milan winning 2-0..

I did.

How was the performance in general?

I totally forgot about this as well. Reading about it, sounds like Roma went missing until the last 20 minutes, and Honda did well. Is that a fair assessment?

I watched the second half. It wasn't as bad as our last showings, but nothing worth writing home about. Roma were pretty bad too, very sterile upfront.

We nearly conceded on 40 seconds, when Abate got totally exposed and Lopez had to pull off a great save. Had we lost that we'd have caved.

But we managed to maintain some semblance of the unit, even though we offered next to nothing up front. Oddly it was probably the best Honda's played in nearly 6 months.

Destro cut his usual frustrated figure with a lack of service, but the one genuinely good chance he got he buried, and he bloody enjoyed it.

Defence was haphazard but it got the job done well enough, and the Honda assist for the MVG goal was good work. It was never a penalty but it was given anyway, and Totti was so lucky it went under Lopez who guessed right.

And yes, we got deeper and deeper as the match went on but Roma never looked close to being a threat all evening really.

Match was pretty passionless, as was the atmosphere, but hey, a win's a win!

First was much the same really. Sterile is an appropriate adjective for Roma. And yet they've somehow creeped back into second place.

Shows how dreadful Serie A is that a Roma team that mediocre can be second.

Oh PS Pippo was sent off.

have received 2 newsletters from milanstore since last night's win

they had been quiet for a while.

Milan Channel highlights


Yeah, he was actually pretty good, and not just for the two assist.

Thanks ^^

Lunch time kick off tomorrow... Meh, don't even know if I'll bother to watch

6:30 am start for me. Skipping it is the easiest choice in the world at this point. Not worth losing sleep.

Good God, we really should buy this Berardi guy. He's like cryptonite to us.

Very harsh on Bona. Red

Yep.

Hattrick for him now

Isn't he a Juve player?

lol, 2 reds for us. Suso off.

Sassuolo like to be part of our imploding moments

He's good, so yes, he's probably a Juve player.

what a season...

I think we should just forfeit the last 2 games so this nightmare can finally be over.

I honestly wish Pippo to continue. I'm not sure we can do better.

Anyway, SES with a nice finish. Good to see him back

Would be good to see him get back to the way he played a couple of seasons ago.

Close one.